Touhou Power Levels

[Anonymous No.]

I've been out of the Touhou loop for a while but just heard that Yukari was dethroned from her status as the strongest character by characters like Junko, and even that was many years ago.

What are the current rankings for the most powerful characters in Gensokyo?

[Anonymous No.]

>>35066772
Here you are

[Anonymous No.]

>>35066867
Why is doremy that low, even yukari respect her power as you can see in aocf

[Anonymous No.]

>>35066867
I thought Junko's whole thing was being about being stronger than the Lunarians? Also while Eirin got an indirect buff by association with the Watatsuki sisters, since when was Eiki considered above Yukari? People used to speak of Yukari like a near-omnipotent reality warper, being the one and only Phatasm boss, so how is she the same tier as Yuyuko and below some other older characters?

[Anonymous No.]

>>35066867
Tewi in B+?

[Anonymous No.]

>>35066867
Given her sage status, you'd think Kasen would also be double S

[Anonymous No.]

>>35066867
I guess it isn't necessarily a power level thing but Okina succeeded in intimidating Hecc into backing off and seemed pretty confident about it.

[Anonymous No.]

>>35067191
yeah.

[Anonymous No.]

>>35067199
She could be, but there's not enough information and when there isn't I prefer leaning on the lower bound

[Anonymous No.]

>>35066867
Wrong. Yukari could defeat Goku, unlike Hecc or the Moonies. Eiki could too but only under certain circumstances.

[Anonymous No.]

>>35067563
Yukari couldn't even defeat the Lunarians in the invadion of the moon how could she defeat Goku, who is known to be the absolute god of destruction and who can defeat entire armies with his fist alone. Goku is by far one of the most powerful characters in anime, period. Not a single 2hu can take him on without being turned into dust by his super saiyan form. That's not to say that Goku would kill any of them, though. Goku is generally a nice person with a strong sense of justice. He couldn't lay a hand on Yukari unless she starts the fight first.

[Anonymous No.]

>>35067662
She literally went to the moon to get a bunch of troublesome youkai killed.

[Anonymous No.]

>>35067662
>Goku is by far one of the most powerful characters in anime, period
He's like mid level at best.

[Anonymous No.]

>>35067680
But she lost the war

[Anonymous No.]

Goku died to a heart attack. Checkmate goku shills.

[Anonymous No.]

>>35067717

That's the entire point of the war. Yukari didn't go to the moon to win. She went there explicitly to lose so the youkai learned not to try and expand beyond their means.

[Anonymous No.]

>>35067717
Filtered by Yukari...
Anon...

[Anonymous No.]

Do you guys play the games on Lunatic? I wanted to play every game 1cc and possibly on the hardest difficulty but Lunatic on Embodiment is filtering me so much. I think I could do it on hard, but I don't want to be a shitter. Also, what are the best touhou fighting games? Are they still being played?

[Anonymous No.]

>>35067168
It is silly but from ssib we know yukari is weaker than the lunarians

[Anonymous No.]

>>35067168
Also ZUN has stated before that eiki is stronger than yuyuko yukari and reimu combined

[Anonymous No.]

>>35067740
I thought she started the war so that she could take the Lunarian's powers. It says so on the Wiki.

[Anonymous No.]

>>35067820
She was lying

[Anonymous No.]

>>35067481
I suppose. You also have to consider how much she's holding back.

By the by, should her other forms (Arm-chan and the 100% Kasen) be placed too?

[Anonymous No.]

>>35067861
S.
Kasen capped herself and gave Reimu the one thing required to beat her.

[Anonymous No.]

>>35067880
>S.
S+

[Anonymous No.]

>>35067662
>who is known to be the absolute god of destruction and who can defeat entire armies with his fist alone. Goku is by far one of the most powerful characters in anime, period. Not a single 2hu can take him on without being turned into dust by his super saiyan form.
You're correct, in a proper fight Goku could pulverize any 2hu (except the immortals who can be pulverized all the time and still come back). But all Yukari has to do is gap Goku into the shadow realm and that's it.

[Anonymous No.]

