/lit/ - Literature

Explain how the Genghis Khan tribe and the Roman dudes were capitalist?

>>10090022
Fallouts 3 and later (all item-management RPGs) are based around the crassest commodity fetishism. This is embodied in the "unique" weapons: their scarcity as commodities gives them real, material powers. The entire game system is capitalist by virtue of its total economy

>>10090041
that's a nice interpretation

Capitalism is here to stay because its right. Stay buttmad commie

>>10090041
capitalism is based around two people mutually trading goods for mutual gain, and the development of an economic, stable, climate. This is almost non-existant in the game as the governments slave, tax people for services they don't provide, don't pay the courier for his services, and purposefully promote gambling, prostitution, and drugs to their allies.

>>10090074
No, capitalism is based around the extraction of profit from the people who provide goods and services through their labour, by a managerial/ownership class who provide nothing. There are no "economic, stable, climates", only lesser degrees of mismanagement.

>>10090041
Obviously there's a huge emphasis on materialism but I don't see how that's necessarily capitalistic, especially when all the stuff you do in between getting new things is designed to be the primary source of enjoyment.I think this argument would probably apply better to pure grinding games like diablo, but even then the grinding and collecting is ostensibly building up to playing the endgame content. There's also no markets/real exchange happening with NPCs and unless I'm wrong I don't think materialism alone is exclusively capitalistic.


Anyway this thread is >>>/his/ no mention of books so far.

>>10090082
According to who? Karl Marx and Stalin? Who had no education in economics as a professional skill?
Also, all of the tribal raider gangs like the vipers and powder gangers in the game would count as communists, which is what your people are.

>>10090074
You're talking about content, I'm talking about form. What takes place when you suspend your disbelief (slavery, profligacy, etc.) is distinct from what *must* occur for the physical game world to function. In other words, there is an ideology that informs the physical mechanics of every game. In FNV, the existence of items as named things that can be traded within a definite functional currency in the form of caps, denarii, or NCR dollars is enough to make the entirety of the game dependent on a capitalist system. Money is treated as a natural, qualitative constant that can be modified only quantitatively. Neither Legionaries nor Great Khans can escape the necessity of item management.

i didn't think about looking at the gameplay but i guess it backs the argument up pretty well

the main theme of the game was about rebuilding the new world in the image of the old. all of the factions in new vegas derive their identity from the pre-war world of capitalism despite the fact that the world ended because of capitalism, even with the knowledge that capitalism will destroy the world the ideology is too strong for people to let go or imagine anything new.

>>10090041
Actually i thought about it better and you're wrong. The idea of unique weapons as powerful artifacts is derivative of the idea of the "Artifact" being an object that represents both the status and the power of his wielder. For example Excalibur in the arthurian cycle, or the One Ring in LOTR. Unique weapons are used in this sense as a means to give the player satisfaction from achieving a high in-game status (after all the main driving force in the gdr narrative is the reward at the end of the quest). This is also the reason why lategame powergodding in bethesda game is so fun, but gets boring after a while. I'm >>10090047 btw.

>>10090103
Imperialism and jingoism and state-sponsored lotting and raiding is not capitalism. Slavery is inherently anti-capitalist.

>>10090121
I'm >>10090047. Sorry i linked the wrong post.

>>10090112
>the romans, literally nazi usa with a regimented aconomy, and colonial territory of california were capitalist
you need to stop seeing everything as capitalist because it didn't exist in those places

What did new vegas have to say about Hegel again?

>implying video games have any sort of ideological depth outside of "good guys may do bad things and bad guys may do good things"

>>10090124
>Slavery is inherently anti-capitalist.
No, it's absolute capitalism where even human life is viewed as a commodity. In this form of capitalism humans exist to be rounded up as slaves just as trees exist to be chopped down for lumber.

>>10090205
All you're doing is smearing
>this form of capitalism
you're not actually offering and evidence that its capitalistic. As you're not allowed to accuse people of crimes without evidence acceptable in a court of law.

>>10090208
If slavery isn't capitalism then to what economic system does it belong?

Which is it /lit/?

>>10090228
torture
>>10090227
slavery belongs to the criminal code and The Law as proscribed and written by God.

>>10090121
But isn't the idea of the commodity essentially a development of the idea of the artifact? Since during the Middle Ages great deeds and power were popularly considered inseparable, didn't e.g. the relics of St. James have real, material value due to their ostensible "deeds"? That is, because they had been "touched by a saint" (they were once his) they know have value in the form of sacred powers. Isn't the commodity just a more generalized form of this? The unique weapons certainly borrow that older conception of sacred power, but they maintain the general quality of being "mass-produced," so to speak. While a relic of St. James must be truly unique (there can only be one thing that looks like it; this or that specific bone fragment cannot be mass produced), "This Machine" is merely a powerful battle rifle among many unremarkable battle rifles.

>>10090082
Managers do plenty. But the most important role they serve is as the first layer of insulation between the bourgeoisie and the proletariat. The second and third are the police and military/PMCs. The violent state apparatus is a problem for any conscientious marxist.

>>10090236
another words capitalism...

