/lit/ - Literature

>>11765211
Read Nietzsche. Nihilism ought to be overcome by a great 'Yes-Saying'. Read Zarathustra.

Nihilistic despair is inherently incomplete. To feel despair in the face of whatever you feel life lacks means that your emotions still operate as if nihilism weren't the case, otherwise how could you feel the lack? To sob at the lack of meaning means that you still hold meaning as meaningful; how could that be the case? You need to recalibrate and realize that the legitimacy of philosophical nihilism has pretty much fuck-all to do with how you should feel and how you should act, once you've completed the nihilistic revolution

>>11765211
Find a purpose by exploring different concepts. Don't go for something feeble but an actually meaningful thing that will engulf your entire existence. Whether it's religion, a philosophy, an ideology or even some person, just stick with it and fight for it. I assure you your nihilism will pass very quickly.

I know he gets mocked a lot here (and probably rightly so), but watching the videos of Jordan Peterson was a major step in dealing with my existential crisis. I'd already started to consider the psychological significance of religion by reading authors like Dostoevsky and Houellebecq, and then I stumbled across the videos of Petersen and he was exactly what I needed to hear. There have been things in my mind that I've been genuinely too scared to even discuss with people because I'm convinced that they're "true" but will lead people into the nihilistic depression that I was in, but he openly discusses and challenges those sorts of views in a frank and intelligent manner. I think it's the same for a lot of other people too, hence why he's so popular - traditional approaches for depression aren't nearly as effective for dealing with 'rational' nihilism.

Another big milestone (given that JBP is a psychologist rather than a theologian) was starting to engage with more serious theological arguments. Yes, I'd dismissed the strawman beardy man in the sky, but had I ever actually seriously considered why so many incredibly intelligent people still believed in something so stupid? I stumbled across the cosmological argument for the existence of God, and found it pretty compelling. For the first time, the existence of an immaterial creator seemed to be more likely than not. I'm not quite a theist yet, but my various experiences have led me to be what I'd call an agnostic Christian (i.e. someone who accepts the possibility of God and chooses to follow the ethical principles of the Christian faith). I have a newfound appreciation for the mystery of existence, and by choosing to believe in universal morality and devote myself to the practice of these virtues, I've started to bring purpose back into my life. It's not a complete fix, but it's a start

>>11765211
meaning is inside the head outside the body DONT KILL YOURSELF just leave the body THINK ---- HOW!!

Yes it is just a phase, you eventually get tired of the void and turn it into a limitless light

>>11765211
Embrace the absurd and live authentically

>>11765211
I got bored of nihilism a few years ago. Now I just design humorous greetings cards.

>>11765827
shut up albert

>>11765211
Assuming you don't kill yourself, you'll eventually put your faith in something, and suddenly you'll realize you're living regular life again.

>>11765827
This desu

>>11765827
this is how i felt when i was like 15 and after almost a decade of trying to find ways around it i am basically back in the same place

>>11766170
My trick was appreciating the miracle of existence and then never thinking about it again

>>11766173
not even a bad way to think i guess

>>11765211
Well, I'm going on 10 years now.

>>11765278
It's true to a certain degree.When i was deeply entrenched by this specific activity i didn't question it's purpose or it's end nor did i question my existence.It was only after events outside of this particular activity that i started to question where my life was going.
>>11765313
what this anon said is right.If you want to find meaning don't find meaning in something incredibly fleeting or you will end up exactly like me.When you are constantly provided with stimulus(like most normal people are) all questions of purpose and worth directed at this thing we call life go out the window.Your question should not be about life inherent value (as no human is close to answering such question) but instead as to how i can obtain enough stimulus that would justify all matters of suffering that i will experience throughout life.

Tell me if my theory is garbage but i have an honest opinion. Why live if not to soak up as much pleasure from life as you can? Ultimately it may be pointless but pleasure and happiness are tangible feelings to strive for. A goal, a purpose being to experience as much as possible before death regardless of entropy and the void.

>>11766482
that's hedonism
the most common criticism of hedonism is that it burns you out, that you are better off living for some greater purpose that gives you happiness in measured doses, and meaning in different ways.

