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/jp/ - Otaku Culture

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6263538 No.6263538 [Reply] [Original]

Can modern conventional weapons kill youkai?

You always hear about how youkai need to be killed with spiritual power or through weapons with history, but we've got confirmed moon rabbit casualties during the battles between Luna and Earth, and it's not like the astronauts had blessed silver bullets or something.

What do you think, /jp/?

>> No.6263541

Shoot them in the head.

>> No.6263545

we don't know what really happened in the moon to say the truth. They can be even lying, and touhous like to do that A LOT.

>> No.6263567
File: 17 KB, 500x400, 1207540558319.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
6263567

>>6263545
>Shikieiki (to Reisen): You bear a large sin. You abandoned your allies, letting them die, while you're the only one here living happily.

Are you calling Eiki a liar?

>> No.6263574

Oh sure let's combine coowadooty with töhö, amazing idea.

>> No.6263585

>>6263567
One Battle is not a whole War.

>> No.6263591

>>6263585
It still confirms the point I was trying to make, doesn't it? Namely, that rabbits were killed in the battle.

>> No.6263598

>>6263567
Eiki said that to just exaggerate her sin and make her reflect about it.

Reisen does not know what happened in the moon so it's okay to Eiki say something like that. Her job was to make everyone she was meeting to reflect upon their actions and repent their sins after all.

>> No.6263604

>>6263574
Ramirez could defeat Flandre. Because no one else is fucking going to.

>> No.6263615
File: 194 KB, 600x800, 87dd691ca4d3810015fe8ba0f1b40c28.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
6263615

>>6263591
everyone knows that Reisen is a traitor and a coward who ran away in the face of the enemy.
That happy face, that smile is just a facade. Every night she hears the cries and pleads of her allies as they are dying left and right. See their dying faces and their tears as they try to cling to life and ask for help.

>> No.6263617

>>6263598
Why wouldn't she know? She escaped from the front lines of the battle. She wouldn't have done that unless she was either scared of dying or was told to escape by her friends. Either way, things were going south for them, which wouldn't happen if the enemies weapons were ineffectual against them.

>> No.6263626

>youkai need to be killed with spiritual power
That always sounded like primitive peasant stories to me.
Think about it, we have a Touhou using nuclear energy. Why wouldn't other modern weapons work?

>> No.6263640

>>6263626
That's pretty much what I was thinking. Like when all the peasants had were swords and lumber axes and shit that really wouldn't work on youkai unless they had spiritual mojo.

Modern weapons > weapons with history > swords, axes, etc.

>> No.6263658

>>6263617
Reisen fled BEFORE the conflict. Not during it.

She don't what really happened, she just fled once she heard shit was real.

>> No.6263668

>>6263658
>On that day, a rabbit ran into their home. She claimed to be a rabbit from the moon who had come because she heard rumours about Gensokyo, a place where non-humans live. She then said, "Humans are invading the moon and it's becoming nearly impossible for people of the Moon to live there. These humans stuck a flag on the moon and are acting like the moon belongs to them".

>The rabbit had escaped from the front line of a war, leaving her allies behind...

There was an armed conflict between the humans and the Lunarians even before the war formally started.

>> No.6263673

ZUN said dankmaku is slower then gun fire, and that shotguns are the bane of any touhou.

>> No.6263683

>>6263673
Touhous would simply stop using it then and use their normal abilities.

>> No.6263686

>>6263668
Oh, and let's not forget this:

>"The tide of war is currently slightly in their favour... Their modern weaponry is far better than we expected.

>> No.6263690
File: 22 KB, 550x450, reimuboltaction.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
6263690

So humans claimed control of the earth with the power of guns?

I'm a little confused. Were youkai running around all over the place at one point before being forced away by humans? Just how numerous were youkai at thier peak?

>> No.6263700

>>6263690
ZUN never stated this. But yes, if you go with what everyone is saying humans grew too many in numbers so the Youkai either got killed, got fewer or went to places like Gensokyo.