>>10090276
The Law is not an economic system

>>10090228
guilt

>>10090282
God you're dense. The "Law" you speak of is just a regulation of capitalism. Capitalism without regulations is still capitalism. I'm not sure where you are confused on this...

>>10090228
The mind

>>10090228
>belief isn't there

>>10090301
Karl MArx basically wrote that in a communist society there would be no police officers or judges, is anything that is not a part of his fantasy: capitalism?

>>10090238
>But isn't the idea of the commodity essentially a development of the idea of the artifact?
Not quite. The equivalent of a contemporary status symbols (for example a Lamborghini or a big house) in the middle ages were other status symbols (for example a castle or clothes made from exotic materials). The difference between a status symbol and an artifact is that, imo, one exist only in a fictional narrative (because of the fictional narrative and for the fictional narrative) and the other is a real-world thing, based on real world parameters which determinate its value as a status symbol. Everyone irl (in theory) can get a Lamborghini, but in the videogame only you can possess Unique Weapons, as they are a testament of your unique (within the fictional world) ability. I'd also say that is the idea of the powerful artifact that derives from IRL status symboles and not the other way around.

>>10090322
>status symboles
*status symbols

>>10090320
Who's saying anything about communism? Did you reply to the wrong anon, anon? How is your question even remotely relevant to the topic of slavery being or not being capitalistic?

post /lit/ games

>>10090346
Man, i really wished they gave Kirkbride more artistic freedom. 36 lessons is one of the best things to ever happen to vidya.

>>10090346

>>10090358
i'm sleepy as fuck and i write like a retarded mongoloid
sorry

>>10090345
someone started quoting marxs theory of labor in the previous statement.

>>10090322
>Everyone irl (in theory) can get a Lamborghini, but in the videogame only you can possess Unique Weapons, as they are a testament of your unique (within the fictional world) ability.

This confuses me because you say "everyone in theory can get a Lamborghini," which places its power squarely in the realm of the fictive, but you also say unique weapons are testaments to your ability "within the fictional world." Both of these seem to me to derive their powers from fictional narratives.

If you're saying that a Lambo is necessarily desirable because it's a "performance machine," that's a capitulation to advertising. I personally would have very little use for Lambo, and I'm certain that most people who own one have little use for it as well (other than to show off status).

What gives the unique weapon its material power in the game? It can't be "your unique ability" because: the weapons are objects outside of your character's self, and many of the unique weapons (Blade of the East, Big Boomer, etc.) are carried by NPCs. Unique weapons are such only because they are programmed to be the powerful among the common. The premise of the unique weapon is an inversion of the principle of the artifact: "Scarcity gives power" in the former, "power is scarce" in the latter.

>>10090359
i really want him to play new vegas just to see what he thinks of it

>>10090385
Uhm you make some good points. Let me reply.
>This confuses me because you say "everyone in theory can get a Lamborghini," which places its power squarely in the realm of the fictive, but you also say unique weapons are testaments to your ability "within the fictional world."
I wasn't clear enough here. A Lamborghini is a status symbol because it symbolizes your high social status (not because it is a "performance machine"), but everyone can obtain it. In the realm of the videogame you are the only true actor, a NPC can't really "posses" anything because it is just another object in a worlds of objects who only acquire meaning in function of the only subject of the narration: You (i mean the real You, not the videogame alterego You). Everyone can get a Lamborghini in real life, but only very few do. Only you can acquire the unique weapon (because you are the only true actor as i said), but you always do (unless you're a 90 y.o. man who can't play videogames).
>The premise of the unique weapon is an inversion of the principle of the artifact: >"Scarcity gives power" in the former, "power is scarce" in the latter.
Disagree. I think you're also confusing the fictional level with the metafictional one (this is one of the wonders of videogames). What gives Excalibur its power? On a fictional level, it is powerful because various reasons, on a metafictional one, because the author decided so. How is this different from unique weapons?
btw i'm hungry as fuck so i'm gonna eat something and then come back to this conversation.

>>10089968

>speak to Caesar
>no option to correct his plebby-as-fuck interpretation of Hegelian dialectics

>>10090562
i think arcade calls him out on it when you leave the tent, not sure

>>10090562
b-b-but Caesar is meant to be a pseud

>>10090544
>A Lambo is a status symbol because it symbolizes high social status
Circuitous logic

>Everyone can get a Lamborghini in real life, but only very few do. Only you can acquire the unique weapon (because you are the only true actor as i said), but you always do (unless you're a 90 y.o. man who can't play videogames).
But that is the problem of a fictional, self-contained commodity society: everyone can always have everything. This is better explored in an online game. If everyone had every weapon in e.g. WoW, the game would be boring and monotonous. Without the concept of artificial scarcity, an online video-game really couldn't function. Single-player games are this at an individual level, i.e. since you really are, as you say, the only player, you only have to "beat the game" (as opposed to other players in the game) in order to become essentially "all-powerful." This is what makes single player games "easier" than multi-player games.

I totally agree with your fictional-metafictional distinction, I'm actually using the same one. But that which separates unites as well. The meta-fictional provides the essential underpinning of the fictional. In other words, one's "style" (i.e. philosophy of aesthetics) is informed by one's philosophy in general, if we take philosophy to be a theory of practice.

