/lit/ - Literature

>>23023929

>>19175261
>28
>9mil net worth
>Decline of the West

>>17329796
It appears that the linear-visual is Faustian.. McLuhan certainly did associate the Mediaeval era with the Orient, and the right-brained abstractionist tendency of that hemisphere. It's not the Apollonian because that has a sense of stasis which is removed from linearity

>>17036211
Doubt it, the ground for a Caesar is fertile but we probably have several decades before it gets to that point. We need a Sulla before a Caesar so to speak.

Also someone posted this in an earlier thread. But I noticed it was missing the Megian climax historical view. If the person who made this could include this it'd complete all the views Spengler knew of (I donno which program you used to make this bro I can't find the font to add on without it looking crap), I can make guesses on what the others were through my own research but not going to do that now.

How will the next space-time conception look like, since it always seems to have been derived from natural landscapes?
Will the next "room" be the web-like room of cyber-space?

>>16909681
Correct, and neither is Faustian Man.
>b-but muh minorities
Faustian Man spent most of its history plotting to invade the rest of the world spreading his values. That is EXACTLY what the US is doing. Once they have those values, they come here. That's entirely Faustian. Besides, most of the people flooding the West are felaheen, who don't actually have "values". There is absolutely nothing in Spengler that says that niggity nogs and beaners can't be Faustian Men. In fact, Faustian Man is one of the culture-civilizations most compatible with global proselytization. What do you think Galatians 3:28 is about?

If you think Spengler is all about MUH POST-ENLIGHTENMENT MASONIC LIBERALISM, you are dead fucking wrong.

>>16830600
Assessing the number-space of Classical civilization is difficult but it might help to think of a Classical pagan temple as the behavioural equivalent of an alphanumeric code within a database. There's little sense of what we think of as 'history' in Homer, or a sense of progression from Danaan to Dorian Greece... the Trojan war just has to be expressed in that particular formula.

>>16653001
Apollonian Man is long dead. The Romans, in their pursuit of Empire, imported Magian ideals. The Apollonian Men saw the world as a series of discrete uniform bodies dancing around each other in the void. There is distance between the bodies, but distance only means anything in relation to bodies. The void is truly empty, and measureless. Faustian Man, however, sees the world as a 3D grid, so space does actually have measure. Apollonian Man saw these bodies as being unable to interfere with each other; they could bump into each other, one could make another bigger or smaller, you could knock a body far away out of its dance with other bodies, but you could never "break into" another body. It just didn't work that way.

The Romans imported Magian ideals in order to get around that. The Romans sacked Carthage (totally acceptable for Apollonian Man), and then they salted the earth, so Carthage would die. That was inconceivable for Apollonian Man. As more and more Magian Man got imported (Spengler also has a theory of "pseudo-morphosis", wherein one Culture-Civilization conquers another and stifles it, but does not kill it; Russia was subjected to this by Faustian Man, which is why in Spengler's day they had no "Prime Architecture". Magian Man was subjected to this by Apollonian Man, which is why Apollonian Man ends up dying at the hands of Magian Man, as revenge for that stifling), Apollonian Man withered.

The interesting question, then, and this is why I relate this to Dawkins' Extended Phenotype theories, is: can you intentionally join another Culture-Civilization? South America is Faustian, but where it isn't, it's just a mass of felaheen (see: Brazilian favelas). How then, does an individual go from Felaheen, to joining a Culture-Civilization? Can I just will myself into being part of Russian Man (I am not ethnically or nationally Russian, at all) by thinking like a Russian?

I, personally, would say yes.

>>15705222
I'm gonna defend Spengler's "muh special architecture muh space and time" ideas on the grounds that they don't scientifically describe civilizations, but rather artistically, poetically, do.

That is to say, the idea of "muh Faustian infinite space", "muh magian closed dome" are poetic understandings of the reality of how these civilizations understood the world, which cannot truly be put into words. It's a way of understanding the reality that comes from "all the pieces being in place", which can be understood but not really spoken because of its totality. We lack the language to do this, and Spengler comes up with his own terminology to try, but it's still incomplete.

So yeah, if you take it as literal (In one of these threads a Russian brought up the point "So, what, no one else had tall trees but Germany?"), it's obviously stupid, but it's not supposed to be literal.

I'd also argue that Academics don't make "Grand Theories" anymore because academics are required to hold to Whig History, because we live under Liberalism. Outside of the Faustian world, we actually do still see these Grand Theories. Dugin is a good example of this, and China has numerous of these types (The only one I can name off the top of my head is Jiang Shigong).

>>15664487
because they have differing explanations for it. doesn't change the fact that it's fundamentally a faculty of the mind. a tribe could indulge in cannibalism, but that doesn't change the fact that cannibalism is morally wrong.

>>15337287
I agree, absolutely nothing about Odysseus is Faustian at all. Just because he travels doesn't mean he's Faustian. In fitting with the Classical view of time and space, Odysseus travels from place to place, each of which is its own self contained bubble. Everywhere he goes is its own land, has its own people, its own history, its own space and time, and its separated from each by a bubble.

That's what makes Odysseus so clever, he's the man of Polytropos. He's the man who knows much because he's been everywhere. In a world filled with self contained bubbles, knowledge can only be gained by leaving your bubble, and going to others. Odysseus slips in and out of the bubbles, gather wit and wisdom, having adventures, until he returns to his own (Ithaca). Ironically, he's forced to leave his home AGAIN after the Odyssey ends, for the very same reason he even made it back, because of the very same forces that brought him home.

He's the most Apollonian hero there is: The man of many places. Polytropos. Only Apollonian man can ever appreciate a truly distinct place.

>>15264130
>>15264189
The theory describes thought structures congruent in human societies, nothing more. Modern mainstream psychology has actually independently touched on Spengler's theories in the form of chronemics.

>>14832466

>>14771127
Faustian and Magian sense of time are both linear but whereas Magian begins with Creation and ends with Judgement, Faustian is always working towards some higher goal. God is absolutely everything in Magian culture, but the will to power (the upward trend, the achievement) is the goal of Faustian history. Hence the ancient, medieval, modern division. The present has been worked for and the future is to be worked for.

>>14617997
Really strange way of looking at the world and history. How does dialectical materialism explain pic related as an effect of economics?

Spengler did actually refute Kant, because Kant believed his theories of time and space existed universally for all man, but if we closely examine other Cultures throughout history we see there are no universal conceptions of time and space. I have made pic related to visually demonstrate Spengler's theories of time and space across Cultures. Therefore time and space are NOT means of perception as Kant thought; rather, time is a construct, an idea probably derived from religion, and conceptions of space are derived from geography.

>inb4 "bbbut Indians thought time was cyclical"
Nope. Every Culture closely identifies time with history, and as it turns out, Indians have no history whatsoever. What we know today has been entirely reconstructed by ourselves, and even then, much of ancient Indian history is completely lost. In Greece, there were no professional historians before Herodotus, relatively late in Greek history. There are 0 (ZERO) ancient Indian professional historians. This was a Culture that both completely denied the movement of time and didn't care at all about how the present came to be.