/lit/ - Literature

>>11903518
The Bible

Just pray the Rosary every day.

>>11903523
Unironically this. Reading or saying anything so much it completely loses all meaning is the best way to heal emotional and philosophical ailments.

>>11903518
Go to church. If you already attend a church and speaking to your pastor doesn’t help, find a new church.

>>11903523
Just prayer honestly, you don't need a fancy prayer.

>>11903518
Introduction to Objectivist Epistemology.
Will cure that problem you're having with faith right quick.

>>11903567
I've read it, but I don't see how it helps.

>>11903518
Realize if there is no God, the belief system still helps you lead a constructive life and religion itself is useful for overcoming our animal instincts. I don't believe in God but I read theological works for inspiration, to try to get my life on the right track.
No matter what, it's a win win scenario for you even if you reject the metaphysics at times. If I could brainwash myself into being religious, I would.

>>11903562
Yeah, but the Rosary was literally given to us by the Mother of God. It's a special prayer. I can personally attest to its power.

Watch this every single morning.

https://youtube.com/watch?v=kxaNpgCAGhc

>>11903857
She was blessed but she wasn't divine, the Lord's Prayer is the only prayer that is more significant than the rest.

>>11903867
She has a unique role to play in our salvation. She is the Theotokos, the Queen of Heaven, and she has appeared to men repeatedly over the centuries on behalf of her Son, the Lord.

>>11903876
Don't know where you got that from, but it isn't the Bible

God exists.

And He isn't interested in us until we become interested in Him, in Him exclusively.
Do you understand what I am saying?
Ex-clu-sive-ly!
Twenty-four hours a day. Your hearts and minds filled only with God.
There's no room for anything else.
No room for free will, no room for liberty, no room for emancipation.
"Free yourself from God", I've heard people say.

"Liberate yourself from God."

But the pain of liberation is unbearable, sharp enough to kill.

Without God... you are as good as dead.
Dead, abandoned strays wandering the streets.

>>11903876
Also, I'm pretty sure that's the role of Angels.
>>11903857
>Attest to its power
Prosperity gospel pls go

>>11903876
I'm not denying the position the Catholic Church has put her in, I'm denying divinity of her and her word.
Her role is unique, but it was a role she took humbly, and you should respect it as a humble position.

>>11903865
kino

>>11903567

>>11903882
God predestined us before the beginning of time
Good works are an outward product of inner sanctification

>>11903901
Amen

>>11903518
No books, You must embrace reality.

>>11903521
This is really the only answer.
Maybe listen to some sermons online as well.

Anyone else like to imagine becoming a priest or any other vocation within the Church?
So much in life, you need to do something or know someone to get anywhere. You could be the most intelligent person in the world and if you aren't qualified, HR won't care. Education is much the same way. Qualified applicants often have the doors closed on them because they lack clinic hours or volunteer experience. Or perhaps they are unable to secure federal loans. Potential is something that exists anymore in the real world.

The path of the priesthood is unique. You don't need to prove anything. You show an interest in it, the church will see you through even if you're poor. Even if you have accomplished nothing. Even people who have failed at other endeavours in life. Even a NEET who otherwise is looked down at and disdained for being a bum, a drain, is seen as someone with potential.

>>11903886
>"Prosperity gospel"
>the powerful intervention of Holy Mother Mary throughout the centuries

Protestants, I swear.

>>11903948
>Potential is *NOT* something that exists anymore in the real world.

>>11903901
>>11903901
t. Calvinists

>>11903948
Im aiming for something in this line, But I am trying to build from bedrock up. (If ya know what I mean)

I suggest listening to this station.
It's very comfy.

https://www.waob.org

>>11903956
>God will reward you if you just pray with the right necklace!
retard

>>11904035
That's not his point.

>>11904045
Then elaborate

>>11904050
First, I'm Presbyterian.
But, no Catholics believe we are 'rewarded' for praying a specific prayer. They have the view that Mary as the mediator between our prayers and Jesus Christ the high priest. The prayer is theologically formulated, and venerates Tradition and Jesus's promise.
It's a prayer that takes much into consideration.

My point of view the entirety of it is not needed, and the Lords Prayer is what we should focus our faith on, but I agree it does help one focus during prayer.

Searching For and Maintaining Peace: A Small Treatise on Peace of Heart by Fr Jacques Phillips

Simple little book that has helped me greatly

>>11904073
The Catholic system of prayer is meditation at its core. People cannot relate to an abstraction as easily as say the blessed mother or a saint. It's infinitely more complex and useful than a simple prayer.

>>11904082
The Lords Prayer is not Simple. It is divine.

I know how Prayer works.

>People cannot relate to an abstraction as easily as say the blessed mother or a saint.
This is not important in the Truth. The Faith to Christ is the only thing that matters during prayer.
It's simply delusion to think we need to add to a prayer thar Christ himself gave us, In fact Id say it actually takes away from the interpersonal relationship with our Lord's Word.

>>11904082
>>11904098

To add, it's simply training wheels for holding Faithful prayer.

>>11904098
Then why does God work so often through intermediaries?

Think of all the miracles, all the signs and wonders, accomplished through the saints and through the angels and through Mary. Sure, you can be an ultra-Protestant and call them the work of the Devil, but why would you?

Rather, I think you should look at them as proof that God likes to work through human intermediaries. And you can even see this going back to the beginning. Did God go himself, in all his grandeur, to Egypt to free His people? No, he sent Moses. Did God go, in all His anger, to Israel to announce his disapproval of their behavior? No, he sent Elijah, Elisha, and all the other Prophets. God likes to work through humans. We can ponder why He does this. We can wonder why. But we must observe that it's consistent behavior on His part. It's the thing that ties the Church to old Israel.

>>11904121
>Sure, you can be an ultra-Protestant and call them the work of the Devil, but why would you?
What? Are you taking this argument serious and in Good Faith? For shame on you.

I see them as devoutful people worshiping the Lord through Faith. Do you think all these Saints needed this prayer? That would be mad to assume.

I am not saying Mary doesn't intercede in his behalf, but that is Church Dogma, and as Dogma it stays.

You're comparing intermediaries of the prophets and the Lord, to church dogmatic reliance.

>>11904081
Thanks

>>11903518
Alternatively: grow up? So ridiculous to witness the hard-on this board has for religion. Stop admiring emblems and figurines and shit and be an adult and face the void that is meaning in the world; make yourself into something.

>>11904174
cringe

>>11904174
t. meme tier understanding of religion. Even if false, it's still a useful tool for individuals.

>>11904180
t. reddit
>>11904189
lol as if religion is the only pathway man has found to creating meaning in this world.

>>11904216
>lol as if religion is the only pathway man has found to creating meaning in this world.
Nietzsche and his life work is ironically the anti-thesis to your presumption

>>11904248
ok?