>>10090346

>>10090562

>tfw Legion's faction is underdeveloped, and you'll never see the plotlines and missions there were fragments of.

>>10090609
>A Lambo is a status symbol because it symbolizes high social status
>Circuitous logic
Lmao sorry about that one, i mean to write something like "A Lamborghini symbolizes high social status because it is hard to obtain and it means you have a big penis and you are rich blablabla".

I agree with your analysis of WoW, but disagree that singleplayer games are also like that. In a singleplayer games you cannot not get the Artifact. You already have the Artifact, potentially, in the moment you start playing. In wow this is different because the objects exist in a social context (many actors). Arthur always gets Excalibur. He cannot not extract the sword from the rock. I think the same is true for singleplayer games. This is what i mean by an "Artifact".

>I totally agree with your fictional-metafictional distinction, I'm actually using the same one. >But that which separates unites as well. The meta-fictional provides the essential underpinning of the fictional. In other words, one's "style" (i.e. philosophy of aesthetics) is informed by one's philosophy in general, if we take philosophy to be a theory of practice.
Agree but i don't see how unique weapons can't be considered artifacts.
i feel like we're talking on two different levels tbqhs

>>10090112
>the world ended because of capitalism
>the in-game reason is because the communist Chinese nuked America

>>10090562
Do you have the dialogue or know the jyst of what he said?

>>10090074
>capitalism is based around two people mutually trading goods for mutual gain
nigger what
People trading happened millenia before capitalism started existing.

>>10090689
>China
>Communist and not state capitalist

yeah no buddy

>>10090715

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NyeTaXv6o4Y

Starts at 1:15 or thereabouts.

>ask Caesar about dialectics
>smugly tells player to read more
>proceeds to regurgitate the Fichtean thesis-antithesis-synthesis triad and claims it is Hegelian dialectics

Caesar confirmed for /lit/ user.

>>10090129
>capitalist
>capital
>cap

>caps

>>10090742
>The NCR is bad because it's bound to fail
>Let's emulate an empire that also failed instead
Ceasar WHAT THE FUCK man

>2017
>still thinking capitalism is an ideology and not an alien intelligence invading from the future

>>10090742
Isn't that a good way to sum up Hegelian dialectics though? I mean how else are you going to "basically" explain Hegel. It doesn't make much sense in the context of his empire though.

>>10090675
You definitely have the weapons in single player games potentially, but to me the same logic extends to multi-player games. Don't you have the weapons potentially in WoW? If you lack this potential, how could you acquire the weapons in any event? The number of actors necessitates an ever-increasing game difficulty; the capital of skill is continually deposited and renewed in the game by those who play it. In a single player game, there is a definite cap to this; the story can be fully completed.

In the story of Arthur and Excalibur, there is only one of each. Certainly the story has been widely distributed, copied, emulated, etc. I'm sure some people have had delusions of being King Arthur. But in the end, the logic of the story provides for one King Arthur. He is physically described, he does definite things, he has a temporal arc he must follow.

An open world video game modifies this on two fronts: first, the strict temporal structure is disregarded in favor of a broad one, and second, the artifacts are mass produced. The events of the Arthurian legend follow one another chronologically, while in FNV this archaism is confined to the "main story." All other quests can be done in more or less any order. And in the Arthurian legend, there is only one Excalibur. Arthur does not come across any Excaliburs that are not imbued with power, any swords that look exactly like Excalibur but are merely called "longsword" (or whatever). This property of exact replication is inherent in commodity society, but not in e.g. a strictly feudal one.

Obviously in games like Legend of Zelda the structure is different; Link will have one Master Sword, but things like arrows and bombs emulate the mass produced. There are fewer commodities because the game tries to recreate a less developed form of commodity society.

>>10090786
ok grant morrison

>>10090346
>>10090358
agreed. love MK and the batman games are good but I wish he'd write more fantasy.

>>10090720
But in the game they were hardcore commies tho

>>10090151
>elon musk

>>10090718
they might have been capitalists then, but most democracies were more intent on conquest than stability and infastructure back then.

>>10090689
Different sources within different fallout games point the finger at different people who started firing nukes. At times China is blamed, at times the US, at times it seemed to be a confusing mess. The Mothership Zeta dlc implied it was caused by the aliens.
My favorite interpretation is that Vaut-Tec had invested so much into preparing for the bombs, setting things up for the post-bomb landscape, and infiltrating both the government and military that they pulled the trigger themselves instead of waiting around for it to occur from some real conflict. Maybe to some extent they're still out there pulling various strings. A game exploring that would be much better than the shitpile that was 4, in my eyes.

>>10090825
How could they be communist if they were fighting for a state?

>>10090884
UHH bruh you might want to crack open a wikipedia or something. communism isn't wearing a DSA shirt and screaming impeach trump, it's the system of government wherein the state controls literally everything. supposedly because a top-down solution makes sense when clearly it does not. witness mass starvations in communist regimes, most notably the inept collectivization of the soviet union. 10/10 good bait fuckface.

