/jp/ - Otaku Culture

[Anonymous No.]

>Try to learn Japanese
>Try Duolinguo
>Genuinely awful, I feel like I am not making any progress at all, it's slow, dull and patronizing at best.
>Try a course on youtube
>It's quite bad... like, i don't know how I know, but trying his logic on music lyrics I have fails terribly.
>Still not much progress... Well, I at least know both my kanas and some basic kanjis

>Finally find a good grammar course.
>But it's hard to follow, since the teacher can go on tangents and gives few examples for each grammar points.
>"Well, at least I know how the particles work now"
>Try to learn vocabulary
>It feels as if even 4 billion words wouldn't be enough to understand everything
>Every time I study actual content, I struggle at the most basic of sentences, let's not even talk about the more complicated ones...
>Kanji feel impossible, vocabulary too, even with radicals, and all the tricks in the bag.

I feel like there's something wrong with me. I am such a faggot to struggle against something so trivial as vocabulary ?

[Anonymous No.]

>>42990660
the bottom line is it isn't worth your time to bother actually, there are far better ways to enjoy life spending your time

[Anonymous No.]

who are you quoting?

[Anonymous No.]

>>42990780
Myself at that time ?

>>42990766
I just want to learn it in order to enjoy more stuff in life.

[Anonymous No.]

>>42990660
Anon I have a good approach. We could even help each other learn, like study buddies if you wanted. My only problem is I think >>42990766 has a point. Most major media has been translated and Im struggling to think of more reasons to use Japanese asides from like understanding some of my youtube subs better. Getting to like N3 probably isn't too much of a waste for me I guess.

[Anonymous No.]

>>42990660
How long have you been at it, a few months, maybe half a year? It's been years for me and I'm still dekinai, get on my level.

[Anonymous No.]

Diligence is key. Or you can just wait for AI to solve your problems

[Anonymous No.]

>>42990766
NTA but I want to learn it because I want to go there before/when I kill myself.

[Anonymous No.]

>>42990660
get out

[Anonymous No.]

>>42991167
not to mention AI is progressing at an increasing rate and before you even get half horrible at Japanese there will be some kind of automated translators available making it even more pointless to waste your time learning it, a way better form of AI than chat gpt will be in an interactive audio form on your phone in not too long

[Anonymous No.]

>>42990766
false

[Anonymous No.]

>>42991717
do monolinguals think learning a language means you translate it to your native language? see this shit way too often

[Anonymous No.]

>>42991717
its not pointless at all. language learning is one of the best ways to prevent mental decline. also, what kind of person spends a chunk of his time on japanese media and doesn't even know japanese.

[Anonymous No.]

>>42991717
beauty of learning a language is to understand exactly things like play on words, or the deep meaning of texts that gets lost in translations. makes consuming japanese media all the more enjoyable.

besides you're probably american you wouldn't get it

[Anonymous No.]

>>42991717
I think that AI being able to perfectly convey the full depth of a text with all minutiae is still quite a while away. Even then, a translator would need constant little notes for all the subtle differences in meanings and intended subtexts and cultural differences and such.
To truly learn and understand a language will never lose its meaning for the individual, much as no amount of AI images will make the act of drawing lose its meaning on its own.

[Anonymous No.]

>>42991778
This, I feel bad for all the dekinais that are sitting around waiting for some miracle AI development for japanese translation. Having a translation tool is never going to compare to just knowing the language when it comes to both accuracy and general ease of experiencing whatever you're looking at.

[Anonymous No.]

>>42991717
More interested in automatic subtitles which is good voice recognition + accurate translation. Amusingly you can already do this while barely knowing any Japanese. Just write what you hear in romanji in google translate, Japanese is probably one of the clearest spoken languages. Generative AI has already improved translation. The problem is if you wanted to move there or make friends.

[Anonymous No.]

>>42991778
>>42991883
Im bilingual so I get it. But you got into Japanese media through english translations. They were good enough weren't they? This isn't exactly classical literature. Knowing the nuances of a very specific pun does not warrant studying Japanese for a year or even years and to learn their abysmal writing system which is extremely time wasting to learn if you aren't fully immersed in it and living there. Furthermore, who knows, maybe you'll grow out of anime?

[Anonymous No.]