>>35066867
Why is junko so low? Isn't she most powerful last boss? She's so pure she basically immortal and she can purify anything to nothingness not even sagume and eirin can do anything against her. Without The Ultramarine Orb no one can even touch her, she only "lose" because she can't believe lunarians can work with humans (which are considered impures) and peace out.

[Anonymous No.]

>>35066772
Yukari is still the strongest by nature of her ability alone, Hecatiafags are just delusional

[Anonymous No.]

>>35070482
Is zun a hecatiafag for saying she's the strongest?

[Anonymous No.]

>>35070532
either the translation of what he said that I've read is inaccurate or people keep misinterpreting it, because I don't recall it ever flat out saying that Hecatia is the strongest beyond one line about her being "on another level" which really doesn't prove much

[Anonymous No.]

>>35070482
Abilities don’t really matter when the character who can stop time itself still somehow loses to lunarians

[Anonymous No.]

>>35067662
>It's another retard unable to understand Yukari purposely lost the war to teach Youkai to not get too cocky despite it being explicitly stated why she did why she did

[Anonymous No.]

>>35073754
She purposefully lost the war but that doesn't mean she was capable of winning it herself, the best bet was to have yuyuko introduce a concept of death into the lunar capital but she decided to dab on them by stealing their sake instead

[Anonymous No.]

>>35070660
Heck being on another level entirely implies that she is the strongest seen so far.

[Anonymous No.]

>>35071369
>Abilities don’t really matter when the character who can stop time itself still somehow loses to lunarians
Said Lunarian couldn't figure out how to win and had to resort to using console commands just to beat her. Take away the *borrows your divine power* nonsense, it would be a fair fight.

[Anonymous No.]

>>35074227
Sakuya can't even dodge her own attacks

[Anonymous No.]

>>35067662
>Goku
Get the fuck out of here, mejicano!

[Anonymous No.]

>>35066867
How strong are the TH18 newcomers? I read that Momoyo's species is considered among the most fearsome and powerful youkai, consuming dragons who are already top tier.

[Anonymous No.]

>>35074188
that's just how you happen to interpret the statement though, it's hardly canon confirmation

[Anonymous No.]

>>35076176
Powerful but with a major flaw. I mean, c'mon, human saliva? The only bigger flaw I can think of is being weak to oxygen.

[Anonymous No.]

>>35081434
>The only bigger flaw I can think of is being weak to oxygen.
So you admit humanity is flawed. Oxygen is toxic in high concentration.

[Anonymous No.]

>>35066867
Patchouli's powers are unreliable and she automatically loses to physical attacks, so she's more of a B+ rank. Koakuma doesn't even have a name, let alone any strong powers, so she should be C+ at most. Shanghai and Hourai have no powers at all so they should be D rank. Ran is strong and has no major weakness, but her powers aren't anything special, so she's demoted to A rank. Seija's power is strong enough to cause an entire game, so she's A+ rank at least. Immortality also deserves at least A+ rank, so Mokou gets promoted too.

[Anonymous No.]

>>35067191
I saw a photo of this girl looking dejected as a guy was taking pictures of an actual bunny once. Does anyone have it?

[Anonymous No.]

Comparing 2hu powerlevels is retarded.

[Anonymous No.]

>>35082041
True, compare boobu power levels instead.

[Anonymous No.]

>>35082078
Nemuno has the biggest milkers. Her tits are so massive that ZUN bothered to draw them.

[Anonymous No.]

>>35081834
> Patchouli's magic being unreliable.
> How? She spends all her time reading and learning new shit.
> Koakuma is still a demon so she's definitely above fairies and regular yokais. Being nameless or not is irrelevant.
> I agree with the rest.

[Anonymous No.]

>>35082148
You're right. In hindsight, I should've put her beside Eirin.

[Anonymous No.]

>>35082149
Poor wording on my part. Patchouli's health problems sometimes prevent her from using her full power.

[Anonymous No.]

>>35066867
Medicine is pretty strong, she did beat Yuuka.

[Anonymous No.]

>>35082004
Here you go, anon

[Anonymous No.]