>>10090818
The more I think about it, the more I think the Thalmor are supposed to be a Jewish characterization.
>big nosed
>elitist
>secret masters behind everything
What did Todd Howard mean by this?

>>10090891
Ok, here is wikipedia
"ultimate goal is the establishment of the communist society, which is a socioeconomic order structured upon the common ownership of the means of production and the absence of social classes, money[3][4] and the state"

>>10090891
>UHH bruh
>crack open a wikipedia
>the state controls literally everything
Yeah this sounds like just about exactly what I would expect when somebody learns all of their political theory with cursory glances at the first paragraph of a wikipedia article

>>10090896
yeah communism and our democratic republic are the same shit right?

>absence of social classes
a preposterous promise no matter what manner of snake oil you are selling. god would have to remake humanity.

>absence of money
ok soooo how do we manage the fair distribution of resources? what if we just hand out tokens that people can exchange for goods and services and transactions are kept in ledgers which are turned in to the state BRILLIANT

>absence of the state
right right We The People are also the body of the state and have ultimate authority but much like the soviet political class humans have a tendency to gather economic and social power in oligarchies at the top

humans are apes and i swear to fucking god communism is the dumbest shit in the world why do american children fall for this garbage

>>10090945
Stop posting any time now

>>10090876
>they might have been capitalists
Dude you don't understand what capitalism is about.
I'll give you a very big hint: it's in the fucking name.

>>10090967
you aren't getting a (You) from me faggot i mean besides this one but I LIKE FILLING OUT CAPTCHA

>>10090945
>communism is unrealistic muh nature muh soviet failures
Yes good post nobody has ever come up with such nuanced and unique arguments anon this is such solid discourse you have set so many "american children" straight

>>10089968
Courier runs independent Vegas best new ending

>>10090973
Dude: they had money

>>10091025
>communism is unrealistic
>muh nature
>ALL HOGWASH MY MAN

yes good post nobody has ever tried Real Communism (TM) yet and I hope Hillary runs again how do you like my shirt it cost $23 #ImWithHer #SinglePayer #StrongerTogetherAgain

>>10091057
Define "money."

>>10090205
so absolute capitalism has no economic agents and only commodities? how is that capitalism again? who is going to exchange the commodities?

>>10090276
>another words
wew

>>10091076
The economic agents are treated as commodities that exchange themselves, idiot

>>10091065
I was mocking the fact that you saw people in a thread discussing communism and capitalism and saw it as your duty to come tell everyone how Real Life is nothing like communism and how people starved in the USSR as if this was a unique revelation none of us had ever considered in the past. If you noticed, the post you just replied to is my only one so far, and I never defended communism, capitalism, or hillary (lmao), I explicitly insulted you.

>>10091081
I thought they were rounded up, chump

>>10091025
>unique

The sky is blue. The truth doesn't have to be unique.

>>10091089
I'm not the person you originally responded to. I think you're both wrong.

>>10091098
whoa, I thought my position was just the negation of that anon's -- what's yours, then?

itt: a bunch of psuedo intellectuals look way too deeply into a childrens game

>>10091065
>hillary clinton
>communism
this is your brain on /pol/

>>10091099
Capitalist commodity society is perpetuated by fabricating tacit assent. The majority of proletarians and bourgeois alike are slaves to ideology; they round themselves, and each other, up.

this went from a really good thread to a really cancer thread

>>10090346
Pharaoh (1999)

>>10090189
>Lonesome Road is not about American exceptionalism and the Frontier hypothesis
>Old World Blues is not about the joy of exploration and cognitive dissonance
>Dead Money is not about triumphing over your past without losing yourself
>Honest Hearts is not about the social conflict of indigenous groups being corrupted by outside societies
haha, fucking video games are dumb, right?

>>10090082
Not really, if you want to debate capitalism you should know what it is first. What you're thinking of would be industrialism, feudalism, etc.

Capitalism has nothing to do with labor, capitalism is just a trade system with little-to-no state intervention.

If everyone had a farm and there was no controlling government, they would instinctively trade the different commodities for things they need (Instead of having their own product in surplus), that's capitalism. What Adam Smith did was just name it, and then Capitalism itself has different 'sub-systems', Feudalism, Liberalism (Which is more socialistic, but still capitalistic), etc.

Please refrain from looking like an uninformed dumbass like >>10090052 , while you probably see him as a complete moron, you don't actually understand what you're talking about- much like him- and you're also a complete moron.

>>10090794
You again make some good points which oblige me to reply. But since I'm a lazy fuck i'll respond tomorrow.

>>10089968
House is the archetypal Anglo

>>10090022
The romans weren't capitalist. Caesar designed his empire to be unstable. He intended for the legion to collapse after his death so as to create a reset of the status quo for something better. the legion itself is in line with the stability of capitalism.

>>10091288
>Capitalism has nothing to do with labor, capitalism is just a trade system with little-to-no state intervention.
No it's not. Capitalism is the use of capital as a multiplicator of labour.
Capitalism is investing part of your profits in things like research, new machineries, etc. that will further increase your profit.