>>11903948
>You don't need to prove anything.
You need to prove quite a bit, actually. For my diocese at least they look at your grades, overall stability (have you stayed in the same job for several years), and most importantly your moral character. You go through a series of interviews (seven in Tulsa) and a rigorous psychological exam, and that is just to get accepted to seminary.

>>11904255
It proves man's only pathway to finding meaning is through religion. Which is ironic being that Nietzsche tried proving it wrong but couldn't. He even inadvertently proved it correct. His denial of religion would only enlarge the tumor of turmoil that laid in his soul. As he turned further and further away from the importance of God his life became more and more woeful.

>>11904270
That's to establish intelligence, work ethic and good character, things that are absolutely essential if one is to be a priest. Let me be clear, I'm not saying there aren't requirements to embark on priesthood, but the perceived value of a person is there and there is a desire for the Church to see them through till completion, subsidizing them and guiding them along the way if need be.
Companies and Schools could not care less about either of these things. Grades are just means to an end and alone aren't even sufficient. There are considerable barriers to entry at every step.

The discernment/seminary/priesthood process is to me like a hospital seeing someone with potential expressing interest in becoming a physician, agreeing they'd make a good doctor, seeing them through college and then onto medical school.

Or reversely, if Churches behaved as Schools/Companies did, they would have zero interest in a man if he didn't meet a very specific criteria, setting in stone, say needing a Philosophy Degree, x amount of volunteer hours, then, even if they qualify for all of it, make them come up with the cash for seminary and should if there are any financial difficulties along the way it's sayonara.

>>11903518
I just had one. Read Fowler's Stages of Faith. That's the most solid book I can recommend.

>>11904354
I see, we're on the same page then. God bless you, I hope it works out!

>>11904280
elaborate

>>11903518
>having faith
lmao what?

stop being a cuck faggot

>>11904558
>God bless you, I hope it works out!
Thank you but I am not, and have no serious intention of, going down this path. I just have an extreme fondness of it, something I like to contemplate. It's of some consolation whenever I look back and feel bitterness about struggles in my own life or friends or even reading someone's frustration here.

>>11904270
Are you a priest?

>>11904903
Not right now, but Lord willing in a few years.

>>11904174
Cringe

>>11904174
>>11904577
Samefag

>>11903986
/lit/ is a calvinist board

>>11903557
>and speaking to your pastor doesn’t help, find a new church.
What if I'm married to a woman whose entire family is part of said church and they believe we won't be together in heaven unless I go to the same one

>>11904073
if God is all knowing, benevolent, and omnipotent, why does he need intermediaries to convince him on our behalf?

>>11903518
>crisis of faith
well boo hoo hoo
there is no god, just grow up and fucking deal with it

>>11904270
>have you stayed in the same job for several years
If a church finds this important then I know it's going to be complete garbage. The fallen things of this world are to be striven against, not held up as a standard. Tell me again how Jesus stayed in one place, assisting those in high places by working a meaningless 9-5 office job for 60 years.

>>11905483
Then that church is teaching some pretty incorrect concepts and your family has unfortunately had the wool pulled over their eyes.
“Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.”
Not by a specific denomination, not by rituals and ceremonies, but by faith in and acceptance of Jesus Christ.

>>11905501
Did Jesus leave the fishermen to remain as they were, in service to Mammon? No, he said follow me and I will make you fishers of men.

Job "stability" is the epitome of NPC mindset. One who is perfectly comfortable to rest in the sickness of this perverted world.

>>11905516
Mormons don't deny that, they believe Christians go to heaven but they see temple "worthiness" as an additional responsibility and blessing. One of those benefits is being together with your family after life. As you can imagine, that creates a lot of pressure on the rest of the family to convert.

>>11905439
keep your fucking hands off those choirboys

>>11905493
Why reply multiple times?

>>11905548
what?

this board is infested with religious scum to the core
Fucking disgusting

>>11905493
>>11905584
>>11905573
Obvious samefag

Faith is so dumb.
As a kid I always wondered how people could believe that, out of the thousands/millions of gods invented by humanity, the one they happen to be raised to worship is real and all the other ones are false.

>>11905541
Yeah but the LDS also had that whole racism thing going for them until the late 70s, so I’d kind of call that a red flag in the legitimacy of most of their theological claims.
If the church isn’t focused on Jesus as the one and only way to salvation, the church has its focus in the wrong places.

>>11905601
of course these two were me, sherlock
>>11905493
>>11905573
religious people are so fucking stupid
fuck off to /his/ like you were supposed to

>>11905630
>the LDS business might not have the right values in my mind
HMMMMM YOU DON'T SAY

>>11905630
>Keeping races separate and distinct, the way He made us
>bad
If anything, abandoning their position on race is a red flag.

>>11905671
“There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.”

>>11905632
If you're gonna call other people stupid, you should learn proper punctuation.

>>11905615
I agree, if people disagree on something that means there's no correct answer.

>>11905678
>there is neither male nor female
If we are to take this verse literally, it opens the door for so much degeneracy I don't even see the point in Christianity at that point. What is left except self cuckery?

I don't believe that the Father is fine with us defiling his creation. Otherwise why have the laws which very clearly argue against that?

>>11905678
Doesn't this mean they are of equal importance, not that they are the same or should be mixed?

>>11905483
Sorry to hear that, the LDS church is an invidious cult. I know it's reddit, but the people over at /r/exmormon are usually very supportive of questioning Mormons in difficult positions.

Lmao slave of the demiurge.

>>11903518
>tfw I'm having a crisis of faith in my atheism

>>11905748
>christ fags are literal redditors
Can't get more autistic.

>>11905754
I actually went from atheism to agnosticism to Christianity.

>>11905764
The virgin rail.

>>11905766
Being a skeptic is questioning your belief, not just being edgy.

>>11905764
I went from atheism to agnosticism, but Christianity still seems like a load of bull to me.

>>11905784
Honestly, I'm agnostic for rational reasons, I'm only Christian because of the church community. Also it's better to worship a benevolent god then others.

>>11905615
because it's honestly hard to argue against the divinity of Jesus. He was one of the few divine figures we know existed for sure and there is strong evidence for his resurrection having taken place. Individuals like Mohammed for example often fall prey to human follies (not to mention his war making) which seriously put to question their "divinity". Jesus on the other hand was quite literally perfect, as only the son of God could be. I don't see anything necessarily wrong with worshiping the god you were raised to, but in reality the abrahamic religions are the only serious religions today anyway.

Besides, wherever there is an altar, civilization can be found.

>>11905838
>jesus existed
Proof you haven't read about the history of history.

>>11905803
>Christian god
>Benevolent

Doesn't that dude run the universe's only eternal torture dungeon?

>>11905838
>it's honestly hard to argue against the divinity of Jesus. He was one of the few divine figures we know existed

I can't imagine being this credulous about the veracity of events recorded only by word of mouth for centuries by superstitious cave people.

