/jp/ - Otaku Culture

[Anonymous No.]

So, I hear a lot that the Touhou games are crap as shmups. Are the people who say that just trolling, or are they right? I don't play many shmups, but when I do I invariably find myself coming back to Touhou because I like the slow, dense, distinctive, interesting danmaku patterns. I like the emphasis on planning ahead and movement accuracy over twitch reflexes. Can /jp/ recommend to me any "real shmups" that are like that? Is there a better Touhou than Touhou? Pic related: it's one of the few other shmups I've played.

Also, shmup general.

[Anonymous No.]

Duh, of course they are trolls, more so infatuated by the hate of the series itself, since they're the ones that repeatedly call /jp/ers ''2hufags''. However, do note that the biggest factor of all is opinion, the enjoyability of Touhou depends on your tastes on both the shmup playability and the rest of the game (music, design, etc.)

[Anonymous No.]

Difficulty != quality

Touhou is not hard in comparison sure, but its not meant to be for christ's sake.

and I'm sure that no matter how many times I say this, no one's going to listen and automatically assume "touhou is comparitively easy and thus crappy"

its AESTHETIC at base, sure the characters aren't awesomely done but a lot else is

[Anonymous No.]

Just play it if you like it and don't worry too much about if other people think you're dumb for doing so. However, it's nice to expand and play more of these types of games if they do interest you. I'm currently working on Fever SOS right now. It's the most fun I have playing a shmup, although it's definitely different from Touhou since it has an emphasis on very fast bullets so it's probably not what you're looking for.

[Anonymous No.]

They're hipsters who only say Touhou sucks because it's popular. Whether or not you want to consider that trolling is up to you.

[Anonymous No.]

Here's a discussion of Touhou as a shmup from the perspective of shmup gamers rather than from Touhou fans, for whatever that's worth.

http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=34754

[Anonymous No.]

They are either trolls or retards.
The same goes for people who claim touhou is the holy grail of shmups.

The Touhou games are all pretty solid, certainly not the best but excellent starting points and still fun for experienced players.

If you want to try games that have a similar feel you might want to play some CAVE games, like Dodonpachi, Guwange or Progear and if you don't mind paying money for it and have a 360, Mushihimesama Futari and Death Smiles.

[Anonymous No.]

/jp/, what's "harder", Touhou or Triggerheart Exelica?

[Anonymous No.]

I wouldn't say they are terrible games but I don't like them and I don't like any of the scoring systems.

Muchi Muchi Pork is a very fun shmup with a great scoring system. Akai Katana Zetsu is also fucking awesome.

[Anonymous No.]

Touhou games are pretty good as shmups but they'll never be on the level of shmups by Cave, Psikyo, Taoplan etc...

[Anonymous No.]

>>7561153
Try playing Samidare, Crimzon Clover, and shmups by CAVE, Raizing.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7561175
So basically if they think Touhou is of a different quality than you do then they're trolls/retards?

[Anonymous No.]

>>7561199
...That's a fake, right?
...If that exists... I want it...

[Anonymous No.]

>>7561211
It's fake.

[Anonymous No.]

Go play Mars Matrix.

[Anonymous No.]

I don't like modern shmups. I like Touhou (admittedly, mostly for StB/DS, which technically aren't even really shmups). This leads me to believe that there are, in fact, some crucial differences between the two that may, in turn, have negative impact on the enjoyment of Touhou for the person who primarily plays other games in the genre.

But the real question is, why the fuck would you care?

[Anonymous No.]

To be honest there are not many shmups that play like touhou. Most shmups try to prevent people from simple micro tap dodging while in Touhou you can do it most of the time. Instead of scoring, the replayability lies in mastering mulitple difficulties and trying to "capture spellcards". Touhou players usually want to aim for clear play with certain set of rules like not bombing even though it would be benefitable for score.

>Samidare
Why do people suggest this so much? SMD is quite an aquired taste and its charm lies in getting into the very memorization heavy scoring.

Cho Ren Sha 68k is good way to get into the more traditional shooters that are fast paced with simple scoring.

Blue Wish Resurrection is good example of simple and easy modern bullet hell shooter with easy to understand and enjoyable scoring system.

Both of these are free and easy to get PC games.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7561208
no, only if they claim they are either complete shit or way above everything else.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7561173
I see most of the criticism in that thread comes from the Touhou games being highly memorizable, that they are too easy when not playing for score, and that the bullets are too slow. All of which are perfectly fair statements, but I actually like those aspects of Touhou. So I guess in the end it's just down to taste.

[Anonymous No.]

After playing Fever SOS today and researching, I found out I only get one extra life. Are you serious? This game is extremely fun, but I don't think I'll ever be able to beat it. I mean really, only one extra life? Plus I have to never die to get to the true final boss. I guess I'll keep going on though, even if it's hopeless. Maybe I'm a masochist.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7561253
Ever try Seibu Kaihatsu games?

[Anonymous No.]

>>7561260

I might have, but I probably don't remember too much if anything at all.

[Anonymous No.]

Touhou games are only "easy" if you are playing for the 1CC. The difficulty is much higher if you are trying to play for score.

They really aren't bad games; as amateur efforts they put 90% of existing "indie" games to shame.

The arcade shmup elitists are mostly just upset that the face of their dying genre is a doujin shooter with animu girls.

>emphasis on planning ahead

In Dodonpachi Dai-Ou-Jou, to score well-- or hell, even have a chance of fucking clearing the game-- you have to essentially have the entire game memorized. All of it. Bee locations, enemy entrance points, methods of doing attacks-- DOJ is an unforgiving game that doesn't reward improvisation in the slightest. If that isn't "planning ahead" then I don't know what is.