Funnily enough farmer trading they're goods for other goods they needs with no surplus and no state supervision is textbook communism

far left: ncr
centris: caesar's legion
far right: tunnel snakes

>>10091556
caesars legion is anarchism. NCR is a fucking totalitarian military state, how is it far lef- I guess that makes sense

>>10091556
Caesar's legion is a monarchy ready to crumble after the dead of the king (or player takes over)
House is centrist
Player is enlightened gnostic Budha ready to overdose on dmt and achieve chim.

>>10091604
Caesar legions is Hitlerism

>>10091617
Hitler never designed his empire to crumble after his death

>>10091622
Heh

>>10091617
Caesar's brain tumor had more intellect than hitler.

>>10090825
same thing u apologist faggot

>>10091633
What? his government was designed to be very stable while caesar designed his to be incredible loose and chaotic. Hitler just lost, no kinda state will survive losing a war with their existence on the line

>>10091655
Hitler inspired his own commanders to blow themselves up with hitler because he was so bats hit insane they would rather die and let someone take over.
>source killing hitler History Channel.
With caesar and his assain with was more a power struggle motivated to the player as 'he has extra meat in his head'.

>>10091678
Hitler only did that after he had already lost, that wasn't an effect of his states political structure, it was a matter of how to handle a sinking ship.
Meanwhile caesar tied the survival of his legion entirely around the leader with absolutely no other structure.

>>10091573
>legion
>anarchism
They force everyone they find to be assimilated into the state or die, raise every able-bodied male into the military from childhood, and crucify anyone who resists the state or possesses alcohol
>NCR
>totalitarian military state
They elect representatives and are the stereotypically huge, overreaching bureaucracy to the point of incompetence, there's a huge military presence in vegas because it's a frontier

hello /v/ what fallout game should i play?
this ncr and caesar's legion stuff sounds cool

>>10091705
>They elect representatives and are the stereotypically huge, overreaching bureaucracy to the point of incompetence
they offer protection under the premise that you have to submit to the ncr military state, they make people do jobs that fit the states needs with no free market. You don't see the full extent of the military state because they haven't taken over completely there yet.
Caesars legion has an organized military system but absolutely no systems for how to allocate and maintain power

>>10091726
Of the new 3d fallouts there can be absolutely no discussion that New Vegas is the best (and only good one). Of the isometric ones, both 1 and 2 are good, 2 has a bit more cringy popcultural references but I still like it more

>>10091739
How does one play New Vegas without crashing?

>>10091747
Idk, I didn't crash more than I did with any other game done with that engine

>>10091735
The ncr was specifically written to be the analog to a flawed democratic state
They don't come in as jackbooted fascists, the only people they get into real conflict with are gangs and the legion
Everybody else's complaints against them are just "I don't want to pay taxes and leave my ancap wonderland"
The legion is absolutely fascist and totalitarian. The power is concentrated entirely militarily and admittedly they didn't go into detail with its structure because 75% of the legion content was cut but if you think a regimented state with incredibly strict rules of conduct where everyone joins the military or dies is anarchist you're a retard

>>10091778
The legion isn't anarchist itself. but it's designed to collapse, creating an anarchist wasteland in its wake. it was just created to make a clean slate

>>10091739
alright man thanks, ill look into it

>>10091739
>and only good one
Disagree. 3 manages to pull off the morrowind-esque "lose yourself in this gigantic fantasy world" pretty well. It's like listening to a good ambient track. I agree that NW is better tho.

>>10091747
Mods

>>10091702
I was talking about that dude who tried to blow hitler up (not valkery stuff) and later his plane but failed.
Not that that matter because you made a good point I overlooked about Caesar handling his stuff.
Great post, I appreciate your input.

>>10091106
I'll have you know fallout new vegas is for young adults and has a PEGI rating of 16. In many countries, 16 is old enough to legally make love to a woman. Are you saying children should be allowed to legally have sex?

>>10091747
new vegas anti crash
new vegas stutter remover
Yukichigai Unofficial Patch

>>10091864
It's 18 over here.
But the south park stick of truth game is censored in some parts...
>you guessed it EU
But at q7 I had sex, like south park recommended {not bragging} but in university the ones that were into an al and other weird shit were 25+ irgins who somehow cultivated a harem.
I would rather (self a male) have my daughter have sex at 16 then 21+ ease the porn gets into their (males) fucking world.
I may say outdated things because I tenet porn was something you got into at 13 with softcover. .. but fuck shit is (as muricans would say) cray cray.
Fro. What I get from first graders (university) is butt play and not the finger. And it worries me in the sense of Borghivemind ki da sense.
Fallout does get into that sicker, not that's wrong but both sides, and the like Hey here's sex for money but what does that say about the giver and reciever...Yeah

I'm druknk and masturbation rather than do prostitution.
>Aka to shy for hooker because I think too much and think that's a good thingie

>>10091784
Wut? How so? Are you saying Ceasar was playing somekind of elaborate 3D-chess balance game instead of beeing a Romeboo? The collapse was very likely because of the slave army thing, but Ceasar was actively taking steps to prevent that by trying to make New Vegas his Rome and creating an actual state.

