/lit/ - Literature

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>>11022741
th-thanks, buhh'ih

>>11022790
I haven't read it. He gets posted a lot on here and I think I'd heard of him before, maybe one day I'll catch up.

Here look, here's a poem I typed up earlier, why not read this instead? Then we can chat about it.

>>11023144
>on /lit/, a board about books
>posts in thread about specific book
>hasn't read the book
nothing new to see here

>>11023171
Well we can talk about it only don't tell me the ending.

Rosebud is a sled.

>>11023201
thanks, Jackson

>>11023479
>>11023201
Did you enjoy Gravity's Rainbow then?

>>11023201
That's so fucking surface level you absolute pleb. Rosebud is so much more than the sled.

>>11023522
yes

Where did you get the idea that Slothrop was the ubermensch? I've read the book and I definitely agree that he was The Fool but I can't see him as the Ubermensch by any stretch of the imagination, is there a particular scene that leads you to believe this? As for the 00000, I would say it probably represents death or redemption and the imipolex is what represents sin. Gottfried, the boy in the rocket (or the oven, if you prefer) seems a lot like Christ to me (remember that Gottfried has to wear an imipolex suit in the rocket, it's almost like he's wearing the sins of humanity, and the rocket is a kind of cross or metaphor for death. ) Remember also the meaning of "Beyond the Zero", and the concept of "Gravity's Rainbow" which is the trajectory of the rocket, and then what Pynchon has to say regarding rainbows: that they are actually circular and the horizon cuts off the other half from view. So if we think of rainbows in this way, what does this say about the trajectory of the rocket? That it continues beyond the point of impact or collision with the horizon. And of course this makes sense when you think about how the V-2 rockets were faster than the speed of sound, and how you would only hear the rocket coming AFTER it had already hit its mark. So if the zero is the point of impact, then beyond the zero is what happens after the point of impact, which is death or obliteration. Beyond the zero, of course, implies that the point of impact isn't the end of the rocket's trajectory, and that it makes a similar journey back to its original point. Long story short, Beyond The Zero is basically "Beyond Death", as in the afterlife. So if you have Gottfried riding the rocket along its entire rainbowesque trajectory, then you have him dying and riding through the afterlife and then maybe returning back to the launch point, perhaps resurrected. All speculation of course, and I don't have much to say about Gottfried's conception and where that falls into all of this though I could still see the Christ metaphor holding up (Franz is joseph and Leni is Mary? idk, just a thought that I haven't pursued too far, don't ask what I think the significance of the film was). Gravity's Rainbow is a book about many things, mostly it's about war and confusion but it's about many things within those spheres and I don't think it's possible to understand every aspect of the book in one read.

>>11023811
the Anubis and Bianca have me fucked up worse than anything else in the book, besides Slothrop himself obviously
they somehow represent the peak of the anti-rainbow you refer to, the bottom of the invisible trajectory, the climax of death, somehow?

>>11023811
>>11023855
also i think my goal for my first reread whenever that happens will be just to try and figure out what happened and what didn't happen, and i guess it's possible that nothing really happened. but i think at least Pirate is a real person, he may be the only real person??

>>11023674
So you admit it's the sled. Checkmate, atheist

>>11023855
>>11023909
Yeah the part with Bianca is especially difficult to understand, I don't understand it either. I've heard it referred to as an example of rules breaking down in wartime but I feel like it's more complex than that.

almost done the book and just made this.

I made the mistake of reading GR being a brainlet

>>11023151

Overall, I liked it. The archaic English seems a little forced and a couple of the rhymes (sky / audibly) don't really work, but it certainly shows more potential than most things I see on /lit/ (including my own poetry).

>>11024166
i like it, it's an upboat from me
Byron the Bulb gets strong representation as he deserves

>>11024240
did you make it past the first 10 pages???

Does any other Pynchon character compare to Slothrop?

>>11024515
I thought that Benny Profane from V. was a little similar.

>>11024512
I read all the pages

>>11024531
well you're less of a brainlet than probably at least half of the people who "read" GR then, i imagine the majority never finish

>>11024529
I agree, they are very similar.

>>11024542
Some passages didnt made any damn sense
Some were great
I was able to sustain some pretty decent discussions about the book in here just after I finished. I read it almost a year ago.
I really respect Pynchon as an author for having so much ambition.

