/lit/ - Literature

>discovering patterns in our perceptual illusions proves the reality off those illusions
You're special. You'll fit right in with this board.

>>12069073
>has done

They haven't done anything. You have done it by containing them in your Mind.

>>12069073
>presupposing the existence of matter proves there is matter

really makes u think

I’ve been finding myself skeptical that people weren’t materialistic shortly after we developed language.

Even if that isn’t the case its been around long before capitalism which I assume you live under. Even “off the grid “ people usually trade and slip into society from time to time. Even the fucking Amish make much of their money this way. People that are too concerned with this can deconstructi their own lives pretty far however.

>>12069141
I remember when I liked weed too

>>12069141
dude what if reality was just one thing lmao take another puff man

>>12069183
Anon...

>>12069073
But what has priority, matter or its structure?

>>12069073
Define materiality and/or materialism.

>materialism can't explain consciousness
>materialism can't explain gravity
>materialism can't prove cause and effect
But hurr durr it will all be proven to be physical by some hypothetical future physics which will definitely be like current physics

>>12069192
Yas

>>12069073
>being a gnostic cuck

>>12069200
>materialism can't explain consciousness
what's there to explain :^)
>materialism can't explain gravity
what, it's literally just the curvature of space-time
>materialism can't prove cause and effect
technically this doesn't exist at the level of fundamental physics so there is nothing to prove there, and in normal life cause and effect needs no proof.

>>12069210
>what's there to explain :^)

how does matter give rise to appearance?

>>12069210
Why are you thinking? What's keeping galaxies together anon? You believe in invisible undetectable dark matter?

>>12069203
It sounds like you're talking about the concept related to consumerism

>>12069218
Not him but dark matter is literally just the term we use for "mass we can't currently explain", it's not some magical wishy washy thing, it's just a placeholder until physics advances.

>>12069224
refrain from making absolutist claims about the power of SCIENCE until you've gotten rid of the convenient placeholders then, thanks

>>12069224
>it's not some magical wishy washy thing, it's just a placeholder until physics advances.
Pick one
>On the one hand, we may define the physical as whatever is currently explained by our best physical theories, e.g., quantum mechanics, general relativity. Though many would find this definition unsatisfactory, some would accept that we have at least a general understanding of the physical based on these theories, and can use them to assess what is physical and what is not. And therein lies the rub, as a worked-out explanation of mentality currently lies outside the scope of such theories.
>On the other hand, if we say that some future, "ideal" physics is what is meant, then the claim is rather empty, for we have no idea of what this means. The "ideal" physics may even come to define what we think of as mental as part of the physical world. In effect, physicalism by this second account becomes the circular claim that all phenomena are explicable in terms of physics because physics properly defined is whatever explains all phenomena.

>>12069185
>>12069191
actually drugs aren't real lol

>>12069233
I'll pick option 3: if something is inexplicable by materialism, than therefore it's spooky ghost magic. Prove me wrong.

>>12069245
false dichotomy

This is a very bad thread.

>>12069191
10/10

>>12069246
Nice fallacy fallacy, nerd.

'ate panpsychism
'ate platonism

love the analytics

simple as

>>12069255
your argument presupposes cartesian dualism, which the hard problem does not. this is a simple fact. you're wrong. it's a false dichotomy

>>12069261
Wewy wewwwwwy gettin awfully meme in here tonight

Cartesian dualism, simple facts, false dichotomy

>youre wrong.
>.
>.
>QED

Loving it boys keep it going

>>12069269
what a retard

>>12069272
Licky licky you so sticky

Hahahahaha

>>12069218
essentially what >>12069224 said with the addition that what dark matter can be is very heavily constrained

>>12069233
i define the physical to be what is currently posited by our best physical theories, which also makes dark matter physical since it's existence is _forced_ to explain some problems. the only question is what it actually is. there is no need to assume anything to explain conciousness as far as i can tell, it's literally the same thing as vitalism

>>12069231
you do understand the concept of web of belief? the fact that things at the edge of our knowledge are not completely well understood does not imply that things at the center aren't as sure as knowledge can be

>>12069276
>i define the physical to be what is currently posited by our best physical theories

ahahahaha

>i define the physical as only what can be empirically studied, therefore there is only the physical

this is what you sound like.

