/lit/ - Literature

>>11625830

Start with philosophy. Psychology was philosophy first.

>>11625857
Currently reading the Republic, I'd still like to start learning about psychology though. Who should I read first? I know Freud and Jung are not recognized academically, but are they worth reading anyway, and should I begin with them?

Preferably a modern textbook. Then William James and Edward Titchener, then Freud, then the Behaviorists, then Jean Piaget.

>>11625857
this

Science disproved psychology like 50 years ago.

>>11626229
How so

>>11626229
>>>>psychology is a science

>>11625881
Start with this.

>>11626005

Oh shit I'm reading this right now to get started with psychology

>>11625881
are they not? really? they are not studied?

>>11625830
I'm about to read his essay "On Dreams" and "The Ego and the Id". afterwards I'll be reading Jung's "Modern Man in Search of a Soul"

>>11626526
I'm actually unsure, but I've heard or read somewhere that in academic fields now that their theories have been disproved or that they don't have enough proof to support their theories

>>11625830
if you're serious about getting an overview just get an "introduction to psychology" sort of book/manual. you won't look as fancy reading it but as a starting point it's best to have a more comprehensive approach rather than wallow in stuff that has been historically relevant but proven dead wrong over time.

>>11625881
Freud and Jung are both well recognized. This meme needs to stop.

You just also have to understand psychology has moved further since then.

>>11626555
Yes by "not recognized" I meant that psychology has moved beyond or disproved their theories, not that they are not respected

>>11625830
>all these fucking STEMFAGS on my BOARD telling people that psychology has "progressed" beyond psychoanalysis
mein gott eading from ze drashgan

>>11625830
If you're going through Freud (psychoanalysis, or with lacan and laing, materialist anti-psychiatry, rather than psychology), start with The Introductory Lectures. Read "On the aetiology of hysteria" next. It's an early work. Then "The Psychopathology of Everyday Life", perhaps "Jokes and their Relation to the Unconscious", then "The Interpretation of Dreams".

I'd read at least as much before looking into Lacan's second seminar. There you will be asked to read other texts at certain times. It's a way to get into Lacan and Deleuze and Guattari.

It's also worth reading Wilhelm Reich, especially his Character Analysis.

>>11626577
Me here. I forgot to mention another author worth reading: J. J. Gibson, whose affordance theory of visual perception is a groundbreaking work in environmental psychology.

Start with the greeks

This and any psychology textbook.

>>11626229
Psychology,wether it is a science or not, deals with problems with wich we don´t have any other means to deal. For instance it has an economical impact: it makes people who won't work, work. It cuts medical expenses by reducing the prevalence of other diseases. Herpetology is a science with barely no utility. In spite of the dificulties of not havind a proper metodology psycology actually solves or palliates problems. So yeah. Whatever.

>>11626596
required secondary text
https://thenewinquiry.com/book-of-lamentations/

>>11626596
this was a pleasant surprise. i expected it to be way more dense and difficult but it's actually very user friendly.

Also, textbooks allow you to comprise a "To read" list of your own, depending on what you're interested in.

There have been so many approaches and developments in the field that i cringe everytime i see plebs still quoting freud.

>>11626236
Any actual insight that Psychology ever provided was discovered using interdisciplinary research methods that incorporated Biology, Chemistry, and Statistics.

Psychology on its own gives us shit like the buzzfeed-tier Myers-Briggs test

>>11626548
I think they are not recognized in the sense that the physical processes of the brain do not line up with their theories (ie: there is no part of the brain that can be considered the id etc...). However, their theories are still useful in that they seem to bear themselves out in people and that they have a certain amount of predictive power and therefore elements of them might be true but we don't know why. Idk though might just be talking outta my ass.