>>42991807
>language learning is one of the best ways to prevent mental decline
It actually seems like most people who know multiple languages become more forgetful and struggle more and more to form basic sentences or find the right words while speaking. Many people in my country speak English as a second language and often they just use English words (that aren't loan words) throughout their sentences because they can't remember the right word from their native language.

[Anonymous No.]

>>42991955
That's only really highlighting why it's hard to learn and then *retain* languages without constant immersion. People forget that even after you've put all this effort into Japanese you will need to maintain it for the rest of your life. Anyways I think reasons to learn a language asides from the language itself are dumb. If you really want to prevent mental decline then become a chess grandmaster lol.

[Anonymous No.]

>>42991955
thats not mental decline though.

[Anonymous No.]

>>42991869
the thing is, 99.99999% of the people that say they are learning Japanese won't get to that level either, or even anywhere close to the level of an AI or even simpler translator, most are completely fooling themselves and in 10 years will still be horrible at it

[Anonymous No.]

>>42990660
Just keep doing it. Eventually it's going to be full.

[Anonymous No.]

>>42991253
This
For me it took about 3 years through self-study to get to the point that reading had an intuitive flow to it.

[Anonymous No.]

So, anyone got good tips for a good way to set up mined card formats for Anki + Yomichan?

I'm in the basic vocabulary/Kanji phase right now, but I know I'll never really get anywhere if I don't start at least trying to actually read shit, so I'm trying to lay groundwork to do that productively

[Anonymous No.]

You're too dumb to learn another language move on with your life

[Anonymous No.]

yo how did they teach the horse to do this

[Anonymous No.]

>>42995965
no, in this picture he has been learning japanese for 10 years and about to commit sudoku, very sad actually national news in Brazil dont make fun of him

[Anonymous No.]

>>42995910
After trying and failing for many times with automated methods for card mining, I just set up my own. Text in clipboard from textractor, highlight the part in question, paste in Back field and create furigana with plugin, then write the english "translation" that fits in the context, not any possible one. Screenshot to clipboard with IrfanView and paste in picture field.
Takes 15-20 seconds per card so it's not too disruptive.

[Anonymous No.]

>>42996006
Didn't know about IrfanView. That already helps a lot. Thanks!

[Anonymous No.]

>>42990660
duolingo fun game until make 3 mistakes then its reeeeeeeee

[Anonymous No.]

better off learning Chinese, way less competition for the girls and they are way more easily impressed by foreigners that can speak any of their language

[Anonymous No.]

>>43002458
It sounds so horrid though and you'd still have to learn a lot of kanji. I think they also use more kanji than the Japanese, if I am not mistaken?

[Anonymous No.]

>>43003396
Chinese kanji is easier though, because it is always the same reading and you don't have to worry about all the stupid particles and hiragana that can have dozens of meanings

[Anonymous No.]

>>43002458
do not learn mandarin

[Anonymous No.]

>>42991924
>Furthermore, who knows, maybe you'll grow out of anime?
Grow into what? A miserable prick that damns others for trying to better themselves?

[Anonymous No.]

>>43003491
+100 social credit score

[Anonymous No.]

>>42990660
have you tried getting a private teacher

[Anonymous No.]

>>42990660
the best learning method is the one you find the most fun (unless it's something obviously bad). trust me

[Anonymous No.]

>>42990660
Give Remembering the Kanji a shot. By using what is essentially unused RAM in your brain (your 'imaginative memory') to associate the english readings of the Kanji you give yourself a fighting chance to remember the Chinese and Japanese readings as well.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43006304
thisthisthisthisthisthisthisthis

[Anonymous No.]

>>43004172
>learning the japanese language so you can consume more porn and anime (porn)
>bettering yourself
lmao
Im being constructive here. We create this ideal out of learning Japanese which simply isn't true. I think you'd be disappointed and waste your time. Like it's better than doing nothing if you were just going to do nothing but that's a low bar. I also bet you're not comprehending how much commitment learning jp would take. If you're going to do it, have some solid reasons or you'll become another dekinai.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43002458
It's generally between JP/CN for Asian languages. Korean is culturally irrelevant. The single valid argument to go ahead and learn Chinese is if you wanted to actually move to asia and look for a homegrown asian gf, in which case then Taiwan would be an easier time (I think China itself is a bad idea to visit nowadays because of politics).
>>43003491
Chinese pronunciation is hard whereas Japanese is easy. It's a harder language.