>>10091966
Yes caesar was playing 4d chess

>>10089968
capitalism is just unmolested trade

>>10090346
>tfw don't enjoy video games anymore like I did as a teenager

>>10090087
This is actually a discussion of Marx's Das Kapital and how New Vegas explores it's themes in a video game.

>>10090879
sounds rather interesting, definitely worthy of it's own thing.

>>10090346
Since I turned ~25 I haven't played a video game that didn't feel like test of reaction times or pattern recognition.

Even games with ""deep themes"" have the complexity of a 3 page short story, yet take 20 hours to complete.

>>10093694
Maybe, but what is the reason for wanting "deep themes" anyway? Primarily to feel something. A 3 page short story will not have the same emotional payoff, and also will not give you as much time to force you to think about such themes.

For a better look at how the NCR works when they're not on the frontier, try playing Fallout 2 if you can get it to work.

>>10093808
Actually a 3 page short story will likely have more emotional payoff, because it doesn't force me to be bored out of my mind doing menial busy work in order to hear more of the story.

>>10093835
That makes sense. You're just not into games then, which I guess was the point of your previous post. But generally, the longer you interact with something, the larger the payoff. If you read a one shot story in 5 minutes, it is easier for the payoff to dissipate more quickly.

>>10090074
You're going to trade all your time and brain power to your boss overlord in exchange for 10% or less of what you produce for him.

>>10090658
Baba yetu yetu uni eh ingguny ma hebbne

>>10093694
that's really your own fault
>>10090346

>>10090087
>you need to mention books for a thread to be /lit/ related

>>10094423
is torment /lit/? It has more text than most books. hell, it has more text than most fantasy epics

>>10091932
if butt play and not the finger worries you and you think children should (not american children, but pure, pristine, pedigreen european children) should indulge themselves NOT in rampant sexually promiscuity? --why not? fallout is NOT a promiscuous game as promiscuousness is defined as sexuality and although SOME of the women and animals character and unusually and erotically arousing the majority are in fact ordinarily non-sexual polygonic compositions. now, the question irregarding irrespective of whether of not it's a game for adults, if sex is nominally for adults although practiced by children, but this game likewise is nominally for adults although practiced by children, is that the truth and is this game really actually like sex as you are supposing? i've had sex once or twice and although i've never played this game i bet it isnt as sticky.

>>10093950
I dont have a boss. And the machines do the work in factories, not the person.

>>10091778

>admittedly they didn't go into detail with its structure because 75% of the legion content was cut

This makes me feel the same way that the missing +4 hour directors cut version of The Assassination of Jesse James does.

>>10091245
underrated (post (game as well))

>>10090228
10. Suffering

>>10093066
You need to be over 18 to post here.

>>10094256
I have stopped playing shitty AAA games long ago and these days either play PC games from the 90s/early 2000s or indie games. Those are about as "thoughtful" as you can get. They still feel like busy work designed for people who have a need to "kill time". The whole consumer base parrots the idea that the more hours they squeeze out of a single idea the better "value" you get.

>>10094856
have you played AoD? I can recommend it.

>>10090346
Pinecone would love Cuphead

>>10090742
>is Fichtean and not Hegelian
Kaiser is big brain, you are small brain.

>>10095320
Seezar has Hydrocephalus

>>10094700
not an argument

>>10095202
You like it, not him

>>10090742
>Tell him he's wrong
>Promptly beheaded

Yeah good plan

>>10096046
>beheaded
Crucifixion is their preferred method of execution.

>>10096061
Crucifixion is dangerous for thought crimes. If you're executed for proving him wrong on something it probably wouldn't help them to let you yell how you corrected him to all the passers-by.

>>10096061
really? do they actually show it in the game?

>>10096156
yeah you can even find some that aren't dead yet

>>10096151
Good point, but in that case he would probably get one of his praetorians to punch your head off with his glove-mounted shotgun.

>>10089968
Read Accelerando.

>>10090760
Did you . . . did you read that post?

>>10090787
It makes some sense as an excuse for his barbarism.

>>10090895
They're not very secret about it. Nor are they particularly money-grubbing.

The easier explanation will always be that the writers were simply uninspired.

>>10090228
Success.

>>10090760
This is such a shit argument. Every type of state has existed and then """failed""". The roman empire has lasted longer than usa has existed, it didn't fail, it just encountered a series of unfortunate events.

>>10097124
> Every type of state has existed and then """failed""".

What does that tell you about states?

>>10091864
your logic is skewed

>>10090346
Super Mario 2 on nintendo was pretty fucking dope nigga

>>10090228
Love/Suffering, which are the same thing

>>10097130
By state I mean literally any type of government ever deviced. Nothing yas shown to be above failure. It's stupid to judge a type of government invalid cayse it has failed, cause there's no such thing as a state that can't fail

>>10090742
Even though I dont really get his Thesis-antithesis theory, I don't see the issue with his points about how the NCR is begining to fall apart after their leader Tandi held control over the faction in what could be understood as a dictatorship.

