Touhou Lore Thread

[Anonymous No.]

Discuss anything related to Touhou's lore, from spell cards to Gensokyo itself.
Starting off with a nice bit of lore about Kogasa: She might actually be an Ippon Datara, or atleast part Ippon Datara.
Ippon Datara are youkai inspired by master blacksmiths who would lose one eye due to the fire of their furnace and one leg due to their work.
This would explain why Kogasa is such a talented blacksmith, to the point where she proclaims that no human smith could measure up to her skills

[Anonymous No.]

>>43078144
Elis is just Kurumi with makeup on and a different dress.
This is not negotiable.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43078211
Elis is a stage 15 boss, Kurumi is a stage 2 boss.
Elis lives in Makai, Kurumi lives in Gensokyo.
Elis is a naughty girl, Kurumi is a pure girl.
The differences are very vast.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43078144
Reminder that Grimsokyo is canon and cutesokyofags keep crying about it.

[Anonymous No.]

who is she...?

[Anonymous No.]

>>43078144
does the human village have plumbing and running water? how far technologically they are?

[Anonymous No.]

>>43078144
on the rules of spellcard it say that attacks need to have a meaning and that you cant repeat them. so what about the generic attack that the character does when you hold z? does that break the rules?

[Anonymous No.]

>>43078144
Yeah, it's obvious she takes a bit of her character from there. However, her origin is of a normal Touhou tsukumogami; in fact, she might be the most normal tsukumogami in Touhou. After acquiring her freedom as an umbrella monster, it's likely that she learned of the existence of similar youkai and so "integrated" it into her existence. Gods are mentioned as easily being able to change their nature; but tsukumogami seem to generally be grouped among youkai, and youkai are stated to be unable to change their nature out of their own voltion.
This leaves two options:
1) Tsukumogamis share the easiness of switching nature with gods
2) Because the legend of Ippon Datara was already closely connected to forms similar to Kogasa, she could easily absorb these characteristics.
Great thread op. I will try to research and present my answer to the other questions in the thread.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43078539
Spellcards are special attacks. It's not mentioned that one must only battle by means of spellcards; the regulations just state that once one side has used all of its spellcars and didn't defeat the other, they have to accept defeat.
If you think about it, bosses have non-spells too.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43078958
but is this the only way to win? can you win a spellcard duel by just beating the enemy until ko or something?

[Anonymous No.]

>>43079483
I guess yeah, but unless you're a common fairy it would take too long, if not impossible, to brute force a danmaku match without spell cards

[Anonymous No.]

>>43078382
Reminder that I will have sex with a cute fairy minutes from the moment I step through the Gensokyo portal and there is nothing you can do to stop me.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43079576
Most spells have only about a 60 second timer, you could do it if you were good at dodging their attacks.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43078382
Reminder that grimsokyo isn't canon and the grimsokyo fags won't fucking shut up and accept it.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43080218
What is there to even accept lol? It's canon material you moron

[Anonymous No.]

>>43078144
Questions for the lorefags:
1) Is there any explanation for allowing melee combat in fighting games? If recall correctly, melee was prohibited in spellcard rules draft in PMiSS, probably because most youkai are much stronger than humans.
2) Are tengu and kappa considered beast youkai? (very important)

[Anonymous No.]

>>43080218
[Marisa telling a sobbing village child that stumbling upon corpses is normal while two adults laugh at him.jpg]
Forbidden Scrollery

[Anonymous No.]

>>43081028
Melee is not strictly forbidden. Only a few characters use melee in their cards. Often they are criticized for it, and the card is deemed "not danmaku". There are a lot of misconceptions about the rules, it's worth looking up the spell card rules draft

Technically speaking tengu and kappa have been referred to AS animals, with kappa even being said by Kourin to be soft shelled turtles. However, I'm not sure if you can call them "beast youkai". They ARE quite far removed

[Anonymous No.]

>>43081028
>>43081716
Aya straight up said that she herself is half animal

[Anonymous No.]

>>43081731
That's the thing, though. Beast youkai are ALL animal

[Anonymous No.]

>>43081731
>>43081028
Beast youkai are animals who lived a long life and accumulated great magical power. If we go by Rinnosuke's description, kappa are definitely beasts, since they're overgrown turtles. While they don't seem to be overly physical, it's worth noting that Nitori appears in the fighting games, and a lot of her moves and spell cards seem to be based on technology and gadgets, hinting that she needs to complement her magical skills.
However, PMiSS's description of kappa is definitely a problem. It says that kappa have weak fighting skills, and furthermore doesn't group them among the beast youkai. I would offer a theory for this: the name "kappa" is no longer associated necessarily to the turtles out of which they sprang. All beast youkai are closely connected to their original animal form, and this animal form is their main characteristic: Tewi is a rabbit, Chen is a *neko*mata. Kappa however have their identity as "kappa" as their main identity, not their identity as turtles. The same goes for Tengu (even more so given Tengu can originate from different animals)

[Anonymous No.]

Is Genjii considered a youkai?

[Anonymous No.]

>>43082007
Don't think anyone is specifically called a youkai (though the word itself is used since HRtP) until LLS. That said, his description fits well with one of the characteristics of beast youkai:
>A turtle who has lived a long life and gained many powers.
Since beast youkai are not necessarily hostile to humans (Tewi), I think it's fair to say that he could be a beast youkai.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43081879
Kappa aren't born from turtles are they? I thought they were turtle like, but a seperate mythological being alltogether kind of like how Tengu take upon aspects of animals and even use them but aren't literally the animals or born when an animal is alive long enough.
I understood beast youkai to mean a youkai who has her origin be born of a real animal somehow.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43081716
>>43081731
>>43081879
I wouldn't ask if not for this line in Aya's profile in PoFV. Is this a mistranslation?

[Anonymous No.]

>>43082663
The thing is that "origin" doesn't necessarily mean that they ARE crows, or that kappa are turtles. Both creatures have radically different physical forms although other beast youkai do not and are instead specified to have been animals that transformed. Hell, tengu BREED, AS tengu. Rabbit youkai instead create new rabbit youkai from ordinary rabbits

[Anonymous No.]

>>43078949
Doing God's work, lore-anon. Perhaps both the fact that she's a Tsukumogami, and that she shares similarities with the Ippon Datara (having one eye and one leg) would make switching her nature easy.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43078144
>>43078949
Read the chapter of WaHH where Kogasa makes Reimu new needles

[Anonymous No.]

>>43083556
I'm almost certain that Kogasa's outfit + blue eye are in an effort to resemble the sky and blend into it so her red eye POPs more and seems like her only actual eye (or that's what she thinks; it just makes her look cute)

[Anonymous No.]

>Kogasa
What did she meant by this?

[Anonymous No.]

>>43082663
This anon >>43083370 said it perfectly.
As youkai are born from many different processes, a single creature might become different youkai depending on how exactly they become one. For an example, Shou was born from legends of tigers that developed when they were known just as legends from the mainland; so, here is a clearly animal-related youkai that wasn't actually born as an animal.
Among tengu, there seem to be diverse origins. The name tengu originally meant something along the lines of "heavenly dog", later becoming associated with Sarutahiko, crows, and gongen. You might see that Aya herself uses crows as familiars, as is visible in her art in PoFV and is mentioned in her interview with Chen in BAiJR. What I would make of this is that Aya is a normal crow, that perhaps served as a familiar or other low-end job, that became a full-fledged Tengu. She still shares her animal identity, as seen clearly when she confronts Yukari for the beating of Ran. So what might be made of this is that an animal will not necessarily become a beast youkai if it becomes a youkai.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43082273
Rinnosuke seems to believe their origin is from turtles.
>“I think the origin of the kappa is related to the kahakame.”
>“Kahakame, the river turtle. Their name in kanji is written with the characters meaning “great turtle”. What these characters express is the idea of a huge turtle. It would not be unusual for a fully grown one to reach the size of a human. When these turtles live for many years, they become able to understand human speech and gain the ability to take on a human form, becoming kappa.”
>The real form of the kappa are the great turtles. Tortoises that don’t live in the sea, but in rivers and ponds, and can get incredibly big. In other words, softshell turtles. If these turtles live for too long, they gain supernatural abilities and become kappa.
Not that he is a completely reliable source.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43078502
She's the original Shanghai Alice.
>In any case, it makes me want to play a stringed instrument. Like an erhu. (That came out of nowhere)
From おまけ.txt, EoSD

[Anonymous No.]

>>43083692
>it just makes her look cute
That, I believe, we can all agree on.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43083799
She thinks that the people she fought during the conflict were there to assassinate her on Byakuren’s behalf, probably because she’s rather dumb.
Since she mentioned that “[Byakuren’s] tastes sure have changed”, we can presume that there recurring encounters between her and the Buddhists, though those likely weren’t as all that violent as the fights in the game. Though we’re given no details on the subject, it’s likely that they simply considered Kogasa a nuisance and chastised her in an effort to get her to leave the graveyard.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43084959
Byakuren doesn't seem to have any hostility towards her though, and Kogasa is still playing on the graveyard as of the latest chapter of CDS
I think it's more likely that Kogasa is referring to assassins sent toward other people.. though who those would be I'm still trying to investigate

[Anonymous No.]

>>43085109
Them being unable to stop Kogasa doesn’t mean they’re happy about her hanging around their graveyard. Byakuren is also not a very honest figure, despite her efforts to cultivate such a virtuous image. Her dream self in AoCM is a good example of the kind of desires she hides under the surface. She’s pretty sneaky with manipulative traits, but fairly decent at hiding it.
It’s plausible that she sent some people to try to pressure Kogasa to leave. She probably didn’t order them to be violent, and their encounters were likely not all that aggressive, but given how the Myouren trainees are, it’s not impossible that things got somewhat violent and Byakuren simply turned a blind eye to their actions, leaving enough room to give her plausible deniability, while tacitly supporting her devotees’ actions.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43085637
>Her dream self in AoCM is a good example of the kind of desires she hides under the surface.
lol

[Anonymous No.]

>>43085637
Can't believe Aya was right the whole time:
>There's nothing wrong with wanting an easier life.
>If I could attain enlightenment without training, nothing would please me more.
>Incidentally, don't leave please.
>I make the disciples do all the cooking, cleaning, and laundry by telling them it's for their training.
>It's to make my life easier.
But still, we don't have to take what the dream selves say at face value. Even then, she did try to get rid of Miko, so...
I still don't believe that she would have that much hostility towards Kogasa to send "assassins", though. Perhaps your theory that she is sending someone to just chastise her might be right.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43078513
According to my research, it's very likely that the human village has no sewer system. The most common type of toilet in Japan prior to the 20th century seems to have been pit toilets, and I imagine this tendency must be even stronger in the far-off rural area of Gensokyo. But that's not all: the custom in Japan and China was to use human refuse as fertilizer for the farms. While I cannot prove this, it's likely that the human village has pit toilets which are emptied by low class workers and then delivered to the farms around the village. Reading some chapters of LE, I couldn't find any evidence for running water at Geidontei, and I think it's unlikely I'd find it in any other manga, though it's not impossible. I haven't read all chapters too, and I do think that Miyoi cleans things sometimes, but I found no evidence of plumbing.
However, there is a river passing right through the human village. It can be seen multiple times in LE, and in DDC the stage 2 music is "Humans and Youkai passing through the Channel".
While this channel could certainly be used for the water supply, it seems more likely that it is related to the practice of digging channels for irrigation, something mentioned frequently in the Kojiki and Nihon Shoki.
Right at the start of WaHH there are some chapters about the water supply, but no major waterworks are mentioned that couldn't be constructed with Pre-Nara era tools, when there was almost a total absence of plumbing.
It's not impossible that the Human Village, as at least a medium-sized settlement with close connections to higher technology youkai could have plumbing, but at the moment I am yet to see any evidence for that.
There's no smell associated to rivers in Touhou so I don't think human refuse is dumped into them, except maybe as an indirect consequence of soil infiltration/rain.

