/lit/ - Literature

>>11732822
late capitalism

>>11732828
fpbp

>>11732822

Capitalism

Might be a controversial opinion but I think we're post-movement right now. Anything significant will just be the exception from the norm. I'm also completely unaware of any young writers that hold the seed to a movement. Most of the established writers still alive are very old and there's nothing that looks like that will take their place. Depressing but I hope I'm wrong.

Everyone used to read but now only a small subsection of society reads and most of theme only read genre fiction.

>>11732844
Be careful anon. In around 3-5 minutes someone will throw reading reports at you and call you retard.

(The reports say that readership is all-time high, that is: the amount of books sold annually in the West, but 99% of that is trash pop books, so the argument is invalid. It just always pops in this kind of threads).

>>11732843
theres really no up and coming writers on the cusp of anything "new"
the only contemporary "movement" that hasnt really been reflected in literature iirc is probably minimalism but i can't see how that would viably translate. i guess we're either looking at fairly permanent nothingness or, hopefully, something that no one could have predicted even though it seems like everything that can be done has been. the only direction to expand at this point is beyond the accepted boundaries of literature itself i think

>>11732822
Because the industry has been devolving into a bumbling attempt at a money laundering scam since the 50s.

Most literary movements are defined in retrospect, and not made by individual writers. We're a literary movement, so is Lena Dunham and her movement of "Lesbian Hysteric Identitarianism," Tao Lin and his crowd are the "alt-lit," and maybe James Franco, Sean Penn, and the rest of their kind are "Vanity Commercialists."

>>11732858
Isn't Lena Dunham's movement "Hysteric Fatass Pseudocomedy"?

>>11732858
>Tao Lin and his crowd are the "alt-lit,"
I weep at the state of the world

>>11732874
>are
That'd imply Tao or anyone associated with him was still relevant past 2015 or so. Their "movement" lasted for a couple of years at best.

>>11732887
That transience probably is also contributing to the so-called lack of movements- they're there, they just don't last and don't see much attention

>>11732893
But calling "alt-lit" a movement doesn't even mean anything because it's an attempt at making it seem like there was cultural force of mdma-addled nyc hipsters when Tao Lin was the only one who even wrote more than one book anyone remembers (for now and just barely).

>>11732927
a cultural force*

>>11732833
>>11732828
>Muh late Capitalisum
Capitalism is just getting started. The belief that capitalism will inevitably collapse is obviously unfounded. People have been saying the west was in late stage capitalism since the 1930's. It's not. The 'insurmountable' problems that would supposedly arise from capitalism are not insurmountable at all.

Basically people aren't reading as many books because they're choosing to watch tv or use the internet instead
>Muh capitalisum!!
That being said, under capitalism if you choose to read books you can get an almost unlimited choice of books, conveniently and quickly, and for cheap. Unironically thank you capitalism for access to all these books i'm reading.

>>11732822
Because market forces dont select for cerebral or meaningful books.
Most people want to read Harry Potter and Game of Thrones not Ulysses and Moby Dick.

I think theres a more fundamental and contentious problem, however. Society lacks any impetus and is, itself, stagnant. Most people simply subsist in modernity without any belief whatsoever from religion to ideology. Without this there isnt any spirit for writers to capture. There's nothing greater for them to invoke.
ASOIAF encapuslates this (and is, i believe, the reason for its success) as that series is, or was, about destroying idealism, heroism and meaning and reducing fantastical tales to wallowing filth and shallow atheistic materialism. Which is exactly what modern society does. There are no more heroes. There is no truth. There is no God.
This is, I think, changing.

>>11732927
Atticus Lish is the only good writer in Alt-Lit. Tao is okay, but is not on the level of Atticus. Basically anyone who is published by NY Tyrant is "alt-lit."

>>11732974
>ASOIAF encapuslates this (and is, i believe, the reason for its success) as that series is, or was, about destroying idealism, heroism and meaning and reducing fantastical tales to wallowing filth and shallow atheistic materialism
look at this fucking brainlet

>>11732974
>he thinks ASOIAF has any deeper meaning beyond being mindless genre fiction for the lowest common denominator

>>11732822
We will be remembered for Wallace, Pynchon, DeLillo, Gaddis, Barth, etc. The writers that many people tend to label "Post-modern Maximalists".

Poetry is the new frontier to mine. The novel has been exhausted for now.

>>11732974
I thought ASOIAF was low fantasy pulp with a few well placed twists?

>>11733010
Meanwhile rupi fucking kaur is being lauded as one of the most important poets of the 21st century. Poetry has a ways to go

>>11732975
>went to harvard
>is the son of a famous literary editor
There's nothing "alt" about him. That's another thing people don't understand. Being published by a small press that pretends at being "underground" like tyrant isn't an indicator of actually representing anything significantly different from what more mainstream publishers offer these days.

>>11733019
obviously I wasn't referring to commercial stuff

>>11733010
>The novel has been exhausted for now.
false, current Hegelian "genre of the era" is the novel.


>>11732999
>We will be remembered for Wallace, Pynchon, DeLillo, Gaddis, Barth, etc. The writers that many people tend to label "Post-modern Maximalists".
But most of their fiction comes from the 60s to 90s. 2000s to 2040s will be labeled after some great works coming, most likely, mostly from the 2020s and 2030s, and maaaybe some already existing ones that are their predecessors.


>>11733019
important != popular

Men don't read, only women do and the women only read absolute shit.

>>11733025
> 2000s to 2040s will be labeled after some great works coming, most likely, mostly from the 2020s and 2030s, and maaaybe some already existing ones that are their predecessors.

like what? is there really anywhere for literature to go at this point. is there any evidence to suggest that it'll somehow manage to crawl out of its current stagnant state?