>>35082078
Isn't Kasen as busty as Komachi in Azuma's art thou

[Anonymous No.]

Objective 2hu power tier list

[Anonymous No.]

>>35100865
Junko is below lunarians any day

[Anonymous No.]

>>35103824
Lunarians literally can't deal with Junko, her power hard counters them so much that they can't even deal with the fairies she sends, let alone Junko herself.
Junko also killed Houyi, Change's (and her) former husband who shut down 9 suns.

[Anonymous No.]

>>35104180
>Lunarians literally can't deal with Junko
the local lunarian residents yeah but not the emissaries since they have an auto immune system that disregards your pure faggotry
If Junko was above them then she wouldn't need swarms of imbued fairies to do her job

[Anonymous No.]

>>35066772
>dethroned
That implies she was sitting on it, but Eiki and Yuuka were above her long before other characters. Tenshi whooped her, too, and the Lunarians.

Hecatia is indeed the strongest, which is fine. Momoyo is also allegedly completely ridiculous in her strength/fighting prowess.

[Anonymous No.]

>>35066867
I'll never understand why people undersell Yuuka.

She's legitimately powerful. Yukari is *literally* a poseur.

[Anonymous No.]

>>35067199
Being a sage means nothing about power. Not being the top among oni (that is Suika) means she's at least weaker than that

[Anonymous No.]

>>35069629
Power is power, not ability

If you're going by "ability", functionally Flan is completely overpowered as she can destroy anything

[Anonymous No.]

>>35066867
I'd honestly put Reimu in the same rank as Marisa, or just one above it. Her actual "power" isn't all that much

[Anonymous No.]

>>35067662
I think Yuuka would at least have a fair shot before he pulled out something silly. The oni would have fun with him, too

He indeed becomes broken eventually no matter what, and most 2hus can't destroy like, planets

[Anonymous No.]

>>35067820
>>35067740
>>35067717
>>35067860
Indeed, she was lying. Another note: she lies a lot. A further note: she made Akyuu lie about her in her PMiSS profile. In truth, Yukari is extremely powerful, but NOT supreme

[Anonymous No.]

>>35070482
This is a statement of ignorance. While on paper it sounds like Yukari can do anything, she herself says and shows that she cannot. Her powers are limited, and she has been thwarted or stumped several times

[Anonymous No.]

>>35100865
>"Sage" tier
When will you people realize that "sage" is a distinction of wisdom, not power?

While the three sages we know are powerful, it's not because they're powerful, it's because they have exceptional abilities and smarts. They are *powerful* because one is a god with near infinite facets empowering her with faith, one is one of the oldest youkai in existence, and one is from one of the strongest races in existence (oni)

[Anonymous No.]

>>35104462
Rather, she wouldn't need a special power at all. The whole point of the LoLK scheme is to not fight the Lunarians, BECAUSE she cannot beat them

Hecatia seems to just be helping out. Maybe even she would have trouble facing several of them at once, or even just Sagume. Who knows? Sagume's pretty bullshit

[Anonymous No.]

Power levels in tuhou are stupid, no real point in discussing them when most characters got retarded reality-bending abilities. Also doesn't Reimu got literally muso tensei which would allow her to shit all over everyone if there weren't spell card rules?

[Anonymous No.]

>>35104730
Woah Reimu can phase shift out of reality... meanwhile most 2hus can wait an eternity for her to come out and plummet her ass
that or she starves to death on the other side

[Anonymous No.]

>>35104730
they're retarded yes but it's still a fun autistic discussion that everyone has since they were young kids wondering if robocop could beat the predator

[Neil Armstrong No.]

>>35103824
>>35104462
>>35104709
Moonie-lovers? ON MY /JP/???

[Anonymous No.]

>>35104730
ZUN could come out and say which Touhou character is the strongest at any time but he's being discreet about it because. Maybe he wants his fans to figure it out for themselves or something?

I'd say it's futile to determine which 2hu character is the most powerful mostly because we never see most of them use their full power at any point during the games; just spell card fights and danmaku. If he wanted to say who was stronger than who, he would have mentioned it in the manga.

[Anonymous No.]

