/lit/ - Literature

>>12241248
Is that the guy who banged his sister?

>>12241265
yEET

Best Tolkien core.

>>12241445
why? explain why that is?

>>12241248
Not a tale the Hobbits would tell you.

Is Tolkien worth getting into? I usually avoid suck series tho. What would I be getting into if I read it?

>>12242240
Tolkien is the beginning and the end for 20th century fantasy for me. I wouldn't even call it fantasy; I think he himself callied them "faerie stories", in the traditional sense, concerning folklore and mythology. I'd call them epics, because that's what they resemble more than anything else.

>>12241894
Is it posible to learn of this story?

>>12241248
The alliterative verse fragment is amazing, it's impressive to see that in contemporary english.

>>12241248
Pointless.

>>12242243
I actually like epics. I used think Tolkien as Harry Potter tier but if you are right I should try it at least.

Absolute trash, ASOIF is way better in every single regard, only niggers and autists disagree

>>12242337
Tolkien exists in a different dimensional layer, anon. He's an excellent scholar and writer; he did not set out to write pop-fantasy for teenagers.

The Hobbit is actually meant for kids though; it's still an enjoyable read, but quite different from LotR, and especially Children of Húrin.

>>12241248
>2007
>buy it in spanish right after it was released in Argentina
>read it
>2018
>I literally remember shit and I want to read it in english
I'll get it in english and read it again, I can't remember anything.

>>12242340

>>12242378
Learn what literally means first, anon.

>>12242479
At this point it's 4chan slang.

>>12242340
ASOIF is only better for the lower class filth. GOT is just consumerist trash for the unwashed masses who can't appreciate literature.

>>12242337
>I used think Tolkien as Harry Potter tier

If you are dismissing it purely on ground of being popular then that comparison might hold. For all other reasons, the prose, the structure, the thought and attention, purpose and meaning in his works you would be greatly mistaken.

>>12241248
Kalevala did it better

>>12242479
It's preteen girl facebook slang.

Glaurung is the best portrayal of a dragon in literature.

>>12242337
It's nothing like Harry Potter. They're not even comparable.

>>12243270
>>12243083
I often disregard books just for being mainstream to keep my reading list short. I have seen the movies, not the hobbits tho, and liked them. But didn't like them enough to get into the books. Now I am a lil bit interested so where do I start?

>>12241248

Dwarf had a reasonable excuse to do what he did to Turin's party.

>>12243375
the hobbit, the lord of the rings, children of húrin, the simarillion, the book of lost tales

>>12243375
required
>the hobbit, lord of the rings
highly recommended
>the silmarillion
if you liked that
>children of hurin, beren and luthien, the fall of gondolin
if you still want more
>unfinished tales, book of lost tales
and finally
>remanining volumes of history of middle earth series

>>12243404
>>12243491
Thanks a lot anons. I am going to start this after I complete the one I am currently reading.

>>12242243

A good way to see it is that if Tolkien was writing today he probably wouldn't be writing in the "fantasy" genre as it currently stands. What came before him, and what is evident in his own work, were novel explorations of folklore, Germanic and Celtic paganism, and medieval Christianity. What comes after, the sword and sorcery "fantasy" of today, took these ideas and deployed them bereft of their cultural roots. People who are "fans" of Lord of the rings and see it as some kind of spiritual precursor to game of thrones etc have missed the point.

>>12243491
don't forget Orc Posting.
definitely gotta check that out

>>12242240
>tho.
Tie a rope around your neck and kick the stool over

>>12242240
>What would I be getting into if I read it?

Be warned that his stuff is fantasy in the sense of "I'm going to write a contemporary novel in the same style of a classical North European pre-Christian saga (i.e. Beowulf, etc.), using the same type of language and themes that one would expect from such a story". So it's unarguably of greater merit than pulp trash about sexy elves and so on, but it's almost more of a curio or exercise in linguistic-historical know-how than a straight-up novel. Tolkien was a professor in the field and basically made it as a fun autistic side project, like a self-test to try and make something that feels like it could conceivably be a legitimate lost tale from ages ago.

>>12245028
Simarilion is pure aids. It was like I was reading an edgy fan-theogony-fiction, not a book but a bunch of notes combined together.

>>12245065
Read it again when you're a grown up.

>>12241553
the lay of baleriand in general enriches the shit out of middle earth. but the children of húrin, in general, adds so much emotional depth to this otherwise far-flung world of emotionless godpeople. plus glaurung is awesome

>>12245065
this one's never read the bible/eddas/kalevala

>>12242240
linguistics come first. the story is secondary. the worldbuilding was always his first priority

I just read the short version in The Silmarillion not even two hours ago

Should I read the full book still?

>>12245191

yes, it reads more like a proper tolkien cycle

I thought it was almost a bit too on the nose as far as archetypal stories go. I could practically predict what was going to happen blow for blow. That said, it was immensely enjoyable and Tolkein has such mastery over his influences that he's able to elevate it above a trite facsimile.

I especially liked the part where Finduilas reveals Turin's name and he cries out that by doing so, she has brought his doom down up on him. That speaks to a real ancient mindset and it's the sort of detail that separates Tolkien from all other fantasy writers.