>>11626596
no you fucking cunt mental disorder does not exist if you decide it does not why can't foxes get skitzophrenzia because it is not real motherfckr it is NOT REAL
they made all this shit up to tell you what is "normal" and what is "not normal"
to tell you who can function well in a civilized place, while they go underground and fuck goats and drink baby blood.... does that sound normal ?
Can you define that as some type of disorder?
you are here, act how you want, these people will label you whatever but that shit is non existent. CREATED IN GODS IMAGE

rememner this... they are baby penis eaters, you are normal guy who wants to stop baby penis eaters. you are the one who wishes for things to not be this way, while they worship He who shall not be named, in order to secure worldly objects, and maybe even metaphysical objects, such as power or lust from women.
it all passes with the time, you are an author of biagilons (more than people who died in hologrcaust) and we all feed into the story of life. HUMAN life.
WHat do you want your role to be? Do you wish to make the world a place of love and humanity, or do you wish to follow their baby penis eating human flesh eating wearing purple robs and fucing each other in the booty hole narrative?

i prefer the love and humanity.


You can be born a midget,
but you cannot be born a (*enter dsm 'disease')

>>11626674
>why can't foxes get skitzophrenzia
Because foxes don't have consciousness and free will?
I know this is bait but for a thread about mental disorders I think this poster may have one.

>>11626658
Seems you don't know what psychology is. Psychology, to put it simply, is philosophy of Mind, just as "science" is natural philosophy (though both have been perverted by dogmatic materialists with no understanding of their own intellectual history). These two fields are not mutually exclusive, so "interdisciplinary research" is not exactly a critique of psychology, but an observation. This interdisciplinary research is psychology on its own, though only one aspect of it, as it all centers around the study of Mind.

>>11626681
are you kiddding me//// are ypi
JOKING ON ME RIGHT NOW?
this is a jok
i see that you are jokeing but i also will respond to you in a seroipis manner./. you fucking idiot. ridedle me this///

you are just jealous dog who wishes to be fox psoting out of the spirit world.
i have pity on those who claim animals do not have conciousness. they are the most concious beings here.

>>11626708
well maybe not the most concious... Humans are pretty chill about entering levlels of conciousness. heck i might say we are super concious of the world around us that we can manipulate our surrondings, but the fox does not need to because he uses us to do so... well, maybe nmot, but he understands the world and is self sufficent, something you a domesticated human could not dream of

>>11626658
>Myers-Briggs test
>psychology

Myers-Briggs is psychoanalyses, anon. Psychoanalyses is not Psychology

>>11626548
>I've heard or read somewhere that in academic fields now that their theories have been disproved or that they don't have enough proof to support their theories
You've been misinformed by overzealous people who don't actually study in the field. Many of the (traditional) claims in psychology are empirically unfalsifiable. This absolutely does not mean these claims are untrue, though the archetypal stemfag will turn their nose up to it and automatically assume it is false because it does not align with the presupposed epistemological worldview of the current scientific orthodoxy. Basically, it depends who you ask.

>>11626681
>Because foxes don't have consciousness and free will

>>11626737
>Psychoanalyses is not Psychology
Almost correct, but still, psychoanalysis is superior.

>>11626548
>>11626743
>boys discover in their infancy that their mothers don't have a penis and think it's been cut off of them, so they fear castration or sum shit
oh, c'-fucking-mon
innate and early developmental stage sex differences will be explained by genetics, period.
(I don't have no idea tho XD I'm just a biologist)

>>11626674
Mental disorders are sort of real, but sort of not real. Schizo-anon is right in that psychology can and has been used as a political bludgeon, for instance many black men post civil rights were diagnosed schizophrenic for hating whitey.

But there's no reason to think that the brain can't fuck up in predictable ways, the same way your eyes or ears or hands or feet can.

>>11626855
You misunderstand, It is not either-or. You can observe genes or whatever you do and assign assumed behaviors to them all day, but that still does not acknowledge the subjective experience of the infant in those developmental moments as psychology/ psychoanalysis attempts to do. Also, both the observed and experienced phenomena exist in relation to each other, so claiming one is superior to the other is absurd.

