/lit/ - Literature

>>12056881
nope
now what

>>12056881
i feel like the idea that 'all men are equal' that popped up at some point in Europe is literally the only reason that the Africans weren't exterminated

>>12056881
>Has it produced anything, ANYTHING, of value?
It has produced everything. EVERYTHING of value.

Objectively yes

>>12056881
I studied philosophy because it was the only major that required zero maths and statistics.

>>12056881
This post doesn't make any sense at all.

Just study history, not philosophy, and you'll see how much of an impact has philosophical thought made in societies.

From the Greek Poleis to Iluminism in modernity, with theological and philosophical debate in between, during the Middle Ages, philosophy has permeated all spheres of intelectual (not only religious) thought as much as language itself has done so.

Philosophy invented your bloody computer, wanker.

>Has it produced anything of value?

The entire methodology of social science
The framework of understanding (mechanical philosophy) which lead to Newton's system and proper natural science
All relevant political ideologies
All ethical systems

Logic

>>12056951
>The entire methodology of social science
garbage
>All relevant political ideologies
yeah, those were a sequences of home runs
>All ethical systems
Like we give a shit about morals.

>>12056932
But of course, the main engine of social change isn't thought, but economics and struggles for power.

According to a recent historian, I think it was Braudel, and some interpretation on his thought from Guy Bois (another historian) it is as if drastic historical changes, like the ones produced by changes in the mode of production, happen first in a short span of years by economical crisis, but then the changes deepen in the form of political crisis, and then, centuries later, this changes are reflected in ideological crisis.

>>12056929
Then it was a bad degree.

>>12056951
>The entire methodology of social science
HHAHAHAHAHAHHAAH HAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAH AHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHA AHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHA

>>12056963
Be grateful swine, it has afforded you much suffering

>The entire methodology of social science
>garbage
You're garbage.
>All relevant political ideologies
>yeah, those were a sequences of home runs
Yeah lets go back to primitivism
>All ethical systems
>Like we give a shit about morals.
We did until postmodernism, now we have the plethora of ignorance blowing up in our faces, expect a dictator soon

>>12057268
>expect a dictator soon
One can only hope

>>12056929
Ironically, most great philosophers have had a serious background in math and/or statistics. Leibniz invented calculus for god's sake.

Sounds like a problem with college taught philosophy, not the subject in general.

>>12056881
Philosophy is just what people who desperately want to be seen as smart but are too stupid for STEM do.

>>12056881
> Has it produced anything, ANYTHING, of value
> value

Sounds like a question for the philosophers desu.

>>12057275
>Ironically, most great philosophers have had a serious background in math and/or statistics.
Nowadays it's mostly physics and maths guys that start "experimenting" with philosophy once they get older but more as a means to kill time than due to genuine interest.

>>12057270
It won't be a nice humble king, it'll be a sensory addict at least 729 times as entitled to what he essentialized as OP

The problem is more that a large portion of modern philosophers are indeed hacks and so are the teachers.

>>12056881
Based and STEMpilled

>>12057305
STEMlards are too autistic and detail oriented for philosophy.

>>12057354
Every academic field is subject to universities abusing it for the production of free labor (PHD students) and prestige.

Not sure what you mean by 'hack', but I agree that a large portion of modern philosophers are simply unneeded and are not producing much of interest. That said, this relates less to the field of study and more to the dynamics placed upon it. I still appreciate most successful modern philosophers and think they have done something worthwhile.

>>12056881
Autistic internet arguments between autists.

>>12057388
The most autistic arguments are in the philosophy journals anon

>>12057385
Agreed, most fields of study whether they be STEM or the humanities produce volumes of papers and books (check arXive to see what I mean) yet most of it just isn't that interesting. I do not believe this is because these graduates are useless in there fields, but due to how specialized knowledge has become. I mean, there are only a handful of people in the world interested in analytical Marxism or quantum biology (as it is a burgeoning field) but that does not mean that the papers on these subjects (or their writers) are useless.

>>12057391
Internet arguments are more numerous and amusing, though

>>12056881
It lets people articulate what is happening around them. This functions as a way to help organize everyone to make their actions more easily directed and maintained.

