/lit/ - Literature

Is the translation published by Arktos okay?

>>11899897
Probably.

bump

>>11899886
This is a great book and underrated too.

>>11899897
I think that may be the only one.

>>11899897
Arktos' translations are fantastic, but some of Evola's books have slight typos.

>>11899886
>most likely Saturday afternoon (10/13) a thread will be posted.
How is 13th oct a Saturday?

>>11900698
Hmm...

lost in thought...

Is the discussion gonna happen on this board? Some place like some anonymous chat group in an app like, say, wire or signal would be great for discussions. Do consider. I'm actually interested in this.

>>11899886
>that cover
cringe

seems like shit

>>11899886
>In Spengler's view, western culture will be destroyed from within by materialism, and destroyed by others through economic competition and warfare.

Where does he say this? I'm about 3/4s of the way through and I haven't found any conclusions even remotely like this.

From what I've read, he thinks the west has made a Faustian bargain by allowing its technics to solve the big problems (i.e. allowing science to replace religion) and even admits that the "Faustian" European Culture is probably not the last (pp 78), saying another culture may arise between the Vistula and the Amur (ie Eastern Europe, Middle East, East Asia).

Can you point to a page number where he comes to a conclusion like this? Or are you referring to some other text where he says this?

>>11900706
Ah, I fucked up sorry

>>11900745
Quoted the wrong line, meant to quote this:
>Spengler especially pointed to the tendency of Western technology to spread to hostile "Colored races" which would then use the weapons against the West

This is the questionable line.

>>11900745
OP here. I copied that from wiki as a quick primer for people.

I just started my read through, but I believe what you're looking for is actually in the last pages so keep reading.

Spengler sounded interesting but OP's copy/pasted from somewhere explanation sounds retarded, i guess i'll have to read this at some point this week to check by myself if it's only 50 pagers

>>11899886
Based. I'll have it read by next weekend.

>>11899886
The epub seems kind of shit what's the best goat for the eng version?

>>11900927
>puts on the glasses
>becomes an NPC
????

>>11899897
The picture in the OP is the Arktos one.

bump

>>11900971
Translation is good, low quality tho, can't even write on the paper it seeps through

>>11900698
it's okay anon, only the Faustian man has a sincere grasp of recorded time and calendars

>>11903292
>implying this is a good thing

>>11902511
Write your annotations in pencil.

>>11903484
Should I? I hate the feeling of pencil so much I am perpetual pen user.

>>11903717
It's either that or bitch about it.

>>11900698
might be a bit too early for my tastes.

>>11903292
>the Faustian man

What is this meme? Spengler was against being Faustian.

>>11899886
Spengler kil himself if he saw himself relegated to kitschy arktos catalogue

>>11900927
wut.

>>11904851
Why? He hated art.

>>11906254
huh

>>11904838
Not that guy, but Spengler is pretty clear in Man and Technics that high culture is the result of the west's Faustian bargain. So even though he sees it overall as a tragedy, he thinks the beauty and achievement of the west is because of their technics applied to everything.

>>11904851
Butt Spengler is already kil

>>11906270
source? absurd comment

>MOHLER'S CONSERVATIVE REVOLUTION TRANSLATED TO ENGLISH AS OF 4 DAYS AGO

WHAT

>>11904851
>>11906270
>>11908441
sPENGER DIDN'T HATE ART, HE JUST THOUGHT (CORRECTLY) THAT THE wEST SHOULD MOVE PAST ART AS WE'RE PAST OUR CREATIVE STAGE NOW,

>>11908964
so what now after art? memes?

>>11908948
big if true

>>11908964
hmmm....i recall zizek making a similar claim...something about hegel and how now we shouldn't try to value good aesthetics but instead put Hitman 2 in your top 10 films of all time

>>11910555
https://www.amazon.com/Conservative-Revolution-Germany-1918-1932/dp/1593680597

will i enjoy this if i hated reading about the history of mathematics?
could Vico write something better on this subject as well?