[Anonymous No.]

How much time are you spending? Considering that you use the internet I would guess not much. You want to wake up, study, eat, study, go to sleep, repeat. I'm talking at least 8 hours a day of study. Once you get past the first 2 it's 100x easier and you are now studying easily at a 5x speed you will start noticing progress. Give 0 time to other shit unless it's paying bills, taking out the garbage, chores etc.
Drink lots of water.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43008043
well said

[Anonymous No.]

>>42991924
>They were good enough weren't they?
They weren't after I found out how much of it was conpletely made up and how much was lost in translation.

[Anonymous No.]

>>42990660
It's all hours of input. Bombard yourself with anki for months then graduate to zillions of hours of baby cartoons and pre-school books and then do something 1% harder than that and so on and so forth.

[Anonymous No.]

>>42990766
Bro, we are about to be replaced by AI and be unemployed forever. What are we supposed to do with that time that's so much better than learning Japanese?

[Anonymous No.]

>>43008043
>I think you'd be disappointed and waste your time. Like it's better than doing nothing if you were just going to do nothing but that's a low bar.
it's not a low bar though if the point of comparison are real people and not some ideal. doing 2 hours of real mental effort daily for years and achieving real results that look like magic to the outside world makes a world of difference compared to doing nothing. and it affects your mind and your motivation in a way that makes it easier to start achieving even more.
but yeah, if you measure yourself against an ideal instead, then you might as well keep doing nothing, because what's knowing a language going to change? to me that sounds like cope for people who gave up on everything.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43003491
>you don't have to worry about all the stupid particles and hiragana that can have dozens of meanings
That was never really the issue with learning Japanese for me. It's just the insane amount of kanji. If I wanted to learn an Asian language other than Japanese (I don't), I'd learn Korean since they at least have a normal writing system.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43011889
It's not just the amount, though.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43011505
>(following post contains autism)
It's a question of whether every time-occupying activity you engage in should be beneficial to you in some way or not. Finding something fun is a reason to do something admittedly, even if it literally leads nowhere. Language learning, if you know your way around, can give you the same dopamine hits as playing a video game the same way if you've ever studied math or played an instrument. It activates your brain and gives you energy which will transfer to everything. I think if treating learning Japanese like a leisure activity and keeping it in that time frame where it doesn't interfere with constructive aspects of your life at all, where it gives you pleasure and refreshes you, if these are satisfied then fine. Some people can't do this.

And that still does not address whether it is personally worthwhile for you to do in the long run. Like why learn Japanese? Honestly. You should address this point because most people won't get very far unless you have reasoning (youre studying 1-2 hours a day for a year). You could've dedicated yourself to an activity that'll give you something more. So I suppose it's not a question of what's to lose but what's to gain, which are similar depending on your view. You could study it for no reason while it gives you pleasure and not really care how far you get. It's just you might reach a point like me where you start thinking like this. Damn, I finally managed to articulate my own grievances here. Also in your case you're saying it's not possible for supposed NEET to do anything more productive than learning Japanese which is defeatist. Usually they're just deluded about it to begin with.

>achieving real results that look like magic to the outside world
Another problem language learners have to face is the egotism of it all. The nature of learning a language is to know something no one around you can do and is very easily demonstrable but loads of people have done this, it doesn't require much intelligence just motivation and time. Immigrants do it regularly. Some people even speak 10+ languages at novel-reading level, polyglots like Steven Kaufmann.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43012036
That's why you're better off learning the readings for words rather than individual kanji, I think. And I don't think you really need to know nanori, unless you actually want to live in Japan.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43012176
>Immigrants do it regularly.
This is the cringe part of when a western person learns a beginner to low intermediate level of a language and then uses it on an immigrant that speaks English with near perfect fluency, and the immigrant praises the English speaker as if they have achieved something nearly impossible.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43012358
The immigrant is forced to speak the language he's learning on a daily basis. That's not really comparable to learning a language from abroad.