Just finished and am utterly exhausted. Mind fucked. Pynchon litterally mind fucks you. And not in a kind of "ohhhh I get it now" mind-fuck but a slow, creeping mind fuck that never realizes itself and slowly drives you mad with paranoia. Whats this author doing to me?!

The biggest theme I took was the Preterite and the Elect. The forgotten and the chosen. Some are chosen to live and some perish. Some are chosen to be the rich and some the poor. Its all a clusterfuck of cause and effect and the reversal of it. The war continues every day.

Have you done the Kenosha Kid?

>>11024606
ahhhh man the Kenosha Kid chapter. that was the first REALLY fucking abstract acid trip mindfuck chapter if memory serves. so many good chapters like that
>Bananas at the beginning
>Kenosha Kid
>The Octopus
>The Penis He Thought Was His Own
>The Anubis
>Gross Suckling Conference
>Byron the Bulb
i feel like there were more really absurd ones (even more absurd than the Slothrop "narrative") scattered throughout the book, can't remember them all

first for Pokler chapter deserving its own fucking book and being the most sincere touching thing placed smack dab in the middle of this clusterfuck of paranoia and postmodern slapstickery. I feel like that chapter seriously puts entire modernists to shame in the middle of his own book

>>11024634
>Byron the Bulb
BASED Byron. I hope he is lighting up some anon's lamp tonight as he reads.

Half the fun of the book is the absurd seemingly unrelated side stories.
There were entire chapters where I could hardly get a grip on what was happening. Like when Slothrop somehow falls out od the Anubis and is picked up by some random cabal of smugglers. A women and a boy...cant remember their name. They board some boat and plunder it.

Next time I read it I want to take notes cause so many characters and settings dissapear for like 300 pages and then come back and I had mostly forgotten who/what they were.

>>11024657
ahhhhh yea man GREAT chapter, maybe the longest chapter in the book too eh? longest and most emotional, more emotional than most entire stories, as you say

>>11024657
Was it his daughter or not???

Fucked me up man. What the hell was with the Zwolfkinder?

And then Pölker returns and meets Slothrop for like one page and then dissapears again.

>>11024659
he got picked up by Frau something and her son Otto.... and i think Otto was the same one with the Lemming at the end of the book? maybe not i can't recall, too much going on as you say... and then he gave his monologue on the 'mother of the year contest' at the end of that chapter.... god damn how absurd can this book get? every page was like a whole new surprise of how extreme it can go
>dissapear for like 300 pages and then come back and I had mostly forgotten who/what they were.
that's really the one definitive thing that made the book so awesome. it's like Pynch knew exactly how long to withhold characters/situations/ideas to where they would be just on the brink of being forgotten, but just fresh enough to make you associate them with new "seemingly unrelated" ideas/people (people? ghosts? myths?)

>>11024682
i think it was his real daughter at the last part, i think they did swap her out at least once. Although i think its more about the fact that he would even worry about it thats telling. And I know! when he appeared again after the pig thing I really expected more of him and was excited but, :(

>>11024696
>the pig thing
holy shit i forgot about the pig outfit
god damn i literally just finished this book 4 hours ago and i already wanna start rereading
probably gonna read V first though

>>11024687
Yes Frau and Otto! Youre right it does seem like Pynchon deliberately does that. Makes you the reader feel paranoia! Am I stupid? Is that a new or old character?

I didnt realize Blicero and Weissman were the same guy for 90% of the book.


>>11024696
>the Pig thing
Oh boy haha I had forgot about that. Fucking Marvy getting his testicle cut out.
Thats when I knew for sure that Pointsman and the rest of The White Visitation/Firm/PISCES/SOE (so many acronyms) werent the good guys..there were no good guys (except maybe Slothrop? Hes more neutral though)

Special shoutout to Roger Mexico pissing all over those corporate slags and then ruining an entie dinner cause Jessica is a total biotch. Fuck Jeremy Beaver.

Whats your favorite Slothrop outfit?

>Rocketman
>Zoot Suit
>Pig Suit
>Russian Uniform
>crazy Casino shirt

Am I missing any?

>>11024736
ooooo good post, for me it's the one i just posted here >>11024718 is that the Casino shirt? i can't recall. i know it's from the Octopus episode, that was right before the Casino right? so that must be it!