>> No.6263701

>>6263690
Even before guns were around, humans were killing a metric ton of youkai.

The oni were forced to retreat underground because they were tired of their members getting duped and killed.

>> No.6263708

>>6263701
That's because as far as the oni were concerned, humans were something they had a fondness for watching grow stronger. Then humans started lying and being dishonest.

>> No.6263709

What if... we make blessed weapons and other similar things?

>> No.6263721

>>6263538
It's simple. Moon rabbits are not youkai.
>Can modern conventional weapons kill youkai?
Very likely, but a single bullet in the head won't do. Not all youkai have the same regenerative abilities.

>>6263598
Reisen is still in contact with the moon rabbits.

>> No.6263726
File: 431 KB, 600x800, c8a1aa116023580d451db7af925f19f4.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
6263726

>>6263701
>>6263708
Thanks for clearing that up. Why cant we all just get along?

>> No.6263730

>>6263709
now thats dangerous thinking

>> No.6263732
File: 273 KB, 502x708, 13ee4ec5260ce9b504b52b8a5502caca.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
6263732

>>6263709
Impossible. The outside world rejects the supernatural and will only become even grayer and devoid of imagination in the future.

>> No.6263740

>>6263721
>moon rabbit
>not a youkai

what.

>> No.6263743

>>6263740
they not youkai, technically.

They are a different kind, just like moon people are not youkai. Moon rabbits could be youkai of the moon, but considering how youkais of the earth were born being part of nature that doesn't sound very right.

>> No.6263744

>>6263726
Because humans don't take their family and friends being kidnapped and eaten as a game like the oni do.

>> No.6263746

>>6263743
And the moon isn't a part of nature?

>> No.6263748

>>6263746
No. The Moon is the Moon, the Earth is the Earth.

>> No.6263753

>>6263748
Okay, now you're just not making sense.

The Lunarians are just humans from Earth that migrated to the moon. Who's to say the moon rabbits aren't just the earth rabbits that they brought with them?

>> No.6263764

>>6263744
Well, there's a tale where two oni contest to see which one would destroy a village. However, they were equal in strength and wit, and couldn't beat one another. In between their frequent contests, they would discreetly watch the village and its people, and over the years they came to grow so fond of it that they gave up on their contest and became its protectors instead.

Gensokyo's oni look to be of this sort. Tough monster exterior, caring but distant relative personality inside.

>> No.6263769

>>6263753
Now you are just making shit up.

>> No.6263779

>>6263769
http://touhou.wikia.com/wiki/Cage_in_Lunatic_Runagate:_Third_Chapter

Who's making shit up?

>> No.6263780

>The people of the moon consider the Earth to be a place for the tainted to live, and it's said that they use the Earth as a prison for those who commit serious crimes.
The Earth is some kind of Australia.

>> No.6263784

>>6263753
Not the person you are replying to but that's a valid theory my friend. I'll keep it in mind.

>> No.6263799
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6263799

>Occasionally descending from the mountain, kidnapping humans and making off with sake, they thus threatened one's day-to-day life.
Onis are extremely dangerous. They steal all your sake, threatening your lifestyle like that. No wonder they must be killed.

>> No.6263806

>>6263799
That's a problem when you are an alcoholic. And we are talking about ZUN here.

>> No.6263808

>>6263799
well did they eat the humans or just keep them as pets?

>> No.6263810

>>6263799
I would make her wear deliciously frilly clothes and then listen to her drunken conversation.

>> No.6263820

>>6263808
Probably only males for mating. The Men were given no pause until they died totaly exhausted.

>> No.6263825

>>6263820
I'm OK with this.

>> No.6263828

>>6263820
Touhou logic - all oni are female.

>> No.6263830

>>6263721
Reisen refers to herself and Tewi as youkai in the Inaba manga.

>> No.6263847

>Always honoring their promises, they can think of no other way to behave than to be fair and square.
So if i have a fight with Suika and ask her to marry me if i win, would she keep the promise and be my wife?