>>11626867
understand it is ALL a tool to control
How many times have you had something to say but had to hold it back for sake of being considered semi-normal?
however you are correct there are always patterns to all behaviors. However what if in those patterns there is a truth that you cannot see unless you are inside of it? It is truly a freeing experience to go psycho, to be out of your nut!
From the outside your house is ragedy they only see the differences, the patterns in the same behavoirs of people who have experienced this same thing! So you can only know from the outside what it looks like, what is observable, yet the man on the inside is experiencing something completely different! The actions are similar, the people experience blah blah blah, but the inside is truly where you nor I can go. We only know ourselves and what our senses tell us.

For example, we know certain colors can cause different emotions get us to do certain things feel a certain way, but can we ever truly get to the bottom of why that is happening? Surely we can observe the behavior of "this stimuli gives this action" but can we enter into each indiviual psyche and enter why the certain action is acted upon?
Can we call this a disorder of some sort? "they take this action because of this stimuli" but why is that!! Is it truly a fuck up or is it something greater than that? Something which only your hind mind can expand upon and give you the full greatness of? Is the said behavior truly a fuck up? Or is it something elseeeeee? what am i talking about

Cause and effect often lacks Why.

>>11626918
why are the actions contrived the way that they are?
certainly we cannot all be predictable, no way can the human mind which is vastly expanding constantly to the world around us be contained to "diseased behaviors" and other mishaps of the mind, are we sure that these things are not for a reason of something else?
In a utopian society, i live with perfect order, and one day I wish for death upon everyone, and They let me do it, where does my mind wander next? Some ideas are not meant to survive the sprouting faze, well maybe they can maybe the death of humanity is where we are headed, but is that a mental illness of all of us combined to allow it to go that way?
Why do sit and watch as these people who have "more" control all of our actions and send information we do not want our kids to see?
Is this a disorder of some sort?
Or is it that we diagnois people based on what we expect out of them, to say that their behavior is erratic or strange, what if that behavior will lead to a greater change on the earth? What if it will lead us away from demise? All cases are different anon, remember product of your enviornment. Where do you come from, who were you around, how much "stuff" do you have. These general trends in behaviors may be true but how true are they! ANd who says that these trends are to be good or bad?
I see a trend that squirrles often run when i approach them, am I to say a certain disease is upon them?
Remember our whole LIVES are unnatural, we are trying to live this dream, and write this story, so in order to keep all these people in order we have to tell them to be a certain way. What if in batman dark knight, he said "fuck it imma save the guy" now we have a weird part, the script was not meant for that, how would the writer feel? THe guy who created this story... i don't know what i am saying anymore

>>11626918
other people exert social pressure on what you can say without being labeled """"crazy"""" yes,

psychology-types are so thoroughly brainwashed that they've lost access to a broad spectrum of possibility, yes

However, there are ways the brain can misfire, it can happen in predictable ways, and a catalog and diagnostic criteria collection as an imperfect, but helpful tool is AN aspect of the psychology world.

Even that is subject to the underlying brainwashing by the system though.

>>11626918
Go to bed Foucault.
Adults are talking.

>>11626991
>there are ways the brain can misfire
Opinion discarded.

>>11626991
can you help me understand a brain "misfire"?
are yoe sure that the mind is capable of such a thing?
So you tell me a man who says he hears voices in his head is crazy, however how can we be certain there are not voices in his head?
He tells us there are, and to him there is, but we cannot say that we hear them. What if these voices are not negative but positive? What if these actions he is being told to take will lead us to victory?
Are we to assume that we can understand it all, are we to say that what you see is what is truly there?
Nothing is what it fucking seems and I AM SO FUCKING MAD I WANT TO KNOW.
MY LIFE FEELS LIKE PEOPLE TELLING JOKES AROUND ME BUT I CANNOT UNDERSTAND THE JOKES AND THEY LOOK AT ME AND LAUGH AT ALL OF THIS AND SAY 'HAHA HE DOESN'T GET THE JOKE'
WELL PLEASE, HELP ME HELP ME UNDERSTAND THE JOKE.