>>11905866
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historicity_of_Jesus
Cmon bruh

>>11905868
Hell is a misconception, Annihilationism is closer to what the bible actually says.

>Hell is a misconception
Luke 16 strongly suggests otherwise.

>>11905913
see Isaiah 66:24; cf. 2 Kings 22:17; Isaiah 17:2–7; 51:8; Jeremiah 4:4; 7:20; 21:12; Ezekiel 20:47–48

Also the New Testament teaches that the wicked will justly suffer for their sins, but the end result will be their destruction (cf. Luke 16:19–31; Romans 2:8; 2 Thessalonians 1:6)

>>11905897
>wikipedia

>>11905926
I know I'm being baited, but can you show any source besides "rationalatheistgamer" on youtube?

>>11905684
heaven forbid i should sully the grammatical perfection of /lit/ with a missing full stop
the standards i apply to shitposting are different from my professional work
also your use of "gonna" casts doubts on your grammar nazi credentials

>>11905938
>gonna
Is not improper grammar, are you retarded?

Also a run-on sentence, for shame.

>>11905897

>All extant sources that mention Jesus were written after his death. The Christian Testament represents sources that have become canonical for Christianity, and there are many apocryphal texts that are examples of the wide variety of writings in the first centuries AD that are related to Jesus.[26] Many scholars have questioned the authenticity and reliability of these sources, and few events mentioned in the gospels are universally accepted.[15]:181

>The historical reliability of the gospels refers to the reliability and historic character of the four New Testament gospels as historical documents. Little in the four canonical gospels is considered to be historically reliable.[49][50][51][52][53]

>Most scholars of antiquity agree that Jesus existed,[54][55][56][57] but scholars differ on the historicity of specific episodes described in the biblical accounts of Jesus.[15]:181 The only two events subject to "almost universal assent" are that Jesus was baptized by John the Baptist and that, between one and three years later, he was crucified by the order of the Roman Prefect Pontius Pilate.[13][58][59]

>Scholars attribute varying levels of certainty to other episodes. Some assume that there are eight elements about Jesus and his followers that can be viewed as historical facts, namely:[13][84]

>Jesus was a Galilean Jew.
>His activities were confined to Galilee and Judea.
>He was baptized by John the Baptist.
>He called disciples.
>He had a controversy at the Temple.
>Jesus was crucified by the Romans near Jerusalem.[13][84]
>After his death his disciples continued.
>Some of his disciples were persecuted.[13][84]

>Scholarly agreement on this extended list is not universal.[13][84][85]


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historicity_of_Jesus

Given this, why do people believe in divinity with relation to the Jesus myth? Jesus seems no more divine, at least from can be positively discerned from the historical record, than any other teacher.

Can the divine nature of a figure from thousands of years ago possibly be proved, or is that asking too much?

If we have no frame of reference for divinity other than truly ancient stories, is it enough to go on to justify devoting one's life, thoughts, time, weekends, whatever it is that worship entrails to the believer?

>>11905959
>Virtually all New Testament scholars and Near East historians, applying the standard criteria of historical investigation, find that the historicity of Jesus is effectively certain[3][4][5][6][nb 1][nb 2][nb 3][nb 4][nb 5] although they differ about the beliefs and teachings of Jesus as well as the accuracy of the details of his life that have been described in the gospels.[nb 6][13][nb 7][15]:168–173 While scholars have criticized Jesus scholarship for religious bias and lack of methodological soundness,[nb 8] with very few exceptions such critics generally do support the historicity of Jesus and reject the Christ myth theory that Jesus never existed.[17][nb 9][19][20][21]

Don't move the goalposts, you made the claim that Jesus didn't exist.


Also
>The historical reliability of the Gospels refers to the reliability and historic character of the four New Testament gospels as historical documents. Some believe that all four canonical gospels meet the five criteria for historical reliability; and others say that little in the gospels is considered to be historically reliable.[1][2][3][4][5][6] Almost all scholars of antiquity agree that Jesus existed,[7][8][9][10] but scholars differ on the historicity of specific episodes described in the Biblical accounts of Jesus,[11] and the only two events subject to "almost universal assent" are that Jesus was baptized by John the Baptist and was crucified by the order of the Roman Prefect Pontius Pilate.[12][13][14] Elements whose historical authenticity is disputed include the two accounts of the Nativity of Jesus, the miraculous events including the resurrection, and certain details about the crucifixion.[15][16][17][18][19][20]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_reliability_of_the_Gospels

There is debate on whether or not it's true, not consensus.

>>11903518
The Genius of Christianity by Chateaubriand

>>11905543
Will do

>>11905684
>he didn't type a period at the end of a sentence
*gasp*

>>11905920
>Isaiah 66:24 - ...for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched
suggests eternal punishment.
>2 Kings 22:17 - ...my anger will burn against this place and will not be quenched.
also suggests eternal punishment.
>Isaiah 17:2–7
people God doesn't like will die - nothing about the hereafter unless you're trying too hard.
>Isaiah 51:8
now THIS one, I could give you... unless it's just talking about an actual grave, which is commonly used as a thing that "the sinful" go to. Or the effects of sin. Or other stuff.
>Jeremiah 4:4 and 7:20, Ezekiel 20:47–48
more burning, still no quenching. Again, no suggestion that they would "burn up" so much as "burn forever."

New testament likes the Greek word Apollumi. This word does not mean "annihilation."
>http://thirdmill.org/answers/answer.asp/file/46713

>>11905985
Capitalization is taught in elementary school.

>>11905971
I didn't claim that Jesus didn't exist, that was some other guy.

>>11905987
All those speak to the finality of judgment not its duration.

>Matthew 10:28 where Christ speaks of the wicked being destroyed "both body and soul" in fiery hell, John 11:11 "our friend Lazarus has fallen asleep", and 1 Thessalonians 4:15 "we shall not precede those who have fallen asleep".

>>11905717
>there is neither
>for all is one
>uuh doesnt it meen dey r different??

>>11905991
Gotcha, I personally don't believe that Jesus was divine.

>>11905999
That's totally fair. It always seemed odd to me that people get hung up on the necessity of the divinity thing and its esoteric internal nature and all the complications and schisms that come with that. It's like, humans can be great teachers and thinkers, they can be people we want to model our life and behavior after - they don't need to be supernatural.

Lose it, then gain it back years later.

>>11906010
Sure, but you can have your own personal understanding of god while still seeing the value of the church.

>>11906014
For sure, I definitely get the community aspect of organized religion. I still generally think that people can get that sense of community from other venues without the supernatural stuff attached, but I don't begrudge people for wanting to believe whatever spiritual thing it is they believe together. I should think that this would be a rather nice sensation.

What irks me a bit about spirituality in generally stems more from things like what>>11905838 was saying, stating that divinity obviously exists and that we definitely know that supernatural event x, y, and z happened thousands of years ago.