[Anonymous No.]

Are youkai able to be killed with modern weapons? Could you harm the likes of Yuuka or Yuugi with a machine gun

[Anonymous No.]

>>43086005
Probably not those two, they're stupidly powerful
Someone like Cirno or Kagerou, probably.
Yuuka could probably take a 120mm APFSDS round and catch it before it hit her. And Yuugi would just tank it without missing a beat.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43086005
>In extermination, one does not use weapons that cause physical damage.
>*Youkai have stronger bodies than humans, so even if they're split into five parts, they heal right away.
So unless your machine gun has a history of destroying youkai, you will likely cause only minute amounts of pain. Unless of course you're dealing with a beast youkai.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43086005
The only way to kill an oni is borderline with a tactical nuke
And even then they might still survive it since they live in the environment of hell which is already scorching hot so i don't think a nuke would make for much difference

[Anonymous No.]

>>43086005
Reading a passage in the Bible would probably hurt them more than a bunch of bullets. Unless said machine gun has some weird shit applied to it, like said bullets being blessed by a priest and dipped in holy water, or having Buddhist scripture about finding clarity etched onto it the body of the gun.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43086074
Devils exist in touhou so I wouldn't be surprised if what you said is possible

[Anonymous No.]

>>43086045
Don't go that far. You're thinking too much about massive amounts of physical damage; but the damage that's KEY to harming youkai is mental. So in order to defeat an oni you have to know the old oni extermination tricks, which were all lost to history even in Gensokyo. Also, there are mentally strong oni like Suika (who is unfazed by beans), so...

[Anonymous No.]

>>43086093
aren't devils just a species of youkai though?

[Anonymous No.]

>>43086115
Yeah, but ritual and prayer does a lot of crazy shit in Gensokyo. The Holy Scripture is used by all sects of Christianity for exorcising malevolent beings, either it be for a literal devil, or an angry spook that wont pass on.
I don't think any youkai is going to enjoy hearing it, especially if it's directed to banish them especially.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43086173
I think there is some merit to the idea that there is a disconnect of sorts between "western" and "eastern" demons/youkai
The scarlets, Rumia and people in Makai are all pretty western, and it would make sense for their extermination to follow roughly with old European traditions and folklore, whereas Eastern youkai like the tengu and oni would be impervious to Christian exorcism, but weak to Jap/chink superstitions.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43086098
I thought Suika's gourd was yukari's tits

[Anonymous No.]

>>43086074
>Reading a passage in the Bible would probably hurt them more than a bunch of bullet
now i want a typing of the dead style game but with reimu reading the bible.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43086596
For Reimu, it would probably be better if she was reciting Norito or something like that.
Actually, she even uses some Buddhist elements, going back to HRtP, and she was open to the idea of changing her god in CoLA, so I believe she would have no problem on reciting the Bible or the Quran.
I mean, Sanae has a spellcard that mentions Moses', so...

[Anonymous No.]

>>43086258
I don't think so
Remilia mentions that crosses are not effective on her, but at the same time she has the typical oni weaknesses (most cleary seem by her distaste of beans)
Magical power is something that only exists when it's recognized as so; a crucifix would be no good if there's no one who knows the meaning of Christ's victory against death.
And in Gensokyo, the most known symbols are all Eastern in nature

[Anonymous No.]

>>43086258
I mean, fairy itself is originated from the west and yet they easily get exterminated by some paper with funny asian writing on it

[Anonymous No.]

>>43087131
I don't think the concept of fairy is that western-specific, but yeah all of Touhou's fairies are western
Kinda weird if you think about that. Aren't they supposed to be manifestations of nature? Why do they carry English names?

[Anonymous No.]

>>43086920
but she says she is weak to garlic and silver too tought

[Anonymous No.]

>>43086920
Gensokyans, I guess you can call them that, wouldn't know what the fuck a vampire is, but Remilia still has most of their weakness, like sunlight and running water. Onis on the other hand, don't have these weaknesses at the same time when vampires get put in a similar category.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43086920
I don't think crosses ever had that much of an effect.
I don't like the bean thing and refuse to accept it as canon, it stems from how "vampire" gets translated into "blood sucking oni" which is just the most random bullshit I can think of. If it were just an allegorical thing, and people recognised that they were unrelated but were only called that cause nihon is fucking autistic 90% of the time, i'd be more open to it, but to me it makes no sense whatsoever.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43087159
>>43087169
Well, as I said, these are symbols that were recognized in Gensokyo. Rinnosuke even comments that he believes that vampires have these "obvious" weaknesses in order to hide their more fundamental weak points. He even suggests that they strive to have these weaknesses known, such as garlic and running water.
But still, western symbols that aren't recognized will not have power. Like the fairies of light could touch the Yin-Yang orb without being hurt, while Kasen couldn't, since she knew/noticed its power. Or at least I think so. Fairies really have a strange position in lore.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43087243
It's not like Remilia takes it as an absolute weakness too. She was fine with a bean-throwing festival inside the SDM, after all.
And even onis eat beans, so...
As all mental weaknesses, you're weak only if you accept it. The thing is, youkai can't refuse it: their origin and source for existence is the minds of human, and if humans neglect their existence, they (should) stop existing

[Anonymous No.]

>>43087153
yousei are actually japanese creatures. i think that the implication is that western fairies and japanese yousei are the same kind of creatures. hell, clownpiece is a lampad, which means greek nymphs are fairies too

[Anonymous No.]

>>43086920
a little unrelated but an interesting thing that Remillia also mentions on touhou IN is that she feeds on blood of only people who fears her. is there any youkai that do not feed on fear at all or this was a mistranslation?

[Anonymous No.]

>>43087366
Well yeah, but why no yousei/fairy has a Japanese name?

[Anonymous No.]

>>43087639
The strange thing is that some youkai seem not to be known among the human villagers. The oni, for example, were thought to have left Gensokyo forever; in fact, they were equalled with fairytales. Then how could they maintain their existence?
Satori lives below the ground and as far as we know she has barely left there; the only instances that I remember is CDS and Byakuren against Koishi's versus lines in AoCF. If we think that perhaps she could leave sometime, or that the legend of satori was somehow spread in the Human Village, well then you could think about Minamitsu who was sealed and forgotten. How could she keep existing?
Most youkai have their existence thanks to fear; a few of them feed exclusively on human fear, like Kogasa, and don't need to eat or seek to eat humans.
However, some youkai do seem to have a more amicable relationship with humans, and it is doubtful whether the human villagers fear the zashiki-warashi, or if they fear the calm mermaid by the lake.
Perhaps the right word shouldn't be fear, but acknowledgement of existence. Even then it doesn't explain all cases. There's something more at play here.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43087830
The villagers DO fear the youkai of the underworld, some pretty scary shit down there.
Just because there are no humans in the underworld doesn't mean they can't get fear from above.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43088365
Do they even know about them? Did the villagers prior to SA have ANY knowledge about satoris, hell ravens and such beings?
Even if they did, there is simply no way they could know about Minamitsu &co, since, they were sealed even before the Hakurei barrier was established.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43087830
>The oni, for example, were thought to have left Gensokyo forever; in fact, they were equalled with fairytales
It doesn't means that the villager believe that oni are just a myth duh, as you said they thought that oni only left Gensokyo, and not become extinct or something.
Also irl outside world still believe in some of the youkai and gods in Gensokyo anyway, either with religion, folklore, or pop culture, so the threat of complete extinction only really applies to youkai with really basic origin and purpose like Rumia and Kyouko.
That's why Mamizou only moved to Gensokyo pretty recently, she's probably didn't felt the urgent need to relocate into the fantasy land until Nue invited her in because Tanuki are still popular in outside world even if it's thanks to Mario 3 power up or something

[Anonymous No.]

>>43087830
what if the youkai needing fear thing is just a huge pysop by the humans to make the youkai not go full genocide on them?

[Anonymous No.]

bump

[Anonymous No.]

>>43088598
I don't believe the humans could have enough power over the narrative to do that.
The thing is, youkai are beings born from the human mind. They only exist to those who recognise their existence, and as such they need humans to constantly be reminded of them. It's probably because of this that youkai eat humans and youkai cause incidents; if the humans forgot and didn't believe anymore, youkai would stop existing.
As Rinnosuke says, youkai are beings that exist in the mental space. They might be able to influence physical reality, but they are only able to exist in physical reality if they also exist in mental reality, unlike let's say a rock. I truly believe that the final aim of Touhou will perhaps be youkai getting another form of acknowledgement by humans and then Gensokyo entering an era of peace.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43086920
The cross without being hold/owned by someone with faith is just a cross, the faith in it working and in God is the most important.
So a christian holding it would probably be able to hurt remilia

[Anonymous No.]

>>43088447
Just because they don't know the Touhous personally, doesn't mean they don't fear the youkai they are based on. Someone who is found dead because they fell into a river and drowned is going to be blamed on malevolent spirits like Murasa or some other youkai like a Kappa.
Suika says that the human village keeps her kind around because oni survive in their oral traditions and festivals.
Marisa also makes it a point to Kosuzu that superstition is how the human village answers the unknown. Some loud noise in the forest at night is going to be blamed on a monster, not some nocturnal bird like a owl.

[Anonymous No.]

I've heard that outsiders become celebrities, why is that?

[Anonymous No.]

>>43095313
If I lived all my life in a village that I know is separated from the outside world and suddenly an outsider appears, I would be very interested. Just imagine all the useless knowledge and tales of the outside he could share.
Humans in Gensokyo live well, but the unexpected is always exciting.

[Anonymous No.]

What is Kotohime doing selling clothing in the Hakurei Shrine's Red Snow Market?

[Anonymous No.]

>>43087282
>She was fine with a bean-throwing festival inside the SDM, after all.
She was NOT fine. She got very grumpy because she was unable to participate. The beans stung her skin. She allowed the event because Patchouli insisted on doing it (Patchouli has a weird, unexplained fixation on oni)
>And even onis eat beans, so...
*Suika*, the actual most powerful oni we know of, does not fear beans and indeed will eat them. Yuugi, however, says that her own weakness is beans and she's much more honest than Suika so I believe her.

Patchouli has said that the bean weakness was invented, however,

[Anonymous No.]

>>43078382
>>43080144
reminder that grimsokyofags and cutesokyofags are both fucking stupid. The actual answer is it is both. It's not the cute paradise fanworks may portray it as, but it's not this ultra girmderp grimdark setting like Worm or 40k is either. It is a middle ground. It is a setting in which yes people do die and the youkai do kill people, but there are cute comfy moments as well.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43078144
how hygienic do you fags think that the people and youkais of Gensokyo are? do they bath? do they use toilet paper?

[Anonymous No.]

>>43099776
What did people do to wipe their asses before we had toilet paper?

[Anonymous No.]

>>43099846
They used tree leaves

[Anonymous No.]

>>43099776
>>43099846
>>43099857
They use water duh

[Anonymous No.]

>>43099911
Wait so if they want to clean their anus after defecation do they just pressure wash it?

[Anonymous No.]