>>12245178
Not a fan of this though. Especially if it's too dense. I read At the Mountain of Madness, which I think very heavily emphasis on world building. It felt like I was a reading some scientific journal, which wasn't scientific in any way. Maybe it's because I am new to books.

>>12245245
>I could practically predict what was going to happen blow for blow.
It's not too hard. It's sold as a tragedy, and the chapter names tell you what's going to happen.

>last page of chapter; Turin finally has a semblance of a decent life in one of the elf realms
>following chapter; The Fall of Elf Realm

Further proof that the best authors started with the Greeks

>>12245410
eh, that's probably cause lovecraft's prose was a bit too flowery. he was a big fan of overcompensating with big words. tolkien is no stranger to purple prose, but his writing is a lot easier to digest and certainly easier to 'imagine' as you read. Plus, with all the appendices and shit, there're plenty of explanations for his thought process

>>12245481
I think people generally underestimate Tolkien as a modernist writer. He is incredibly precise in his language too; always the right word in the right place.

>>12245028
That's a seriously long-winded way to say it's dry as fuck.

>>12245517
I don't think anon is quite right. Tolkien might have invented some of the stuff as an "autistic exercise" more than anything, but his eventual goal to write an epic fantasy novel was genuine; it wasn't some kind of silly side-project at that point. I don't think he's anywhere near as dry as people claim.

>>12245551
it's not a side project, but it was always a means to an end (the end in this case being building enough of a world for his languages to have their own poetic tradition, something most people cheat around when writing fantasy these days)

>>12241248
Genuinely great.

>>12243491
Very good list and order. I would suggest also that if you've somehow managed to not see the films, don't watch them until you're done reading because obviously the books are better and generally you will not be able to imagine the characters without referencing the actors.

Feanor did nothing wrong.

>>12241553
>>12245108

It's much more mature compared to the other stuff, yeah.

>>12244369
You have no idea what you're talking about and you should be banned from /lit/

>>12247769
He should be banned from /lit/ for shitting on modern fantasy?

>>12241445
Fact

>>12244369
Narn i Chin Hurin is based on the Finnish myth of Kullervo.

Reminder that reading Beowulf enhances the Tolkien experience

>>12241248
The Volsung saga

>>12247769
Explain

>>12247769

Nah, if you take issue with anything I said there then you're the one who hasn't a clue. Tolkien would definitely want nothing to do with the fantasy that came after him

>>12248107

Ah, fair enough. Still, my point is that Tolkien was a folklorist and philologist rather than a writer of fantasy as we understand that genre now

>>12242264
Not from a Númenorean.

>>12248516
That's what the genre used to be however, I'm not quite sure when it became this "just make some shit up that sounds cool" but it did. At best there's some vague parallelism between contemporary works and historical events, but there's no real depth to be found. It's depressing.

>>12242337
It’s closer to epics than it is Harry Potter. I don’t hate HP, but comparing Tolkien to Rowling is an insult to the man

>>12243605
Damn I love when I see this kind of shit on /lit/ people changing their minds on something they had dismissed. I hope you like them, anon

>>12248147
Reading anything enhances the Tolkien experience, because the more you read, the more you realise how singularly oustanding Tolkien's contribution to literature was.

>>12248560

Agreed, anon

>>12242240
Yes. Start today.

>>12241248
Can’t deecide if he is Sigmund or Siegfried

>>12250823
He's both, anon. And Kullervo too.

>>12250823
I've been led to believe he's actually Túrin

>>12250935
ive been to believe hes actually god.

>>12245028
This. The story itself is entirely secondary to the language. The "feel" of it is far more important than its actual content.

>>12245245
Tolkien really captures that true pre-modern feel and mindset. Virtually all others either put modern people in medieval clothes, or do some strange fucking caricature like in ASOIAF.

Good to see some love for Tolkien on /lit/

While trying to write a true epic in the tale of Turin (in which succeed IMO), he also wrote an allegory on the nature of man in the face of perpetual adversity in a way which draws parallels to the Book of Job, for me anyways.

Turin, a mortal man, is cursed by the most powerful being on the Earth. Facing tragedy, sin, and despair, he nevertheless seeks out what is right, and longs for peace from the wearies of this world. Turin is a character who is proud, honorable, kind, but wrathful, and the story goes on to turn it all against him, to turn his virtues into adversity, and his faults into tragedy. In the end Turin's faults, and the evil that hounds him, overtake him, but not before Turin strikes a valiant blow against his past, his oppressor, and his own shortcomings. It gives me a feeling that despite men being doomed to lives of hardship, it is through being brought low that men are then raised high.

>>12243260

Unironically.

>>12245504
>>12245481

I agree, Tolkien's prose in Turin is. . . Straight forward, yet it contains a lot of layers of meaning, and if you know your history and ancient literature plenty of allusions and forms borrowed from them.


One of the best Tolkien stories, enjoy it.

>>12243491
this, you can drop the history of middle earth series though.

>>12241248
mroe like tomtom trombone

>>12245028
That's interesting. Thanks for posting.

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