The lack of credulity is something I find troubling in people who express such beliefs. Wanting to live like Jesus is admirable, do so if it makes you feel good, but believing that what can only really be described as myths from our ancient past are literally true and accurate accounts of events is somewhat troubling. What else is this person willing to believe after giving up this much to faith?

>>11906115
Totally disregard for god doesn't seem totally rational for me either. But I get your point.

>>11905803
>I'm only Christian because of the church community
So do you actually believe it? I wouldn't be comfortable being part of a religion I don't think is true.

>>11906165
I believe in god, but I'm pretty sure it's not that benevolent.

>>11906175
Can you explain a bit about what god is to you? I rarely get to have these kinds of discussions with people anymore and I'm quite curious.

Imagine, building a wooden box for yourself that is too small for you to comfortably sit in. Then start thinking there is something wrong with you for not fitting in the box that you made too small for yourself.
Thats what christians do.

>>11906244
I think god is a tester, I don't think worship actually matters. I think he needs people for something ( sorta like an AI drone). I don't think god cares about our well being, or even that good people pass the test. However, id rather be a good person then worship and evil god.

The crisis of faith is the first gleam of sanity. The next should be crisis of faith in science and truth. Go ahead bravely and separate knowledge and values. Don't bewail with solipsism but turn the flaw of being against the world itself full of retards with the power of trolling.

>>11906498
If God created us, why would He need us for anything?

>>11906494
Just because perfection is unattainable for us doesn't mean we shouldn't aim for it.

>>11906509
Your definition of perfection...

>>11906503
Why do humans make machines?

>>11905484
Im not sure Im not catholic, I view Christ as the direct respondent.

>>11905803
You are not Christian. Sheep in wolves clothing.

>>11906525
You mean wolf in sheeps.

>>11906535
:^) sorry I am actually dyslexic

>>11906498
That's an interesting perspective. Not one I usually hear from religiously minded people, but it is a flavor of a concept I've heard of before.

Have you ever read anything about the theory of the simulated universe(s)?

Essentially this theory will say that, if we take the current state of our technology, we can feasibly imagine an upscaled version (i.e. through quantum computing, planet-sized computers, etc) that can replicate the experiential nature of a universe to the smallest detail - possibly many, many of these universes in parallel. The belief or theory states that if this level of technology is indeed physically possible that it is quite likely that we ourselves live in such a universe - because there could feasibly be an almost unlimited amount of them generated.

In this theory, god would essentially be the computer scientists who built, study, maintain, research, etc. this experiment, which kind of fits you viewpoint. Something to look into if you're curious I guess.

>>11906115
>What else is this person willing to believe after giving up this much to faith?
What exactly am I giving up to "faith"? One must rely on faith for the question of God, be it theist or atheist. We know for sure Jesus existed; one can rationally understand this. There is even a certain level of rationality for the resurrection; the rest I suppose must be left up to faith.

Regardless, you're assuming rationality is possible for understanding God, which it is not. If you place reason above all else than you can only remain an agnostic at heart. Read Kierkegaard if you have trouble understanding this.

>>11903882
Easy on the euphoria, bugs.

>>11906115
>but believing that what can only really be described as myths from our ancient past
>2000 years ago
>myths
You do know writing and history had already existed for quite a long time at this point? We're not talking about 10,000 BC here retard. There is little reason to not believe in the writers of the time.

>>11906570
>Regardless, you're assuming rationality is possible for understanding God, which it is not. If you place reason above all else than you can only remain an agnostic at heart.

I'd say that's fair. My issue is more with people who believe that their beliefs in their gods springs from reason or evidence.

>>11906590
>There is little reason to not believe in the writers of the time.

Other than the fact that they were writing about folktales that had been handed down in oral tradition pertaining to mystical events in a pre-scientific era?

Other people in the thread brought it up first, but give-

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historicity_of_Jesus

a perusal.

Believing that-

>Jesus was a Galilean Jew.
>His activities were confined to Galilee and Judea.
>He was baptized by John the Baptist.
>He called disciples.
>He had a controversy at the Temple.
>Jesus was crucified by the Romans near Jerusalem.[13][84]
>After his death his disciples continued.
>Some of his disciples were persecuted.[13][84]

happened is much different than believing that Jesus fed 4000 people with seven loaves of bread, or with two fish, or whatever the myth was.

Pic related - not even 4000 people.

>>11906513
Why didn't they fly the eagles to Mordor?

>>11906635
>what are miracles
>what is the power of God

>>11906680
Because then they would’ve got bodied by a Nazgûl riding a fell beast

>>11906705
fake news, i.e. fiction.

>>11906705
>>11906705
>what are miracles
Events that defy the laws of physics and therefore require evidence that outweighs those laws for me to believe they occurred (stories from a book with no definitive authorship written well over a thousand years ago but dozens to hundreds of years after the events they profess to describe do not meet this standard, sorry)
>what is the power of God
See above

>>11905838
Besides what others have already said, how do you consider Jesus as he is described in the texts to be "perfect" or "divine" when he:
(a) succumbed to the very human emotion (and sin) of wrathfulness in his encounter with the moneylenders;
(b) doubted the plan of God while praying in the Garden of Gethsemane on the eve of his crucifixion;
(c) accused God of having forsaken him while on the cross?

>>11905439
I have faith you'll get there.
God willing, you'll become the Pope one day.

>>11906777
Wrath doesn't mean never be angry ever.

>>11906563
I think it's more that God needs some sort of army, I.E powerful but not omnipotent. Thus, if you pass the test you fight, if you don't you go to nothing. I'm not really sure you want to pass.

>>11906525
>Sheep in wolves clothing.

>>11904082
"They fashioned Christ into a judge and thus devised a tyrant for anguished consciences, so that all comfort and confidence was transferred from Christ to Mary."

>>11905501
>>11905531
These posts hit hard.

>>11903523
This.

+ some Aquinas (Compendium especially) or the catechism if you doubt, and/or the life of a saint or a life of Our Lord Jesus Christ.

>>11907308
get the fuck out of here, heretic.

>>11907461
Be a better person.

>>11905501
I appreciate the sentiment, but there is a solid reason they look for that: chances are you will be assigned to one parish for a decent amount of time. The Church wants to make sure you are able a long-term commitment to your flock, rather than getting restless once the novelty wears off.

>>11903518
How has no one said The God Delusion yet?

>>11907677
Personal opinion - God Is Not Great was a better book.

I'm also surprised nobody mentioned either yet.

>>11907308
This is correct
If you're praying to anyone outside of the Trinity, you've gone way wrong.

>>11907721
>>11907677
I've read both, I just don't find them convincing.

>>11904174
oof

>>11905803
Stay out if the church then, cancer

>>11907799
God welcomes all his children :)

>>11907801
The reprobate are hardly His children

>>11907806
wrong

>>11907785
What do you find convincing?