>>11900756
its been a while since i read man and technics.
the part you quoted is at the very end (in the last 5%).
this is the original german quote (i only read the german original):
"Wo es Kohle, Erdöl und Wasserkraft gibt, kann eine neue Waffe gegen das Herz der faustischen
Kultur geschmiedet werden. Hier beginnt die Rache der ausgebeuteten Welt gegen ihren Herren.
Mit den unzähligen Händen der Farbigen, die ebenso geschickt und viel anspruchsloser arbeiten,
wird die Grundlage der weißen wirtschaftlichen Organisation erschüttert."

>>11911220
>Trying to be a conservative intellectual
>can't read German

>>11911781
this is why we inaction on Climate Change is actually strategically smart, we should only bolster ourselves and our own infrastructure

if we let it run its course and devastate the rest of the world we will be freed from the danger of retaliation

i'm memeing but unironically think about it

bump

Reminder to read lads, discussion thread will be posted on Saturday. I'll have a few prompts but if others can post theirs too that'd be great.

>>11913070
I would but like I said too early.

>>11913101
ye I meant just have them ready for the thread

>>11909609
>>11910913
For Spengler, art and aesthetics are something created in the Culture stage of a civilization, when spiritual creativity, religiousness, and inner life are at their zenith. The Culture stage ends when the traditional state-form is overthrown in revolution and the politics of money comes to dominate. For us, obviously, this refers to the Revolutions of 1776 and 1786 as well as the Wars of Napoleon. When the Ancien Regime is overthrown in favor of money, the city conquers the rural and Culture becomes Civilization. Notice how the art of the 19th and 20th centuries is characterized by steadily deconstructing the aesthetics the previous 1000 years of Culture had been building upon. Civilization does not create new art, it can only deconstruct, revive, and borrow. This is because Civilization lacks inner form, it is entirely material. It does not create from the inside, it dominates the outside, expanding into an Imperium until it collapses under its own weight and is overtaken by youthful barbarians.

>>11913279
I always thought that Romanticism was the zenith of Western culture, do you think it's actually just reproduction, borrowing, and imitation? I think it's still fairly original in the sense that it can be thought of as a direct reaction to the advent of technics and the beginning of the transition into civilization stage.

Civilization starts with the 20th century I think, and becomes widely apparent it has arrived with the Great War. There's too much sincere art and culture to discount in the 19th, but really it's almost all gone after WW1, certainly WW2.

>>11913121
No I mean we need more time

It's less than 50 pages. The thread will be up for a while too you can just jump in.

>>11913316
>I always thought that Romanticism was the zenith of Western culture
that's because you're a retarded faggot with bad taste

>>11913316
Obviously there's no hard dividing line when talking about this sort of stuff. That said, Spengler considers Napoleonism the last major 'event' marking the end of Culture and the beginning of Civilization. It coincides with revolutions replacing traditional, spiritually-based state-forms with money-motivated mass politics characterized by democracy and demagoguery. The Classical analogy for this is Alexander's Napoleonism and the polis state-form being replaced with political Hellenism. Wars of Annihilation like the World Wars are considered firmly within the Civilizational period rather than a signal of the beginning of Civlization.

Spengler actually explicitly talks about art movements like Romanticism and Classicism. He considers them to art what fascism is to politics: inauthentic attempts at appealing to and mobilizing the masses. Take Wagner, for instance. He's not creating his own stories, mythology, settings so much as he's just rehashing old Germanic myths in a grand way that everyone in the Civilization can appreciate. It's almost exactly what Disney's done, admittedly in a more epic fashion than Disney. If Culture is the creative ascent and Civilization the exhaustive decline, the Napoleon-figure is the peak.

>>11913279
>>11913516
sounds interesting, i'll have to read this now

>>11899886
Any books one should have read before this or will I be okay jumping right in?

>>11915176
it's ok to read something and be confused by it, don't fall for the "you have to read everything before reading this"-meme

>>11913426
Yeah but it takes time to see the thread and get the book. Not everyone is on here 24/7 neet leader.

reminder

>>11917618
Reminder >>11916461

bump

Bump

remember remember, i have yet to read this fucking shit and i haven't yet

>>11920013
Same. Probably going to wait until this fails and the person tries it again since I won't be able to get the book just yet and no one wants to wait any longer.