>>43099776
>>43099846
You talk about toilet paper as if it's the modern and civilized way to clean your ass. You should really be using bidets instead.
>how hygienic do you fags think that the people and youkais of Gensokyo are?
Maybe the tengu and kappa might have some sense of hygiene but I doubt all the other youkai and humans ever wash their hands.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43099930
see >>43099945

[Anonymous No.]

>>43099930
Just use your hands and then clean it afterward
They're not eating garbage processed "foods" like the american, so their poop are bunch of healthy solid chunk and not just watery mess shart

[Anonymous No.]

>>43099987
Poor Americans... they don't have that chunky hard poop. They don't know what they're missing.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43099846
In Japan, wooden strips. But actually they have got local toilet paper since the Nara period, so in Gensokyo they probably use toilet paper as well.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43099776
>Do they bath?
Yes
>Do they use toilet paper?
Also yes
We still need to get a good look at a bathroom though. I think the only bathroom that appears in Touhou is in ULiL...?

[Anonymous No.]

>>43099945
Really? In a place with a religion which (like many others) emlhasizes cleanliness? We do hear sometimes of diseases in the humans, but the overall health condition of humans seems pretty good
The inhabitants of Gensokyo are probably as clean as the technology allows them to go; not all youkai might share on this, but I'm pretty sure they don't get smelly, so it's fine.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43100508
We haven't seen a single Touhou character take a bath, have we? Maybe they don't bathe at all. Imagine if that were true. Imagine the absolute smell.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43100539
What do you mean? Reimu has taken a bath just a few chapters ago in Lotus Eaters. She has been bathing since SoEW, in fact. She and Marisa love hot spring baths. Ok, this is different from regular bathing, but Reimu has basic notions of cleanliness, as in CoLA when she says she will have to wash her clothes again after a heavy rain. Marisa I'm not so sure, but Reimu knows her religious obligation of ritual and body purity. I imagine the same goes for the village, which inhabitants are all influenced by Shinto

[Anonymous No.]

>>43100551
>Reimu
Blatant lies to save face! She's absolutely stinky! Her stench stank up every place she's been to!

[Anonymous No.]

>>43080218
Ok youkai

[Anonymous No.]

I would like to suggest another genre for posts in this thread. It's fine for people to answer questions, but I think contributing with your own original thoughts about characters also has some value.
There is constant debate about how the fandom treats some characters poorly, so I think it's nice to recognize these characters whose personalities are generally well understood and respected. For me, Yumemi is one of these characters.
She is the first outsider to appear in Touhou, and the fact that she is explicitly marked as so demonstrates that ZUN already had at least some idea of the different space which would be later named Gensokyo. Her personality is very interesting, but what really shines is her fascination with magic.
Really, Yumemi's outside world is so similar to Renko and Maribel's that I refuse to believe this is a coincidence. A world where humanity enjoys the apex of science; Yumemi states that humans in her world think that everything there is to be discovered either is or will be, and with their Grand Unified Theory no existence outside of its paradigms can be accepted. She was laughed out of academia (and later literally kicked out) because of her simple suggestion that there might be something more.
From where she got her belief in magic is unclear. She herself is uncapable of magic, as is her world's Chiyuri, so it's unlike Renko and Maribel who enjoy the use of supernatural powers. To counter that, she has knowledge of the occult, and such a profound knowledge that she manages to switch Kana's place of haunting, freeing her from her prison at a place that no longer cared about her. This knowledge of the occult she shares with the other outside world residents to a large extent, but where she really shines is her knowledge of science. She has so many incredible feats: she is a professor at 18 (Renko for example is just a student), she made all of her and her world's Chiyuri magic out of positively-charged photons, and she somehow has a ship that wades through dimensions; and with this ship she managed to find the one place where all of her theories were true; the place of magic, Gensokyo. Her true biggest desire is to make that power hers. But what is magic? Magic is the childlike innocence of power; magic is the rebellious power that resists being explained by the harsh laws of physics. In a world where everything is explained, there is nothing new to discover. In a world where there is nothing new to discover, there is no innocence; no awe; there is only concrete and skyscrapers. Yumemi resisted that; and she resisted despite all of the insults hurled towards her. In all the endings, after discovering magic, the one thing she wants to do is share it: to solve her world's problems, to combine it with religion to restore hope. Yet even then she is unsuccessful. Her theme, Strawberry Crisis, for me represents her rage at academia and her hope, the hope that only she has, that the world is something more. What is magic? Magic is something that makes what you desire. In a world where you don't have magic, you can't fulfill your desires. In a world without magic, there are no dreams. Yumemi has a dream.
Also, the last ending in PoDD is Chiyuri's ending, since Yumemi gets stuck in her world because of the energy imbalance. I truly believe she would be one of the easiest characters to bring back from PC-98 (oh, I solved the energy imbalance. I'm back).

[Anonymous No.]

>>43103995
>humanity enjoys the apex of science
that doesn't sound like "the future" Renko and Merry are from. They frequently talk about the general situation of the earth being dire, with science not being able to save it--only attempt to fake it.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43104607
But that's the same situation as Yumemi, if you read it closely.
What Yumemi complains the most is the same complaint of Renko and Maribel: the academia believes they already know everything, and so they lack imagination and can't solve their society's problems.
In all of Yumemi's endings she talks about magic being able to solve her world's problems (though Chiyuri doubts it)

[Anonymous No.]

>>43103995

[Anonymous No.]

>>43104707
That's a very interesting image. What is the Yukari x Yumemi image trying to point out?

[Anonymous No.]

>>43104646
>What Yumemi complains the most is the same complaint of Renko and Maribel: the academia believes they already know everything, and so they lack imagination and can't solve their society's problems.
Not really? I only read it all for the first time recently but there's comments about how children rarely smile these days, there are widespread efforts to save failing environments, there are failed space-living attempts left abandoned, food is synthesized and so on. It basically reads like ZUN's cynical take on where humanity is headed rather than any kind of utopia or apex of science.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43104812
But all of those efforts fail, don't they? Both RenMari and Yumemi believe that the solution to their/the world's problems lies in the magic that was forsaken by the outside world.
But really, we must also see that this is only the character's point of view. Chiyuri doesn't seem to care that much about the problems Yumemi points out, neither does she have such a big thirst for magic.
In PoDD specially, I have long ago theorized that dreams = desires. All characters in that game are after something they desire, and this desire is reflected in their magic. For an example, Kana wants to not disappear (because she's a poltergeist whom people don't fear, she's in risk of losing her reason of existence), so her music is Vanishing Dream, her magic has birds representing leaving cages, etc.
Yumemi's desire is simply to have desire. The outside world of Yumemi and the CDs is repeatedly described as stale. Yumemi wants to use magic to change this staleness. She wants her world to be more than what it is

[Anonymous No.]

>>43100551
Marisa likes to take baths.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43104889
In SA both of them are thinking about the hot baths that popped up, and thus I didn't count it. I don't think she has ever been seen bathing, and some of her practices are very unhygienic. I mean, she lives in the most toxic place in Gensokyo, and I was specially disgusted at that chapter in CoLA when she filled her hat with mushrooms and just put it back on her head. So I won't say that she's the cleanest.
But yeah, Touhous do like bathing. There's also discussion about hot baths in chapter 2 of WaHH and in the manual of SoEW. There might be in more places too.
Marisa also takes Reimu to a date in the Lake of Blood in LLS, though I don't think they swim in it.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43104923
It says she likes to bathe, end of story honestly. It literally doesn't matter how you choose to think of it when it's an absolute statement.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43104923
>I don't think she has ever been seen bathing
Nobody in touhou has been seen bathing. Reimu mentions bathing, that's it. It's not a fanservice series so of course we never see it.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43104882
It seems like a backward-looking reach. Even if I like Yumemi and wouldn't mind seeing her back at all, most of what her arc and goals are described as are specifically silly and pointless--naturally because all of the pc-98 games are comedy focused. The idea is that she's from some place where science is at its absolute peak to the point that she's literally able to use scientific advancements to travel to other realities and yet she's still interested in "magic" (which to everyone else seems absurd). This actually isn't the same as the outside world seen in the print works. Although somewhat niche, esoteric ideas are still supported, faith is still observed, and it's less that magic is outright "impossible" and more that, like in present day, most people don't believe in it. Merry outright has a fanbase as an esoteric (non)fiction author in their stories. Renko and Merry are not interested in heroism or solving problems either, if I remember right, they're just interested in fantasy because it's interesting. Lastly as far as I know their club is officially recognized at their university, which is a far cry from Yumemi nearly being laughed out of hers for her theories.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43104923
>Putting mushrooms in her hat
That's not that bad. Picked mushrooms aren't all that dirty, people used to eat carrots straight from the ground after brushing them off a little.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43104942
Reimu has been seen bathing in Lotus Eaters. She bathes in Yuugi's thermal pools.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43104998
Is that a recent chapter? I must have missed it.

Would be a literal first in that case, but fwiw I wouldn't have said "I need to see her bathing to know she bathes" prior to something released in 2023.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43104933
It's not. She only liked to bath in that game because it was better than going to Old Hell. It's the only incident that both Reimu and Marisa seem uninterested in going to solve.
Marisa is stinky

[Anonymous No.]

>>43104978
The Forest of Magic is very humid. She put all of these mushrooms in her very sweaty hat and then just put the hat back on her head, walking all the way to Kourindou. That's disgusting!

[Anonymous No.]

>>43104977
>nearly
checked again and nevermind, she WAS laughed out of her uni, officially booted from it actually

[Anonymous No.]

>>43104977
We can't say for sure that it's the same, but it's very similar.
Also, the esoteric clearly also exists in Yumemi's world, since she's able to use it.
We don't see that much about Yumemi's world, but if it isn't Renko and Maribel's it is probably ZUN's inspiration. As >>43104707 puts it, the Grand Unified Theory is present in both worlds. That is such a random thing to be mentioned that I believe ZUN at least is referencing PoDD here.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43105091
Yes she is, but... The occult also isn't a subject in university in Renko's world, you know. The enthusiasts of the occult are clearly a fringe group, where many people are fakers (I think this was in one of the later CDs), and the current scientific climate seems similar enough. Really, we just have almost nothing to work with in PoDD, so when a clear similarity exists we must theorize on it. It's obviously possible that nothing is meant by that, but once the similarities are noted, you must at least explain them away.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43105102
>Also, the esoteric clearly also exists in Yumemi's world, since she's able to use it.
She isn't, though? Of course it's not blatantly described what it is she's doing with her danmaku, but I have to imagine it's "science" of some kind for a few reasons. First is that she does not understand magic--she was LOOKING for it and says she wants to make it her own power. She doesn't know how magic works and in her world it, and even divine power, are seemingly not concepts (she assumes Reimu, a priestess, is using magic for example).

[Anonymous No.]

>>43105159
She isn't able to use magic, but she can use the occult. Reimu's scenario:
>I don't have magic, but I have the power of science.
>Because of that, I am well-versed in the occult.
Later in Kana's ending Yumemi uses the occult to move her place of haunting from the old mansion to the Hakurei Shrine. I'll get the quote later if you want
And yeah, her danmaku is science, it's even described as such. Yumemi is searching for magic, but magic ≠ occult

[Anonymous No.]

not even stinkyposting could save this thread

[Anonymous No.]