>> No.6263850

>>6263830
everything that is not human is considered youkai there. People probably labeled them as youkai.

>> No.6263857

>>6263847
Sure, why not? You better have a good plan for that fight though.

>> No.6263858

>>6263847
She would be your wife, but that doesn't she would like your or not kill you, etc.

>> No.6263860
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6263860

>>6263830
>in the Inaba manga.

>> No.6263870

>>6263860
And? What ABOUT that page? She's confused about the term youkai because they don't use it on the moon. You're either a Lunarian or a moon rabbit.

If anything, that page proves that moon rabbits have an accelerated healing factor compared to humans.

>> No.6263872

>>6263858
It's okay. I don't want to ask her for sex or something. I would slowly make her love me with crazy contests and other crazy and fun things i do. Confess love, presents, best Alcohol i can find on this planet etc.

>> No.6263910

There was never any kind of armed conflict between moon and earth.

>The rumors had to do with the state of civil order in the lunar capital. They were all silly, baseless things, like "Someone is going to attack from the Earth", or "There's a traitor in the capital", but the rabbits were naive and loved rumors, so they believed them.

>the one thing the Lunarians fear the most is that the humans from Earth will find a way to get to the lunar capital. For now, all that's happened is the launch of a primitive rocket to the side of the moon closest to them, but we can't afford to be careless.

>> No.6263917

>>6263870
As if the Lunarians would keep impure monsters as pets.

>> No.6263966

>>626391

Way to interpret it wrong.

The "rumors" they were talking about wasn't related to the previous invasion by the Earth. It's a rumor that was started by Eirin through Reisen. The rocket they're talking about is Chang'e, not the one Armstrong and Aldrin came in.

>> No.6263984

>>6263966
>For now, all that's happened is the launch of a primitive rocket to the side of the moon closest to them

Way to skip the most important part.

>> No.6263986

"Youkai" just refers to supernatural creatures in general. Onis, fairies and even Lunarians are all types of youkai. Some of them don't have specific races or are just an animal that developed supernatural powers.

>> No.6263982 [DELETED] 

"Youkai" just refers to supernatural creatures in general. Onism, fairies and even Lunarians are all types of youkai. Some of them don't have specific races or are just an animal that developed supernatural powers.

>> No.6263992

>>6263538
youkai have never seen a .50 SAW that explodes a man in half with a single burst.

>> No.6263995
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6263995

>>6263984
>There aren't many left who took part in the last war.

Care to explain this, then? Seems even the Watatsuki sisters can't seem to decide whether the war happened or not.

>> No.6264003

>>6263992
Humans don't have handheld weapons that can disintegrate a dozen square miles of stuff in the blink of an eye.

>> No.6264007
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6264007

>>6264003
The humans have this, though.

>> No.6264012

>>6263986
Lunarians are human.

>> No.6264017

>>6263995
Sure I can.

1. The war happened.
2. Earthlings did not invade the moon.

Logical conclusion: the war was not against the Earthlings. Probably an intra-lunar conflict.

>> No.6264022

>>6264017
What of the invasion that Yukari led?

>> No.6264026

>>6264003
No, we can do that from miles away without ever having to face our opponents. Or y'know, just use SONIC GUNS wolololo

>> No.6264036
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6264036

>>6264003
And if you count alternate dimension humans, Yumemi has a positron bomb on her ship that can obliterate an entire planet.

>> No.6264038

>>6264022
That was centuries ago. The war we're talking about is the one Reisen (Udonge) ran away from.

>> No.6264056

>>6264017
So then, Reisen's friends told her to run away from the moon for shits and giggles? Or... she was a coward who ran away the moment it looked like she would have to fight humans?

>> No.6264080

>>6264056
Someone better get ZUN here. He needs clear this shit up.

>> No.6264092

>>6264080
>Someone better get ZUN here. He needs clear this shit up.