>>35105975
>ZUN could come out and say which Touhou character is the strongest at any time
And... he has. It's Hecatia.

[Anonymous No.]

>>35080980
Yes it is, you're likely just obsessed with the idea of Yukari being the strongest even though she has been humbled and beaten several times and lies about her capabilities

[Anonymous No.]

>>35104709
Fuck off lunarian resident, imagine got scared of fairies scrubs. sagume can't do anything againt junko that's why she relies on reimu and friends.

why would she want to fight lunarians anyway? the only one she wants to kill is chang'e.

[Anonymous No.]

can we have a thiccness chart

[Anonymous No.]

>>35104586
When did she lose to Tenshi ?

[Anonymous No.]

>>35104462
Junko can't deal with the moonies because for the longest time she's one person vs an entire civilization of superpowered retards.
She's successfully attacked the Lunar Capital multiple times before LoLK and the moonies couldn't do shit but just drive her back.

[Anonymous No.]

>>35107803
the only thing Junko attacked multiple times is lunarian cock with her rear

[Anonymous No.]

>>35107323
Shit, my bad, she didn't. I thought in the final scenario she was one of the enemies Tenshi beat down

That being said given the trend that above > below it's probable that celestials are OP compared to any youkai. In the first place, their flesh is poison to youkai. Bad sign

[Anonymous No.]

>>35106916
I'm talking about if there wasn't a cheat enabled that avoided a direct confrontation

As for this
>why would she want to fight lunarians anyway? the only one she wants to kill is chang'e.
Junko is a being of grudge. In the first place, her beef is NOT with Chang'e, it's with Houyi. She killed Houyi already, and was not satisfied by that, so she's trying to kill Chang'e. And, to do that, she's talking down literally all Lunarians. The implication, from her herself, is that she will never stop her revenge quest. Anyone tangentially related is an enemy

[Anonymous No.]

>>35107045
Already exists

[Anonymous No.]

>>35111146
how can a neet princess be heavier than me...

[Anonymous No.]

>>35112391
You're skinny and she's a fatass

[Anonymous No.]

>>35106229
Well there you have it then

[Anonymous No.]

>>35106229
The literal translation is "hecatia is in another level"

What this means? Exactly, nothing because we can measure any "level"

There's only one character we can measure it's powers and say she's the strongest: shinki, but she's not in the canon anymore

[Anonymous No.]

>goku
powerlevelfags please just shut the fuck up about goku
goku is all HURR PUNCH HURR PUNCH HARDER HURR ANOTHER LASER CLASH
he literally only continues to live because they forced him to continue drawing goku

if you want an interesting matchup against ability users like touhou characters, go with stands from jojo instead of the embodiment of cash cow

[Anonymous No.]

Yukari's power level is weird AF, but if there's one thing sure about it is that she's making everyone believe she's way weaker than she is. Like how there's a printwork where she says that she can't gap herself to the Moriya Shrine because there's Kanako and Suwako who mess up the boundaries, but then later in the same printwork she forces her way to the highter point of the heavens, a place where's theres no boundaries, and an uncountable number of gods far above Kanako and Suwako. She's definitively bullshiting everyone, and yet no one seems to notice that her few feats far surpass any statements about her power, with said statements herself saying that she has a limit. The only thin you can be sure of about Yukari's power level is that Hecatia is stronger than her, and funnily enough, one of the things Hecatia is a goddess of is boundaries.

[Anonymous No.]

>>35115816
>she forces her way to the highter point of the heavens, a place where's theres no boundaries, and an uncountable number of gods far above Kanako and Suwako

Heaven is full of celestials, not gods. Gods reside on earth. That also doesn't exactly say anything one way or the other about power

>>35114856
Anon don't lie, this is what he said:
幻想郷とか月の都とかいうレベルを完全に超えている。

You can't interpret that as if it's vague. He said she's beyond the level of anyone in Gensokyo or the Lunar Capital. This was also specifically in the context of her not being beatable.

[Anonymous No.]

>>35117889
Additionally for what it's worth Hecatia corroborates this by explaining that she only has her high position in hell because nobody could beat her and she was given the position in hopes that she wouldn't rebel or anything. Eiki, one off the previously established "strongest", serves under her as a result.