>>11920020
it's in archive.org though, from OP
>>11899886
>https://archive.org/details/ManTechnics-AContributionToAPhilosophyOfLife193253/page/n3N

>>11920034
Some people still want to buy the fucking book.

He never engineered anything, he doesn't have skin in the game.

>>11920038
you can read it in pdf and buy it too

>>11899886
>The book itself is only about **50 pages**
50 MS Word pages, which is a lot more pages in actual pages

still trying to read it in time though

How is this not /pol/itics?

>>11920983
It's a book. It's literature.

>Every high Culture is a tragedy. The history of mankind as a whole is tragic. But the sacrilege and the catastrophe of the Faustian are greater than all others, greater than anything Æschylus or Shakespeare ever imagined. The creature is rising up against its creator. As once the microcosm Man against Nature, so now the microcosm Machine is revolting against Nordic Man. The lord of the World is becoming the slave of the Machine, which is forcing him — forcing us all, whether we are aware of it or not — to follow its course. The victor, crashed, is dragged to death by the team.
this guy sounds like nick land

>>11911874
mean

>>11920038
>>11916461
Cmon people it’s not like the discussion thread will expire in a matter of 2 days

>>11920020
>>11920013

Lads just print out the pdf and read it.

How many people here actually do want to wait another week vs how many don't?

>>11920219
Or you can just wait and buy the book and not screw up your fucking eyes even more. I highly doubt you all have upcoming plans that mean we have to start with this ASAP.

>>11921509
print it in your job if you are a wagecuck or in the university if you are a debtcuck or tell your mom to buy you a printer if you are a NEET

>>11921495
i wouldn't wait, there's always going to be somebody who hasn't read it yet, and there's nothing stopping them to discuss the book another day again

>>11921495
I would wait, you do want to maximise participation after all and there's no reason you have to make the thread one certain day versus another later date.

>tfw read it 3 weeks ago in the original German
sup nerds

>>11913516
Can you elaborate on political Hellenism and what it has in common with modern day governments/society's?

Ok OP here,

Thread will be up Saturday (tomorrow) night to Sunday morning. Have some stuff to do early tomorrow first, going to do a read through in a sitting, and then post the thread.

>>11924321
Ok have fun with your little PDF circle jerk OP. Was going to get the book soon but nah it had to be this weekend!

>50 pages of reading due by tomorrow
seriously though, what are the odds of any book store stocking this? i can't read on the computer screen my eyes will burn

>>11924410
you're reading on a computer screen now, dumbass

>>11924410
This is why other people have been wanting to push the reading group back by a bit so people can order the book and have time to read it.
>>11924414
Yeah because reading 50 pages of philosophy on a screen is the same as reading your average /lit/ shitposts.

>>11924410
print it out doublesided with two pages of the book on each side of the printer paper. if you don't have a printer ask if you can borrow your mom's

>>11924414
yeah, but i only check threads every so often, i'm not constantly staring at the screen, straining my eyes and rereading intricately crafted sentences and contemplating on what the author meant. i could print it out i guess, bu then i have to use my mom's printer and inevitably she's going to ask me what i'm printing and what am i gonna say? "its just nazi literature, mom, you wouldn't get it?" she didn't even like trump

>>11924443
All the more reason for people to just buy the book and have the thread at a later date.

okay i just snuck into her room and got the printer while she was asleep now how do i print the pdf?

>>11924334
>>11924410
>>11924422
>>11924474
>>11924443
>>11924490

Holy fuck you guys, print the damn .pdf.

here is the link for the DL idk if the one in the OP works

http://www.freepdf.info/index.php?post/Spengler-Oswald-Man-and-Technics-A-Contribution-to-a-Philosophy-of-Life

>>11924576
Holy fuck you people don't order to the book for a book discussion just print it off!

>>11924576
just finished printing it. used half a cartridge of color ink because i didn't have black, this shit cost me at least 10 dolars and i accidently loaded some graph paper in there too

>>11924586
More evidence this should be delayed and people should just be given time to order the book.