>>10091269
>Lonesome Road is not about American exceptionalism and the Frontier hypothesis
>Old World Blues is not about the joy of exploration and cognitive dissonance
>Dead Money is not about triumphing over your past without losing yourself
>Honest Hearts is not about the social conflict of indigenous groups being corrupted by outside societies
correct

>>10090189
Why do you feel this way? You realize these are massive projects that lots of people devote themselves to and apply themselves sincerely. Why would it be impossible for them to try and make nuanced themes for their stories?

>"The media creating wants and branding has nothing to do with capitalism, it has everything to do with human psychology. Even in a perfect (communist) utopia you could not kill off capitalism because capitalism is the sublimation, the "correcting" of the natural human impulse of envy. It either bubbles up and corrupts you, or you create a natural outlet for it. There aren't alternatives. If global capitalism implodes from the weight of its inherent contradictions, it will simply be replaced by... global capitalism. Because it's run by humans."
-The Last Psychiatrist

http://thelastpsychiatrist.com/2010/09/the_legend_of_steven_colbert.html

>>10097324
envy isn't a human universal, it's a cultural phenomena

>>10090359
Which of his books is this from?

>>10091604
House is a technological progressive but justifies an absolutist liberal state. Progress however, is not neutral. House's technocratic state would devolve into the same situation that inevitably lead to the Wasteland.

What do you all think of planescape though

>>10090359
that quote reminds me of the essay by borges about kafka and his predecessors

>>10090094
>Karl Marx and Stalin? Who had no education in economics as a professional skill?
>as a professional skill

Wow, dude. Please mince your words more. I'm amused by the thought process that undoubtedly came up with this line.

>>10097412
Absolute drivel spawned by steampunk proto-redditors. I don't understand why the writing is praised at all, it's simply embarrassing. It's extremely hard to pull off the style of writing they went for in this medium and they just weren't talented enough. Video games should rely on subtext and other visual aspects of communication afforded by the medium instead of text dumps unless there's good reason or good talent behind it.

>>10090359

>ywn play Gothic DVD games with Slavoj

:(

>>10097758
>unless there's good reason or good talent behind it.
Most people would say both. The engine didn't allow real cutscenes of any real value

This is the smartest vidya

>>10090094
>Karl Marx had no education in economics

Please hang yourself by the neck until dead

>>10090876
You clearly believe capitalism to be any form of trading goods for money but it's not. I'm not going to go into it because you seem to not even have a Wikipedia level of knowledge about the subject so I'd suggest you go read up on it a bit more.

>>10090891
>communism
>state

Pick one.

>>10091108
>implying /pol/ has a brain

>>10089968
big brain political theorist:
>general principle

small brain video game developer:
>corollary of political theorist's principle

>>10090041
>This is embodied in the "unique" weapons: their scarcity as commodities gives them real, material powers
Ahh thats the story with Exalibur and the Spear of Longinus i finally see now what enchanting tales of commodity fetishisms.

>>10098452
Why don't you read the thread before responding with a criticism that has already been answered you goddamn retard

Extreme far right: never leave Goodsprings, spend your days getting shitfaced with Easy Pete, while blaming NV libtards and ghouls for every bad thing you can think of.
Far right: house (ultra-capitalism based on the absolute monopoly of every resource), legion (imperialist fascism in a tribal setting)
Center Right: ncr (republic which is really a corrupted oligarchy)
Centre: yes man (society is managed fairly, individuals can frolick and be independent, as long as they'll not harm anyone else in the making)
Armchair leftist: you can't bear the brutality of the Wasteland. You do some odd jobs in New Vegas and then you spend the rest of your life in casinos, drinking to forget how disgusting the real world really is. Hey, you might have been an useless piece of shit, but at least you've got your integrity... right?
Far left: end the game as an independent and roleplay as a communist statesman who, for once, can actually rely on unrealistically advanced technology that in itself achieves post-scarcity material conditions. That said, you are too socially conscious, so you end up genociding every casino tribe in New Vegas. Now the city can finally be a safe space for three thinking individuals, and you must admit it: it's really boring. It's only turists and robots. Well, at least everyone is well fed, aren't they?

>>10098461
Theres no point reading a longass thread if i can immediatley just cause butthurt to you buy pointing out that your babblings are inane as soon as possible?

>>10098486

>>10098475
Yes-Man is libertarian, it would just be akin to Mad Max afterwards.

>>10098501
The achievement picture and quest name imply otherwise.

>>10089968
Yeah man, buying and selling stuff is pretty evil.

>>10097758
>I don't understand why the writing is praised at all

It's easy to see why when you see the competition it had/has.

>>10098501
What are you talking about? Yes Man just improves the management of New Vegas by swarming it through securitrons while having full access to the resources of Southern Nevada (which includes pre-war technology, such as the Hover Dam and the NCR power grid).
It would be a capitalistic utopia: the institutions that control justice can't be corrupted, and their judgement is infallible, force can't be resisted and, most importantly, who is in power genuinely cares about its own citizens. It is quite literally a post-scarciery free society managed by an IA.

