/lit/ - Literature

>>5750936
Jay Wright's poems all seem like they go on too long, and I can see why they go on so long because they have this great kind of build and symphonic structure but it's at the cost of any attention to detail after the first couple stanzas

but this general point is so right. can't comment on Toni Morrison, but my point of reference for this is Chinua Achebe who writes like if a slightly-above-average /pol/ thread tried to brainstorm an imaginary African writer, while Tayyeb Salih balances nostalgic maximalist elegance with the demands of modern prose and a concern for the reader better than any other writer on the planet and gets slept on.

>>5750890
That's true. melmotte is based. But what bugs me is that the actual discussion is limited, not that people like the wrong things. To the extent that the School of Resentment has made any advances, it's been entirely by exploiting how hard it is to actually talk about literature, and coming up with easy ways around this. I'd personally not even call it the School of Resentment, which mostly reflects Bloom's shallow butthurt about SJWs, so much as the School of Copout or School of Chickenshit. The MOST that "school" can say for itself is that it's fairly progressive, but since the powerful vested interests involved in anything in our society aren't actually pushing for more equality, it's just digging its own grave while it waits for some even more reductive, reactionary school to come along.

>>5750828
Marx's most important ideas IMO all came from his economics, or his idea of turning an idealist theory (Hegelian dialectic) radically materialist and seeing what happens.

Between those two things he got a historical model that, while imperfect, maps onto actual history surprisingly well, economic and social predictions that are still being fulfilled today, and an seductive whisper of how a new society might be formed.

When it came to actually imagining that society in any greater detail, him and most of his subsequent followers fell back on theories developed in a totally different historical context, by a guy who wasn't really trying to make a theory anyway, and got a bunch of contradictory, edgy, anti-human shit about a society that forces people to be free.

>>5750726
oh. OHHH. so this is a eugenics thread.

take an intro to bioethics course.

everything that was dumb and useless in Marx came from Rousseau

...oh wow. That's such a frustrating thread. Everyone is talking intelligently and has real points to make but they're all so limited in such obvious ways that reading it feels like banging your head against a wall.

Like, I've never been inclined to believe Bloom's "School of Resentment" was a real thing. Everything that gets commonly cited as such, from haute postmodernism to Tumblr SJ, is either a lot more sophisticated or a lot more instinctual than Bloom gives them credit for. But this entire thread is the School of Resentment exactly as Bloom described it, except they all do care about literature I'm pretty sure and have just cut themselves off so completely from so much. The Bloom fans included.

>>5750544
FYI, you don't know what formalism is. start with the Russians.

>>5750560
School of Resentment pls go

I didn't think I would actually be mad, but I am

>>5750482
>specific race advantages

Just wondering, do you by any chance play a lot of tabletop games?

I wonder if there's a difference between what's described in these posts
>>5746036
>>5746037

and these:
>>5746098
>>5746124

When I read the former two, they don't sound like abdications in the way the latter two do. But maybe I'm just failing to follow ideas through to their conclusions; and/or thanks to Western conditioning/self-indulgence, perceiving as a duty what would actually be sacrilege/violence.

>>5746061
that list definitely needs some Ondaatje, maybe Joseph Boyden too

the absence of Mordecai Richler is just bizarre

most of the pre-1950s stuff on there is of almost purely historical interest

I'd round out some of the Quebec stuff with Hector de Saint-Denys Garneau, also Martine Audet is a purely personal recommendation, don't speak French well enough to know if French people consider her as "relevant" as the rest of these or not

>>5743978
>Cabala
>existing prior to the Middle Ages

What the hell is this shit?

>>5741491
Charles Bukowski is the definition of pretentious, his entire oeuvre is a "look how bohemian I am" pose minus any skill or effort

I think you have pretentious mixed up with inaccessible again

>>5732316
>whether an individual like Raphael succeeds in developing his talent
>his talent

see, that is still part of the equation. he basically says it's both. it's Stirner's "uniqueness of work in science and art" - i.e. making it ALL about the individual - that Marx is criticizing.

>>5737245
that wasn't an ad hom, fyi. I didn't mean "anon is a pedantic and literal-minded person", I've never even talked to you. I expressed, in a SLIGHTLY colloquial but widely understood way, "this is an incredibly pedantic and literal way of reading this statement by Aurelius, i.e. poor reading that actually obfuscates the meaning of the text".

you then read my post the same way, and - surprise! - didn't understand the meaning of it.

>>5735100
nearly every new artform is shitty when it starts out.

>Novels are worse than romance, because they're all the same and don't even pretend to be different.
>Gosh, I wonder if this will detail the quirky wanderings of some middle-class douche, with pointless twists and characters coming back in implausible ways

>>5734994
oh god I hope this isn't one guy, this makes me happier than anything I've read all week

unrelated, does anyone have the end of that /b/ thread where somebody greentexted his grandpa's diary about the Eastern Front in WWII? it was glorious and I have almost all of it screencapped but I had to go to sleep and missed the end of the story

>>5737089
>no Kristeva
>no Irigaray
>no Butler

"why are there no more Great Philosophers, why is the canon stagnating, the canon is dead"

>>5737115
>being this pedantic and literal

even more euphoric than Marcus Aurelius

>>5724188
>>5725515
Bruno Schulz a best. Also Cyprian Norwid.

Anyone else think Czeslaw Milosz is overrated, though?

>>5725113
>thinking "the Chosen People" needed or wanted to proselytize
>not having actually read any of the literature I'm talking about

>>5725113
>thinking ancient Jews proselytized, ever

>>5725107
>in-depth knowledge
was what somebody else said, not me.

You people are all missing the point. OP's dumb image implies that "he raped a 9 year old girl" is something OP learned from reading the Quran, which would imply that either a) he didn't know about the hadith before or b) he had some doubts as to its validity. As some Islamic scholars do. If the former, he wouldn't have learned it by reading the Quran. If the latter, he wouldn't have confirmed it by reading the Quran: Aisha's being mentioned in it does not confirm by itself what any particular hadith says about her. The Quran says too little on the matter of Aisha to provide any insight on that debate, and either OP knows that and is bullshitting, or OP hasn't actually read the Quran.

>>5725088
>what is the entirety of Jewish prophetic literature

>>5725029
just to clarify, the only person here expected to have in-depth knowledge of the Quran was the OP, who made a shitty meme implying he had read it.

>>5724927
did I say I was?

is this relevant in any way?