>>11924589
i mean the threads been up for 5 days, we can't really complain. if i cared that much i would've just not read it and not given a fuck

>>11924596
I mean people have lives outside of /lit/ and we can be free to complain all we want. The whole point is that people do care all that much.

>>11924607
the world doesn't revolve around you sweetie

>>11924618
Nor does it revolve around you. Which is why the schedule is fucking arbitrary and should be subject to change based on inputs given here.

>>11924583
this thread was posted 5 days ago why didn't you order it then?

>>11924586
>used half a cartridge of color ink

mommy won't be happy

>>11924607
>>11924589

ok after this guy's printing mishap I genuinely feel bad now, what do you think is a reasonable time to delay it to?

>>11924626
fair point, but i'm not the one in charge. when a decision has been made to do something at an agreed upon point in time, the decision to change that point in time shouldn't fall to newcomers. its an ironic thing to suggest when we're talking about discussing material by someone who believes the west is in decline, what with the US (and i assume other western euro countries as well, but i don't really know about their politics because, frankly, they're irrelevant europoors) being so eager to allow shitskin immigrants (even illegals) with no connection to the country, aside from the fact that they just showed up here, have their voices heard via the ballot box.

>>11924607
Still, if you can't read 50 pages within 5 days, that's pretty pathetic.

>>11924673
It's a matter of the book taking time to be delivered, not the time it takes to read it you fucking pathetic idiot.

>>11924673
If you don't read this book at least 5 times taking 5 minutes each for a page you did it wrong.

>>11924687
So what? You can read the ebook. Bitching about muh eyesight for reading on a computer screen doesn't hold water either. What do you think you're doing right now?

>>11924410
See the following posts
>>11924703
>>11924422
>>11924443
So what? You all can wait a fuck bit longer.

>>11924714
there's always a reason to wait, you'll never get anything done

you all herbivores in this thread lack the faustian spirit to do whatever it takes to print this pdf

The information age changed everything, organic life won't be a slave to silicon however the two will eventually meet up and merge together.

It's not a bad or good thing, it's just evolution in a sense.

>>11924964
it's just a meme

redpillme on Spengler, what's the importance of this guy?

>>11926452
Not major but significant.

>>11926452
If you want to be big brained and unrefutable, just parrot his arguments.

>>11926662
the chapter on the hand and evolution was a bit weak

>>11926668
True, his views on race are too. But it works out fine.

>>11924860
it took me an hour to print that pdf last night, bitch. i did what it took, fuck you

>>11926719
Real thoroughbred over here, lads. Did you also print out fitting images to put between the pages to illustrate various points yet?

>>11926730
n-no

when is this happening then

The similarities between left-wing and right-wing cultural criticism are fascinating

>>11927471
OP here. I got a fuck ton of homework to do right now, I'll get around to posting it at some point not before tomorrow though.

>>11927471
>>11927677
OP here. This man can not be trusted. I'll probably just wait until next weekend due to a lot of people still wanting to join in on this.

>>11927823
Ok fine, next weekend it is then. You fuckers better order your books right now or at least steal mommy's printer. And you better have some good questions and discussion points to bring up.

>>11927854
>mfw i printed this at 1AM and crammed all last night and all day today

>>11927823
Guaranteed most will forget about it

>>11928795
Yep. I bet OP killed the reading group discussion by caving in to the NO ITEMS HARDCOPY ONLY FINAL DESTINATION faggots.

>>11928953
it was definitely just one guy samefagging too. what a faggot

>>11928953
>>11928973
Probably is someone here who is actually samefagging all the people who wanted the date changed lmao.

>>11928973
>>11928953
>>11928795

oh shut up people, you get another week to mull it over.

>>11928953
>NO ITEMS HARDCOPY ONLY FINAL DESTINATION

I sympathize with these people because yes reading the book is certainly a different experience than a pdf or even printed out paper.

now people, why don't you go read it over again one more time, and we'll kick this off Friday

>>11929125
Faggot

Bump