>>12069276
>i define the physical to be what is currently posited by our best physical theories,

Hahahaha u used the term you were defining in your definition

>>12069276
>there is no need to assume anything to explain conciousness as far as i can tell, it's literally the same thing as vitalism

no it isn't you subhuman NPC droid, you couldn't even begin to tell me how consciousness emerges in matter

Motherfuckers, if the mind doesn't arise from matter then were the fuck does it fucking arise from?

>>12069280
>>12069281
yes? physics is the thing studies by physicists and physicists are the people that study physics

>>12069288
the point is mind having a material ground doesn't exhaust what mind is because of PRECISELY the fact something is being distinguished from matter in the first place you fucking maroon

>>12069288
Imago dei, intellectus, atman, take your pick

>>12069289

Means means means

Lol

>>12069294
Why the fuck should I care about that though? That sounds like gay shit

>>12069300
so you don't out yourself as a brainlet next time

>>12069303
This is anonymous though. I'm going to be posting in the same threads as you in the next 5 minutes and you'll be none the wiser.

>>12069311
autism

>>12069185
>>12069191
As much as I agree that's a silly post and as much as I know these replies are probably bait I do want to mention for any ignorant onlookers that the world possibly being only "patterns in our perceptual illusions" is one of the foundations of Descartes' philosophy.

Yeah people don’t really understand how to differentiate between an aught and an is, and are prone to cherrypicking popular hypothetical scientific considerations which are obviously not complete theories yet and over-simplifying them in order to support their own stupor.

It is quite sad the inability of so many people to engage in honest logical activity.

>>12069141
UNBASED AND FREEPILLED

Kinda weird how none of those scientific discoveries had anything to do with; purpose, meaning, intention, end-directed behavior, etc.

>>12069073
>Literally every scientific discovery in the last 200 years has done nothing but reinforce materialism

>inductive reasoning

>>12069073
>Literally every scientific discovery in the last 200 years has done nothing but reinforce materialism
t. scientifically illiterate dilletante

>>12069073
I used to be a materialist too OP, but I grew out of it

>>12069288
A soul faggot

>>12069141
ok now this is based

>>12069073
>Literally every scientific discovery in the last 200 years has done nothing but reinforce materialism

What did he mean by this

>>12069237
actually, nothing is real because antirealism is based and redpilled lol.

>>12069198
Still haven’t gotten a response to this. I’m not surprised, though. Giving good definitions of those is harder than you’d think

>>12069073
Based and STEMpilled

I just realized that I have zero respect for the posters here.
And I don't mean not respecting you as posters, I mean not respecting you as human beings. I don't even think of you as human beings. Every time I come here just retarded music plays in my head as I watch you all post and I just cackle continuously while I imagine how dumb you all are. It's like going to the zoo and the computer screen is the glass.

>>12070702

>>12070711
See this is what I mean.
It's like watching an ape repeat gestures that he learned from the trainers.

>>12070731
mate nobody cares about your "respect"
the world doesnt revolve around you and never will

>>12070541
not him, but i think that it's apparent at this point that any presumed definition of matter depends on a set of assumptions which are entirely indefensible, no matter how much these very assumptions underlie the human social life.
i also think this is why solipsism is never seriously explored by most intellectuals, because even though >>12069141 is the most parsimonious explanation of "reality", the awareness thereof is a purely personal victory and has no place in the context of society at large.
i feel like this is a poorly worded posts, but i hope you get what i'm gettin at

>>12070702
How's high school goin' champ?

>>12070731

>>12070702
there are plenty of sincere posts in this thread anon (and yes - there's plenty of shit posting too, but most considering that most academics are basically irl shitposters, so what?)
maybe you're unable to separate the wheat from the chaff because you haven't a single grain of an idea to contribute on your own? i don't know. but the problem isn't me bud.

>>12070740
It's not just about my respect.
It's about the objective difference between human beings and animals. I literally think you all are something less than human.

>>12070766
>maybe you're unable to separate the wheat from the chaff because you haven't a single grain of an idea to contribute on your own?
Or it could be that I'm playing the metagame and you're too stupid to realize it because you've got thread blinders on like a good redditor.

>>12070771
>objective difference

>>12070777
>being this butthurt
ya got me
>>12070744

>>12070777
we are all playing the metagame, some people are just tryhards, some just smash buttons, some just come from the doritos and mountain dew

>>12070781
>>12070785
Read the digits and weep you dumb faggots.