>>11766482
Read about Epicurus, you shouldn't experience pleasure in excess otherwise pleasure becomes less impactful. Rather you should lead a life of modest pleasure such that you never have to worry about lacking a thrill from it, instead of non-stop orgies and drugs.

>>11765211
quit being a fag and create your own meaning

Life is cruelly indifferent and there is no inherent meaning to it. Because of that you must create your own meaning and seek out the means to fulfil it, but most importantly you have to try. You won't get any results by sitting sadly in your red PJs all day:
The fastest way to get nowhere is to stand still.

>>11765211
>Is Nihilism just a phase?
Yes, either you change your philosophy, or you keep them for the rest of your life and die of old age. Either way it's just a phase.

>>11765211

Not sure if dead thread, but:

This phenomena often confuses me. What is even meant here? On close examination, what is the actual problem? It can not be some nebulous abstraction, such as existential or epistemological nihilism, rather there always seems to be a very personal concrete cause. Now, I know it can not be understood as simple unfulfilled desire etc. Since 'nihilism' strikes even those that seem to have everything going well for them. There is often some ''desire for desire itself'', i.e. one lacks determinacy in life, or is afflicted with anhedonia. Nihilism of this sort then seems to be a purely subjective affliction. It is not that one has discovered some mad black emptiness to the objective world, but that he himself has found it, in himself, in his relation to the world. So, it seems to be an odd inversion. Often it also seems that this popular nihilism can only afflict those who previously held some ''determining belief in the eternal'', so in some odd Lacanian way, a fantasy. When this is contradicted, people tend to burn out, now fully integrating the void left by the negated convictions they once had, and now seek some determinacy again, or not even seeking, but accepting this void as, ironically, an universal truth.

tl;dr: it seems that it is just people looking for a fantasy to be determined by.

Maybe I am wrong, I would like some of those afflicted by this, to elaborate.

>>11767260

Your wrong you son of the bitch

>>11767269

How come?

>>11765211
Hi!

So first I'd like to address a little pet peeve I see all over the place, but is never really noticed. Nihilism = lack of belief. You can't be plainly nihilistic, you have to be nihilistic ABOUT something. Saying you're a nihilist is like saying you "don't believe"- it's nonsensical.

If you're referring to existential nihilism (which can just be shortened to existentialism), then it's pretty much a shared sensation which people have felt since the beginning of time. The Greeks wrote extensively on it (check out the Stoic texts)! Only relatively recently (early-mid 1900s) did the word get coined and converted into a "serious" aspect of metaphysics, mainly thanks to the work of Heidegger, and following him, Nietzsche (although Kierkegaard was on that train a little earlier, moreso in his work in the realm of theology). I guess before that you would have to read Schopenhaur (who is pre-existentialism) and then maybe Hegel even before that.

But yeah, there's not really any such thing as "nihilistic philosophy"- no movement has ever really been referred to as such. If you're having trouble finding happiness, then some ethical philosophers might give you some respite. If you're looking for inherent """purpose""", then sad to say that there really isn't much support for any form of real, ontological purpose out there (why would there be?). If it's the "reason" things exist, then Heidegger might say that you need to look into capital-B Being for an answer (hint: it's time! (or more specifically, Dasein's temporality)).

>>11767320
thanks reddit

>>11766482
>Why live if not to soak up as much pleasure from life as you can?
we live in a society

>>11765827
>>11766152
>>11766170
>>11766173
>>11766179
See >>11766095

>>11766785
>>11767178
Nothing makes me literally seethe more than this anti-intellectual bullshit. Only an NPC could be satisfied with "becoming the best subjective version of themselves." Really, summerfriend? The vast majority of /lit/ believes that the objective exists, it's where the objective comes from where the disagreement stems.

>>11766482
>Why live if not to soak up as much pleasure from life as you can?
We live in a symbiotic relationship with so many good things that deserve to live. We call them virtues.

>>11767505
Prove me wrong instead of repeating memes like a limp wristed faggot.

>>11765211
>Is Nihilism just a phase?