[Anonymous No.]

>>35118871
Shit, forgot to say: that's in AFiEU

[Anonymous No.]

>>35082078
>>35111146
I fucking love this board

[Anonymous No.]

>>35104592
I’d say she’s in a pretty good place, considering Flandre can destroy anything with a few muscle movements

[Anonymous No.]

>>35111146
2hus in bottom tiers are lighter than some dumbbells…

[Anonymous No.]

>>35066867
Why is Rinnosuke that high? Has he ever actually done anything besides run his shop? Or does he get a rank boost due to memes?

[Anonymous No.]

>>35129099
He has a fucking cock

[Anonymous No.]

>>35129099
fixed
Everyone in that tier in below is either a normal human, weak, or just flat out useless in addition to an equally useless ability.

[Anonymous No.]

>>35129111
unzan doesn't and he's higher on the list.

[Anonymous No.]

>>35104692
I'm pretty sure most people know what a sage means, but a sage in real life and sage of Gensokyo are completely different things.
It's just an indicator of the power of the Gensokyo sages we know, they're defined as their group not as their group's individual names.

[Anonymous No.]

>>35129985
>but a sage in real life and sage of Gensokyo are completely different things.
They literally are not. There's nothing that says this anywhere at all. Not helped is that literally every one of them is hyper intelligent, old, and wise

[Anonymous No.]

Honesty time.
Yukari is the top of the totem pole.
Zun is a drunken idiot who can't write a consistent power tier cast of characters.

In her monologue during A Beautiful Flower Blooming Violet Every Sixty Years, she explains that this power allows her to control or remove the boundaries between any and all things, like Gensokyo and the Outside World, the worlds of the living and the dead, humans and youkai and even the day and the night.

Zun wrote a broke dick conceptualized power that just results in the capacity for omnipotence and the stripping of omnipotence from others. Any subsequent writing he did after that just shows how full of shit he is... wtf could the lunarians do against an entity that could 0 their capacity for violence given there's a gap between nill and w.e they had... or a gap between them being able to move or not... or even just a gap between their power levels. The best possible chance anyone could ever hope for against yukari is to catch her while she's sleeping at which point - pic related.

[Anonymous No.]

>>35136297
My theory is that abilities and “raw power” are sort of separated, like in shinza banshou/dies irae. As in, if a character has enough raw power they become something of a densely packed universe unto themselves and can ignore and resist other characters’ abilities just by force of will, unless said character they’re dealing with is also of equal or higher raw power. For characters like hecatia or yuuka, I doubt petty tricks will work on them, if they did even shitters like yachie could theoretically kick their shit in with abilities
Also another thing: characters in touhou are known to vastly exaggerate the power of their abilities. Remilia is another prime example. The fact of the matter is if yukari’s abilities were truly limitless she would always get her way no matter what, and while she’s been close to doing so it’s not always the case. There are likely limits to her power that she keeps concealed on purpose

[Anonymous No.]

>>35129232
Literal god in SS, if pc-98 is canon shinki is above everyone else, she created the makai and the weakest youkai in makai is stronger than hell fairies who scared moonies

[Anonymous No.]

>>35136297
Counterpoint: she's a fucking liar

[Anonymous No.]

>>35145186
by the way expanding on this that's the POINT

Yukari is just about the most "youkai"-like youkai in Touhou, insofar as she is not truly knowable, is extremely mysterious, is scary, and doesn't let you ever figure her out. This is why she goes to Akyuu to manipulate her article, why she lies, and why whenever she is confronted with something she can't beat she a) hides away, b) literally surrenders, or c) cheats, if she can figure out how to cheat (AoCF)

[Anonymous No.]

>>35136297
>>35139370
Maybe Yukari can theoretically control any boundary, but it takes some kind of power to do so, like mana or qi or somethign. So she could theoretically control a boundary between lunarians being able to move or not, but it would be very exhausting so it would work only for a short time and would leave her vulnerable.

So she doesn't use the full extent of her power because it would drain her and she would be passing out all the time.