>>11907808
Universalist detected

>>11907809
An apathetic god

>>11907811
Universalists are gay

>>11907821
Are there particular reasons that led you to find the idea of an apathetic god more convincing than merely an apathetic universe devoid of a god?

Are those two things even really different in a meaningful way?

>>11907854
Apathetic in the sense that he doesn't care if we suffer, I think if god exists he needs life for something. Maybe an experiment, war, or something more horrid.

As for the possibility of god, I was convinced by various cosmological arguments (not the shitty kalam one).

>>11907864
believing in some apathetic god who doesnt care about or interact with the world is even more retarded than believing in the "benevolent but works-in-mysterious.ways" sky dad.

>>11907633
>not wanting to work an office job for 60 years makes you a bad person

>>11907864
>god exists and it's a he
Observe, the retard in it's natural habitat.

>>11907892
Did you not read the rest of my comment you retard?
>>11907914
It's a colloquialism stupid.

>>11907914
>Observe, the retard in it's natural habitat.
Observe, the retard in it is natural habitat.

200 IQ people here folks.

>>11907914
>it's natural habitat.

>>11907864
Would you be willing to describe some of those cosmological arguments, or possibly remember where or maybe who they came from?

It's fine if you don't want to - shit like that can be hard to remember if it was something you read years and years ago - but I am curious if you happen to remember some of it and are willing to share. Most of the cosmological arguments I remember dealt mostly with causality - first causes and so on. I'm assuming there's more.

>>11908010
Go over the arguments from contingency, and realize that most people argue that the universe can be a non contingent being. I don't have time to go through it fully, so check it out here.

https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/cosmological-argument/

Keep in mind, this argument just goes over a necessary first cause, there are others that connect this thing to god.

>>11903518
The Lord doesn't exist, and if He did, the entire thing wouldn't break down with a little tought.

>>11908022
Sorry, I meant to say that the universe being non contingent doesn't affect the argument.

I had an orgo test today, so I'm out of it.

>>11905501
Nice post man.

>>11904280
Oh no, it's another retard who says his mental illness was related to his philosophy ...
everyone hide

>>11903880

>>11908054
Nice maymay, but like I said, none of that stuff is in the Bible or originated from anyone who was involved in its writing.

>>11907907
yes

>>11908022
I do find the arguments for the universe-starter interesting, but I think there's argument for a distinction here between what we tend to call god or gods and what may be any sort of non-material energy, for lack of a better word.

If we agree that the universe has some definite start point (holding off on the idea that it could be eternal in some way) and that the event or force that kicks it off or calls it into being is something from, essentially, outside the universe, non-materialistic in the way that we understand it, we don't really have a certain reference to this thing having intentional states (ideas, intelligence, etc).. Indeed it could be, again for lack of a better phrasing, a sort of energy wave, or cloud of potentiality, non-euclidean proto-celestial chaos force, or however we might want to call a thing that has the potential to kickstart universes via some process.

I suppose this may fit your conceptualization of an apathetic god, but I feel like both of those words (apathetic, god) applied to what we may be discussing are too weighed down by traditional meaning to be accurately applied. Apathy somewhat implies the ability to care but the lack of reason or desire to actually do so. God is a term that has a lot of cultural weight to it. A non-material outsider function may not have any more ability to care or think about anything than the concept of gravity has the potential to think or care about anything. It may simply be that which it is.

What the cosmological arguments I've seen effectively stop at the point of attempting to establish a definitive start (or what we can best understand as a start - if we believe there are outside-of-universe forces that create universes at all that becomes a whole other can of contingency worms), this being what they call god (I understand that this is the essential function of the argument, they are not a holistic philosophy in themselves and they don't try to be, but bear with me a moment) - but I don't necessarily see any reason to apply that label (god) to a universe-creating phenomena from outside of our universe.

Essentially, even if we were to agree with these arguments point-by-point, we'd be left with the same cosmos and relation to the things inside of it and outside of it as any atheist. At that point I would ask again - Are those two things even really different in a meaningful way?

-I hope your exam went well.

>>11908158
https://dhspriory.org/thomas/Compendium.htm#4
https://dhspriory.org/thomas/summa/

The summa Theologica is how you get from the first cause to god.

I have a calculus exam on Thursday, so I can't go into as much as I want, but check it out friend.


>Are those two things even really different in a meaningful way?

If the thing controls your eternal soul it does make a difference.

>>11907648
>>11908041

>>11903876
complete paganism
I hope you change your ways, heathen.

>>11903518
praying for you anon

>>11908482
Thanks friend

>>11908081
>Sola Scriptura
Here come the shit eaters

>>11905868
>god runs hell

>>11908563
>implying Luther or any other early reformists are glorified

>>11908581
>Implying they weren't simply degenerates who collaborated with equally degenerate Kings to loot Church property and institute their own shitty theology as the state theology
You missed the point of the meme, which makes sense. There's a higher gradient of critical thinking required to be a Catholic.

>>11904174
cringe and bluepilled

>>11908576
don't say that the devil does, please anon

>>11903518
God isn't real

>>11908643
prove it

>>11908643
go away demon

>>11908600
Are you stupid?

>>11908678
no u

I have no idea what a crisis of faith is. I can only assume you never had any good reasons to believe things to begin with so you should probably start at a ground level. Ed Feser, Five Proofs for the Existence of God the check out Trent Horn's Why We're Catholic.

>>11908665
God is a concept created by man and doesn't exist outside our minds according to the scientific method, the most valid and reliable method to know reality until the present day.

>>11909166
I don't think you understand the scientific method very well if you think it can prove that God doesn't exist

>>11909202
Because "God" means whatever you want it to mean, right?

>>11909217
He's right anon

>>11909217
When people say god they're usually referring to the creator of the universe. By default anything that creates the universe would outside of it and the scientific method can only investigate things inside the universe.

>>11908678
Typical Protestant

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nAShctnfQ4I&index=49&list=PLdZBnz2ghHo5i7gXITRn9of3HW0N4clY_

Join an orthodox church, catholicism and protestantism just can't compare, it has rebirthed my excitement for christianity.

>>11909531
>highest rate of abortion among Christians
>highest rate of divorce among Christians

Get the fuck out of here with this garbage.

>>11909531
Catholic > Orthodox >>>>>>>>>>>> absolute heretics (JW, protestants, Mormons).

>>11909542
Enjoy your circus rock show you call church ;)

>>11909545
this guy gets it

>>11905913
>Luke 16 suggests otherwise

You mean the book that was written 50 years ex post facto by somebody who LITERALLY NEVER MET JESUS let alone probably never even met anyone who met jesus and was just copying Marks gospel?

Fear and Trembling

>>11909546
The shills for orthodoxy on this board only like it because they have deluded themselves into believing it is a Jacobian affair. The truth of the matter is the world "orthodox" is used as an empty superlative. Figures why the far right and the far left both seem to like it so much. Spend any amount of time on r/orthodoxchristianity and you will know what I am talking about.