>>11024634
Speaking of Slothrop, and "Scattered"
Byron is Slothrop

>>11024736
>>11024750
also i think Katje gave him something different to wear after they fucked at the casino, but maybe it was just his regular uniform? i can't recall, too much!!!!

>>11024750
Thats definitley the casino shirt! Great banter with Tantivy over that outfit. What ever happened to Tantivy? Slothrop's stream of conciousness seemed to imply he died or was taken by "Them"

>>11024768
He """died"""
What do you all think? Did he died for real?

>>11024760
nice
i think actually everyone is Slothrop, but really no one is Slothrop, and also no one is real. i think maybe the whole thing is happening in Pirate's head, but then Pirate is a product of Roger's imagination (or maybe the other way around) but then actually it's all happening in a dream which Peter Sascha is having even though he is dead. so maybe the whole thing is happening in a transcript from a seance session while dead Peter is speaking through Eventyr while he's blacked out?
holy shit i think that might really be it. had a feeling of revelation just there

>>11024657
just read that chapter yesterday in a single sitting, which for me/this book is an accomplishment and a testimony to how good it was.

>>11024776
I think he died. (((They))) took him out when they realized he was too close to Slothrop. He was gonna spill the beans.

>>11024736
Definitely rocketman outfit. The fact that he became a legend in the zone wearing a cape and some metal come on his head is hilarious. How did he even get that outfit in the first place?

this thread makes me not want to read the book desu

>>11024799
someone gave it to him at some point during the episode where he was retrieving the 6 kilos of hash for Saure, i can't recall who
but also during that part of the book came perhaps my favorite line in the entire book
>"This is rocketman?"
>"More or less" sez Slothrop
fucking 'more or less'
i don't know what it is but i just fucking love that
>>11024804
that's your loss brotha

What was with the boy and his lemming?

>>11024814
How about:
>"Rocketman....Rocketman....that poor fucker" sez Bodine.

>>11024815
really don't know man that's one of the few things in the book that didn't give me some strong'ish feeling of symbolism. think that really was just a cutesie little gimmick to give it a sort of feelgood disney movie vibe
>>11024843
ahh yea man nice, Bodine has a lot of good llines. apparently he's in "V" also, so i'm gonna read that for my next Pynch book

>>11024815
Im reaching here but....Lemmings are famous for suicide right? I think Pynchon even mentions it...they jump over the edge of the cliff when they are overpopulated and desperate for food.

Maybe some kind of allegory/metaphor for humans essentially killing themselves over resources. Idk. The boy finds his lemming and it didnt commit suicide, it only wandered off. Just like WW2?

anyone have the Zak Smith book?
i really wanna get ahold of this puppy

guess everybody went to bed, good thread fellas, was a much needed thread while the excitement of finishing the epic read was fresh

I love this book

Im about 100 pages in. So far my favorite part is the description of Slothrops desk at ACHTUNG, the page long description of all the shit that hasnt been cleaned... for years... durin the war

Also i usually dont have a problem with comprehension but i feel like i am missing a lot, sometimes i read a page and wtf just happened. Whole sentences just blur together and while i am still trying to figure out the last paragraph he goes off again into a different part of the world without ever ending the last scene, just dream dancing

>>11025188
Cntd

So far to me the book is about the paranoia of death. Reminds me a lot of White Noise

We are all doing our part to forget the impending doom (when will it strike? I wont hear it when it does. It doesnt matter. Im going to die. Just hold me. Im going to die.). Working against the “enemy” (how can we fight the enemy if we dont know who/where they are?), sex/mysticism as an escape from the fear, and ideological conflict as a means to pass the time (the round table of recent ideological masthead meet n greet, freud, skinner, etc all displayed)

>>11025188
lol bro you haven't even scratched the surface yet. strap in stare straight ahead, 'cause you're in for one wild ride

>>11025224
i thought about reading White Noise next, but my gut is telling me to read more of the Pynch man. probably gonna do V. although white noise is like literally half as long, so it's tempting

>>11024780
Woah

>>11024399
It's oneof his better ones actually.So far I've got through Queen Mab and Alastor and he don'thalf go on, it gets a bit incoherent. 'Its awful hush is felt inaudibly' , lovely touch. I agree about the archaic English affect, I used to assume that people in 1816 spoke like that but now I think the manner is a conceit. That Shakespeare wrote weirds so we ought to too. I have not extensively studied romantic literature but perhaps there is a case to be made.

