/lit/ - Literature

Discuss antinatalism, philosophical pessimism, and misanthropy and its various forms and moral consequences (Christian antinatalism, Buddhist antinatalism, abortion, ecological misanthropy, Gnosticism, theodicy, etc.)

Pic related is the asymmetry of pleasure and pain.

>>16833245
As much as you insist it would not bring significant amounts of pleasure noticeable except for perhaps a scornious judgement from the users here; Besides, Benatar's negative utilitarianism arguments illustrate the asymmetry on weighing pain and pleasure, where the presence of the former is bad, but the absence of the latter is neutral, as an argument for the unethical nature of creating both pain and pleasure in a conscious brain.

1) If we regard pain and pleasure as respectively inherently bad and good, we can do so from a "global" perspective. A perspective from the universe itself. This seems a natural foundation of utilitarianism, that pain is bad for the experiencer, but since the experiencer is simply a part of the universe it is inherently bad for the universe. And opposite for pleasure. Thus the lack of potential pleasure is a bad because it is a deprivation for the universe even if there is no one (human/animal) subject for whom that lack of pleasure is a deprivation. So there is no asymmetry, non-existent suffering is good and non-existent pleasure is bad.
>but this entails us to breed as much as we possibly can!
no, because when we decide to create another human being we inevitably cause future suffering to be experienced by that person. this is bad. but we also cause pleasure to be experienced by that person, this is good. so whether or not we should create another person depends on the likelihood of how that persons life will go. in addition having children effects other people than just that child and if everyone started breeding like rabbits this would cause suffering both to them, since that is not how most people would like to live, and to other people due to issues of overpopulation etc.
>but people never talk in terms of someones non-existence causing pleasure to be missed out on
but they do in situations of suicide for instance so it's really not that counter-intuitive to reject the asymmetry.

2) Every moment we decide to not kill ourselves is a choice to keep existing and to potentially create suffering. If everyone had a button they could click and die painlessly and immediately with no distress to their pain and family would they not be obligated to do so? Because just as when creating another human being you create future suffering, by continuing to exist you also create future suffering for yourself. why separate suffering between yourself and your child? it's all suffering. Yet most people would not press this button. Either they are misled or it seems the asymmetry is wrong.

Do you guys fuck w/ Benatar's Asymmetry?