Philosophy is the same craft as a man taking materials apart and finding new ways of putting them together.

>>12057425
4chan has a flavor of authenticity because the spergs have all turned-toward their angst; with the idea of suicide comes the reconciliation that "if death is so present-at-hand, might as well see what happens before leaving"

>>12056888
wtf, I hate philosophy now

>>12056940
Keep dreaming, denialist. Philosophy is nothing more than mental masturbation, satisfying but insignificant.

Heidegger was right:

https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0009433

>>12056881
Try to consider what you mean by 'value'.

If it is in scientific studies, you will find by studying the scientific method throughout history.

You will find that the common assertion that science and technology are developed by empirical research, which by necessity leads one experiment to the obvious next experiment, is false.

Science is highly dependent upon intuition. This is where the 20th and 21st century philosophers argued that philosophy enters the picture, because scientists need to philosophize an integration of experimental results to intuite a direction of their field of study.

Other philosophers like Heidegger's argues for a far more distinctive line of distinguishment by the provocative phrase: 'Scientists does not think'.

>>12056881
the cogito, mandate of heaven, neoplatonism (which is p. much how we are taught to think in the west), also some philosophy books are fun to read, so it also constitutes as something of value.

>>12057268
>plethora of ignorance

>>12056881
>Has philosophy solved a single problem or answered a single question in its 2500+ year history?
Ayn Rand solved all of them.

>Has it produced anything, ANYTHING, of value?
The objectively correct system of morality and form of government. Final nail in the coffin of religion.

>>12056881
define value
You probably mean just the purely explicit materialist utilitarian one by the looks of it which is shallow interpretation of the word "value" at best and it also misses implicit influences philosophy had on society which in turn do have some materialistic utilitarian capabilities although they are not core and center of philosophy because most philosophers who aren't complete garbage have rejected in some form or another this materialistic utilitarian point of view on what value is
Semi related question; Are you an atheist OP?

>>12058423
if Ayn Rand is your pinnacle of philosophy you have plenty of books to go through before you can say anything positive or negative about philosophy tbqh
Also philosophy didn't kill religion, it reinforced it, it was materialism that murdered religion and with it any conception of morality that doesn't relate or isn't completely subordinated to material forms of being and value given upon them by people

How has it possibly helped? Philosophy is pointless in the real world virtually by definition

>>12059912
>crypto-atheist materialist nihilist makes claims about the supposed truth value of philosophy

pottery

>>12059936
Name me one thing philosophy has proved or demonstrated in the past 600 years. Something that was once not known and now is known.

>>12059947
What spawned science? A miracle? How unscientific of you anon

>>12059947
Phil fags btfo

>>12059947
Forming beliefs is a philosophical process. Philosophy is not about what you can do with it, but what philosophy can do to you. Everything is a belief, there is no real knowledge, neither is there such thing as genuine "nothingness," and therefore nothing can "come from nothing," all we "know" is that there is something and not nothing. What is the significance of asking the question "what is"?

>>12059947
the self-consciousness of Reason

>>12059993
So ultimately it's a way for people to justify beliefs they would hold anyway because they agree to their own particular set of axioms and presuppositions

>>12060004
We all make assumptions growing up regardless of it's awareness (t. Cephalus), no need for philosophy for a natural maturation process. "Forming beliefs" is a conscious process, growing personal awareness and transmuting primitive visions into abstract forms that can be analyzed according to how you correspond to the world and the world to you, revealing what possibilities are out there and structuring their significance in finer detail to the extent that they have some relevance to you, or to the extent that you have a level of care for them.

>>12056929
>I studied philosophy because it was the only major that required zero maths
What about formal logic?

>>12057268
>implying social science is anything but garbage

>>12058261
Not only computers, but also gave birth to religion, politics, ideologies, systems, technology design, and the thought that influence you to make this retarded post

thought problems are fun

>>12060412

>>12056971
Marx' meme manifesto already postulates that economic factors drive history and culture follows later, adapting to the material conditions of society.

>>12056881
All knowledge and science are a subset of philosophy. Repeatedly click the first link in any Wikipedia article and eventually you will end up on the philosophy page.