psychology is real, you can use it to control or maybe influence the decisions and actions of a person, however psychology itself can be used to influence and manipulate a person.........

pshyciatrist are some of the most demented people on this planet. they pose to have the answers to the anxieties and depressions you feel from being forced to live another mans dreams. they tend to tell you they ahve a cure for your completely unique problem.
how can they? they world is itself infinite and full of possibilies, yes you can say there is repeats but how much of it can you say is going to repeat and how much will your solutions work for the "problem of the person"
duct tape can fix a boat, but could it have fixed the titanic?

I often think, pavlov used a bell to get dogs to salivate, is pavlov himself not used to a stimulous of ringing the bell to get the salivtation? When you condition someone are you not as well conditioned to condition them? Could I possibly pimp a pimp to pimp a whore?

>>11627029
being this mentally ill

>>11627029
>pshyciatrist are some of the most demented people on this planet. they pose to have the answers to the anxieties and depressions you feel from being forced to live another mans dreams. they tend to tell you they ahve a cure for your completely unique problem.
>how can they? they world is itself infinite and full of possibilies, yes you can say there is repeats but how much of it can you say is going to repeat and how much will your solutions work for the "problem of the person"
I have always thought this as well. I really dislike how reductive one has to be to fill the role of a psychiatrist. A very anti-human thing indeed.

>>11625830
Find a more serious subject to lose the little time you have in this life.

>>11625830
Adam Phillips, Britain's greatest living psychoanalytical writer.

>>11626898
I see what you are saying. Still those explanations were too absurd and too concrete.

Has anyone seen a practicing Lacanian psychoanalyst before?

>>11626569
Wait, I have some questions about this:
- Is psychoanalysis a science?
- And what's the meaning of "that psychology haven't progressed beyond it"?

Probably propositional logic, honestly.

>>11628047
Psychoanalysis is not a science. Psychology is an applied science. Meaning it utilizes methodological and mathematical models to derive implicit or explicit evidence, through deductive reasoning, for the development of behavioral therapies.

>>11628066
So, does any psychologist still uses psychoanalysis?
I don't see why this is relevant if it's not a science desu.

>>11628066
>Psychology is an applied science. Meaning it utilizes methodological and mathematical models to derive implicit or explicit evidence, through deductive reasoning, for the development of behavioral therapies.

>unironically thinking this

>>11628207
They're intersecting subjects, yes. One can't exist without the other.

your diary

>>11626555
>moved further
>cognitive-behavioral cucks actually believe this
The science has moved backwards because all it is now is a glorified pill dispensary. No one is trained in therapy worth a damn anymore, they all just smooth over surface issues and send you back to the sweatshop. Man, telling someone to fix their sleeping schedule and eat healthy is SUCH a breakthrough, Freud and Jung absolutely btfo.

>>11628207
>I don't see why this is relevant if it's not a science desu.
I think he means psychoanalysis isn't a science in the same way heart surgery isn't a science.

>>11628066
Oh god it's this faggot again. Get the fuck off of lit you piece of shit. Take that fucking trip off. Advertising your pseud status 24/7 gets fucking annoying.

>>11628432
That wouldn't be true since surgery is a practice based off science whereas psychoanalysis is a field of its own without scientific basis

Psychoanalysis and psychology, while dealing with similar subject matter, are ultimately different disciplines. Psychology is data driven and relies on the scientific method. Psychoanalysis, on the other hand is much more theoretical, relying on the psychoanalyst's intuition and observations, rather than scientific research. In short, psychology is a scientific discipline, while psychoanalysis is a philosophical one. The two can compliment each other in some areas, but it's important to keep them distinct. For example, pretty much everything psychoanalysis says about mental illness should be discarded, in favor of the advancements in clinical psychology and neuroscience. However, the larger philosophical questions pertaining to psychology can't be satisfactorily answered by scientific data alone. Psychoanalysis is useful in filling in these gaps.