[Anonymous No.]

>>35145299
From the scenarios we have we know a few of the limits

First and foremost is herself. If she can't "figure it out", she can't control it. She does not have an innate understanding of boundaries, and instead needs to identify and then manipulate them.

Second she plain and simple cannot *just* manipulate it, even if she knows it's there. Her way to the Lunar Capital is, to put it lightly, a fucking disaster. She has to use a reflection at a specific time period to open a hole that will not stay open long and connects to the middle of a fucking ocean. Literal best she could do

And my favorite one? She needed several other people in order to create the Great Hakurei Barrier: her masterpiece which is not named after her, but after a bloodline which can also manipulate boundaries.

[Anonymous No.]

>>35145407
>cannot *just* manipulate it
cannot NECESSARILY. Basically some places "refuse her" or are otherwise impossible to fuck with. Supposedly she says she can't directly gap to Moriya Shrine, either, but I dunno about that

[Anonymous No.]

>>35145407
The second and the third ones sound like power/mana limitations. Maybe opening a gap to the moon without using this metod would be too draining. The same thing with Hakurei Barrier. Maybe she needed other sages to borrow their powers?

[Anonymous No.]

>>35134586
No you idiot, it's the NAME of a group or a title. It's similar to groups like the Akatsuki or the Shichibukai or a title like Hokage. You don't see people complaining "WTF they're called Kages its not an indicator of strength but stealth idiots!". It's a title/group meant to be an identifier, not a dictionary term.
When you refer to sages in real life, you think of random wise people in history. When you think of sages in Gensokyo, you think of the four sages.

[Anonymous No.]

>>35146218
Yeah. Wise people.

You're missing the point somehow. I'm saying that that title, and that "group", mean nothing inherently, and any assumed meaning is just from people's assumptions despite the definition of the word. When each of them are marked by their abilities to govern, control, advise, and manipulate--NOT by their power, and you zero in on power as if THAT is the measure that defines them, I'll allow you to redirect the word "idiot" to yourself.

They're not even of equal levels of power even if you do want to assume that you can only be a sage if you're powerful--which, again, doesn't make any sense. Kasen for instance, by context and reason, most likely is a sage because she was able to commune with the Dragon God, a necessary element of creating the barrier. But, how much "power" is indicated by the ability to talk with animals?

This is dumb.

[Anonymous No.]

>>35067662
she negates his boundaries and therefore erases him

[Anonymous No.]

>>35146556
And you're missing the point even harder? You do realize that the four sages can both be an indicator of strength AND wisdom, and it's not exclusive? Again, they're very similar to shitters like the Kages in Naruto. Kages are supposed to be good enough to lead their entire village, but also be strong enough to protect it.
This is a powerlevel thread, and you're talking about wisdom? Who the fuck is missing the point here?
Also are you really arguing about how Touhou main powers somehow don't add up to their strength when its a large part of Touhou characters? And even funnier is the fact that power of talking to animals is her hermit power she learned, not her oni power.

[Anonymous No.]

>>35067168
It's worth noting that Junko needed the fairies to wage war on the moon because of their impurity: a hard counter to the Lunarians so strong that a bunch of astronauts accidentally whooped them.
Yukari is strong but mostly gets wanked to the "le omnipotent" thing, and Eiki should honestly be higher, but is also a hard counter to Yukari since she nullifies boundary manipulation.

[Anonymous No.]

I'm surprised people put in really obscure PC-98 characters we don't know practically anything about.

[Anonymous No.]

>>35148429
>You do realize that the four sages can both be an indicator of strength AND wisdom, and it's not exclusive?
It is exclusive. Look up what the word means in English and Japanese.

[Anonymous No.]

>>35148429
Wait
>she learned
EXACTLY HOLY FUCKING SHIT

From what we've seen and been told, Okina is one of the actual strongest (she threatened Hecatia, and ZUN said as much), Yukari is in fact weaker than other characters and bows to them hence you can't put those two on the same level, and then after that you have Kasen, who is NOT the ex-leader of the oni, indicating she is not the most powerful among the group of races that is noted by its power. Physically, we even know Yuugi is the one who's "strong". You can probably safely assume Suika, who was the top dog, was and still is the most powerful among them.

