/lit/ - Literature

>>12282260
It's a meme. They aren't actually christians. Well a couple of them are due ironic idiocy attracting genuine idiots, but most are just being trendy.

>>12282260
Coping incels.

If you actually read and understand the Western canon, you cannot fail to see the truth of Christianity.

>>12282303
Pure larp right here

>>12282260
seems like they actually reed boks

>>12282308
You don't know anything about me, anon.

>>12282260
I know that feel, brother

>>12282260
They wouldn’t post Christian propaganda if you atheists didn’t cringepost so much

>>12282260
because Scripture is literature and its influence in the canon has been enormous

go to bed or no presents from santa

Because athiests are just that cringey in comparison

>>12282322
- I am not an atheist
- Yes they would
They literally shove the Bible into any discussion, mistake secularism and agnosticism for atheism (like you just did), and can't for the life of them explain why their arguments work in favor of Christianity, but not other religions like Judaism, Mormonism, Islam, etc.

>>12282336
>but not other religions like Judaism, Mormonism, Islam, etc.
Christcuck here.

I could explain this but I won't. Pearls before swine, all that.

>i was about to give a serious answer to such a stupid thread
>thought about it and realized it would make me stoop down to actually arguing
Here's a free bump for making me reply

Because theyre getting older
15 is babys first atheism
18 is when he love dawkins
19 is when he finds sam harris and thinks hes found his propher
22 is when he finishes uni and cant get a job
23 is when he realises god is the final redpill

>>12282336
>mistake secularism and agnosticism for atheism
Atheism literally means not a theist, you don’t believe in God. If you don’t believe in God, you’re an atheist.
>but not other religions like Judaism, Mormonism, Islam, etc.
Judaism built and predicted Christianity. Mormonism? Really? Flawed prophet.
Islam? Flawed prophet. For some reason, Muslims view Jesus as only a prophet, but what is their source for his words? It makes sense to say Jesus was a messiah, or a magician, or that he didn’t exist at all, but you can’t just say he acted a certain way contrary to what was recorded.

It’s easy to say muh infinite religions, but actually compare each to Christianity one by one and you have to admit it’s obvious Christianity is better. But atheists won’t admit this. I’ve actually had 2 anons on separate occasions tell me that if God guaranteed to them that either Christianity is true, or the worshipping of my shit is the true religion, they would seriously consider worshipping my shit. One said he would flip a coin, and the other said he would worship my shit because it takes less effort. Is this characteristic of atheists’ hatred for Christianity, their dishonesty, their mental retardation? All of the above?

>>12282260
Because lit has become unredeemable garbage. As soon as the board picked up, it became a magnet for morons.

>>12282377
You posted a strawman.
>their arguments work in favor of Christianity, but not other religions like Judaism, Mormonism, Islam, etc.
This has yet to be claimed by anyone except you. I'm not going to waste my time replying to someone who begins an argument with a misconception born out of ignorance in the subject.

>>12282384
these ages are 4 years too late

>>12282441
>christianity is better
Why? Also pretty irrelevant.

>>12282260
they read alot so i really dont mind them. it really helps if you accept that a nice portion of them are terribly misguided largely due to this siteand are merely LARPing for a few years tops before they return to normal misery.

The vatican is sending christcucks to africa to teach niggers how to read and use computers. increased numbers of groids posting on 4channel is literally solely the pope's fault.

>>12282260
/lit/ is a Christian board. The entirety of the Western canon are part of the domain of Christendom. Seething atheists are incapable of producing anything of beauty. Mohammedans ban literature. Insectoid religions aren't interested in literature. The Judaya weaponized literature against the white race, but are not interested in producing art. This leaves the Christian, equipped with the beauty of Christ's message, transmutates that message into different stories across time. This is how LITERATURE is produced.

>>12282260
>Why are there so many christcucks in /lit/? They derail every single thread and when you call them out they revert to name calling and mentioning fedoras. Why are they seething all the time?
>Why are they seething all the time?
>Why are they seething
>SEETHING

>>12282463
nah many people dont get repilled until its too late

>>12282441
>but actually compare each to Christianity one by one and you have to admit it’s obvious Christianity is better.
not true. i think all ideologies that involve constant praise of an all powerful authority are shit desu.

what are your grounds for this claim? in what manner is it "better"?
> I’ve actually had 2 anons on separate occasions tell me that if God guaranteed to them that either Christianity is true, or the worshipping of my shit is the true religion, they would seriously consider worshipping my shit.
i wouldn't worship your god if he came down, did a little dance, and gave everyone a palace to live in. there is still much needless evil and suffering he has to account for before he is worthy of my respect.

>>12282285
>>12282295
>>12282308

>>12282260
I am very thankful to the Christcucks of /lit/ for making me a Christian

>>12282336
Unironically read the Pensées for an explanation why Christianity is the perfect religion

>>12282384
>tfw 21 years old freshman

>>12282508
>i think all ideologies that involve constant praise of an all powerful authority are shit desu.
If there is a God, he wants to be worshipped, because we are his mirror. It’s a beautiful relationship that atheists belittle by thinking of God as a dictator who just loves the power. Your hatred and pride are dirtying your mirrors. But that’s ok. Through your suffering God understands what it’s like to be absent from His glory, thereby understanding His nature more thoroughly. Esse est percipi.
>there is still much needless evil and suffering he has to account for before he is worthy of my respect.
Do you think God made the universe specifically for you? Do you not think that He has truth in mind as well? Self-understanding? The exploration of all forms of existence? Meaning and struggle?
There were 6 possibilities, varying by 2 and 3 ways: There is only suffering, or only pleasure, or both; and God allows you to accept him or he does not. Only one scenario values truth and mercy, and we’re living in it.