>>11733032
This, for the most part

>>11733033
>like what?
Like my diary, t b h.

>>11733033
I guess we have to hope so. General relevance of literature has been going downhill, and >>11732843 might be spot on about few particular writers defining its new face without anything unifying them

>>11733070
It's really sad to see true literature just go quietly into its grave, but i guess that's the time we live in. We can always hope for a miracle

>>11733080
people managed to live through elightenment, when many anti-artistic endeavors were common and hailed as necessary. same with positivism, when many people believed that scientism is too heavy for the arts to ever regain any relevance. we shouldn't be absolutely pessimistic.

>>11732822
To have a "movement" you need a group of somewhat similar authors and contributors who discuss things with each other and whose works are in some way related. This is slightly different from a literary "era", which is just a grouping of authors who are similar overall because they all live and write in the same time period and socio-cultural conditions.

The only coherent "movement" we have these days is the one created by MFA programs, and I think we've already discussed to death how sterile and incestuous the works created by people from those programs are. The problem is that there is very little public appetite for serious literature, so the only "serious" authors that can make a living are in some way feeding from the MFA trough, with the exception of a few independent ones who all stand apart from each other.

Saw Sachin at the airport once, didn't get a photo since he only came up to my shoulder and I felt bad

The TV and computer screens

Post meta-modern diffusion of credulity in cultural narratives and consumer diversification.

>>11733148
Not to mention the MFA complex was literally funded by the CIA to make culture more sterile and controllable

>>11733341
>to make culture more sterile and controllable
False. Yes, the CIA created them, but only to boost their cultural capital during Cold War. It turned out to be viable and profitable (just like anything regarding academia) and so you shouldn't be surprised that they're still being invested in and also used for propaganda and other services.

LIST THE LAST FIVE BOOKS YOU HAVE READ THAT WERE PUBLISHED IN THE LAST TEN YEARS
I WILL WAIT

>>11733753
My five diaries.

>>11732822
Experientialism

https://nikitashorikov.com/collections/small-infinities/products/small-infinities-nikita-shorikov-paperback

>>11733033
Haven't seen any book that adequately covers the digital age.

>>11733872
exactly. gotta wait for some super late millennials/early gen Z kids to become self-conscious enough, talented, and autistic, and then they will produce the digital age defining supernovel. I'd say 10 more years.

>>11733872
Behead All Satans
Yurope
The Magnificent Third Rail
Legend of the 10 Elemental Masters
Sonichu

>>11732822
>outside of genre fiction
Real life is now "genre", so any new and important work will automatically be excluded by your definition.

https://rifters.com/real/shorts/PeterWatts_Atwood.pdf

>>11733892
Isnt behead all satans the one that gets shilled here all the time?

>>11734159
no

>>11732974
I agree, but what do you mean by "This is, I think, changing"?
And please, please, I beg you, do not answer with some Trump-ish mumbo jumbo.
Also
> If our society seems more nihilistic than that of previous eras, perhaps this is simply a sign of our maturity as a sentient species. As our collective consciousness expands beyond a crucial point, we are at last ready to accept life's fundamental truth: that life's only purpose is life itself.

>Chairman Sheng-ji Yang
>"Looking God in the Eye"
From Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri

>>11734357
Right so you're the dude who wrote it or something?

>>11732974
>There are no more heroes. There is no truth. There is no God.

but everyone with basic education knows this

>>11732822
where the fuck is joyce

also
>paul sartre

>>11734449
Two different posters. You're definitely not looking hard enough if you think nothing captures the "digital age".

>>11734159
yeah, and we found out that the author is a convicted sex offender too.

>>11734850
That's not surprising if you've seen the book.

>>11734553
Modernist obvs

YA

>>11733753
Absolute qt book

The guys at Snuggly Books are trying to kickstart two movements: neo-decadence and the pleasant (the latter being an answer to all the nihilistic horror fiction out there). Not sure if the movements will make it that far as such, but they have some legit good writers, so we'll see

>>11732822
>Why is modern literature so stagnant?
death of the literary class

>>11734850
proofs?

>>11735072
AKA: clean your room and wash yo dick, son.

>>11733328

underrated comment

>>11732822
books are an obsolete medium

>>11732828
>>11732833
epic

>>11732822
Because there're no relevant political movements that question the status quo.

>>11735373
If anything it'd give the book more "mystique" as outsider art than it being a stereotype of what you'd expect a 4channer book to look like.

>>11735878
so, i should work the convicted sex offender bit into the next book's 'about the author' blurb?

>>11736102
Might as well.

>>11732828

>>11732971
I keep thinking of plato's allegory of the cave while reading your retarded post

>>11736464
He's a tard but so are you if you think saying "late capitalism" is a valid reply.

>>11732822
Literary "movements" are post-hoc shite cooked up in the 20th century that no one cares about anymore. No one in this thread reads.

>>11734404
>"please, please, I beg you"
>"Trump-ish mumbo jumbo"
>Quotes a video game
Reddit and retarded.

>>11732822
The shinhonkaku movement for example. Although that may fall under genre fiction depending on your definition.

>>11732822
Oh, look! A chart with only English and American authors!

I don't even take it into account.

My layman's take is that it's due society becoming risk averse. Literary movements require writers, readers and publishers to have a strong will to go through the teething stage that any new idea inevitably has. The rise of technology in every day life has made life rigid and structured. Literature seems so messy by comparison. I think it's why people feel more comfortable reading non-fiction and 'learning'. Hell, I think it's why people here don't read more.