Don't try to find books to shake you back into your faith, just follow yourself. Either decide on your own if you will have faith or decide that you won't ,but don't be a pussy and ask people to make you feel okay with having faith or for people to justify why its okay to be an atheist.

>No price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself

>>11909556
>Spend any amount of time on r/orthodoxchristianity

Dude you know nothing about orthodoxy.

>>11909579
No specifics or anything, only vague allusions as if your feelings are meaningful to anyone else?

>>11909579
http://www.strobertbellarmine.net/books/Solovyev--Russia_Universal_Church.pdf
Have fun.

>>11903518
I've experienced the same thing. You're IQ is probably a little too high. A couple of head injuries should sort you out just fine.

>>11906498
>God needs us

why would God need us?

>>11906563
so far impossible to simulate a human soul or life of any kind, thus simulated universe theory is total speculation, even more far out than cartesian skepticism (which it collapses into).

what if this was all a dream, what if this was all an illusion?

at this point the 'what ifs' propagate with such speed and become so outlandish that we must sense that we've made some error along the way

>>11909622
>So far impossible to simulate a human soul

Please demonstrate that such a thing exists.

>>11909632
qualia exist, therefore there is something about human beings that is non-material

>>11909511
Okay

>>11909552
>scripture is in error
Catholic baby please go

>>11906175
>>11906498
So, Gnosticism.

>>11909652
>spasing over bible quotes

he obviously isn’t catholic

>>11909672
Right because the Catholics totally believe in Sola Scriptura, right?

>>11909669
the Gnostic god is benevolent, his standards for Grace are entirely different (and infinitely more demanding than exoteric christfaggotry) since you ofc have to attain noesis instead of just engaging in noxious Tartuffery and supplicating earthly authority your whole life (which is in direct conflict with the initiatic hierarchy that directly drinks from the cup of life and imbibes God’s literal holy flame through his Son’s blood).

>>11909682
>infinitely more demanding
>Here study these super secret doctrines!
>Gz!!!

Also, you know nothing about Christian Mysticism.

>>11909652
lmao aint even a christian kiddo

Mark 16:8
Matthew 28:8

Tell me there's no error in one of those.

>>11909971
I see you don't understand that the Gospel is used as testimony.
Im sorry for you anon

>>11909979
I see you don't understand that one of these testimonies is bullshit(likely both).
Im sorry for you anon

But its not just testimony to many people, its holy scripture free of error(as the other anon said). Obviously you have to be a complete retard to believe such a thing.

>>11909989
Indeed, Obviously I am very retarded. Have a nice day.

Prayers

>>11909992
Okay, you pray for me and i'll think for you!

Gnostic texts
VALIS
The Spear of Destiny

>>11909996
If you mean the sincrerely, then thank you. I honestly really appreciate it. Much love anon.

>>11909643
>qualia
>the internal and subjective component of sense perceptions, arising from stimulation of the senses by phenomena.

I think you're confusing 'soul' for what might be better understood as the electrical stimulation of nervous tissue, or perhaps consciousness itself if you want to expand the matter.

Also, how could a material sensation impact a non-material substance? Wasn't this what people were beating Descartes over the head with way back in the day? I.e. if the physical and non-physical are entirely separate realms, so to speak, how does alcohol impact our thinking?

The claim has been made that souls exist. How does one demonstrate this? What are the properties of a soul? If it is non-material, can it even be known to exist using material conjecture/methods? If it can't be known to exist by material study, are there decent a priori arguments for the existence of a soul itself?

Sorry for the string of questions - non-material stuff is just kinda' interesting and fun to think about.

>>11910003
gnostic texts made me throw out the last of my faith...

>>11910282
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychophysical_parallelism#Spinoza
https://www.iep.utm.edu/hume-cau/
Brain and mind appear to correlate, and it is pragmatic for us to make use of this, but one does not necessarily cause the other, and it is more or less fundamentally unprovable that one causes the other.

>>11910327
>Brain and mind appear to correlate

How do you come to this conclusion? We don't even know where memories are stored, let alone how they're recognized by a retrieval system.

>>11910518
Just because we don't have absolute knowledge of neurophysiology doesn't mean that destroying brain tissues in certain areas doesn't appear to produce particular effects. This is not necessarily causal in the philosophical sense (insofar as the same determination that leads to the tissue damage may also lead to tge alteration in mind, that they are separate threads that appear to converge but are really only following the same line of thought) but it appears to correlate and should be made use of as causal on pragmatic grounds.

>>11910535
Yes the ability to think is hampered when the brain is damaged but this could also be the case if the brain is merely a conduit to a mind completely separate from the brain so it's not a reason to believe the mind and brain are the same thing.

>>11910547
> it's not a reason to believe the mind and brain are the same thing.
I never said they were. Read the links I provided.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychophysical_parallelism#Spinoza
https://www.iep.utm.edu/hume-cau/
Also, as an aside, assuming that the brain is a conduit is just as much as assumption, and is just as essentially unverifiable and as such irrelevant and not very interesting, and from a pragmatic lense is just more masturbation.

>>11905990
not everyone is so autistic that they care about punctuation in every single one of their posts

>>11910722
>assuming that the brain is a conduit is just as much as assumption
Oh is that right?

>>11909166
So everything that exists is provable inside the scientific method?

Is math scientifically provable?

>>11909617
A war, experiment, something else. I doubt that god is omniscient.

>>11910725
>hurr de durrr

>>11903948
Read Scott Hann’s “Many Are Called”. My priest gave it to me and it explains how God has a plan for everyone. Honestly even though I admire the priesthood and it would be amazing to be able to save souls I’m still uncertain to my vocation. Its diffucult and will be something you will think about for some time before making an actual decision. Just pray, anon

>>11910752
BRO you forgot a period at the end of your sentence. How dare you!!!!.

>>11910779
>dur he durr!!!

>>11903518
find a goal

>>11910729
So far as I can tell, yes.

>>11904073
>>11904098
So close anon, yet so far

>>11905484
Because you cannot comprehend divinity. Not only that but you are likely a shitty disordered and corruptive person. You should be praying to God for the intercession of the saints.

>>11905997

>>11911148
Hah! That last panel got me.

Best TJ Kirk photoshop I've seen in a while.

>>11903948
you have to be able to complete schoolwork and sustain constant criticism/scrutiny from your formatter, spiritual director, Bishop, peers, etc. It's definitely not something everyone can do even if they have accomplished nothing. Once you are a priest the administrative responsibilities alone can be close to as demanding as running a small business. That being said if you have a strong calling in your heart and are actually in good faith while feeling that calling go for it.

t. prospective seminarian who has been told to wait a year. Feel free to ask me more about the process even though it does differ diocese to diocese.
God Bless!

>>11905501
Jesus worked as a Carpenter in Nazareth for a long time before starting his formal ministry. It's not a hard in fast rule that you have to hold a job for x amount of years to get into seminary. it's just a testimony to your stability.