Yes, nihilism is a reaction to a loss of idols. After a time you shoudnt care that you lost those idols anymore, after all, they were false all along.

So in a sense nihilism isnt a phase because those idols wont ever come back, but what is usually described isnt merely just this. The reaction to this loss, that is a phase. Its like someone realizing they are actually going to die at some point and thats the end of it. There is a loss of innocence with this, that you dont get to live forever, and then you realize that living forever should not have been an idol in the first place

>>11767507
>Nothing makes me literally seethe more than this anti-intellectual bullshit
>The vast majority of /lit/ beli-

who gives a fuck

>>11767260
>It is not that one has discovered some mad black emptiness to the objective world, but that he himself has found it, in himself, in relation to the world

What's the difference? The objective world can only ever be experienced through our subjective self. Hence, if I experience emptiness in my relation to the world, it is the same thing as saying I have discovered emptiness in the objective world

>>11767480
Thanks! I just think being nice, clear and un-pretentious is far more helpful than being cynical and pseudo-intellectual, as most of /lit/ is

>>11767889
Hi! That's untrue. I often have dreams, but I do not believe them to be real. One can "feel" empty (and I think that is what you are saying), that does not mean the world is empty

>>11765211
Nihilism is the end stage but your emotional attitude to it evolves.

After a while you just get used to it and realise that when you're playing in sandbox mode you might as well make up your own objectives even if you know they're 'objectively' useless. It's generally more agreeable to make up games to play than not to do so.

>>11767925
To truly believe in something is to make it real for yourself

>>11768028
But when you say you experience emptiness, you don't actually "discover" anything. You just feel empty

>>11765864
how do i get a job like that

>>11768035
i dont know why you refuse to understand, feeling empty is a consequence of having convinced yourself the world is empty

>>11768045
I apologise for not understanding. What do you mean when you say the world is empty? I provided three interpretations in an earlier post, maybe choose the one you align with the most?:
If you're having trouble finding happiness, then some ethical philosophers might give you some respite.
If you're looking for inherent """purpose""", then sad to say that there really isn't much support for any form of real, ontological purpose out there (why would there be?).
If it's the "reason" things exist, then Heidegger might say that you need to look into capital-B Being for an answer (hint: it's time! (or more specifically, Dasein's temporality)).

>>11768052
i was just trying to explain that if you truly believe something, then that something is real. Be it emptiness, god, transcendence, time, distance, goodness. Im not a void watcher anymore thankfully

>>11768067
okay, but still, I'm interested at what you mean by believing the world to be "empty". Surely not in a physical sense? In an ontological sense maybe? Are you conflating "emptiness" with "purposelessness"?

>>11767260
Its a need to justify suffering.

>>11765211
I never understood nihilism, and I think it is because I reacted very differently to nihilistic realizations than some people do.

Upon my epiphany that all things are ultimately meaningless I realized that meaning itself is dependent upon the individual. IE That as a sentient creature capable of complex thought, we as humans, can create our own meaning. Giving into meaninglessness is meaningless, and so, why not find something to live for? The idea of indulging in hedonistic behaviour as nihilists oft do is meaningless in of itself. And I think that the reason I have come to this conclusion, and thus havnt become a brainlet hedonist, is because the idea of subjecting myself to no greater than a quasi animal partaking in whatever can satisfy my immediate drives is disgusting to me. I derive greater satisfaction from physical exercise, from raising a family, from reading and pursuing more difficult interests. Yet, as these things bring me satisfaction, maybe I am still a hedonist, but in a different manner. I guess, in summary, nihilism and how you react to it is dependent upon your perspective of what reality is and what reality isnt. Idk I'm just another NPC pseud.