And most immigrants never really become fluent or it may take decades for them to reach that point. People just don't call them out because they'd feel like that's rude and in turn, the immigrant never realizes that his skills are subpar. We should also remember that there are many people out there who have never even truly mastered their own native language. Some low-IQ countryside Afghan refugee isn't going to be able to give classes on Pashtun grammar or have a very sophisticated vocabulary because he himself most likely never had to master those things to get through his daily life.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43012176
>And that still does not address whether it is personally worthwhile for you to do in the long run.
I get all that, but my point is that on average the alternative will be doing nothing with that time, so on average it will be worthwhile. because people who already have their schedule filled with worthwhile stuff either won't be looking into learning Japanese or they'll have very solid reasons for it that make this conversation not applicable to them.
>Also in your case you're saying it's not possible for supposed NEET to do anything more productive than learning Japanese which is defeatist.
it's always possible to do something more productive, so from that standpoint you might as well do nothing. I think this is way more defeatist. even ultimately meaningless achievements like in acquiring a language could cause a snowball effect and make someone do more worthwhile stuff. this is much more likely than it happening out of the blue when they choose to keep doing nothing instead, reasoning that hypothetically learning a language is not the perfect use of their time, so why bother.

[Anonymous No.]

Do whatever it fucking takes to get to Japan if you really want to learn. Immersion makes the process 400% easier. Sell all your shit. Get a tourist visa and find a fucking way.

You will never become fluent otherwise.

[Anonymous No.]

I met 2 Chinese girls yesterday that were as hot or hotter than most Japanese models and idols. Granted, they don't sound as cute when they speak in their own language, but looks-wise they were easily as elite as Japanese.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43002458
>way less competition for the girls
>Chinese

[Anonymous No.]

>>43003491
>and you don't have to worry about all the stupid particles and hiragana that can have dozens of meanings
Lmao what? Worrying about auxiliary morphemes and fucking phonetic script? What are you on about?
Well I guess for anglosaxon monolingual brainlets knowing only this decayed analytic shambles of a language even normal regular agglutinative grammar (and Japanese is even on analytical side here, compare, say, Turkish) might prove too difficult.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43012654
Im gonna think some more and I might pick up Japanese again because of this post. I'll keep a daily progress diary again.

[Anonymous No.]

>>42990660
Juan

[Anonymous No.]

>>43012672
>You will never become fluent otherwise
Not true at all. If the Japanese wrote in an adapted romanji, it would become one of the world's easiest languages, seriously. No genders, no cases, grammar is generally simple, very easy to pronounce 90% correctly, etc. It's inefficient to learn from abroad is all. Simply immerse yourself as well as you can to counter it. Consume as much Japanese media as possible and replace English wherever, shitpost on their imageboards, change all your OSs languages to it, if you write study notes or keep a personal diary then write it in Japanese. Since most of the written form you come across will be through a screen you can get some kind of assistance. Their media sphere is so expansive too compared to most countries. One of the reasons 1.4B people speak English is the domination of the American media industry.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43012358
Being polite and admiring someone that's learning your language is "cringe"?
You might want to leave the internet and interact with real people every once in a while, anon.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43013145
stop selling false hope

[Anonymous No.]

>>43008992
I wish I could do this, but I think only people who are pretty alone in life can do this (not saying that as an insult, nothing wrong as long as they enjoy it)

[Anonymous No.]

>>43008992
I cant do this because of work and I have the equivalent of a nursing home patient at my apartment.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43011505
To add to this, language learning is proven to be good for delaying alzheimers which is one of my biggest fears.
>>43012176
What skills are you learnin anon? Or ones you wish you were learning.

[Anonymous No.]

>>42990660
>duolingo awful
bro I'm close to 2 years and I can understand enough for variety shows and flirt with girls on insta

of course is not the best but if you actually try you can do it

[Anonymous No.]

>>42990766
For us wageslaves yeah I agree but some people here have been NEETs for decades and for them it's probably worth their time.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43014290
those NEETs will never be brave enough to go out in public and talk to people anyways, so to learn the language is pointless

[Anonymous No.]

>>43014141
please stop with the dumbass "flirting" on insta

[Anonymous No.]

>>43013963
those people will never really learn it either, I go out every day and hang out with Japanese people and talk with Japanese people, which is the best way to learn, and I still realize it will take many years to even get intermediate good

[Anonymous No.]

>>43024320
Congratulations, you're retarded then. Or making this shit up in a way that showcases you as retarded, so actually still retarded. Many many people successfully learn languages even without immersion, not everyone is as inept as you.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43024533
keep fooling yourself

[Anonymous No.]

I don't like bowing in japan, because everytime i do so, i end up headbutting that person i am bowing to.

[Anonymous No.]