>>10097758
Most video games are produced by corporations by big teams who make choices based on demographics. New Vegas was just a nice game, limited technically but still tolerable, which was produced by a bunch of dedicated people and written by a bunch of non-corporative writers. It's not Shakespeare, but it's still much better and meaningful than most of the trash churned out by the vidya industry.

>>10090228
call me a fag if you want, but it's love

>>10099373
fag

Fuck lost Vegas. Capitalist hell

>>10090359
I really loved Gothic as a teenager, mostly because of the different societies that developed after the initial event of the setting. Gothic II was underwhelming in that matter but the inner developing of society is still greatly done. Gameplay is really awesome too, the magic based combat was kind of complicated for me IIRC but still, it's a great game, I highly recommend it.

>>10097848
>cutscenes
This is not a solution to the problem posed by anon. It is pretty much equivalent to a text dump anyway.

>>10097326
>envy is a cultural phenomena

>>10097768
>>10100089
Zizek didn't play Gothic either, that is from Morrowind.

>>10100104
The text doesn't really say much, though, just that there's a prophecy and a hero. It applies to Gothic. I haven't played Morrowind so please enlight me how the text talks about Morrowind.

>the value of a product or service is given by the amount of work it takes to make ergo employers steal from workers

Why communist believe such foolishness?

>>10100103
yeah that's what I said

>>10100120
It is a direct quotation from Morrowind, in fact I'm pretty sure it's the first piece of text presented once you start the game.

>>10100124
Prove it.

>>10100129
Oh. Well I stand corrected, how odd for the text to mention Gothic, that's quite an error. Still, Gothic is a great game.

>>10100131
I don't feel any envy

>>10090041
I guess real life is inherently capitalist then since extremely high quality items are always going to be more rare than lower quality items.

>>10090346
Vampire Bloodlines.

>>10100150
How does your biased personal experience prove your claim that envy is not an evolutionary trait in the social animal that is the human?

>>10100156
What is "quality" to you and why must things with "more quality" be rarer than things with less?

>>10096263
2stepgb

>>10100238
this guy knows what's up

>>10100240
because I'm human

>>10097326
This is a good approach to many things Marxist. "People need food to live" is simply a cultural attitude, after the revolution we will dispense with such silliness.

>>10100791
needing food to live is a human universal unlike envy

>>10100808
Nah, I don't feel hunger.

>>10090228
nothing can change the nature of a man

>>10100839
the nature of man is change

>>10100808
No, nutritionism is simply the final stage of the Hegelian dialectic that precedes the desnackization of the working class and the fall of the cheeseburgeoisie.

>>10100827
>>10100858
real funny guys :)

>>10101009
Prove that I feel hunger and that people in the past didn't eat food simply out of social convention. It's the same level of idiocy as thinking that envy is some kind of historical novelty.

>>10101053
hunger is a motivational state required to keep mammals alive that is hardwired into us whereas envy is a culturally bounded emotion which is simply a form of jealousy that individualist cultures have given rise to

Mods should delete this nonsense thread.

>>10101086

>>10101086
Have you read any Greek or Roman literature? Never encountered any examples of envy there?

>>10101187
Give me material, neurological evidence for hubris. Otherwise it doesn't exist

>video game depth

Really makes u think...

>>10090022
>Caesar literally owns people, everyone under him.
>The Khans fougt the NCR for land rights, and resources.

Hate to sound all /pol/ but these things are capitalism. It's not just about banks selling debt.

>>10101216
>thinking material things exist
when did /lit/ become so full of pseuds?

>>10101317
define capitalism for me nigger
Caesar doesn't give a fuck about these things, branding him is useless

>>10097324
>The Last Psychiatrist
this blog has very good writing. i can't say i agree on all points (in other articles), but damned if i'm not entertained.

>If the founder of Religions For New Atheists, Sara Miller McCune herself, had received an electronic rape threat from some Fox News stenographer in a Kentucky man cave, you think she's dialing 911? From her apartment? She would have waited until she got to the office, waved her hands like in Minority Report and her lawyers would have midnight Seal Team Sixed him while he was overhand jacking it to interracial porn.

or this piece of distilled snark:

>Oh, Sheryl Sandberg thinks Silicon Valley can be a boys' club? Was that why she manned up and sold us out to the NSA?

shame it's not still active; would love to pick the author's brain on current events.

>>10100839
The universe is in a constant state of change, the nature of man is no different than the nature of the universe.

>>10102136
>>10100846
HERACLITUUUUUSSS!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EuOSKzYfAgE

>>10090189
That's pretty much the ideological depth that we have in real world.

>>10101187
I already know it is in western culture, I said it is a product of individualist culture.

>>10089968
does this game run well on the ps3, I've been wanting to play it but I know Fallout 3 does not

>>10102784
both fallout 3 and new vegas run like absolute shit on ps3 unfortunately

if you have a moderately okay computer you could probably run it on that, there's performance enhancing mods for pc that are small and easy to install

>>10102792
My gaming PC was a high-end machine in 2002. Guess I'll just stick to Morrowind until I upgrade in 10 years

>waaa people specializing and using a currency to exchange goods and services is evil!

Holy shit get all the /pol/ /v/ brainlet video game talk off my far left avant garde forum