>>12062503
>Marx' meme manifesto
this is a suitable name for it

>>12056881
that very question is philosophical, anon

>>12063094
"Is it worth asking questions" is a valid question too, unfortunately.

>>12056881
Are there puzzles in life and if so are we capable of solving them? Maybe, philosophy is moreso defining the puzzle, not solving it, in truth, the solution is the same thing as the problem itself

>>12059947
Scientific method
Political theory is philosoher
Marxism, or the problems in capitalism
Meaning of the digital change
Philosophy isn't supposed to prove anything, it is to give tools and frameworks to frame the world, and these conceptual instruments change how we understand and interact with the world.

>>12056881
I think, that progress in philosophy seems often neglected, because it might be natural to try to adopt it into culture by more or less rewording it, because this seems to ease application.
Best example: memes. Even the first derivation of the abstract philosophical idea often makes it very hard to see the original, while usually still serving a specialization of its objective.

Few, excluding me, seem to know what, say, Socrates, might have proposed. But I imagine, that society would suffer enormously, were his original ideas consequently forbidden and persecuted.

>>12059947
Name me one thing Architekture has build or created in the past 600 years. Something that was once not there and now is there.

>>12061214
kys

>>12057371
>too autistic and detail oriented
>for philosophy
Philosophers are more autistic and detail oriented than literally anyone else.

>>12056881
Prove to me that anything has ever been solved with absolute certainty or realize that uncertainty is the basis of philosophy and knowledge as a whole.

>>12056888
pretty sure that killing every one of the was bothersome. Also the catholics wouldn't exterminate what they could evangelise

Philosophy isn't a method to "solve" things but to help elucidate problems of language.

That's it.

>>12064769
He means autistic and detail oriented in the sense of systematizing abstract data that has no relation with the social world in which philosophers conceive their theoretical structures around

>>12056881
Modern science?

>>12056881
Science was originally called natural philosophy, science wouldn't exist without philosophers questioning how things work

>>12064776
and yet uncertainty is so inconsequential that we make things that rely on our knowledge every day
and they work

>tfw people can only say hurrrrr philosophy created science hrrururururrr

>>12057275
Most great philosophers studied geometry not the cuckolded field of algebraic mathematics

>>12064909
Anthropocentric "philsophy" is a bad-joke in the current year

>>12064769
I never hear Greeks using hard logic or scientific detail, it's mostly observing and generalizing

>>12064869
This.
It represents a willingness to not take the reality of semantic constructions for granted
I'm sorry some of you feel so undermined by this that you need a safe space free from such questions

>>12066743
That's because abstract algebra is a relatively recent invention bud

>>12058261
Isn't philosophy what layed the foundation for a world based on scientific data and the thought that an objective world doesn't exist?

>>12058301
He wasn't for the most part even wrong

>>12056881
From nothing nothing comes. Allegories are the greatest way to transmit knowledge. Regret if you do regret if you won't.

>>12066746
Understanding human limits and the notion that we filter data (in the broadest of possible interpretations) through psychological, social and pre-conceived beliefs is very much important in our search for truth.
We have yet to find a way to stop being human so we must understand that all of our potential understanding is human. Though not necessarily about humans or from humans.

>>12066771
In what way was that not implied in the previous comment? If abstract algebra is analogous to recent philosophy perhaps there is a reason the field is so abstract and impractical.

>>12066835
We are much more than our special human characters. We are much more than human, we are living! Of course all of our potential understanding is human, but moreso, that potential understanding is living. Human philsophical inquiry, is inquiry into the general nature of life itself through a special case.

>>12063146
true

>>12066686
Physics, the study of matter, for example, is in itself philosophy as answering questions about existence. Phd literally means doctor of philosophy.

>>12066909
>Abstract algebra is abstract
>Algebra is analogous to recent philosophy
Dude quit larping. It's ok, we all do it sometimes.

>>12056881
Epistemology gave us literally all of STEM.

The scratching of an itch is not a remedy but provides comfort nonetheless.
Wittgenstein or something

>>12056971
>the main engine of social change isn't thought, but economics and struggles for power.

But someone had to use their thoughts to formulate how economics is the main engine of social change

>>12067574
You can't have math without logic too

philosophy is the joe rogan of people who think they're too good for joe rogan