I see no problem with this thread. I am quite enjoying discussing lore here, thanks everyone.
>>43105020 yeah it's four or five chapters ago. But really, I do think that most humans in Touhou bath. Two things aren't clear: frequency of baths and if youkai also bath. Some definitely do, like the oni of Old Hell. But I don't know if Remilia and Flandre can bath.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43105299
Remilia and Flandre should be able to bathe without issue. Showering may potentially hurt them, and rinsing off would potentially hurt them as well (even if dumping water over their bodies). Basically, originally, they had the basic vampire weakness related to water: "cannot cross flowing water". However, in 17.5 Flandre is shown to take damage from water itself (though admittedly it's always flowing in that game) and complains about places full of water.

I personally headcanon that they probably have a large bath for themselves and the fairies + others like Patchouli, Sakuya, and Meiling. Patchouli also waterproofs her books, and Marisa thinks that must be useful for bathing, though technically who knows if she brings books into baths. She does talk about not liking to go outside much because the sun damages her hair, which suggests she cares about that, and probably bathes.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43105364
That would make sense. Perhaps the vampires' weaknesses to flowing water can be explained in two ways: both from the fact that it is one of their traditional weaknesses and also because flowing water is used for purification in Shinto.
Also, for the SDM, I believe it must have been in Europe for as recently as when Agatha Christie's books were released; at the very least, the library contains books in Esperanto, which is a constructed language made around the 1890's, so they must have been in Europe at least then (or at least in the outside world. Not that Gensokyo's barrier stops them from getting outside world items, but their presence in Patchouli's library where she didn't have reference books for the Apollo project probably means they were there before they entered Gensokyo.) So the SDM might even have some pretty modern notions of hygiene.
I am not sure of other groups though. Eientei is clean, surely... That reminds me that Kaguya has also been seen bathing, though it was in Inaba. Moriya people must have modern notions of hygiene, kappa live in water, so... I don't think there is any particular group in Gensokyo which is known for lack of proper care. Those that live in environments too extreme to bath might be free from dirtiness by this same fact.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43105479
TL/DR, smellposting anon is dumb.
people in areas with water in abundance have washed and bathed because good hygene makes healthy living.
Hell, before bathtubs were common, people used to just jump in the local river, cold or not.
Being a little cold for a while is far better than catching a disease from lice or other "unwashed" bug, and since Gensokyo has a pretty small population with a pretty large river, it makes no sense for people to remain unwashed.
The rich might be able to afford a bathTUB, and heat their water over the fire, but everyone will bathe pretty frequently. That goes for the Western people too. I bet Alice bathes daily, for example.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43105479
In some vampire myths, they can't cross over flowing water. I guess ZUN just has them literally get hurt by moving water, and not just be a impassable barrier that keeps them from moving through it.
The Scarlets sisters might not be able to enter someones home unless they are invited either.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43105538
what about the tengus? Youkai in general don't have to worry about microbial diseases because they are physical diseases and youkai only get diseases of the mind; and also, body odor might work differently for youkai since microbes might not be able to live on them.
So for a youkai that doesn't live with humans like tengu, why would they bathe?

[Anonymous No.]

>>43105582
Youkai get cold and even die of hypothermia.
They seem to be at the mercy of the physical world like a human, but they just don't die permanently like one.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43105479
Characters tend to say that beast youkai stink. This could just be bantz, but it does happen a lot and in the example pic it's actually NOT bantz. Reimu, alone, says it stinks of youkai, or stinks of animals.

Joon says that Shion stinks, also. Let's be real: Shion probably smells bad, for sure. Joon also smokes, but she's also super pleasant to be around so I headcanon that her divinity actually counteracts any bad smells. Minoriko says that gods in general are very particular about their scent, and she supposedly smells like sweet potatoes herself.
Orin almost certainly must smell bad as her work is carting corpses.
Beings like fairies are "eternal" in a way similar to the Hourai, and I feel like you can guess that even if they don't bathe, they also don't smell. They don't need to eat, though they do sweat if it's hot. They respawn and all that and are very strange beings.

As for SDM's location or time, we know that SDM has been in Gensokyo since at least before 1998. They are also known to be very new to Gensokyo. I believe you can guess that they were legitimately familiar with a lot of Outside World modernity. In fact, doesn't Patchouli reference video games? Meiling is also known to read manga... though supposedly that is tengu manga.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43105582
A lot of what if's
If youkai don't need to bathe, and don't gain anything from doing so, they won't
However, we *know* Oni bathe a lot, Oni are pretty youkai-like youkai, so I see no reason that anyone else is different. Hence, youkai probably bathe a lot too, although more for general cleanliness.
Someone like Roomimia probably doesn't but only because she's dense as a bag of bricks, and probably reeks of raw liver.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43105541
The flowing water is ((chaos)).

[Anonymous No.]

>>43105638
Reimu must have a good nose.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43105541
>The Scarlets sisters might not be able to enter someones home unless they are invited either.
If the Shrine counts as a home, it seems that that isn't true. Remilia comes to Reimu's home uninvited in the ending of EoSD.

Vampires in touhou have some extra weaknesses vampires "in reality" don't have, and lack weaknesses in the same vein. Remilia is not weak to garlic, for instance, just thinks it's gross. She is also unfazed by crosses, and uses them herself. Fire will not have much of an effect on her either (another classic vamp weakness). She also can be photographed, meaning she can be reflected in mirrors. As mentioned earlier in the thread, though, she is hurt by roasted basedbeans because she is "an oni". Furthermore as said, Flandre is shown to be damaged by water.

I feel you can safely assume that a stake to the heart will kill Flandre and Remilia, but of course Touhou isn't about killing so we don't know for sure.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43105710
>If the Shrine counts as a home, it seems that that isn't true. Remilia comes to Reimu's home uninvited in the ending of EoSD.
actually I'm reading that she was supposedly invited? I'm too lazy to check it
It does mention Eientei as well, however, and indeed I know for sure she wasn't invited in there and just barged right in with Sakuya

[Anonymous No.]

>>43105479
I guess you can safely assume the SDM crew moved into Gensokyo after the barrier was erected, because there's no way you could teleport huge ass mansion to rural Japan without them attracting the Japanese government and probably tell the westerner to look into it

[Anonymous No.]

>>43107205
yeah but it could have moved into Japan before entering Gensokyo
It probably did as all SDM members speak fluent Japanese
but it must have been either present or having strong connections with Europe as late as at least the 1890s, if not the 1920s
Sakuya wasn't aware of the incident that happens every 60 years, so she at least wasn't in Gensokyo in 1945

[Anonymous No.]

>>43107339
>speak fluent Japanese
Patchouli's magic

[Anonymous No.]

>>43105638
I guess that beast youkai stink because they are still the animal that inspired them. In that case, maybe some who are animals who don't bathe often might be averse to baths too. But some who are more conscious/care more about their appearances like Kagerou might have different behaviour.
And I don't think Mamizou ever stank up Suzunaan in Forbidden Scrollery, so perhaps Reimu could be either smelling her minions (who are more beast-like) or simply talking trash about youkai again.
I'll have to search later for more quotes on beast youkai smelling though

[Anonymous No.]

>>43105044
Clearly she uses magic to preserve them.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43104737
It's pointing out Maribel x Yukari, and comparing it to Renko x Yumemi

[Anonymous No.]

>>43107205
>>43107339
I have thought that SDM crew got into Gensokyo via Makai, as both the mansion and Makai architecture use red tiles, and have overall a Western feeling to it. Similarly to Byakuren, the mansion was sealed away to Makai, from somewhere in Japan. Then, after the incident in Mystic Square, Makai residents were able to enter Gensokyo for a short time enough for some of them to move to Gensokyo. This is when the SDM moved in.

As for how Scarlets and Patchouli ended up in Japan, no idea. Scarlets could've been part of some European family that moved to Japan in Meiji era. Patchouli followed them as their "home doctor" to help them as vampires. Then Meiling and Sakuya joined to crew before they were sealed away, as the crew was seen as evil and malicious. Their original mansion could've looked different from the current one, with the red Makai tiles being adapted to it afterwards. Koakuma could've joined the crew in Makai.

As for how SDM was able to be teleported to Gensokyo, no idea. SDM crew has had the most plotholes in the whole series, so they are just waiting to be filled up. (This post ended up as a headcanon pretty fast)

[Anonymous No.]

>>43111379
Makai in general is a pretty shaky place in terms of whats canon or not. UFO didn't help this, and ended up muddying the waters of what makai even was.

I take the PC98 position of it being a true dimension, one that you cannot get to by moving around in Euclidean space, you have to go through a portal or some shit, and it's seperated by the inter-dimensional borderlands, where Mugenkan "is"
I think it'd be easier to get to Gensokyo through makai, but that doesn't mean that they had to go to japan first. I'd prefer if they hid in Makai once scientific progress hit a certain point in the west, and only moved to gensokyo when they did because it took them a while to sidestep the barrier.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43111379
Yeah, that would be possible. It's interesting that Koakuma is one of the few demons in Windows Touhou, but they're much more common in MS.
Though, as the SDM has been in Gensokyo since at least 1998 (I think this is in the Prismrivers' article in BAiJR), they must have gotten before MS's incident. The barrier between Gensokyo and Makai seems to be pretty porous too so I don't think they would have much problem going there. Actually, this remembers me that Sakuya mentions Makai in PCB or something, so your theory is very good.
As for how they came to Japan, I think that some rural areas of Europe could support belief in supernatural creatures up to the 1920s. They were probably in England then. I think that it is mentioned somewhere Patchouli is just around 120 years old, so it's likely that she was born (?) in England too around the last years of the Scarlets in Europe. I don't know about Meiling's clothing, is it Chinese communist style? Perhaps that could throw their getting into Asia even after the 1950's. Sakuya definitely wasn't in Gensokyo in 1945, so that's something.
Entering Gensokyo is relatively easy if you know what you're doing, ans Yukari's Youkai Expansion Project basically makes it that youkai gravitate naturally towards Gensokyo.

[Anonymous No.]

I find it funny that most people have forgotten that Gods can get faith from not only humans but youkai aswell
Would that mean that youkai can also spawn their own gods by having faith in them?

[Anonymous No.]

>>43113840
>The barrier between Gensokyo and Makai seems to be pretty porous too so I don't think they would have much problem going there. Actually, this remembers me that Sakuya mentions Makai in PCB or something, so your theory is very good.
While she does, this is in banter and hard to take seriously. She's specifically talking to Yukari and trying to sound cool. She does specify devils, however, that's worth noting. She's basically trying to imply that she is used to devils because of Remilia and Flandre, and banter or no it's fairly likely ZUN was making implications by having her mention Makai at all.

That said, it isn't porous. This has been contradicted and so it's one of the things you can ignore from pc98 ever since ZUN said windows is a clean slate. Reaching Makai is nearly impossible in windows canon. To date, the only known way to get to and from the place is to use Murasa's special ship, and that's only to get to Houkai specifically.

It's also worth keeping in mind that Remilia specifically has outside world connections (noted in Forbidden Scrollery: it's how she got her Chupacabra) and that the mansion contains stuff from the outside world.

That said all of this speculation is actually a moot point. Remilia is from the Outside World, as is presumably the Mansion https://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Perfect_Memento_in_Strict_Sense/Reimu_Hakurei
In Reimu's PMiSS article, Akyuu states the vampire who started the vampire incident came from the Outside World (外の世界) and while Akyuu is known to make shit up/be wrong from time to time, there isn't much cause for it here as she's spoken to Remilia for the book (and in other works this has since been confirmed to be Remilia)

[Anonymous No.]