I was told to wait after dropping out of school, doing ministry, and going back to school. They had little evidence I could hold myself down and dedicate myself to something let alone a whole vocation. There is still an investment the diocese has to make in you. Do not say "the world is x" I cannot do some thing. You have agency and free will. God will provide a place for you if you are really called to priesthood.
God Bless

>ctrl+f
>"simone weil"
>0 result

wtf /lit/ ?

>>11903518
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xq3UX8yIBZI
listen to this
also anything by C.S.Lewis

>>11911521
true

>>11910761
See >>11904693

>>11911475
See >>11904354, >>11904693
I appreciate the posts still. I wish you both well.

>God isn't gendered
>But you have to use male pronouns for him

>>11903825
>I don’t believe in god
>but I act like I do

pick one

>>11903876
Based and gracepilled

Seminary/Priest anons like this guy >>11911475
1. If admitted, is enrollment the start of the next acedmic year or is it more immediate?

2. Can the duration of it be shortened if you already have considerable background in philosophy, theology and further graduate education?

>>11912142
It's an allegorical aspect you tard.

>>11912352
:)

>>11911131
Do not tell me I am Far from God anon.

>>11912638
Pride, the post.

>>11910282
my point is that consciousness (which is immaterial), proves that there is an immaterial substance in human beings

I'm an agnostic, what books will make me a Christian?

>>11912920
Confessions - St. Augustine

>>11913001
Even if it doesn't, still a good book regardless.

>>11912688
What?

>>11913244
Exactly.

>>11913246
Anon, if you are Christian, you know not to judge other people.
You also understand God is always close, and never far.
Shame on you

Bump

>>11908158
Ok I have time to go through the arguments more thoroughly if you want.

>>11912440
>1. If admitted, is enrollment the start of the next acedmic year or is it more immediate?
enrollment will likely start at the first (fall) semester in America. Spring is a great time to start the application process so the vocations director has time in the summer to take care of everything.

>2. Can the duration of it be shortened if you already have considerable background in philosophy, theology and further graduate education?
They probably won't throw you a bone just for having a background in philosophy. In fact, the school my diocese sends to wouldn't take certain upper level philosophy credits from a school my friend went to before. If you have an actual bachelor's in philosophy you could probably go straight into major seminary and be deaconized within a few years.

>>11908169
>assume an eternal soul because it's necessary for religious faith
>use it to argue the belief in some kind of bearded guy in the sky
You realize your argument is entirely circular, right?

>>11914129
I've read of a few physicians who became priest. Would they start out at major seminary or beyond? I cannot imagine going through undergrad (4 years) to medical school (4 years) to residency (3 to 8 years depending on specialty) followed by some practice and then 4+ years of seminary. I'd imagine such a members main obligations would be serving clergy needs rather than typical clerical duties.

>>11905868
real life is a sort of hell. I could never forgive anyone who made it. Imagine being trapped in a paraplegic's body? Or succumbing to multiple sclerosis? Or any other medical freak disease that leaves one in pain for decades, only to die and have everyone breathe a sigh of relief?

life is fundamentally flawed.

that's why I am a Gnostic

>>11915169
uh why would they serve clergy medical needs? Diocesan priests live in the world of lay people. They go to lay doctors and get their haircut at lay barbers. Maybe you speak of priests of different orders who live in communities? The seminary exists so that priests can be educated in the things that are important for their job. Medical school, however long it is, doesn't provide that.

If someone was actually called to priesthood after their medical PhD they probably wouldn't go to minor seminary, that is true. People that I know that entered after receiving a non phil bachelor's have done bachelors of theology and masters of divinity for major seminary. The absolute minimum you need to start masters of divinity is a minor in philosophy and 9 credit hours of theology.

>>11915192
Dumbass a big point of Christianity is that this life is imperfect for a reason, and the only perfect place is Heaven.

For sinful man cannot be born in Heaven, they are bound to earth.

Gnosticism is a disgusting pagan system

>>11903518
The Creed in Slow Motion?

I believe in Jesus but I do not believe in heaven or hell. Life is a reaction, it's organic and it's always changing. I believe there will always be a stage, for those willing to play the part but the stage isn't the important part it's what you bring to it. Jesus took on the greatest suffering for the greatest love, the love of God and as humans we have this deep longing for harmony. We're all reaching out for a connection, to dance with real spirit and have a few laughs before we leave the stage. We have been awarded the gift of awareness, and this can be painful but pain is beautiful baby.

>>11915198
if God is good, and God is all powerful, why would he trap certain people inside of bodies that only consist of pure pain until they die? how are they supposed to pray their way out of that one?

Also, if you think about it, God wants us to pray, right? What good has praying ever done? Praying just amounts to wasted time, if we really wanted to help other people we would try to advance technology and science, which have ridded us of the world's major diseases among trillions of other benefits while prayer has done absolutely nothing ever?

Also, what is heaven like? It's supposed to be the greatest place ever, right? Do animals go to heaven? Do low IQ people go to heaven? Do infants who were immediately aborted go to heaven? Is their soul judged based on the 10 seconds of squirming they did unconsciously before they died? What form do people in heaven have, their form in youth or their form in old age? If you loved someone on Earth, but then went to heaven while they went to hell, how could you call that heaven if you don't get to see the person you loved? Is love of God really so much more important than love of other people that we should just abandon them like that, forever in order to go to utopia? I don't think even God would agree with that one.

Christianity has too many holes..Gnosticism is an ephemeral belief system that doesn't really have rules because there are so many offshoots, but what I appreciate about it is that it acknowledges the world is imperfect and it was created by an evil (or just stupid) person, and that true salvation lies in consciousness, from which things like science comes which actually solves problems in the real world.

>>11915213
You need to read the Bible.
Jesus even talks about the Heaven and Hell.

How can you believe him, if you don't trust his word?

>>11915216
I've read the New Testament and like half of the Old. I just think the nature of reality is we're only aware between dreams, and there's nothing that really sticks except acts of kindness. The message of Jesus sticks because he was the lowest of the low, offering salvation to all who believe in him. But we have to think clearly about realms, can there be a realm that's only one thing? Goodness? Badness? I don't think so. It's a blessing that reality contains multitudes, many dimensions. Dimensions where God exists, dimensions where God doesn't exist. But there will always be someone.

>>11915215
>if God is good, and God is all powerful, why would he trap certain people inside of bodies that only consist of pure pain until they die? how are they supposed to pray their way out of that one?
They don't? Go read the bible. Yes life sucks, the Bible teaches you how to overcome this. (Faith in God)
After life you will be in Heaven, if you have faith. Certain people? More like all people submit to this life.


>What good has praying ever done?
God always answers, and it strengthens my faith.