>>42990766
How am I supposed to read my untranslated hentai otherwise?

[Anonymous No.]

>>43002458
>better off learning Chinese
I've got the perfect pic for this.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43032246
Normally I wouldn't give a shit about this type of post, but that anon in particular is so passionate about you NOT learning mandarin. Man is literally beginning on his knees for you to not learn that damn language. It's too convincing. That man has struggled.

[Anonymous No.]

>>42990660
the question is why do you want to learn. if it's for anime it's definitely a waste of time. getting proficient is a long and difficult process and there's so many other things you could do with your time that would be easier to reach an even higher level of proficiency in. unless you have a concrete plan to get into translation work specifically or to live in japan, save yourself the trouble.

i had the privilege of being in a dead end job so i was literally get paid to learn and it's still not worth. it's fun to be able to pick out words here and there but it's literally useless.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43008043
>Im being constructive here
>You should never try anything that seems at all difficult, even when there are no repercussions for failure.
What a weak cunt, I bet you play games on easy mode.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43032972
I'm actually impressed at how much this man wants us to not speak a language, solely because the chinese are shitters.
Fucker could get this peer-reviewed
Too late for me, i actually learned a bit in high school.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43033013
>there's so many other things you could do with your time that would be easier to reach an even higher level of proficiency in
Like what?
If they're so easy, you can do them while learning Japanese desu.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43035451
dude i beat sekiro with my buttplug shut your mouth

[Anonymous No.]

>>43032246
>Fuck the chinese, the russians are better
Damn. That shit's real.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43035586
he is quite correct though

[Anonymous No.]

>>43038158
Can confirm. I was born in Russia and I vehemently hate Russians because like 60% of them are thieves, fraudsters, thugs, substance abusers, liars, and overall intolerable disgusting beings but even those bastards are far easier to do business with than mainland Chinese. If you check stuff diligently and give impression that you won't tolerate any bullshit then you usually can get Russians to do stuff relatively properly without much fraud if the government isn't involved. Mainland Chinese will try to totally screw you even under those conditions.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43033013
If being able to "pick out words here and there" is all you can do, whoever paid you to learn got ripped off.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43039421
Do you have a seggsy accent?

[Anonymous No.]

>>43033013
>there's so many other things you could do with your time that would be
describe what you did throughout the day, no lying

[Anonymous No.]

>>43033013
>unless you have a concrete plan to get into translation work specifically or to live in japan, save yourself the trouble.
Wealth obsession. Die miserable.

[Anonymous No.]

>>42991336
Off yourself faggot

[Anonymous No.]

>>43040449
fuck you, this anon is right, OP does need to gtfo

[Anonymous No.]

>>43040469
Fuck me yourself, faggot. All "too green" retards need to realize their time is up and that the new generation /jp/sies do not mind and/or care about greenposting. Oldfaggots will cope. OP must stay.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43040532
stop being dumb, Japan needs much more gatekeeping

[Anonymous No.]

>>43040532
You talk exactly like a vtuber simp.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43040583
No, I am tired of waiting forever for translations to come. AI will soon replace slow translators and I am happy the gates are falling. No more waiting forever.

>>43040651
I hate vtubers too retard. Vtubers are nothing more than soulless twitch thots who LARP as otakus while simultaneously getting paid by mega normie companies.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43040683
vtubers and the people that support them are cancer

[Anonymous No.]

>>43039463
the job was unrelated. fake email job. i learned instead actually doing my job. i was up to n2 vocab and grammar. i stopped studying about 3 years ago so it's mostly gone

>>43039756
an easier language. programming. art. an instrument. it's not that learnlearning japanese is not mutually exclusive with any of these things, but it is a massive time suck.
>If they're so easy,
it's not that they're so easy, it's that they are EASIER. japanese is very hard for an english speaker to learn. virtually anything else besides like learning arabic would be easier. idiot wants to learn japanese when he can't even read english.


>>43039878
actual retard. it's not about money at all. the language is useless outside of japan. you're not going to find a kawaii japanese community outside of japan. at best you're going to spend all your time on vr chat in your fake anime body talking to other sperg faggots in their fake anime body.

learning japanese is fun, that's why i did it. But at some point to continually improve it becomes a grind, which i didn't find fun. it becomes work, and work takes lots of time that could be better spent on something that's not useless. if you're having fun then it's not time wasted. but op is obviously not having fun. he's never going to make it, should cut his losses

[Anonymous No.]