>>43083799
Maybe it connected to whole Buddhist is ninjas from Aya paper? Or who was spitting that nonsense? Or maybe buddhists are that sketchy

[Anonymous No.]

>>43111428
>>43113840
You're right, it's more logical that SDM was originally somewhere in Europe before ending up to Gensokyo.

>>43114968
I'd argue that by Akyuu saying Remilia is from Outside World, it does also mean that Remilia has the wisdom and knowledge of the Outside World. In SoPm's Afterword (https://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Symposium_of_Post-mysticism/Afterword_by_Hieda_no_Akyuu)), Akyuu says that the vampires "came from the West", indicating not only that Scarlets are Western, but also how their customs and manner is Western as well.

As you mentioned, Remilia has connections and knows a lot about Outside World. In earlier posts it was mentioned has Patchouli has a lot of literature from Outside World, even "newer" books. If they once were cut off from the Outside World (like being in Makai), it wouldn't have cut all their relations to their past world. Patchouli could have skills to communicate people and even summon magical creatures outside Gensokyo or other realms. SDM and Remilia especially showed that they were far different from the Japanese youkai, which made them stand out and look like they were from Outside World. Remilia often boasts how she's the descendant of Vlad Tepes, a figure from Outside World.

Therefore, Remilia and other SDM crew are clearly from Outside World, but there's no indication how they ended up in Gensokyo. SDM getting transported directly from Outside World is as valid as it getting transported from Outside World via Makai, since we have no definitive canon answer to the matter. SDM could've even traveled several countries (gathering their subordinates and connections) before entering Gensokyo. Everything is open

[Anonymous No.]

>>43114968
>It's also worth keeping in mind that Remilia specifically has outside world connections
Thats just Yukari, she is mindfull of request from the outside world, what enters and exit from the barrier, specially if is something that can be called a favor for one of the household matriarchs

[Anonymous No.]

>>43116629
I'm convinced that half of the 'powerful' youkai are actually just bullshitting most of the time, and shit can kinda just come and go with the right conditions. Other than Yuuka. Yuuka is the only one to always be playing around, no matter whats going on.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43078144
the irl historical person miko and futo is based on absolutely hated the shit out of each other, there's even theories that shotoku taishi was assasinated by the mononobe clan

[Anonymous No.]

>>43116700
no, but Futo is the traitorous Mononobe wife of Soga no Umako though

[Anonymous No.]

>>43116700
also another one. Yukari's name is based on Murasaki Shikibu, a famous heian era poet and lady-in-waiting in the imperial court. both also associated with the color purple.
i like to think that theyre both canonically the same person

[Anonymous No.]

>>43116658
I mean, we did see Kasen create a hole in the barrier in ULiL and the whole shenanigan about western dandelion in her own manga

[Anonymous No.]

>>43116629
>Thats just Yukari
That's literally headcanon, anon. It's said "The Mistress has her own routes" and there's genuinely nothing that indicates Yukari gives favors to... anyone, at all, not even Rinnosuke who she has a somewhat direct connection with.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43116980
>That's literally headcanon
almost everything can be considered headcannon without an explicit declaration by the cannon materials.
>The Mistress has her own routes
where does it is stated?, maybe i miss something...
>Rinnosuke who she has a somewhat direct connection with.
personally i dont think rinnosuke is on the same level, Remilia is the head of a household, a faction, it is stated that gensokyo works through bargain system instead of monetary, and favor are also political tools. hell Okina would take advantage, why not the gaphag?

it begs the question, who is the contact of remilia in the outside who got her chupacabra? in Mexico of all places?

[Anonymous No.]

>>43117313
The cartel use Remy as a way to cleanly get rid of rivals.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43086005
Harm? Probably. Kill? No, definitely not. Most youkai are spiritual creatures through and through, killing them physically doesn't mean they die permanently. Most of them are abstract creatures that was born through just thought alone.
Each Youkai type have weaknesses you'd have to exploit to kill them permanently.
This is even shown in WaHH. Kasen straight up dies at the end it, shown to be disintegrating, but she revives completely.

I said, "most, though. There is an exception to that, mainly being beast youkai, as they were once living animals just turned humanoid. They're still pretty much a physical creature. I'd actually imagine Tsukomogami work the same way, being that they're physical objects turned living. They're not as abstract.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43117313
>almost everything can be considered headcannon without an explicit declaration by the cannon materials.
Is this supposed to be an excuse in a lore thread where the idea is to post evidence?

[Anonymous No.]

Some people are still confused as to how Hecatia can possibly be the strongest 2hu with her stated lame power, so let me answer that.
In Touhou, a historical figure is almost 1:1 to their irl counterpart unless otherwise stated. It makes perfect sense, as Touhou is rooted in our real world.
And Hecate and Hecatia are basically the same person. So who is Hecate?
She's a minor Greek goddess, but don't let that "minor" fool you. That just means she's not an Olympian, there are a couple of minor gods that are stronger than the major Olympian gods. Hecate, while one of the more niche Greek goddesses, is arguably one of them.
Here's a list of some things:
- She's the goddess of witchcraft and magic itself, alongside other domains like necromancy, boundaries, and the moon (lol). That's right, she's the goddess of magic itself.
- Hecate is a titan, and is the only titan to still retain her control when Zeus reigned. She's also older than him.
- Afaik, she's the only other god besides Zeus himself to have domain over all realms. She was the only goddess that could ignore his decrees to go whereever the fuck she wanted. Zeus actually respected the goddess, which is somewhat of a rarity.
- She's a virgin

>>43087265
Fairies aren't youkai and don't follow the same rules. 99% of Youkai are malicious beings, Fairies are just retarded. I imagine a go-shintai won't hurt fairies unless Reimu intends it to.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43117313
>where does it is stated?, maybe i miss something...

[Anonymous No.]

>>43117313
>personally i dont think rinnosuke is on the same level
It doesn't matter what you think https://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Curiosities_of_Lotus_Asia/Chapter_11

[Anonymous No.]

>>43119333
Hecate also is protector of vulnerable, weak and those in need. Which almost same domains that Okina has. They are very different beings and has different approaches/aspects but simultaneously Hecatia and Okina seems eerily similar

[Anonymous No.]

>>43119336
Doesn't this imply that Remilia is in contact with the European version of Gensokyo or at least youkai who would live there?
I wonder if ZUN intended there to be pockets like Gensokyo all over the globe, but forgot or didn't want to explore those since he wanted to build 東方Project and not 北方Project.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43114784
Interesting idea, that could work. For example Kutaka is a god created by the faith of wild chickens.
Did some research, and found out that Tsukumogami are considered as "kami" and part of the Eight Million Gods. If some tsukumogami, for example Medicine, gathered enough faith, fear or respect on her, it would create an incident and threaten the humans

[Anonymous No.]

>>43119849
youkai exist in our reality in touhou canon. Mamizou is a youkai from the Outside World

ZUN is implying chupacabras are real

[Anonymous No.]

Lorely speaking, does Orin make that cat grrrr inner sound in her hoomie form? You know the sound cats make when they sleep

[Anonymous No.]

If gods need faith to exist and youkai need fear, then what do fairies need?

[Anonymous No.]

>>43120579
She is a cat, so yes.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43120598
Fairies need nature to exist. More specifically, fairies are the visual representation of nature's life force around them. This life force may be of several types, and not only verdant lush plants, as there are fairies in Hell and in Makai.
That makes fairies unique in that they don't need humans to exist.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43120611
But then why are there no fairies in the lunar capital and outside world? Are those places exceptions?

[Anonymous No.]

>>43120650
>lunar capital
lifeless
>outside world
doesn't believe in fairies

[Anonymous No.]

>>43097368
You know, like real life.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43121389
I consider grimsokyo fags to be worse because
A) No, they really are cute girls
B) Beyond the mention of eating outsiders, no actual harm ever seems to come to humans
C) they ignore basic facts and logic to push their edgy emo interpretation while pishing it as canon.

Wheras cutesokyo is just annoying and naive.

[Anonymous No.]

Grimsokyo is usually edgy for no reason and just relies on shock value and doesn't use the tools it has.
Cutesokyo is much harder to do badly, so of course it is more toleratable but I could not stomach only non-h yuri doujins or bland slice of life doujins with nothing happening.
Also both ignore basic facts about the setting, cutesokyo usually completely ignores them as it pleases and grimsokyo triest to twist them into something retarded.

Both also have good examples and I'd rather people bring those up if they must continue this millenia old dick measuring contest rather than "thing me not like bad"
Because at the end of the day, both sides are just showcasing something they love about Touhou Project.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43121389
Real life is Gensokyo?!?

[Anonymous No.]

>>43122078
There are a couple fanworks I like that would probably fall within the grimsokyo definition, actually now I think about it.
It's just the shit anons post is top tier cancer.
The best way about it is to try and not overdo it, making KOGASA of all 'hus "scary" by applying the .exe creepypasta filter on it.
I'd agree with cutesokyo being just as annoying though, moe through the ears starts to piss me off, only surpassed by yuri, and if a thing has yuri, it's going to have a LOT of yuri in touhou
If you're interested as to what I mean, and have a day or so to kill, look up "average man's trip to Gensokyo" on AO3.
It's not the *best*, but it's pretty good, and is generally well written.
It's actually why I like Rumia so much. And then I made the mistake of watching osana reimu not long after. Wasn't the best choice.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43121471
Tell me you are a secondary that doesn't read the canon doujins without telling me you are a secondary that doesn't read the canon doujins

[Anonymous No.]

>>43122993
Tell me you aren't a grimsokyo apologist without saying you are a grimsokyo apologist, faggot.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43122993
>>43123176
Get a room you two

[Anonymous No.]

The problem with Grimsokyo stories usually isn't the setting, it's the OOC writing. Characters never really act "edgy" or "dark" in canon Gensokyo, but they're amped up to be super murderer serial killers in Grimsokyo.
Death is a constant in the setting, but rather than that be a focal point, it's treated with insignificance, simply because it's a constant and many living in the world have gotten used to it.
In anime standards, a lot of grimsokyo stories treats many 2hus like they are Ghouls from Tokyo Ghoul. Youkai in 2hu are a bit more nuanced than "me eat human crave yum farm human".

[Anonymous No.]

>>43123380
Yep. As i mentioned in >>43122182, the last grimsokyo thread had people seriously defending creepy kogasa as canon.
Kogasa.
The youkai so harmless she was employed as a babysitter, and is so bad at scaring people she gets depressed over it.
The fact is, most of the 2hu's are written by zun to be likeably unlikeable. Yuugi's another one, she's always seen to be easygoing and carefree, but one of the most popular set of images as "proof" that she must be scary is the fact that in fanon she's pretty tall, and she's an oni. Sure, if you got her mad she'd be terrifying, but how exactly are you going to do that? You can't hurt her, she's probably not the type to feel too insulted, and it's not like she's territorial or anything. She only "attacks" you in SA because she's bored and practising her fighting technique to not spill from her dish. Is that the behaviour of a homocidal demon? No. And apart from joke characters (sorry Rumia), none of the 2hu's appear to be that pissed at humans, apart from maybe medicine, but she's pretty docile in her field.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43123380
Read zounose doujins, read the "canni-chan" and "last supper" ones

[Anonymous No.]

I just want to see youkai acts like youkai instead of generic monster girl #27172536262

[Anonymous No.]

>>43125317
Anon, are you aware of what the term "Youkai" means?

[Anonymous No.]