>>11628697
>"For example, pretty much everything psychoanalysis says about mental illness should be discarded, in favor of the advancements in clinical psychology and neuroscience."
>this is how STEMfags actually think
I swear, scientists are the living embodiment of Mary's Room.

Start and end with Freud because everything after Freud is turbo Jewish pseudoscience. Read Freud and then spent time reading secondary materials.

>>11625830
(Functional) Magnetic Resonance Imaging
Electroencephalography
Magnetoencephalography
Functional Near-Infrared Spectroscopy
Positron emission tomography

>>11628993
But Freud was also jewish?

>>11629677
Yes, he was. Psychoanalysis is essentially secularized Judaism.

>>11628993
>everything after Freud is ... pseudoscience
>disrespecting Jung
STOP

>>11625830
Parapsychology

>>11625830
Read Games People Play my dude. Or Varieties of Spiritual Experience if you're feeling more profound than practical.

>>11626229
>>11626658
This meme needs to die

>>11625830
The Greeks.

Read this

>>11628993
what's some good secondary material on Freud anon?

>>11626569
>He still believes that everyone secretly wants to fuck their mom
>He still believes that penis envy is a thing
>He still believes in analyzing dreams
>He still believes that the meme in repressed dreams is fully valid
>He still believes in the ramblings of an insane sex addicted jewish pseudo-doctor

>>11630886
repressed memories, sry

>>11630886
>He still believes in analyzing dreams
Hold up, if you don't think analyzing dreams is worthwhile you're legitimately retarded. God damn I hate you fucking STEM cucks. Dreams have been an important part of the human experience from time immemorial. Dreams guided men, tribes, civilizations. Interpretation of dreams has been important longer than it hasn't.

Modern man is so cucked he doesn't even have dreams anymore. Therefore, he thinks they are meaningless. Perhaps it is because he himself has become meaningless. It is not surprising that the men with dreamless nights are the same ones with no aspirations, no "dream".

Go pollute other parts of the internet with your consumptive, base nature.

>>11630886
>He still believes that everyone secretly wants to fuck their mom
You probably did when you were a prepubescent but forgot
>He still believes that penis envy is a thing
See: 95% of the threads on /r9k/, /pol/
>He still believes in analyzing dreams
Lol are you retarded to not believe this
>He still believes that the meme in repressed dreams is fully valid
lol

>>11631155
>>11631173
I dream just about every night and most of the time they are fucking meaningless in every way. A couple of days ago I had a dream that a small town next to the even smaller town that I live in, was a lot larger than it actually is, the whole plot of the dream was that I was gonna go to McDonald's

>>11631228
Do you keep a dream journal? If you just take each dream and throw it away, of course it's not going to make sense you fucking retard. You need to see what symbols recur, what themes recur, what narrative structures, what characters, etc etc etc. Over a period of months or years. Then you can do a proper analysis.

Though, maybe your dreams are meaningless. Maybe you are just a meaningless person. A person without dreams, who dreams the dream of the drone.

Read Wilheim Reichs work, learn to do some Reichian Therapy, Alexander Lower also has some good work for practical applications.

>>11631236
What kind of effeminate faggot keeps a dream journal? The most common people in my dreams are my friends, classmates, and family, in other words, people who I know and who I interact with on a daily basis.
>haha wow, you're not a pseudo-intellectual like me??? You must be a retard
lol yeah sure, I'm a moron, but at least I'm self aware and smart enough to know I'm a moron, unlike you.

>>11631236
Also according to you Freudcucks all dremas are symbolic and meaningful in one way or another. Thinking that your dreams are ''like, so deep and symboilic, maaaaan'' is the most fart smelling, arrogant, san franciscan, and self absorbed hippie bullshit I've heard of in the field of psychology.