>>43039463
the job was unrelated. fake email job. i learned instead actually doing my job. i was up to n2 vocab and grammar. i stopped studying about 3 years ago so it's mostly gone

>>43039756
an easier language. programming. art. an instrument. learning japanese is not mutually exclusive with any of these things, but it is a massive time suck.
>If they're so easy,
it's not that they're so easy, it's that they are EASIER. japanese is very hard for an english speaker to learn. virtually anything else besides like learning arabic would be easier. idiot wants to learn japanese when he can't even read english.

>>43039878
actual retard. it's not about money at all. the language is useless outside of japan. you're not going to find a kawaii japanese community outside of japan. at best you're going to spend all your time on vr chat in your fake anime body talking to other sperg faggots in their fake anime body.

learning japanese is fun, that's why i did it. But at some point to continually improve or even just maintain it becomes a grind, which i didn't find fun. it becomes work, and work takes lots of time that could be better spent on something that's not useless. if you're having fun then it's not time wasted. but op is obviously not having fun. he's never going to make it, should cut his losses

[Anonymous No.]

>>42990660
>Try to learn Japanese

[Anonymous No.]

>>43041481
Watching Japanese YouTube, reading short stories etc isn't that much effort, easy way to maintain. So I don't get that complaint. And it's not like the other things you mentioned are that useful unless you just want to make money and if money is the goal there are far better ways than any of those aside maybe programming. So why those skills in particular? What do they do that makes them more valuable?
What skills are you working on now?
You also didn't answer
>>43039756
Properly. Maybe it's you that needs to work on your English, anon?

[Anonymous No.]

>>42990660
>I feel like there's something wrong with me. I am such a faggot to struggle against something so trivial as vocabulary ?
before you start learning japanese, you need to know how to do it. read tatsumoto's guide https://tatsumoto.neocities.org/

[Anonymous No.]

>>43047139
AHAHAHHAHAHA ARE YOU INSANE?‼? thats tatsucuckholds site, thats a mentally ill spammer friend, never take anything said there seriously
>>/jp/?task=search&ghost=&search_text=tatsumoto
https://find.4chan.org/?q=tatsumoto#top
proof
he just began spamming again, hope the mods filter his worthless spam soon‼

[Anonymous No.]

>>43047194
kys analcream.

[Anonymous No.]

Someone recommended some guide to learning Japanese, then >>43047194 went autismo, some guy called him out on spamming everywhere and the respective first and third replies got deleted? Exactly what is going on here?

[Anonymous No.]

>>43047941
that's analcream. he's a mentally ill spammer.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43048320
But why did the replies get deleted?

[Anonymous No.]

>>43048358
analcream has a report-bot to get jannies to delete posts he doesn't like

[Anonymous No.]

>>43048393
Really? Damn. Surely there are better ways of making money if you have such dedication and time, right?

[Anonymous No.]

>>43048393
this is horrible

[Anonymous No.]

>>42990660

[Anonymous No.]

ngmi

[Anonymous No.]

>>42990660
Who are you quoting?

[Anonymous No.]

>>43048320
what a loser, will never support any of his stuff

[Anonymous No.]

>>43041481
>learning japanese is fun, that's why i did it. But at some point to continually improve or even just maintain it becomes a grind
I had the exact opposite problem. The beginning part where you don't understand jack shit was boring. Now I can improve by spending an hour or two per day reading or watching stuff, which is what I would be doing anyway in english. The only "lost" time is the 30 minutes a day I spend on flashcards.
Maybe OP just needs to grind for a bit (6 months) to get to the fun part.

[Anonymous No.]

>>42990660
Hey that's juan

[Anonymous No.]

>>43012672
came to post this as I was thinking about it this morning because Ive spent a long time thinking on learning a language flip flopping between choices because I never make progress with any despite the fact that I know spanish. I realized that the problem is immersion is even far more important than we already believe, because inherently its illogical to learn a language you have no practical use for, it just makes no sense at all right? So you CAN do it but its just an uphill battle, horribly inefficient and cost benefit analysis even taking into account the exercise it gives your brain is just not worth it. I learned spanish just to talk to my family more since most of them dont speak english so I listened and looked up words I didnt know, didnt even need a textbook. You have to do the same with Japanese which is very hard, you dont have to go there but a personal connection like a japanese friend will do wonders for immersion. I went there years ago but for the short time I was in japan I felt like the immersion would help learn insanely fast. The same principles apply for other languages as well too.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43012672
faggot take

[Anonymous No.]