Yeah, he has a lot of work beside that.

>> No.6264098

>>6264092
>a lot of work
Yeah, he has to think how many numbers he can still squeeze between 12 and 13.

>> No.6264107

>>6264012

They outlive normal humans using supernatural science, so could be classified as youkai.

>> No.6264112

>>6264098
I said that meaning he has to clear up A LOT of things.

>> No.6264120

>>6264056
Yep, Reisen's a coward.

>>6264107
Hermits and celestials also do that, and they're not youkai.

>> No.6264162

>>6264107
No, they don't. Save for the Hourai elixir, which is forbidden, there's evidence that they use supernatural means to extend their lives. For all we know being free of Earth's impurities does that or they've invented a longevity vaccine or something.

>> No.6264172

>>6264162
Meant to say "there's no evidence".

>> No.6264249

I hope Something of Lasers has more touhous with guns.

>> No.6264315

>>6263538
Confirmed moon casualties are as far as I know only from Shikieiki, who's confirmed to stretch the truth at times. But I guess it's not unreasonable that a few rabbits were killed.

Youkai can presumably be killed with overwhelming force, but are resistant to anything that isn't magic. I've always thought it assumed that they possess extraordinary physical force and toughness: this is why they are combated with religion as opposed to regular arms.

But remember, the definition of "spiritual attack" is extremely vague. In SSiB, we have people extremely worried about the goddamned Chinese moon program because it's named after Chang'e, remember? Something as simple as that, apparently, is enough. So you never know, maybe the astronauts' faith in modern weaponry is strong enough to count as a sort of spiritual attack.

That, or the US government anticipated their requirements and got blessed silver bullets in advance.

>> No.6264372

>>6264315
But those weapons are not something spiritual to begin with. Chang'e at least carry a spiritual/religious or mythical meaning. Guns on the other hand, don't. They were made without a principle or logic like a rod for rituals was for example.

>> No.6264493

>>6264372
In order for something to obtain spiritual power, it's not necessary for it to be created with a spiritual purpose in mind, right? I mean, if someone has faith in a thing, doesn't it become special just due to the strength of their belief?

In Touhou, at least, that's how youkai are made. You'd think a soldier who loves his rifle and believes in its ability to conquer everything would find success in shooting youkai with it.

>> No.6264635
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6264635

>>6263567

This image is fabricated and a lie.

In reality, it was 'them' who slaughtered the entire defense force on the Moon, with just one single survivor. This image proves it.

'They' fabricated this image of yours to cover up their second holocaust and to discredit the US attempts to reactivate the moon program and to arouse suspicion by other powers, such as China and Russia.

Now, its only China and their Chang'e program that is attempting to free the oppressed youkais from the fascist slavery, while the US is being viewed with distrust.

It's all a sheme! The US and China should work together to achieve this goal.

China with their ritual to revive the moon-goddess, and the US with the power of Jesus to victor over the Nazi occupation, Operation Lunar Freedom shall become a unstoppable campaign of the righteous!

>> No.6264650

>>6264635
Moon Nazis are hilarious and all, but Star Wars Moon Nazis is just over the line.

>> No.6264689
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6264689

"5 Years ago I lost 30,000 yen in a brink of the eye..."

>> No.6264695
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6264695

>>6264689
"...and whole Gensyoko JUST FUCKIN WATCHED!"

>> No.6264719

>>6263769

>Now you are just making shit up.

Way to sum up every discusion about touhou's background ever. Why can't everyone just fap to the sluts and leave the thinking to the people who make the doujins.

>> No.6264723
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6264723

you can kill a yokai

but can you kill a demon?

>> No.6264759

>>6264120
>oh god they might send me out to fight the humans aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

Reisen is the worst touhou, confirmed.

>> No.6264765
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6264765

>>6264635
you sure that it actually was the Nazi's?

>> No.6264783

>>6264719
Because not everyone is fucking retard like you.