>>11628343
This, definitly

Also LSD-psychotherapy would have been a breaktrough. If it wans't for the hippies. Psychedelics might get a rebirth, but thats a long way to go. There is some litherature that is pretty 'scientific' from Grof. (At least his early books)

>>11631255
You can have profound mystical experiences from increasing dream recall. A great way to do that is dream journalling. Definitely something to investigate.

>>11631283
To be fair though a lot of my dreams have been pretty fucking great book material. A vampire apocalypse sweeping across the world, the sun dying, being the prince of my country during the 1700's, and a bunch of other strange dreams.

>>11631270
>If it wasnt for the hippies
Did the hippies stop the research?

>>11631269
>dreams are the source of the mystical revelation of nearly all religions
>dreams were the primary guide of the New World cultures before colonization
>"lmao like who cares about that stuff? I have anime to watch ha ha"
Gee senpai, sorry for getting in touch with my cultural heritage and finding importance in something people have thought were important for thousands of years! Ha ha I should just be a normal yuppie white boy like you.

>>11631296
Exactly, its foolhardy to disregard such a potent avenue of exploration. Messing with lucidity within dreams openings up all kinds of doors of perception.

>>11631314
>>dreams are the source of the mystical revelation of nearly all religions
That sounds mildly psychotic

>>11631321
I'm not saying that dreams aren't interesting, I am just saying that the whole psychodynamic idea of ''ohhh if you lose teeth in a dream, you are undergoing a lot of life changes'' or ''ohh falling, can signify letting go of something'' that's a meme

>>11631346
You don't have to view it as concrete as that, they might not have a direct correlation to your waking life (they often do though, certain motifs and locatiosn etc). Whatever you think they are, they exist and they can be something really magnificent.

>>11631334
If you think I'm saying that dreams are a THE ASTRAL PLANE or something like that, I'm not. But it's true, dreams are the source of mystical revelation. Fucking Revelations is a dream. The Bible is full of the recollection of dreams of "prophets". Many religions are like this.

Shamans had dreams, would recount them to the tribe, and tell them what he thought they mean. The Naskapi tribe in Canada are taught to interpret their own dreams, and sometimes these dreams help them with things as mundane as hunting, knowing where animals will be. The brain does much work during dreaming. Dreaming can be trained.

An untrained dreamer dreams untrained dreams. You spend so much of your life asleep, why would you waste this time? Look at it as useless? You experience a whole other phenomenal world in the dream, you can explore the landscape of your own mind. If you train your mind enough, it can give you things.

Coleridge's Kubla Khan came from a dream. Tartini's Devil's Trill came from a dream. Dreams are the source of mystical revelation, of mythology, of art, etc. And people ignore them, many do not even have dreams? And this is a good thing? The enlightened thing?

What are you trying to prove by being so dismissive? That you're better than people who take a fundamental part of the human experience seriously?

>>11631334
maybe you are dreaming right now. Or maybe this is a dream of another man.

>>11631402
The book of revelations was written nearly 2000 years ago, and the apocalypse hasn't occured yet. The world will end sooner or later, this is not something most religions point out, it is also a well known fact, and it is going to happen no matter how little we sin and no matter how many times men like John the baptist had prophetic dreams. I'm not dismissing dreams, however dreams are merely a response from our brain trying to process information from the previous day. Are they interesting? Yes absolutely. Can they be pretty fucking good to inspire people to write? Yes, absolutely. However they are definitely not something that you should intrepret as prophetic visions from God, or your ancestors, or the elements, or whatever you believe in.

>>11631524
I'm not trying to say they're literally prophetic, I'm saying they're so important that they're the foundation of religion. That dreams were considered so profound that people have died for them.

The idea that they're "merely" the processing of mundane information into unintelligible symbols is such a modern invention, such an impotent way of thinking. The unconscious mind can support a fully realized, "physical" landscape, can create "living" personalities with their own intelligence, can weave together cogent narratives with striking symbolism. There's so much at play there, something truly surreal, something shared by everyone yet also something completely your own.