>>43012672
>>43062135
>muh immersion
If you want to learn a language, the only thing you need to do is fucking use it. The motivation to learn it for a daily hobby is one of the strongest ones so studying while consuming media for practice is really effective. The reason school is also effective is that it forces you to generate long-term results (grades) and contains regular practice with a professional providing (hopefully) accurate feedback.
Compared to those "just move to Japan" is a shitty idea; you can still survive without communicating if you isolate yourself in your own bubble (whether alone or with other gaijin). Likewise, a gaijin doesn't need more than "atatamemasuka", "fukuro irimasuka", and "aerosmith" to work as a kombini register and pretend to be part of the society. If you suck at self-studying, huffing salaryman puke fumes on a subway station for the authentic experience isn't gonna help you with that.

tl;dr: "Immersion" is an excuse for people who lack the motivation for studying and using a language on their own.

[Anonymous No.]

ngmi

[Anonymous No.]

>>43070059
faget

[Anonymous No.]

>>43064950
Your post is literally arguing FOR immersion though
>If you want to learn a language, the only thing you need to do is fucking use it. The motivation to learn it for a daily hobby is one of the strongest ones so studying while consuming media for practice is really effective.
Is this not immersion??

[Anonymous No.]

>>42990766
As an English speaker I've always felt a lot of pressure to learn another language, especially with the amount of annoying third world broken English ESLs on this website now who get it easy because English is the lingua franca telling me I'm stupid. My Japanese is terrible but I can sometimes understand it now. Can anyone else relate?

[Anonymous No.]

I have been trying to learn Japanese for probably 3 almost 4 years now.

This has been my progress.
- I tried Duolingo for two weeks and decided it was trash for Japanese and threw it out.
- Went to school for Japanese and dropped out due to pandemic. I did not learn very much in college, it was a complete waste of time. I got my money back since I didn't take out any huge loans.
- After this I took a break for a year. I didn't study for an entire year. I just played Doom Eternal and sometimes watched vtubers, not paying attention to the Japanese.
- Something clicked in my head and I knew that I was really behind on time. So I bought a physical copy of Tae Kim's Grammar guide and a bunch of other books, and just started like. My dad hated me and I didn't have enough money to move so I would just go ride my bike around random places in the neighborhood and spend 3 hours a day or more just grinding through these books. (Didn't use genki just idk how to explain)
- Every time I got on the bus (usually for 2 hours at a time) I would practice RTK kanji flashcards and it took me probably 6 months to understand a little over half the Joyo Kanji.

I still think this was slow, though. Because even though I had a lot of downtime and I can basically understand a lot of Japanese, I'm still nowhere near the ability to hold a real conversation. I think a more organized person would have been able to learn faster. But I think I just hit like a level up or something where I'm just looking at words they are sinking in more easily, my brain is just more used to Kanji that was before.

So I think Japanese learning progress has to be slow on some level, just so your brain can process and really cement in the basics, and then once those basics are in there you can learn more complicated stuff faster. So yeah, the beginnings are slow.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43076129
Right now, I'm just taking Rikai-kun and reading stuff on syosetsu, while continuing to do flashcards. I also watch vtubers and look stuff up every now and then. I think vtubers have been way more instrumental in learning than I can even explain. It's like, in anime they speak super choppy Japanese and stay in character, but vtubers have this really fluid spontaneous way of talking that I think helped me understand the language in a different way, on an intuitive level.

Still though, my major weakpoint is grammar, because, I still do not know all of the n4 grammar, but I do weirdly enough know some stuff that's n2 and beyond. I think it's best to try and approach the language like a sponge, and just throw yourself at it and see what you can memorize. I'm not saying Matt vs. Japan comprehensive input stuff. I mean just grind and deal with the grind, and eventually the grind becomes fun. Like running, it sucks at first but then becomes easy or something you look forward to.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43076129
You would progress faster if you read Tatsumoto's guide to Japanese in the beginning. People should recommend it the first thing.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43076129
>Three hours a day studying
I can't even comprehend this, the most I can manage is thirty minutes. Good for you anon.