>> No.6264788

>>6264759
>they might send me out to fight the humans aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

You're now imagining the story of Imperishable Night illustrated by hiimdaisy.

>> No.6264870

>>6264788
If peachifruit ever got into Touhou she'd never get out. I feel we owe it to her to keep her away from it.

>> No.6264899

Have you ever seen a youkai?

Or a dragon or a centuar or a french canadian?

Do you know why? Because the guns keep them in their place.

>> No.6265012

>>6264870
What if she already has and that's the reason that she never updates anymore?

>> No.6265030

>>6265012
Hah, don't be ridiculous. Nobody can actually play the games for more than two tries at a time. There comes a point for most people where you play them once every month and consume secondary stuff the rest of the time.

>> No.6265268
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6265268

>>6263820
>>6263825

There actually is some substance to this.
Traditional oni (usually male) are said to abduct beautiful human women to mate with. Although most of the same stories tend to make it clear humans and oni are impossible to cross, apparently oni do believe this.
Where, if anywhere, this would fit into the whole Touhou oni mythos is unclear.

>>6263538

Yes, at least some. It's just often highly impractical.
Beast type youkai like tanuki, lesser nekomata and kitsune up to two tails (possibly more, but unconfirmed) can generally be taken down like regular animals. For others, it varies - generally youkai with a greater mystical than physical presence can absorb enough damage to make conventional weapons uneconomic.

Generally, if you're going hunting any exceptional youkai, you need "legendary heroes".

>> No.6265282

>>6265268
Helen, while I've caught you.

You said once that SCP-446 was named Cirno: there's no record of such a thing in deletion logs except Google returning a result for "scp-446 cirno".

Could you elaborate further?

>> No.6265300
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6265300

Also, keep in mind that whether any "legendary heroes" exist in our era is open to discussion...

>>6265282

It was named "Snow fairy" or something, but from the description (if I recall right, even including six wings and blue hair) it was pretty clear the author intended it to be Cirno.

>> No.6265319

>>6265282
>>6265300
what are you talking about?

>> No.6265339

>>6265268
If any sufficiently powerful youkai could just parade around the world and terrorize the human populace because they're invincible, they wouldn't need to hole up in Gensokyo.

I'm almost inclined to believe it wouldn't take much more than a few squads of trained military men to take down even an exceptionally powerful youkai.

>> No.6265344

>>6265300
It's also debatable whether or not legendary heroes existed back then.

Thanks for the info: my curiosity is finally put to rest. I checked the deletion logs for that time period, by the way, and the admin who deleted it didn't mention the name or the concept, so thanks.

>> No.6265368
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6265368

>>6265319

SCP = Special Containment Procedures.

A wiki that lists the inventory of a fake government warehouse-type organisation, basically a long list of scientifically unexplainable items that are kept out of public knowledge for one reason or another.

>> No.6265403

>>6265339
Actually its pretty clear that the youkai powers that we know of could decimate the human race without much trouble. Look at Okuu and her near miss at roasting the entire world.

No, the youkai police themselves. Yukari knows that they are dependent on humans for their very existence.

Humans need to believe in them for them to survive. Letting miko help with problems that they themselves could easily handle keeps them believing and creates legends. There aren't many youkai nowadays because the amount of people that believe has gone down a lot with things like science.

>> No.6265436

>>6265403
>decimate the human race
If they really could do this, there's no reason that they would have trouble maintaining their existence. It's because the youkai couldn't exert fear on the humans anymore that they were dying off like animals.

Gensokyo was made as a last-ditch effort to save youkai from extinction.

>> No.6265459
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6265459

>>6265344

Well... to be fair, it's not like legendary heroes ever was the silver bullet.

I mean, Yamato Takeru was pretty much the top motherfucker of pre-Heian Japan, and he still got slaughtered by the resident deities of mount Ibuki... who exposed him to a hailstorm from a clear sky...

I'm tempted to say we got prime suspects here.