You can teach your subconscious mind a symbolic language you can both understand. Read enough mythology, dabble in symbolic systems like tarot, and your dreams will start making a lot more sense. One can enter into dialogue with their unconscious, and you don't have to be lucid for it, though that can help.

I had a dream recently wherein I went lucid, and had a long conversation with a dream personality. Explained the concept of phenomenal experience to them, asked if they had an internal experience. They seemed rather certain they did. Not proof of anything, but I'd feel solipsistic to deny them that. The dream has a mind of its own, the inhabitants can have minds of their own as well -- at least that's the explanation that makes sense to me.

I had another dream a long time ago where I went lucid, tried to find a friend of mine. I started asking an NPC questions, seemed to have much less cognition than the personality in the other dream I was talking about. They could only answer in one or two words. What are your hobbies? "Bike". How was your childhood? "Good". Suddenly, their flesh started to boil and melt downwards, a thick black ichor pouring out of splits in their skin, out their eyes and mouth. This obsidian liquid loomed over me, taking on the form of a giant frog, and started recounting to me the story of Cain and Abel, as though it were Cain. Being lucid in the dream, I tried to escape or wake up, but couldn't move. I'd never felt such terror before. I awoke as it devoured me.

Not that it was Cain or something stupid like that. But it just showed me there's some things one really can't explain with "uhhhh it's just meaningless static bruh". There seemed to be a real intelligence and malevolence behind it.

Dreams aren't some random collection of images from nowhere. There's life behind them.

>>11631612
That's a long post to say you're well on your way to become to our generation what new age Facebook aunts were to boomers

>>11631524
> merely a response from our brain trying to process information from the previous day.

There is more about it. for incstance recurring dreams can reveal a phobia, a trauma. you think about it, it reveals hidden memories, catharsis comes next, The trauma is over, the dreams themes change or disappear.

Is awsome.. if you have the balls to face it.

>>11631612
It sounds like a nightmare, and if you read the Cain and Abel story a lot when younger it will have etched itself into your memory. It's one of the stories of the bible that you get to learn all throughout your school years as a way to instill morality in you, or to terrify you. In your mind Cain was an evil man, and he has returned to you in a nightmare as filthy animal. I've had plenty of dreams of things I recall from books or shows that I found scary when I was younger, just because your dream happened to be old testament doesn't necessarily say anything else other than you may be more religious than you think and that christian morality has had an impact on your psyche, which is understandable since, I am guessing that you grew up in a culturally christian, albeit secular country.

>>11631661
Yes, that's true. But I don't believe in hidden memories. It's been disproven scientifically. If you experience something traumatic then you're just not going to forget about it like it was a certain item on a grocery list, it doesn't work that way.

>>11631664
>doesn't necessarily say anything else other than you may be more religious than you think and that christian morality has had an impact on your psyche
>anything else

well, not just anything else, it seems like is something that could determine one's life.

>>11631629
Yeah well fine. New Age bullshit without the metaphysical fuckery and more of a focus on serious investigation sounds like a positive progression.

When "proper science" finally has the technology to confirm what people have known for thousands of years, well, then I'm sure suddenly this will all become legitimate. Like how scientists denied the existence of lucid dreaming like fucking autists, and it was only until some autists performed some experiments to confirm it that it became "real".

Freud and Jung understood that "alien" (i.e. non-ego) intelligences existed within the unconscious psyche, and it's not gonna be until some turbo autismo with some gay ass machine finds a way to prove it that such intelligences will be considered "real".

Denial of these things shows a lack of initiative on discovering reality for your own, instead content to sit back and have it delivered in your lap like a fucking pizza.

>>11631173
Penis envy is for girls moron, girls envy guys for having a penis according to Freud, in the context of a child and her father.