[Anonymous No.]

I only started to remember anything for real once I read VNs and wrote down kanji/sentences down. Drawing all the scribbles and guessing the meaning from kanji is actually the most fun I ever had with the language. If you aren't having fun at all learning it, then what's the point anymore?

[Anonymous No.]

>>43076286
The point is the unattainable end result that is being able to understand it

[Anonymous No.]

>>42990766
Learning another language is good mental exercise.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43002458
I'm chinese and I don't even like the chinese

[Anonymous No.]

>>42990766
With that logic, there isn't a "point" doing anything because of AI.
Learning Japanese is much better for your mind than doing soulless activities like jerking off all day and playing the latest video games.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43076173
Thank you. I posted here because I had the epiphany that I did actually learn a lot in a short amount of time, but I'm surprised because I truthfully feel as though I could have done it more efficiently. I have spent entire weeks not studying and just doing other stuff.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43076465
I thought about this, basically Japanese translation, and probably translation in general will never completely die for the following reasons.

- In person translators can act as buffers or mediators.
- There will always be people with a passion for translation and people will support this effort on the downlow
- There are a lot of untranslatable ideas. Loading up an AI with background knowledge on a language doesn't mean it's going to make correct assumptions about how the language is being used in a changing world.
- There will always need to be human editors to look over the works of translation machines. If there is no human overlooking the disparity between the two languages, then we can't be absolutely certain that the real message was received. Important things will always need an editor or checker. This is going to make future translation jobs more like being a technician.

I probably will not end up moving to Japan or being a translator (I'm too old to consider being successful at this), I just like Japanese.

You have to consider that people who learn Japanese just want to learn the language knowing that it probably won't make money. It's just a hobby like skateboarding except with Japanese you don't break your arm after sliding off the grind rail. I think we should be encouraging Japanese learnership instead of discouraging. It's not about the money. It's about the deciphering a foreign language.

It's about 翻訳の楽しみだ！

[Anonymous No.]

>>43076740
Yeah, it's way too common for people to overestimate how AI is gonna take over, which gives them an excuse not to do anything. There's still parts where human input will always be needed at the end. The sort of talk is all boring pessimism where it's really all the same shit AIfags regurgitate for other hobbies like drawing and music. They just can't understand AI still doesn't defeat the purpose of simply having something as a hobby and for personal development. I already have a decent living situation so serious investment to my hobbies isn't something out of my reach at all. For some, there's a point where having enough money to live comfortably is fine. You don't need to constantly seek it where your free time and mental wellness ends up being compromised. Learning Japanese is fun and makes me happy. Simple as.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43075960
Yeah 100%, I'm also Learning Japanese as my first non-native language. The challenge is one of my biggest motivational factors, and it's given me an interest in English grammar and structure because I've never had to think about it so in-depth before.

[Anonymous No.]

OWATA DA DEKINAICHAN
SHINE
*SSHHHHHHHHHNKKKKKK*
*cuts you into a million pieces with ichi no kanpeki katana slice*

just watch anime and vtuber clips
and use a dictionary like jisho or googogru transrato
how hard is this to understand
retarudos

nigonigonigonigonigonigonigonigonigonigonigonigonigonigonigonigonigonigonigonigo

[Anonymous No.]

i wanna learn Japanese so i can say nigga like they do

[Anonymous No.]

>>43078847
good luck

[Anonymous No.]

>>43078847
Just learn Chinese. They already say nigga in their daily conversations and call blacks actual ones in their country.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43078930
sounds like a based place

[Anonymous No.]

>>43086335
That's entire world outside of your collapsing country you american retard
No one else cares about the blacks, it's only in your country one half of it has gone nuts over banning any slurs and the other celebrates any single instance of freedom of the tyranny of the first half, like a child who was banned sweets for his entire life and finally got a lollipop

[Anonymous No.]

>>43041481
>the language is useless outside of japan
>my definition of what is useful and useless must apply to everybody else.
Seems to me that you couldn’t hack it and the idea of somebody not giving up like you did makes you feel inferior.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43086335
>>43086604
No one else cares about them outside of America, but they sure love making fun of them. Asians and slavs especially
https://litter.catbox.moe/jqii9v.webm

[Anonymous No.]

plenty of retards learn japanese, you just cant learn it in a class because classes are retarded.
learn by watching lolis get dped