>>11024399
It's one of his better ones actually. So far I've got through Queen Mab and Alastor and he don't half go on, it gets a bit incoherent. 'Its awful hush is felt inaudibly' , lovely touch. I agree about the archaic English affect, I used to assume that people in 1816 spoke like this but now I think the manner is a conceit. 'Shakespeare wrote weird so we ought to too'. I have not extensively studied romantic literature but perhaps there is a case to be made.

>>11024166
I prefer the one with the guy in a pig suit.

>>11024736
The zoot suit is badass. The rest are just jokes.

Favourite lines, go

>Fickt nicht mit die rakete mensch!

>>11024859
Bodine is more of a feature in V., he's there for quite a few chapters, rather than the cameo appearances in GR.

Finished V. and now I'm going to tackle this. Wish me luck, boys.

>>11024892
>tfw you find out this guy also does porn and got blown by Stoya on film

>>11024657
Octopus chapter is better

I'm at the part where SLothrop gets on the Anubis, I think a little over halfway in.

Just started listening to the Pynchon in Public podcast where some people summarize/discuss each section of the book. It seems pretty good so far, anybody else listen to it?

amazing book. i was wondering if id ever finish it. i feel like its only LIT that reads this damn book

i loved it although it was a slog

>>11026229
How can one man be so based?

>>11025188
Strap in for a wild ride bud. Dont worry about not understanding everything.

Just wait till Brigadier Pudding eats a dominatrix's turd.

Anyone know what the Kirghiz Light was? The one that Tichterine got in trouble for finding?

Some kind of mystical nature event?

>>11026688
I don't know I barely did any research while reading it

>>11024780
Woah dude, but is the movie at the end then a movie based on those transcripts. And the rocket coming down on the theater a rocket memed into existence just like the schwartzcommando were.

Also the ending is my fav book ending. The 'now everbody' so perfectly sublimates pynchons message. Bad inunderstandable things are coming for us, and all we can is join in together just for the hell of it.

>>11024794
But I thought Tantivy wasn't in on the scheme?

>>11023811
I disagree, I think it's more complicated than that. Rocket 00000 is designed by Blicero, 00001 by Enzian, white and black (rocket and shuttle?). I think that into these configurations are developed sets of opposites which tie all the novels themes together, but which don't fully develop into "wholes" but only sunder apart upon deeper analysis, such that they assemble and destruct themselves. This phases through the stages of paranoia, where in one moment ALL is connected, and in the next, where all connections are abruptly torn and NOTHING is connected.

Remember also that the rocket is a huge phallus (whose phallus? white western man?) which represents the the most advanced scientific research, but distorted for the purposes . White western man thrusts his logos=phallus into supposed inferior beings and colonises them with his superior science. But because the formula can be extended to logos=phallus=ego, this is a deep narcissism, the lights of the city whispering to modern man that he will never die by filling him with differentiated objects of consumption--from which he proceeds to penetrate but never receive.

Furthermore, it also bears remembering that the work is organised by THEM, ie. the autonomous non-living system which is the result of human progress and organisation but which has since detached itself and now as a dead an inorganic process organises human beings into isolated, atomistic non-loving ego-chambers where all is left is the work of improving the system for its own benefit. What's left is a kind of sado-masochism, the sadism of holding others to rules and the masochism of obeying orders (Gottfried in the rocket is also fixed in bondage gear, stuck to the machine which is killing him, isolated in the phallus of western civilisation). Hence also: "they were in love, fuck the war."

Complicating this is that the phallus is in this case ALSO a womb, containing Gottfried, acting as homonculus to impregnate... well what exactly I don't know. A white German seed to flower into... It's been years and maybe the book's due for a reread. My big take from the book is that Pynchon is a filthy pervert.

Sorry if post was messy, hope I got the big ideas across.

>>11026768
*purposes of destruction

>>11026706
Shit maybe youre right. Eithet way I think they took him out cause he was getting in the way or something.

>>11026778
I think it may be he was getting in the way of the scheme by being a rational and supportive force to Slothrop

>>11026768
Interesting take on "Them"

needs more Imipolex

>>11028502
>needs more Imipolex
I wanna know what it feels like

>>11023674
no its not lmao
he just liked the sled