>> No.6265467
File: 329 KB, 705x680, 1269900991463.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
6265467

>>6264723
ONE ON ONE FAGGET

>> No.6265469

>>6265459
And a bunch of humans who were less famous also murdered the fuck out of Suika's mythical equivalent Shuten Douji and his gang.

>> No.6265488

>>6265469
Yeah, the Big Four of Japan sucked a lot for some reason.

>> No.6265495
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6265495

NOPE

>> No.6265504

Wasn't the Nue, like many other youkai in lore, beaten by the usual well placed arrow to a vital organ? Hell isn't beheading the most prominent way to kill them too? Of course, this isn't really relevant when discussing Touhou, but its rather odd that in most stories it's neither a priest or any other spiritual mediator that deals with them.

>> No.6265512

>>6265504
Pretty much.

THE MEN OF LEGEND who take down these so-called superhuman beasts are usually just famous samurais.

>> No.6265546

>>6265504
European folklore is pretty much the same, those amazing embodiments of hellish terror called dragons, apparently don't like getting the average lance through the head.

>> No.6265558

>>6265512
>>6265546

Well sooner or later someone is going to roll three natural 20s in a row.

>> No.6265588
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6265588

For clarification, "legendary heroes" are not in any way superhuman - they are just plain humans that have the attributes of a legendary hero. The attributes are also individual, thus there is no actual predefined attribute that is always that of a legendary hero.

For example, Yamato Takeru had the powers of crossdressing, ripping arms out of their sockets, whining about small birds and mercy towards albino pigs in addition to being a legendary hero.
Even the grimmest mythology is kind of hilarious.

>> No.6265592
File: 76 KB, 1024x768, battlezone.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
6265592

>>6264635
is that some motherfucking battlezone?
i fucking loved battlezone!
rave gun was danmaku tier

>> No.6265617

>>6265588
But it order to become legendary, they have to build up that legend first, meaning that they started out as completely ordinary people. Ordinary people that ended up killing the scourge of the lands.

So, why wouldn't modern ordinary people be able to kill youkai?

>> No.6265641
File: 55 KB, 640x480, AMERICA.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
6265641

>>6263567

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CAPITALISM (FUCK YEAH)
WALL STREET (FUCK YEAH)
STRIP CLUBS (FUCK YEAH)
BREAST IMPLANTS (FUCK YEAH)
NUCLEAR BOMBS (FUCK YEAH)
GLOBAL WARMING (FUCK YEAH)
NORMAL PEOPLE (FUCK YEAH)
WEEABOOS ( Weeaboos?)
(Fuck yeah? Fuck yeah...)

>> No.6265656

>>6265592
That's It!, I finally figured out what happened in 1969. On the moon, the soviets and americans were fighting each other with tanks and the moon rabbits were caught in the crossfire. This could explain why Reisen left at the beginning because the first thing she saw was a skirmish between the two sides. Eventually, the soviets and americans joined forces once the rabbits become a huge threat and the rest is highly classified by the respective governments.

>> No.6265727
File: 147 KB, 800x800, legendary-thread.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
6265727

So...one question , then the "weapons" that we use...can be upgraded using youkai's body part ? like...idk mixing bullets with youkai blood to increase the fire power ?

>> No.6265786

>>6265727

Or like taping their breasts to the front of our body armor to provide even more protection!

>> No.6265810

>>6265786
That actually can work with the skin of Onis

>> No.6265884

>>6265810
Problem is, you've got to kill and skin an oni.

>> No.6265902
File: 329 KB, 800x800, yuugisuikashou.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
6265902

>>6265884

Same problem you get with dragonscale in high fantasy.
By the time you get the owner to part with their hide, there's not going to be any of it left.

>> No.6265906

>>6265504
Wasn't the guy who did it a legendary archer, though? One could argue that if they were just some schmuck with a bow, it would be far more difficult for them to do it even at close range, but then we get awkwardly close to the law of narrative causality and nobody wants that.

>>
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