In other words:
Okina > Yukari > Kasen

Yet you group them TOGETHER in the same "sage" tier, because sage, a term that has NOTHING to do with power, means power to you, even though it's unequal power, and nothing has ever EVER stated that you need power to be a sage... Do you get me? It'd be one thing to have a "Big Four of the Mountain" tier. Oni rank themselves by strength, and Suika has indicated that she and Yuugi are more or less at least around the same tier. Not the same with sages, because as it turns out it's not a tier of power, it's an indicator of social status

[Anonymous No.]

so is yuuka litteraly powerful due to gains from being around for so long
that's pretty interesting and kinda unique for this series where even a super mundane ability can fuck someone's day up if used right

[Anonymous No.]

>>35067168
>the one and only Phatasm boss
Really meaningless, btw. Danmaku matches are explicitly about leveling the playing field, so your stage placement doesn't have anything to do with how strong or weak you are.

[Anonymous No.]

>>35158273
I wouldn’t say it’s age alone, even her younger self in pc98 is still known as one of the strongest youkai within the vicinity of the hakurei shrine

[Anonymous No.]

>>35158263
Are you retarded? Do you want each sage to be its own indicator of its own? Do you want each character to be an indicator of her own and just miss the point of a tier list altogether?
All 3 sages in canon are one of the very few people that beat Reimu. How the flying fuck does this not make sense to you? They're close enough in power to be grouped in power in a single tier. Fucking obviously they're not the same in power, none of the characters are.
And no, ZUN doesn't say shit about Hecatia being threated by Okina. In VFiS Okina threatens Hecatia but there's no single indication that Hecatia felt threatened in any way whatsoever, nor do they even meet up in person. This is nowhere near enough to say Okina is a whole nother level of her own.
Touhou characters are prideful enough to put themselves on a pedestal, who knew?
Here, let me use a hypothetical scenario to put this in your skull.
In /sci/, some guy makes a "Scientist strength thread". Lets say there's 3 tiers, the DeGrasse tier, the Dawkins tier, and the Hawking tier. You, meanwhile, whine why Hawking is a tier, because Hawking is most known for his intellect, not his strength.
You see the disconnect here lad? Hawking is most known for his intellect, but it sure doesn't fucking stop anyone to use him as an indicator of strength.
AND YOU STILL ARGUE "B-BUT A SAGE MEANS WISDOM" ITS NOT ABOUT THE DICTIONARY TERM YOU ABSOLUTE FUCKING MORON THEY'RE A GROUP LIKE HOW THE FOUR KAGES ARENT RANKED BY THEIR STEALTH LEVEL OR THE SEVEN DEADLY SINS ARENT RANKED BY HOW SINFUL THEY ARE AAAA
Get this in your skull. Ranking sages is not exclusively about wisdom because it has "sage" in the name or that's what they're most known for.

[Anonymous No.]

>>35160788
>They're close enough in power to be grouped in power in a single tier.
They aren't. One of them beat her in danmaku, Yukari's never beaten her to my knowledge, and Kasen did indeed have her on the ropes (and lost, but by convenience)

You aren't posting any evidence about power still and yet you're raging so I guess we're done here. ZUN didn't say anything about her being threatened, and looking back I'll say I did misremember him making any comments on her power at all, but I still feel like it stands to reason that she's not a slouch.

They're called sages and your scientist thing doesn't make any fucking sense? Are you giving me more reasons to call you stupid? Scientists... are indeed not strong. What you're actually suggesting is saying this:

Human powerlevels
"President tier" - strong people who are presidents. These are stronger than, say, wrestlers. It doesn't matter of Teddie Roosevelt was stronger than Donald Trump or vice versa, they're both presidents. You dumb motherfucker, you're using titles not relevant to strength to group together people who are unequal in levels of strength

At any rate, seriously, you're not making any sense as to why unequal levels of power would be equal within a group of people who are not in that group because they are powerful, but because of their abilities and intellect. You never explained how, you continue to not. Will you reply to me again ignoring this question? Probably. And in that case, who cares? If you're not going to answer me, then you look the fool. Alrighty then. End of story.