>>11768204
realizing you should create your own meaning and truly believing it are two different things

>>11768215
>>11766785
>>11767178
>>11768204

I wanna prod at this whole "create your own meaning" thing that gets hurled around whenever someone steps out of the pessimist closet. The affective and intellectual condition that is often accused of "nihilism", I think, has a grounding in an ungrounding of already-made institutional meanings (Nation, Family, Love, Revolution, whatever you will) which greet us the moment we realize we are in being. Once these meanings which are supposed to impart some sort of meaning by sublimation into a transcendent category have been dissolved for a person, why go back? Why continue to create meaning, or even create for that matter? Do you really believe that someone in the act of creating meaning can maintain an ironic distance from meaning? Do you really think that you can freely do or make whatever you want? Do you think than the pessimist, nihilist, or whatever slur you wish to use, won't recognize the artifice of their designer meaning? Who are you trying to fool with meaning, yourself or others? I say that to be provocative, but not necessarily hostile.

>>11768349
your words are so big

you could have just said: the nihilist (existentialist) won't believe in the meaning they make for themselves, because they know its fake. No need for all that writing.

Plus, you use all those Heideggerian words like "grounding" and "being", but there's no real point. Do you have to say "in being" when you can just say "born"? Such inefficient and unclear writing.

>>11768349
>>11768386
>the nihilist (existentialist) won't believe in the meaning they make for themselves, because they know its fake

exactly, thats why its not such an obvious thing as saying "create your own meaning", first you must find your real and true "essence" and derive from it true meaning. You need to truly believe in that made up meaning, it needs to come from beyond the concept making machine you have already found to lying that you call the self, or the ego, you need to transcend

>>11768386
I'm not a great writer and precision is a struggle. And I'm trying to figure out if I actually understand what I my question through writing, which is why it's so redundant. My thoughts are very inefficient and unclear, it shows in the writing.

>>11768349
im an adept at fooling myself.

>>11765211
Nihilism is a phase but that doesn't mean that it will go away on it's own.

>>11765211

Having gone through a nihilist phase recently I found that these sorts of discussions made it even worse. I was forced to realize that even if my suffering I fell short, that finer men had suffered more and articulated it better. I had wanted to escape creatively. I wanted it be mine. I wanted something genuine and full of life to spring up from me, like water from a stone.

It was overwhelmingly painful, but in the was it anything more than “baby's first existential crisis”?

Spinning thoughts lead nowhere. Every idea can be deconstructed. Another thought always rises. Nothing holds strong but being itself, and even that is a cliche.

I give up.

>>11768500
>I give up.

is disassociation a form of nihilism?

>>11768512
If you stare at the void long enough, the void grows inside of you

>>11765211
Yes, nihilism is a phase, my friend.

>>11765257
Nietzsche was too optimist enough to see clearly, my friend.

>>11765278
> To sob at the lack of meaning means that you still hold meaning as meaningful
Nihilist say that meaning is pure potentiality and can never be actualized in this life. They an hero not because they are clueless in regards to meaning but because they are sure they have discovered its impossibility.

>>11765313
> I assure you your nihilism will pass very quickly
Such feelings are too massive and possess too much inertia to change quickly. A true nihilist will not ever again find anything meaningful (more on this in a moment.) A half-nihilist, one who is more likely depressed and suffers from weak physiology, it it true may find something once again. But this is the uninteresting case

>>11765333
JBP says nothing profound. He parrots what his youthful audience knows in the heart but is too weak to act on.

>>11765375
Is there any meaning in my life that won't be destroyed by my death? I say nay.

>>11765827
This is incomprehensible. "Let a square be a circle." I don't think you understand the severity of absurdism.

>>11766170
There is one path out of nihilism (I will speak of that in a moment)

>>11766173
But this means you were only half-nihilist, in half-despair. You always had the potential to affirm existence.

>>11766482
To a person in despair, the only pleasures available are those of the body, and those are not only short lived but also bring with them after-pain.


Nihilism leads to Skepticism. Over time, the body will grow suspicious and grow nihilist again. But the cycle repeats. Once you've questioned your nihilism, you are led back to the mantle of skeptic. This cycle will repeat ad infinitum. Of course, you can always hop off the train.

>this whole thread

>>11765211
the only life I can think of where one is a happy nihilist is where they toss aside the objective meaningless of life and find a subjective one that fulfils them. this is certainly possible and it's not hard to believe people have some this. Camus comes to mind, but that doesn't necessarily imply hedonism.

>>11767507
spoken like a true NPC!