>>43125328
>Yōkai (妖怪, "strange apparition") are a class of supernatural entities and spirits in Japanese folklore. The word yōkai is a loanword from the Chinese term yaoguai and is composed of the kanji for "demon; fairy; sprite" and "suspicious; apparition; monster; ghost; spectre"[1][2]

[Anonymous No.]

>>43125317
So go read FS.
It has a lot of youkai that didn't transition into a cute girl and stuck to being some spooky supernatural being.

[Anonymous No.]

can youkai eat each other?

[Anonymous No.]

>>43078144
Where do the 2hous get their fancy hats and dresses? it would be extremely hard to make them at technological level of Gensokyo, specially purple.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43127735
Nitori can make robots and a camo device, and there's a huge ass nuclear reactor in use by Kanakp. The color purple pales in comparison.
Youkai enjoy far greater technology levels than humans. There's zero reason for them to limit their tech outside of it might get leaked.
Humans are the ones that get shit tech.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43119849
More than likely she has ties to an American connection. The reason I think this is due to the fact that in EoSD, one of Sakuya's spell cards has the picture of the Astronomical clock in Prague, which would relate to the European side, but more specifically is the other spell card that has an inversed image of an American made Elgin pocket watch of Father Time or Veritas overlaid with a dial face of an Elgin model. Based on this, either Zun looked up some cool watches or Sakuya has an American made watch that is either imported or purchased/found/stolen/etc from around the 1850s to 1921 at the latest. Another prospect would be the historical accounts of vampire-like beings recorded in both the early US colony days, tied with the accounts spreading into South America around where the Chupacabra picks up. It's also known that tales of vampires from the Old World were carried over into the Southern territories of the New World, mainly in Louisiana where it was considered a vampire haven and even known in some circles as the vampire capitol of the South. My headcanon so far is that because of Remilia's long life and perpetual boredom, she pulled a Dracula and traveled at low tide to the New World after the whole French Revolution chased certain types of beings into a potentially safer place. You could even tie Meiling into this due to the Sino-French war in the late 1800s. Maybe seeing the Chinese in America somehow caused the SDM to head to China, where Meiling got picked up in Shanghai before they all collectively took off to Japan.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43127735
A lot of the dresses are Japanese, Chinese or Western, so with the right materials, they can be made easily (cotton, silk). Maybe they recycle the clothing that get spirited away to Gensokyo, and use even the scraps, like zippers and buttons.
A lot of 2hus that get transported to Gensokyo (SDM and Moriyas for example) have their original clothing from their original realm on, so they need to just fix their old clothes to keep wearing them. They could've just gotten those clothes by different means in their original realms, like Hecatia's T-shirt. And like your purple example, the purple clothes could've been made in Outside World, from where it then transferred to Gensokyo.
Or, clothing generates on youkai as legends and fear start accumulating to them and finally creates them. Clothes serve as the avatar or the persona linked to the youkai and it's abilities, which becomes their status symbol. Yukari's purple colour comes because she's in a very high position (but the Outside World example can still apply).
As for hats, they probably came on with their owners or spirited away to Gensokyo, from where the 2hu picked it up for her own use, like Koishi could've done.

>>43128507
Whatever happened to Rika and Rikako? Weren't the Gensokyo humans allowed to progress in tech field? Uh oh, this sounds like a Grimsokyo headcanon

[Anonymous No.]

>>43123448
>The youkai so harmless she was employed as a babysitter, and is so bad at scaring people she gets depressed over it.
Motherfucker, READ THE PRINT WORKS.
>Someone that goes around startling children is not much of a babysitter and, I'm afraid to say, can only be seen as a simple deviant. In fact, bulletins warning about her are currently being circulated among human parents.
Quoting her Bunbunmaru article from the Symposium, before you inevitably ask.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43123448
Yuugi is basically yakuza gang leader. She is easygoing and frivolous but still will punch you in to mush if sees need in that so she IS scary as any cheery ganger would be

[Anonymous No.]

>>43129288
Yeah. She IS scary *when you piss her off*, but that's pretty hard to do.
Bearing in mind that's like a full oni party out there, anything short of massive violence beyond the scale of what's normal and fun isn't going to phase them.
>>43129172
Still harmless, anon.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43129172
Why would you ever believe anything written in Aya's shitty rag? Akyuu lists her as having a high level of human friendliness, and she recommends that the villagers just go along with being "scared" so Kogasa won't start sulking.
The parents were probably just warning each other about her incredibly affordable rates.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43129172
Note this quote implies that she was still employed at this point, and ignoring the fact that it was written by Aya,
>Despite her rough history, her personality is good-natured and friendly. She often goes to the village to surprise humans, and even though she is hated by adults, it seems as if umbrellas with eccentric designs are unexpectedly popular among children
she was just a dork and couldn't even spook the kids, the adults just hate fun
Also, what are you trying to prove with this?

To go away from this discussion, this video showcases the Tatara furnace, Kogasa's namesake, in action.
It's pretty interesting and I recommend you give it a shot even if you can't understand Japanese
https://youtu.be/bs-T5qYA1Qg

[Anonymous No.]

>>43128648
It's more than likely that Remi travels the globe with her mansion and she started from Europe and this is just her most recent stop. She is just so spoiled that she took the whole mansion with her.
Also it's one of the few ways she could feasibly force Patchy to travel with her.
More evidence of this are Gungnir and Lævateinn as she more than likely got them by visiting up north.
Meiling also is part of this collection and serves as double duty being the Chinese show piece and door stopper.

Assuming this is just what Remi does, is she planning on taking something from Gensokyo before she moves again?
And a slightly related question is, was Sakuya taken from Japan?

[Anonymous No.]

>>43129315
>>43129340
>>43129343
Harmless ≠ scary
She WAS scary anon, her debut game literally shows that she's regret that youkai aren't feared like they used to be anymore, probably because of the massive girlification of youkai in Gensokyo. Kogasa isn't a new youkai born yesterday, she's quite an old youkai, and I'm pretty sure she would revert back as an umbrella ages ago if she's so bad at scaring people since her "birth" as a youkai
For fuck sake, I don't get why you fags hates youkai ACTS like an actual youkai

[Anonymous No.]

>>43129505
I don't get why you fags are trying to make the literal worst youkai at scaring things a postergirl for grimsokyo.
And bearing in mind, she's basically starving all the time as a result of being so harmless, not to mention people have to PRETEND to be scared of her.
The worst she can manage is to mildly startle someone, and that quote is her whining that she actually has to try now, and can't.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43129530
Are you just arguing for arguments sake?

[Anonymous No.]

>>43129564
No I argue because I'm bored and am pissed off by grimsokyo fags insisting it's canon when it so isn't.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43129530
>I don't get why you fags are trying to make the literal worst youkai at scaring things a postergirl for grimsokyo
Isn't that Rumia, Koishi, and/or Flandre?
>she's basically starving all the time as a result of being so harmless
>that quote is her whining that she actually has to try now, and can't
Because youkai didn't LOOKS scary anymore, even human villager nowadays don't give a shit anymore that a fucking oni is in the village
Cutesokyo fags get the rope

[Anonymous No.]

>>43129574
The closest to grimsokyo in canon is probably just how many of the youkai lack real purpose and will probably end up disappearing, since their sustenance now effectively derives from a system that's just a pretense, and the villagers feel less and less genuine fear of the youkai as they're increasingly accepted.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43129602
There is a godamn middle ground between cutesokyo and grimsokyo.
Your faggot ass fanon is terrible, and barely pays attention to the scource material. Kogasa was never scary, she was always a weird looking umbrella.
And I swear to god, if you bitch and moan about "muh printworks" without going into more detail, i'll consider your opinion invalidated.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43129574
If arguing against a field of scarecrows works for you I guess.
Kogasa doesn't even have that many grim takes to her and >>43129505 pointing out that Kogasa was indeed seen as scary way back when is in no way portraying her as some poster girl for grimsokyo.

>>43129505
>For fuck sake, I don't get why you fags hates youkai ACTS like an actual youkai
Kogasa is a Tsukumogami, they are both helpful and harmful completely based on their mood. Her surprising people and helping them by babysitting and being a smith completely fall under how a youkai like her should act.
Kogasa laments that she can't easily get a kick out of scaring people anymore because she likes doing that and times have changed even in Gensokyo.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43129602
>>43129657
You both are insufferable, go make a new thread to argue in and leave this one.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43129694
no.

[Anonymous No.]

This thread shows good evidence on how petty and sensitive cutesokyofags can be, keep it up OP, this is why they fear lore threads

[Anonymous No.]

all my 2hus hate cutesokyo and grimsokyo
gensokyo is where its at

[Anonymous No.]

>>43129720
You can say the exact same thing about grimsokyo fags.
Also, i'm not a cutesokyo fag. I just think grimsokyo is needlessly edgy and emo, to the point of just being gay as hell.
If you are going to do something generically within the term of grimsokyo, at least put effort into it. Anons here don't put any effort in, and just circlejerk about how cucked they think the HV is.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43129733
I have yet to see any grimsokyofag act as immature as cutesokyofags by saying "HURR DURR GENSOKYO IS LE DARK AND YOUKAI BUTCHER EVERYONE"
All in all everything point to the opposite direction where cutesokyofags are the immature ones

[Anonymous No.]

i just wanted to talk about kogasa's origins...

[Anonymous No.]

>>43129749
That is pretty much exactly what they do, anon.
In fact, that's the only thing I seem to hear them say outside of defending how that's totally 100% canon

[Anonymous No.]

>>43129757
Has there been any other instance of a youkai becoming a new one?
From Tsukumogami that looks like an Ippon Datara to actually posessin the powers of one is a pretty drastic change.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43129807
The only character that perfectly fits that description (that is not a youkai) is Kanako, who is essentially just a god changing her customer base. Perhaps you could count the kappa as a whole turning from river butt ball stealing monkeys to industrialized butt ball stealing

[Anonymous No.]

>>43129863
Ah, Shou is another example.
Humans becoming Youkai could be third, but I feel that is a slightly different thing.
Gods can change things with more ease I feel, but Kogasa is the only one who doesn't rely on faith out of these examples.

[Anonymous No.]

As I sent here >>43129343
The Tatara furnace is essentially a bloomery made to smelt iron sand into large chunks (blooms) of steel which are called tamahagane (jewel steel). Iron sand was used as it was one of the very few options on their shitty island.
This tamahagane can be said to be shittier when compared to European steel at the time due to where it came from. Japanese swordsmiths used tamahagane for smithing swords, but the swords were of lower quality due to the amount of impurities contained in them. This is where the "le japanese katan folded 1000x" came from, they folded the tamahagane to get rid of most impurities contained within them. This process turned what was essentially useless and dull into something renowned across the world
https://youtu.be/gxwWf-MfZVk
This is a great video for those who want to learn more about it. After understanding this whole process, I came to understand the inspiration of Kogasa wanting to turn from a useless thrown umbrella to something useful for people to use and appreciate. I don't know whether this was intentional by ZUN but I still feel like this is something to account for when you see the cheery forgotten umbrella.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43129343
>Also, what are you trying to prove with this?
That Kogasa was never employed by anyone as a babysitter. Yes, she's popular with kids due to her "eccentric looks", but all the parents are aware of is that they're being warned not to let her near those children.

No matter how cute she looks in art, she's still a youkai. She still abides by her instincts. If you want a truly odd youkai that doesn't fit the classic label, try Sekibanki.

[Anonymous No.]

Mystia Izakaya is the best game when it comes to character portrayals

[Anonymous No.]