[Anonymous No.]

>>35160959
How the fuck do you comparatively quantify Touhou powerlevels if not for Danmaku? Even fights like the Kasen vs Reimu fight in the end of WaHH is danmaku.
Talking conceptually doesn't help shit either, and backstories are often so vague that you can only gleam very little from them.

I literally already did? Tell me, what do the four sages do in Gensokyo currently?
>>35148429
>Kages are supposed to be good enough to lead their entire village, but also be strong enough to protect it.
Okina acted using power to intimidate literally every faggot that's trying to take over the human village, Kasen took a very active role in solving ULiL, and I don't even need to talk about Yukari's resume. Tell me, was wisdom the only factor on the success of their actions?

Your president analogy makes sense if not for the fact that the four sages are, again, not only known for their wisdom? Calling a group "sages" doesn't automatically exclude other factors to be part of the group outside of wisdom. It's like how to join certain exclusive groups in real life.
All three of them are shown to be exceptionally powerful, far beyond most youkai in Gensokyo. Can you argue it's just a coincidence? Sure. Maybe the last sage would be some shitter fairy. Does it change the fact all the sages we know are powerful? It sure fucking doesn't.

[Anonymous No.]

>>35161158
I'm not gonna bother with this after this post, but its absurd how many times I have to compare the Gensokyo Sages to motherfucking Nardo Kages, of all things.
Let's get on back on track and not waste time on who or what is stronger when the original argument was just about the legitimacy of using the four sages as an anchor for the tier list. Moving goalposts is common in boards but I'd rather just get this stupid argument over with.
What's a common trope in fiction, especially in fictional groups?
The leaders are also the most powerful.
You see it in practically every single fictional work with structures like this, doesn't matter where it's from. The headmaster in Harry Potter, the Kages in Naruto, the Chairman in HxH, and more. Doesn't matter if their title denotes more of a position of influence, wisdom, or strength; it's a common trend seen everywhere.
Considering that, even if you REMOVE all other context, is it so absurd that the four sages, widely considered to watch over Gensokyo and have this trope in check so far?
Just keep this in mind before complaining about the most banal things.

[Anonymous No.]

>>35161330
Your argument is "what about Harry Potter" in a discussion about Touhou, a series which in itself tends to eschew tropes. For instance: the old and supremely powerful youkai (Yukari)? Turns out she's a coward who lies about her capabilities. Yet we want to use common tropes to explain how wisemen are supposed to be strong. In the first place, they're not even leaders, they're influential and respected people. Ever since the oni left, a key aspect of the setting has been a LACK of leaders who rule the whole place. And the sages' grand act? It was building a complex wall. As I thought, you've neglected you factor in how nothing about the title, their feats, or their roles implies "power". Correlation does not equal causation, and their not equal anyway so why bring it up when discussing power?

Again, this is like
"Name the strongest humans."
"Einstein was really smart!"
" Woodrow Wilson once ruled America, you know"
Scientist tier.
President tier.
Oh, how about safe tier? Confucius was sage tier
Wait what were we talking about

[Anonymous No.]

>>35161553
Additionally there's actually a place where power rules, and it's not Gensokyo, it's hell. However, the rulers of the current hell are still manipulative, and give way to stronger people because of strict meritocracy. Hecatia says she prefers Gensokyo for not being ruled by power

[Anonymous No.]

>>35161598
Additionally additionally
Harry Potter: being smart means knowing more powerful spells
Naruto: being a kage explicitly manga being accomplished in battle
HxH: Many hunters are fighters
Touhou: the sages are manipulative ads their acts as sages relate to what they can say and what they can do. They rule nothing

[Anonymous No.]

>>35066867
Okina is objectively the weakest of the sages and nowhere near the strength of Reimu, let alone Yukari. She's got less than a hundred worshipers remaining.

[Anonymous No.]

the most for sure thing we know about sage abilities is that they can go to and fro from gensokyo to the outside whenever they want