>>11631673
ok, I've should say "hidden memories".

the memory is there, but is blocked, and not recalled for years. But is weird, it comes in nightmares somehow, or some other weird ways, like somatic symptoms. Maybe if you reach a catharsis some day, you'll get there is some logic behind it.

>>11631252
Do you believe in Orgone anon?, why would I read crap from that charlatan?.

>>11631664
Well I'm not trying to say it WAS Cain, like I said. But yes, it was associated with Biblical evil, with "pure evil" so to speak. Especially given the horrifying black ichor pouring out of some poor sap, perhaps representing some kind of "Original Sin" inside every/anyone. The dream was utilizing this imagery because it's imagery we both understood, I think. Imo it was the manifestation of my "shadow" or something like that.

That this happened in a lucid dream was what was so frightening about it. In a lucid dream, you are THERE. "I" was there, I watched this happen in front of me and it was as real as anything else I'd ever experienced in the moment. Surreal. I just had this staggering impression of evil radiating from "Cain". It felt like I was being toyed with by something much larger than myself, and in a sense I was -- in a dream, you are subsumed by the dream, it is, in fact, much larger than you. How that works I'm not sure, I think it has to do with the ego not taking up too much overall processing power of the overall mind.

This dream occurred in a time of chronic nightmares for myself. The dream itself had become antagonistic. I had another dream of chaos on a college campus, though I was making it through unharmed, simply watching people riot. I went lucid, and the moment I did, everyone turned on me and started to chase me down. I was powerless, could not fly, conjure weapons, nothing -- the dream prohibited these things from me, and seemed to be upset that I had ruined the plot with my lucidity and so was ending things by killing me off/waking me up.

Things are very different now. I have a much better relationship with my dreams, and have a much healthier psychological life in general. These things go hand in hand, of course. I won't say necessarily I derive too much meaning from dreams, take too much advice, but I certainly find the mechanics very interesting. Good barometer for how one is doing psychologically.

>>11628066
>derives implicit or explicit evidence
>through deductive reasoning
you dont know what the difference between inductive, abductive and deductive reason is do you?

>>11630007
Jung is garbage.

>>11626563
In my psych classes they always make us learn the Freud way and the New way. Methinks that they secretly prefer the freud way but have to put up a front for the normies.

>>11625830
Hermeticism and alchemy.

>>11631863
>it's an "I've never actually put his methods to practice using the explicit guidelines of his work to come to my own conclusions" episode
>again

>>11631887
>Hermeticism and alchemy
Truly the greatest Western traditions.

>>11628840
yes anon, your pathology is a result of your castration fear

>>11628343
>this is what pseuds with no psychology background think psychology is
You have to be over 18 to post here.

>>11625830
freud

>>11633744
Go tell some rich white kids to improve their sleep schedule.

>>11625830
Literally nowhere. It is all bullshit and speculation. Freud was a dishonest piece of opium-taking shit, who attributed the pathological symptoms of his patients to everyone - and added in some mythology to make his batshit (satanic, according to Nabokov) theories sound legitimate. His hatred for his parents and God also contributed.

Adler was a narrow-minded dweeb attempting only originality, not truth, and Jung was another psycho dreamer mystic moron who claimed to speak with ghosts. His examination of ancient texts involved eisegesis, not exegesis, which is a massive error for anyone attempting to extract the truth of a text.

Honestly, society's subsequent deification of "psychology" makes me understand why society has turned to utter shit.

pseudoscience. the astrology of neurology.

>>11626548
i know freud was, because most of the patients he based his theories off of were wealthy upper-class women, who probably got fucked by their dads and had to keep it hushed-up lest there was a big scandal and they lost face. in fact, his conclusions about repression and the elektra complex match the psych profile of most molestation victims. he hardly ever studied men or the mentally well. freud was a smart man, but his sample size and demographic fucked him over in the end

>>11625830

>>11635314
>pseudoscience. the astrology of neurology.