>movement accuracy over twitch reflexes
Go play Mushihime on Ultra. Gigantic, slow, purple bullet walls everywhere. Futari is similar but a little faster. Both excellent games, but I hope you like the color purple.

[Youmu Konpaku !MyonHUTINA No.]

Blue Wish Resurrection comes to mind. Possibly HELLSINKER. Maybe HelloPanda, if you don't mind... strangeness, and slightly less quality.

[Anonymous No.]

I can't really get into the games because they feel so god damn slow compared to other shooters. I don't bash the fans/games though. However, I do enjoy the music.

[Anonymous No.]

http://bizarrezootv.com/play.php?video=35569961193556996119

[Francis York Morgan !mbHjxjfHlA No.]

Play Espgaluda OP. It's easy to pirate, not particularly tough for a Cave game, and awesome.

[Anonymous No.]

Touhou is just a weird STG subgenre. People who are looking for regular, solid shmup gameplay will probably get nothing out of it. But they're very peculiar. If they were just generic crappy shmups I wouldn't still play them. There is a lot of uneven game design but it's a lot better than people give it credit for.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7561248
I only read the first couple pages but most of the criticism was about the fans and not even the games themselves.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7561343
I've played BWR, and it's pretty good, same with Eden's Aegis. The danmaku patterns seem a bit uninspired compared to some of Touhou's (at least on Original difficulty, haven't tried Hell yet), but other than that it's probably my favorite of the non-Touhou shmups I've played so far.

Hellsinker looks pretty interesting, though. I'll have to check that one out. It's certainly fun to watch, at least.

I'm also downloading Mushihime-sama for the PS2 since I see Cave being recommended a lot.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7561403
The first Mushihimesama isn't all that good. You're better off starting with titles like DoDonPachi or EspGaluda on MAME. The emulation in MAME is a lot better and suffers from less input lag.

[Anonymous No.]

no one said Kamui yet?

[Anonymous No.]

OP using Ikaruga is pretty ironic, that's another massively overrated shmup, the entire game is memorizable.

[Youmu Konpaku !MyonHUTINA No.]

>>7561414
Kamui's a lil' bit fast though.

>>7561418
If you'd care to read the thread, he says he enjoys that.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7561220
Beat me to it. Go play Mars Matrix, OP, anon is right.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7561412
Is it? I've never tried to use MAME, but I guess this is as good an excuse as any.

[Anonymous No.]

Mars Matrix is an overrated memorizer mess of a game. Enjoy being a bunch of bandwagoners who hopped on the epic "Go play Mars Matrix" meme.

Go play Dimahoo.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7561433
Get the version that was specifically made for shmups. It should remove a frame or two of input lag for a lot of games. Shmupmame if I remember correct.

The emulator itself is extremely easy to use. The only thing needed besides the emulator itself are the roms, which you should be able to find among the first hits in google.

[Anonymous No.]

One thing I love about CAVE is how their boss patterns have relatively little memorization but are still fancy and stay fun after hundreds of times. Depends on the game of course.

[Francis York Morgan !mbHjxjfHlA No.]

>>7561450
I used to use shmupmame a lot (I even recorded a Ketsui clear with it), and really, I don't recommend it. Get MamePlus instead.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7561462
Why? Save state support?

[Anonymous No.]

I actually think MoF lunatic plays a lot like Dodonpachi.

[Francis York Morgan !mbHjxjfHlA No.]

>>7561475
It's mainly the "record input" feature that annoyed the hell out of me. Whenever I reset the game with F3 or shift+F3, it wouldn't clear my previous inputs, so when I tried to watch the playback, it'd be all fucked up.

Once I tried out MamePlus, I figured I'd never need to touch shmupmame again because none of my problems carried over, and it's just so much more convenient in every way. It even has a built in feature for recording a .avi video from one of your replays, so you can easily upload it to youtube or something. Shmupmame used to have that feature, but it doesn't work in the current version.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7561508
Isn't there also a shmupmame version based on mameplus .99 though? You won't get the input lag reduction with the regular version and the difference is very noticable in CAVE games since it usually brings the delay from 1 frame to the lowest possible.

[Francis York Morgan !mbHjxjfHlA No.]

>>7561516
I dunno, I've played Ketsui on the 360, shmupmame, mameplus, and some other version of mame, and I can barely tell the difference between any of them, aside from the 360 version being the best. I don't think shmupmame makes any real difference to be honest.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7561525
Start up game on mame. Pause game. Hold a directional button and press Shift+P until your ship moves. You'll see how many frames it takes.

The difference between moving at the first or second frame feels pretty big for me. Usually the sensitivity depends on what you are used to.

[Van_Artic No.]

>emphasis on planning ahead

DDP DOJ and Battle Garegga without any question

btw i don't get the hype over Marx Matrix too

[Youmu Konpaku !MyonHUTINA No.]

>>7561497
Funny that you mention that, because I just 1cc'd DoDonPachi for the first time a couple days ago, and immediately started working on MoF Lunatic.

There are a bunch of similarities, for sure. Chaining sorta, though MoF's is waaay more forgiving. Stages to a limited extent, not so much stages 1-2 but 5 you could definitely say pulls off something of a DoDonPachi vibe. The bosses of MoF are harder, but DDP's are no joke either.

I think the main thing is the whole BOMBOMBOMB thing that they've got going on. They both give you soooo many bombs that it's very difficult to not die with bombs still in stock, and if you can dodge somewhat reasonably well and manage to bomb every possible time, it's a 1cc.