>Also, what is heaven like? It's supposed to be the greatest place ever, right?
Yes
>Do animals go to heaven?
No
>Do low IQ people go to heaven?
What? Of course.
>Do infants who were immediately aborted go to heaven?
God saves who he wishes, So I'm inclined to say yes.
>What form do people in heaven have, their form in youth or their form in old age?
Bodies of their perfect youth. Gone of all ailments.
> If you loved someone on Earth, but then went to heaven while they went to hell, how could you call that heaven if you don't get to see the person you loved?
Loving a sinner would be hard, especially if you knew how Jesus said love him over all others. Also God is just.

>Is love of God really so much more important than love of other people that we should just abandon them like that, forever in order to go to utopia? I don't think even God would agree with that one.
Yes, he even says so in the Bible.
Mathew 10:37


>Christianity has too many holes
Name one. Inb4 belief in God.

>>11915233
Can't help ya then buddy, Wish I could.
Honestly pray and you'll get an answer. Seek a loving God, and he'll reveal his true Glory to you, it's life changing.

>>11915239
I don't want to pester you with questions, but at what intelligence does a person become more than an animal and thus is liable to go to heaven? What if people exist in the future that have intelligences that fluctuate over time instead of being fixed? Does it take the average and go from there? Does it split the person in half?

"Bodies of their perfect youth. Gone of all ailments." But what is an ailment? Isn't having a big nose sort of an ailment? Isn't being ugly an ailment? What about if they had a mental illness, and that mental illness characterized them as a person, so that after their illness was removed magically it was like they were a completely different person anyways and then no one of their old families could recognize them?

Why did God create the world just to judge people? Can't he just do it by himself because he is all powerful?

idk dude...also abortion babies don't go to heaven, they don't deserve it. They just don't fit into the heaven or hell system. They need a rerun or something

Also...."God always answers, and it strengthens my faith." So nothing basically. Just feelings. You could have worked out instead for however long you usually pray and maybe that would have caused you to avoid a disease or health issue, which would be a real benefit. Didn't Jesus in the parable of the gold coins say not to waste your resources and instead to come back with something tangible instead of burying your gold coin? By praying you are wasting your time just as that one guy wasted his gold coin by hiding it whereas instead you could have used that time for something else, which God himself says is true so.....

"God" is just evil..or dumb

Also where do souls come from? Why do the number of souls keep increasing (as population increases)? What is the need for more souls?? Why is this not explained anywhere?

Also where do people who were born before Christianity spread go? It seems they are just Fucked even though they did nothing wrong. Purgatory isn't an answer either because its bullshit and might as well be hell.

and I can come up with more shit all day, I used to be Christian so I thought about these things all the time

>>11915196
Interesting, I don't know why it would nor was I arguing for that to be the case. I just can't imagine any other reason for someone to switch to the priesthood after already committing so much of their life to something else unless there was some incentive like a shortened path. Though, if it is what they want to do, this is just a sunk cost fallacy.

>>11915215
>too many holes
aka questions that most practicing adult Catholics can give decent answers for.
>the world isn't perfect now so it must created by a retarded or evil person!
Or it could still be that [insert basic Christianity here].

>>11915291
that one guy answered and they were shit answers. God just makes up shit as he goes along. We need a new Jesus to come down and explain this shit....shit like AI and abortion and consciousness and a million other points

also your point is stupid because God is all powerful so he can make a perfect world if he wants, but he won't which suggests he is evil.

at this point it's just contrived...I understand why Christianity exists and I would say it has a positive role in the world but if you look at it too closely it falls apart. That's all I'm saying.

>>11915280
>idk dude...also abortion babies don't go to heaven, they don't deserve it. They just don't fit into the heaven or hell system. They need a rerun or something
Misunderstanding of Christianity. Nobody is "deserving" of heaven, it's a gift FREELY given to us. Dying with mortal sin is what will prevent you from heaven and babies never commit mortal sin. it can be assumed that God (who is all powerful) could save them if he chooses and since he is all merciful he does.

>but at what intelligence does a person become more than an animal and thus is liable to go to heaven?
You're just arbitrarily defining what a human is to make a non argument. We believe the human is anything conceived by the human race end of story. IQ/awareness/health/race/gender doesn't matter. Even if someone's earthly body and mind isn't perfect their glorified bodies in heaven are, this is Church teaching.

>Also...."God always answers, and it strengthens my faith." So nothing basically. Just feelings. You could have worked out instead for however long you usually pray and maybe that would have caused you to avoid a disease or health issue, which would be a real benefit. Didn't Jesus in the parable of the gold coins say not to waste your resources and instead to come back with something tangible instead of burying your gold coin? By praying you are wasting your time just as that one guy wasted his gold coin by hiding it whereas instead you could have used that time for something else, which God himself says is true so.....
again you miss the entire point of Christianity and the parable. It's not to be a perfect person on earth. It may seem like praying won't benefit you in any earthly ways (it does) but ultimately it doesn't matter. You really think JESUS of all people in a PARABLE was literally talking about earthly resources? You exist to love God and be loved by him and prayer is how we engage in that relationship while we are on earth.

>>11915300
>also your point is stupid because God is all powerful so he can make a perfect world if he wants, but he won't which suggests he is evil.
what is your idea of perfect? could this differ from someone else's definition of perfect? could it differ from God's definition of perfect? In Christianity the world was made perfect and humans were given free will. Do you believe free will was an imperfection? Do you believe agency = evil? Does a perfect father never allow their children to make a mistake or experience any suffering? How can someone who offers perfect existence (heaven) for all eternity be evil?

Felix Cupla. Oh happy fault, which gained for us so great a redeemer!

>>11915285
Their incentive is the highest vocation anon I'm not sure what else there is too it.

>>11909166
How do you explain miracles then? Assuming the people that they happen to don't lie about it.

Young Goodman brown by Nathaniel Hawthorne

This has been a good thread.

Factotum - Bukowski

>>11915599
agreed

>>11903518
Just go for the metaphoric truth meme, read origins and history of consciousness, phenomenology of spirit, the birth of tragedy, realize that god wasn't real in the way you thought he was, but that just means your image of the divine was faulty.

Christopher Hitchens God is not great

>>11915969
>taking it personally
Not gonna make it.

>>11915280
>Also where do souls come from? Why do the number of souls keep increasing (as population increases)? What is the need for more souls?? Why is this not explained anywhere?

God makes them, I don't get why you think that was a good point.

>>11915599
Thanks this was my thread friend.

>>11903857
It's because of the feminine nature of the Divine, the Holy Spirit is feminine, or Sophia the Wisdom of God is also feminine - so you get a lot of help in a constructive way regardless.

>>11908600
You critically think contradictions so much that your rational mind implodes into a black hole of servitude towards the kinds of this world.

>>11904121
Medieval trickery and lies.

It stopped happening with the fall of church after renaissance.

And it entirely stopped today in the era of cameras and internet.

>>11905704
Accept blacks but discriminate for moral behavior.
In the case of immigrants, adopt our culture fast - because we discriminate against yours.