>>43130552
Is that the game where the characters spew internet memes masquerading as humour?

[Anonymous No.]

>>43128866
Anon, are you really bringing up PC-98 characters to suggest tech levels of the human village pales in comparison to Youkai...?

[Anonymous No.]

>>43130621
those were long removed

[Anonymous No.]

>>43129490
Considering her and her sister come from Europe, with them both having ties to French territory, that makes sense about the weapons. The Normans are related to the Vikings with Rollo the Red when Normandy was founded. A possibility is that the legend of the weapons ended up manifesting in the area for a few hundred years until around the Renaissance, when Europe was interested in the old, pre-Christian beliefs, and with Remilia known for being more physical and prone to brawling, one could see her picking a fight with who or whatever was holding the Gungnir. Same for Flandre, with her name being from French Flanders. Patchouli's magic style and dress would have put her at the later periods of the magical revival when everyone in Europe had an interest in alchemy and magical teachings from the "East", with Chaldean styled workings that eventually led her into working with the Classical Elementals, which in turn led her to studying about the elements of the far East. If anything, Patchouli probably had more to do with them traveling in the direction of Japan, with Remilia just happy to be traveling. As for Sakuya, she's the head scratcher for everyone. She's a Belmont/Joestar proxy that may or may not have ties to Jack the Ripper, with an American pocket watch from around the 1800s to early 1900s, and a spell card of a historical place in Prague....

[Anonymous No.]

>>43130975
I'd say Remy was of Anglo-Norman descent.
She's clearly western, and in FS can at least write in English. (Whether or not she can write in Japanese, and was just flexing on Kosuzu is another matter)
English was never the language of the nobility, by the time that English had become the dominant global language the aristocracy had long since ceased to be.
This can be explained by Remy simply picking it up, but it would make more sense for it to be her native language, perhaps supplemented by French and Latin, as was common a few hundred years ago, as Remy doesn't seem the type to have the patience to learn a language generally regarded as more lower class than french would be.
Also, the spelling of scarlet that's agreed upon is English, not french. Escarlette would be french, and even through going through the japanizing filter, that would still preserve the intial E. Hence, we can only assume that it never had an E in the first place. And the distinction of anglo-norman is both historically accurate, and would help explain where Gungir and Laevatinn came from. Perhaps they were family heirlooms from Scandinavia?
That's about as far as I'm willing to speculate, though.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43130675
Not to make youkai go pale, but to show that there once was rather modern technology among Humans. Rika built a tank, so humans at least had the capability to defend themselves with tech. But in current Human Village, the tech has degraded to being just everyday tools. There aren't many humans who can even use tech from Outside World, Rinnosuke being the exception.
It's either related to how Spell Card rules came to being, and defend tech wasn't needed anymore (but how many humans can use Spell Cards?). Or, if we go the Grimsokyo route, human technicians were "erased", in favour not to let humans progress anymore

[Anonymous No.]

>>43129863
Wait wait isn't Tsukumogami are gods of specific object? So technically they are under godhood mechanics?

[Anonymous No.]

So what do we know about heaven and the celestials?

[Anonymous No.]

is there any painter touhou or one related to cephalopods

[Anonymous No.]

>>43133356
Yes, they are apart of the Eight Million Shinto Gods. I'm not so sure about them following the godhood mechanics but I'm going to assume that they do. That can also explain how Raiko managed to change her old taiko drum

[Anonymous No.]

>>43134227
>painter touhou
Literally Shizuha
Maybe Keiki
>related to cephalopods
No but for sea creatures, Eika is related to jellyfish for some reason

[Anonymous No.]

>>43133950
Celestial flesh is deadly to youkai
Celestials are true immortals, but presumably can be killed by kishin given Tenshi still sees them as a threat. As far as we know, kishin are never assigned to kill celestials.
Hermits can become celestials through training
You can become a celestial via blessing/ascension while human, even if you personally have done nothing to get there.
Heaven is full of peaches. They only eat peaches in heaven.
There is no physical or magical barrier to Heaven. If you travel above Youkai Mountain, you will find heaven there.
A good, dead soul can transcend to Heaven after death/reincarnation, however Heaven has been lying about the availability of its lands and has been refusing new entries into the realm

[Anonymous No.]

Only cute 2hu girls live in Gensokyo's heaven because that is the ideal

[Anonymous No.]

>>43137896
Oh right, and how could I forget?

This is canon
Bored/horny celestial maidens somewhat commonly drop their heavenly veils to earth. If a human man picks it up but is unattractive/ugly, they will basically ignore the guy. If a human man picks it up and is hot/good-looking, they force the man into marriage.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43137896
Oh, right, Komachi claims that celestials are hunted, but we've never seen that + Komachi DOES perpetuate lies about shinigami and immortals

[Anonymous No.]

>>43137877
>Shizuha
>paints each leaf by hand
>goes around kicking trees
wow she's a bigger autist than I made her out to be

[Anonymous No.]

>>43137906
>>43137896
In addition: Celestials claim that heaven is full, which is why no more Celestials are being accepted, but in reality they just don't want a bigger crowd up there with them.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43141063
I didn't know Celestial are just sky Australian

[Anonymous No.]

>>43141063
"I've spent the last sixty years studying, practicing, and meditating dilligently, non-stop, every day, over and over again. Surely this must qualify me for Heaven now!"

"Fuck off, we're full."

[Anonymous No.]

>>43141063
I mentioned >>43137896
>Heaven has been lying about the availability of its lands and has been refusing new entries into the realm

[Anonymous No.]

>>43078144
if youkais and gods exist due faith and believe of humans, could you gaslight yourself into becoming a youkai or god by simply believing it hard enough?

[Anonymous No.]

>>43155392
That's technically what happened to Sanae. She's a normal human with divine heritage, but the way it works is that if people stopped believing in her powers she would just default to a young woman that has greenish hair. The other two goddesses would fade away, or more accurately "go to sleep" until they could be called back into a physical form. They exist due to belief, but only have actual bodies that can be interacted with due to strong faith.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43155392
Sure, there even was a human villager who managed to do that.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43155631
>human villager
You mean filthy betrayer of his kin?

[Anonymous No.]

>>43129749
i've seen that many times anon, it's just /jp/ has more cutesokyofags than other boards and sites

[Anonymous No.]

>>43122078
Both Grimsokyo and cutesokyo give personality to the franchise. It's like ying yang.

[Anonymous No.]

Is Kanako's steel that good?

[Anonymous No.]

>>43159636
what the hell is a ying?

[Anonymous No.]

>>43159636
>>43159636
Cutesokyo is literally barely real. I would say it's more Grimsokyo and Toonsokyo. The world is very, very rarely actually cute. I feel like I may be able to count cute canonical moments across 20+ years of Touhou on one hand. However, goofiness is all over the goddamn place shot for shot with grim reality. The series is EXTREMELY silly and flippant, full of complete asshole selfish characters--including the heroes who you can just barely call heroes for they are hardly ever heroic. The idea of "And everyone drinks tea afterward XD" doesn't even fucking happen outside of, I think, maybe EoSD. Most of the time the final boss performs a home invasion on the Shrine or on Marisa's house in the ending, irritates the heroine to no end, refuses to elaborate and presumably leaves. But cute stuff? Uhhh... Reimu and Marisa find a sea lion or whatever and they think he's cute. Marisa puts flowers on her hat, pretty cute... When they aren't being a bunch of menaces, fairies may possibly have 2 or 3 cute moments, especially when drunk. I honestly think that might be it. Speaking of drunk? Remember how Reimu and Marisa canonically spent an afternoon catching rodents and forcing them to drink booze because Remilia told them tupai like sake and that intrigued them enough to harass woodland creatures for a day? Or how the three fairies bombed the shrine by hiding explosions in snowmen. Or there was that time Remilia decided she wants to invade the moon so she had her hag witch friend build a ramshackle rocket.

That's Toonsokyo.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43128866
Yukari’s purple also comes from the fact her name means purple lol

[Anonymous No.]

>>43161912
I have different definitions of cute than you do but I also like how silly it gets so that's fair

[Anonymous No.]

So how do you defy grim, and how much of it needs to be in the canon for Grimsokyo to be a thing?

[Anonymous No.]

>>43161912
That is cute as hell
Cute isn’t just kawaii stuff

[Anonymous No.]

>>43162397
Gensokyo isn't grim.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43165626

[Anonymous No.]

>>43162424
It's frankly demented. Anyone who did this in reality would be justifiably arrested.

>>43162346
Physically speaking you'd be hard-pressed to find a not-cute major Touhou character. Even Rinnosuke and Unzan can be construed as cute. That said, if the idea is "cute in setting and in premises/occurrences", there really isn't much to work. K-ON this is not

[Anonymous No.]

>>43165781
I forgot which one, but it was one of the earliest chapters of the Fairies manga. The village was being terrorized by some rabid wolf, and it killed a few people before it got turned into a village guardian.
Going outside the village is dangerous in Gensokyo, and it isn't always the youkai that will ruin your day.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43167043
They should've just prepared the proper anti-dog countermeasures. Dumb villagers had it coming.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43167043
I didn't know Kagerou was a bad girl...

[Anonymous No.]

>>43167673
well, she is

Unrelated to that she is heavily implied to be a human-eating youkai

[Anonymous No.]

If a youkai was isekai'd to the outside world would it still exist or retain its powers?

[Anonymous No.]

>>43167698
If you mean the Wakasagihime incident, wouldn't that be because Waka is a fish? The Honshu wolf lived around bodies of water, meaning it isn't inconceivable it ate fish as part of its diet.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43167730
No, I mean how she wants to eat people

[Anonymous No.]

>>43168235
Isn't this literally just a riff on Werewolf?

Regardless, she could eat people. It's hard to say. She was described as mostly harmless in the lorebooks.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43165781
Honestly, growing up in gensokyo really must suck.

>>43161912
Touhou can best be explained as a wacky comedy about a murderous dictatorship shot from the perspective of people in charge of the dictatorship.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43168613
indeed, which is what makes DDC especially great, wherein they cop to this completely and defeat the LITERAL "little man" because they prefer to rule by power

>>43168604
It is, yes. I think Kagerou is implied to be weak and therefore largely harmless (hence joining a grassroots youkai network), but she IS a werewolf. Classically, those are trouble.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43168636
I mean, that's mostly just Sakuya. Reimu is too dumb and Marisa actually has something resembling morals if you cornered her.

I always assumed Kagerou is mostly harmless. Though, if she is a werewolf it's possible she's killed people.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43168661
>I mean, that's mostly just Sakuya. Reimu is too dumb and Marisa actually has something resembling morals if you cornered her.
No I mean when Shinmyoumaru calls them out they go "Yeah, what about it? I'm strong, you're weak, get fucked kid". Reimu, Marisa, AND Sakuya all say this.

This is also always specifically in the B route, where they are not corrupted by their haywire tools.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43168722
Yes, but Marisa does actually seem to have more altruistic reasons. Considering Seija made it pretty clear not much would change for the humans of Gensokyo. It's still hardly heroic, but compared to Reimu's usual "It's the law so shut up" and Sakuya openly saying she's a collaborator it does as usual make her out as the one person with something resembling morality. Selfish morality, but still morality.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43168764
Marisa is indeed one of the few seemingly "good-hearted" heroines in the series, as much as you can be. Youmu and Reisen also come to mind, as characters who take action specifically because they recognize a danger or threat.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43168786
She is still a bit of a tsundere about it. But, it's pretty clear that at the end of the day she does actually have a good heart. Youmu as well, even if Yuyuko is... odd and befriended a child serial killer. Reisen got there eventually, even if she started off as kind of a twat who only cared for herself.

Sanae is a complicated case. Though, for what it's worth, I don't think she's bad intentioned. Just very spoiled.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43168809
Sanae is a good, dutiful girl.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43168818
Yeah, but she's also a spoiled twat. Her mentality towards Gensokyo is basically that of a white British imperialists. She's the only one who can lead these simple savages to enlightenment and happiness. It doesn't help that neither Kanako or Suwako could care less.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43168840
I wouldn't treat her as any particularly bad case. At first, yes, she was rude and bullheaded, but ever since all she really does is follow the plans and commands of her gods.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43168863
Like I said though, her gods aren't particularly nice. I agree that's not a particularly bad case though, compared to Sakuya she's a saint. She's mostly just complicated, which is why I can't really say she has a bad or good heart. If nothing else she does mean well.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43168884
Sanae is super popular in the human village.
She knows how to sell herself really well, it's the kind of PR that Reimu can't compete with.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43078144
since the barrier is not an physical barrier, and Gensokyo is still technically inside the real word, could you get internet on gensokyo through sattellite or radio signals?

[Anonymous No.]

How male onis COPE over YUUGI being the STRONGEST oni in the ENTIRE Gensouland

[Anonymous No.]

>>43171623
by overnumbering and gangraping her.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43171365
No

[Anonymous No.]

>>43078144
I am new to touhou, any tips on where to start on the franchise?

[Anonymous No.]

>>43171742
games. they all also have a prologue too but they do not come with the games so you need to google them. also depending where you download it from a pdf with it may also come. on oldgamesdownload it came with the prologue of th7.

also start with touhou 6. the creator of the games ignores th1-5 so you should too.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43171742
The games, starting from the 6th one, Embodiment of Scarlet Devil. If you find the games too frustrating you can always read the manga and print works and look up the endings to the games.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43086098
Gonna be honest, Demoman from TF2 would make a fantastic opponent from Suika. While I don't think there's any way he could kill her, he has plenty of excellent tools- such as the Eyelander- that he could use to put her down in a fight. And then drink all of her sake, because of course that's why they're fighting.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43172458
Demoman is just genderbent black suika and you all know it.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43172458
What would be demoman's spellcards?

[Anonymous No.]

>>43171996
>>43172145
Thanks, I will look up these.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43171742
While 6 is commonly recommended and it's where I started, bear in mind that 6 is rather rough around the edges for many reasons. If you want a very "basic" Touhou experience, I'd suggest starting with either 7 or 14. Both are fairly easy and straightforward games. Why 14? 14, despite taking place late into the series, basically stands on its own in terms of plot. Jumping into it as a game to get your sea legs is, in my opinion, a valid thing to do.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43154300

[Anonymous No.]

>>43173911
I HATE YOUKAI

[Anonymous No.]

>>43078539
They are non spells

[Anonymous No.]

>>43086920
I think Remilia is lying about crosses to hide one more of her weaknesses.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43095313
They bring funny things

[Anonymous No.]

>>43123282
And make it for 3

[Anonymous No.]

>>43095313
there are few people on gensokyo, every body knows it each other too so when someone news appears its a rare event, specially someone who managed to reach the village without getting eaten at forest.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43095313
If they become celebrities, how come we never hear of one? Not even a minor, nameless one in manga? Especially considering that, according to PMiSS more and more outsiders decide to stay in Gensokyo rather than go back.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43183772
Sumireko became one....

[Anonymous No.]

>>43183772
A lot of them killed themselves over the lack of internet

[Anonymous No.]

>>43183772
The series is about girls fighting with lasers nobody cares about Joe Average bringing football into Gensokyo

[Anonymous No.]

>>43172145
>look up the endings to the games

[Anonymous No.]

>>43172145
Don't teach him how to be a secondary

[Anonymous No.]

>>43189422
Watching replays is recommenced to beat the games.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43157399
>betrayer of his kin
You mean guy who realized the reality of his former situation as memetic cattle for supernatural creatures who are centuries past their expiration date and decided to improve his situation within a system designed to fuck him over, he even promised he won't harm any human, but that agent of the status quo, Reimu, killed him in cold blood anyways.
Now, who's the real bad guy here?

[Anonymous No.]

>>43183772
They assimilate themselves to the Human Village, if they decide to stay. A lot of these outsiders are normal people, so they get their 15 minutes of fame and then disappear to the masses

[Anonymous No.]

>>43173911
another win for humanity

[Anonymous No.]

If you decide to stay after being given the oportunity to leave do the rules of spellcard now applies to you too or only to born natives?

[Anonymous No.]

Regarding to >>43173911 , what do you think is the end game for youkai? I'm talking about the "ultimate goal of the youkai", mentioned in WaHH.

We know very well youkai eat humans and live out of the humans' fear in order for them to survive. However, a lot of outsiders are able to escape from Gensokyo and therefore youkai won't always get fed. There might be some population balance problem behind the scenes we don't know about. Not enough humans to sustain fear for youkai or something like that. It would be necessary for youkai to figure out a plan B if things would go wrong.

In WaHH, Yukari sent zashiki-warashi into Outside World as spies for youkai, when she got the opportunity. Zashiki-warashi probably served as information sources of the current events and situation outside Gensokyo, which could come useful. My personal theory is that Yukari's plan B for youkai and Gensokyo is to assimilate them to the Outside World, modern Japan. Some youkai are still popular in modern Japan (oni, tengu, tanuki), but "lower-class youkai" (such as youkai born from long age) would need assistance in order for them to exist in Outside World. That would include customs and rules of modern society (though the big youkai could accustom themselves to them), where they wouldn't necessary be dependent on fear and eating human flesh. Yukari uses the info gathered by zashiki-warashi to sustain the existence of youkai and to maintain the balance between humans and youkai, even if the environment changes

[Anonymous No.]

>>43198063
These lines by Yukari might even suggest the destruction of human-youkai balance might be near, as there's not enough food for all youkai.

Or maybe this is just overthinking of few lines some character said in some canon work. Could be another lorebait from ZUN

[Anonymous No.]

i wonder if stuff like chupa cabra, the big foot, jersey devil etc could be considered a yokai and end up existing for real on 2hou's world due a lot of people beliving in them. What about religion and mithos? did zeus for example exist for real on ancient greek too?

[Anonymous No.]

>>43198099
i feel like if they break balance they might shoot themselfs on the foot honestly. the only reason the "balance" exists is due humans being kept on the dark and used as cattle. like its said on the games: today's world simply do not fear the dark anymore and the youkai are a product of their age.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43198963
Hecatia is based on Greek goddess anon

[Anonymous No.]

>>43198099
It might not be overthinking but it doesn't matter because ZUN will never ever deliver.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43198963
Urban legend/folklore creatures you mentioned have a high possibility to exist in Gensokyo (Chubacabra already lives in SDM). One notable example from Western creatures is The Loch Ness Monster, which appeared as Nitori's special attack in ULiL

[Anonymous No.]

>>43198063
This is gonna sound like ramblings from a conspiracy nut, but when you think about it, the Touhou series itself is a great plan B.
The globe-spanning fanbase generates enough belief to fulfill Gensokyo's spiritual food supply. Given how small the human village is, I wouldn't be surprised if all that faith far exceeds the needs of every youkai. They could be stockpiling it for all we know. Sure the flesh eaters still need meat, but spiriting away a few bodies is cakewalk compared to maintaining that massive faith inflow.
In that sense, ZUN has been in cahoots with them for awhile. They've been drip feeding him game plans and orchestrating the series to blow up since the beginning. No need to integrate with the outside world if you can just take advantage of how quickly info spreads here.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43209510
Maybe zun is a youkai himself too that needs beer to survive.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43198963
It does seem like everything and anything is free game as the only limitation is what humans can believe in.

[Anonymous No.]

If youkai eat and generally shun humans, then what's stopping them from exterminating all the humans in Gensokyo? What's the need to share their land with non youkai?

[Anonymous No.]

>>43210161
Also I know they need humans to believe in them, but my question would be if Gensokyo is supposedly a safe heaven for youkai then why are there humans there in the first place? If humans will still believe in them from the outside world

[Anonymous No.]

HOT TAKE: The lore killed my enjoyment of the games for me. The more i know about Gensokyo, the less i like it.

[Anonymous No.]

Remember that congolese river dinosaur monster Mokele-mbembe that showed uo that one time

[Anonymous No.]

>>43210161
>>43210174
Outside World humans believe only to popular youkai, like oni, tengu and tanuki, because how representative they are in modern Japan. Smaller youkai like tsukumogami that live out of folktales and horror stories would go extinct if there weren't a group of humans who feared/believed in them. The humans in Gensokyo live in Meiji era Japan, where they don't have access to modern technology or knowledge, which would debunk the existence of youkai.
Though, when Gensokyo humans can come up with a natural explanation to some phenomenon, it would affect the youkai responsible for the phenomenon. Kyouko is the youkai of echoes, but when Gensokyo humans started believing echoes are a natural thing, her race was at the brink of extinction. Kyouko could be the last member of her race. Even a goddess like Shizuha is low in faith because her "natural phenomenon" of colouring leaves isn't gathering much faith.
Exterminating all humans in Gensokyo would cause a major balance disruption, as the more "least concern" races like tengu and kappa would become dominant and threaten the "endangered" youkai. Gensokyo is meant to gather more not-feared and forgotten youkai and creatures, which would became a safe heaven for them as you said. But the safe heaven would need people in order to work as youkai naturally work.

tl;dr Old-fashioned youkai of natural phenomena and living objects need group of old-fashioned people believing in them. Gensokyo is the place for them to be, as it's basically "the old Japan" and free from modern conceptions, which would debunk the existence of youkai

[Anonymous No.]

>>43198063
You misread it. This is a highly context depending moment.

Kasen is referring to using zashiki warashi to find edible humans

[Anonymous No.]

>>43198063
>>43198099
actually looking at it again I don't know HOW you misread it

The chapter was about the goal of spying on outsiders

[Anonymous No.]

>>43212625
So you mean the zashiki-warashi were sent to Outside World to look for people that could be spirited away to Gensokyo? I remember reading somewhere on the wiki that the spirited-away humans are often suicidal and have nothing in their life, so them disappearing wouldn't be probably noticed. This way, Yukari mentioning food would make sense

[Anonymous No.]

>>43213697
yeah it was basically a "how do youkai get food" chapter

[Anonymous No.]

>>43213746
Ah, I see. Thanks anon for sharing the info

[Anonymous No.]

>>43086920
>>43093831
>>43180814
>>43087243
Crosses effect is stated to be related to giving a vampire pangs of conscience by reminding it what an abomination it has become. It doesn't work on Remilia since she lacks faith.

[Anonymous No.]

>>43218526
i always find that handwaving incredible retarded and a cope,Remilia doest'n give two shits about shinto, buddhism and taoism, and still take spiritual damage from yin yang orb, ofudas and goheis. flowing water is considered pure in shinto and is stated that their kind are weak to running water, but why will remilia care about the purity of water if she is irreligious?

[Anonymous No.]

>>43078144

[Anonymous No.]

>>43218859
Ok

[Anonymous No.]

>>43220482

[Anonymous No.]

ta

[Anonymous No.]

>>43210161
They die

[Anonymous No.]

Unrelated, but does anyone know where I can find complete scans of Ke-ta's stuff?