>>12282508
Why is religion that requires praise of an absolutely perfect authority shit? God is not just all powerful, he is perfectly good. His perfection is completely beyond our comprehension, I do not see how there is anything wrong with an ideology which requires praise of such a perfect being as God

>>12282528
The power of socializing in a space where Christianity isn't overpowered by mockery and ridicule.

Why do white people always look at me like that when they pass you on the street? What is wrong with them?

>>12282546
And he seems to be ignoring the idea that worshipping this being of goodness is beneficial to us even in this life on Earth.

>>12282546
Then give me an adequate explanation for theodicy that doesn’t rely on circular logic.

>>12282552
way to only post half of the pasta, dummy. go back to /b/ or /pol/ or wherever you crawled from.

>>12282552
Why are non-whites in white countries?

>>12282560
This, worshipping genuinely make you a better person as you strive to become as much like God as is possible on Earth

>>12282565
They can’t. A whole book of the OT is devoted to the question, and god’s only response to Job is to not answer the question, and brag instead about beating up a sea serpent.

>>12282565
I’ve already attempted that here
>>12282545

>>12282570
I know a fuckload of WASPS that invalidate your theory.

>>12282577
>The imperfections of Christians are somehow a criticism of the religion itself

>>12282573
You managed to say nothing with a lot of extra words. I feel like Chomsky reading Zizek

>>12282571
If you really want to stab a big hole in Christianity, design a better universe. This is what God is hinting at in Job. Go ahead and make a universe that isn’t just centered around your hedonistic monkey perspective. Write up a detailed essay on your universe and explain the logistics behind it and why your universe is better than God’s. This shouldn’t be hard to do, since you’re so much smarter than God

>>12282579
>being Christian implies there’s a drive to better yourself inherent in the religion.
>real world examples show how often this isn’t the case.
Try arguing without fallacy for once.

>>12282586
Alright, you want the simple response? God exists as an unchanging entity and the universe has already been created. The illusion of time as from our perspective is just a component of this creation. Without creation, God isn’t the bearded thinker in the children’s stories. I argue that there never was a time when there wasn’t creation. It is through omnipotence, through God’s creation, that his omniscience is achieved. Again, it’s not as if he never had omniscience, because the creation as always existed. And I argue that God understands himself better by observing our perception of Him. He sees our worship of Him, and our joy, and he sees our suffering without Him. I believe all of this is the movement toward truth, simply. This is why evil exists, too. It’s all just the exploration of possibility, actuality, whatever you wanna call it.

>>12282594
Strawman.
>worshipping genuinely make you a better person as you strive to become as much like God as is possible on Earth
That’s what he said. Since not all “Christians” worship as much as they should, this in no way tarnished the religion itself. Nice try

>>12282589
Christian arguments for the problem of evil always seem to boil down to playground-tier “my dad is bigger than your dad” arguments. At least pagans can acknowledge that the universe and their gods are broken and imperfect. Christians want their god to be omnibenevolent, omnipotent and all-knowing, but the only way to do this is ignore the state of the world.

>>12282384
lol kill me

>>12282619
You seem to be avoiding the challenge. Why can’t you design a better universe than God’s? Let us hear your plans! Do you really think you can create a universe that can’t be ridiculed?

>>12282545
>If there is a God, he wants to be worshipped, because we are his mirror.
you should try actually saying what you mean instead of talking in ill-constructed metaphor.
>It’s a beautiful relationship that atheists belittle by thinking of God as a dictator who just loves the power.
well god has absolute power, and enforces the law as he wills with no accountability to anyone but himself. so in that manner, he is much like a dictator.
>Your hatred and pride are dirtying your mirrors.
again with the belabored metaphor. i hold no hatred for a being which cannot exist, but if the christian god were real, he would be the most contemptible being in existence.
>Esse est percipi.
berkely was a retard.
>>12282545
>Do you think God made the universe specifically for you?
i don't think god made the universe, but if he did, obviously not. the point i'm making is that unless god has a good reason to inflict people with bone cancer, i don't see why he deserves my respect.
>Do you not think that He has truth in mind as well? Self-understanding? The exploration of all forms of existence? Meaning and struggle
>There were 6 possibilities, varying by 2 and 3 ways: There is only suffering, or only pleasure, or both; and God allows you to accept him or he does not. Only one scenario values truth and mercy, and we’re living in it.
rambling nonsense.

>>12282546
>Why is religion that requires praise of an absolutely perfect authority shit?
for one thing, there is no scripture on earth which describes a perfect deity. they all tend to be petty, arbitrary creatures that act more like human power fantasies than any perfectly good and powerful agent.
>His perfection is completely beyond our comprehension
everything about god seems to be beyond our comprehension when you try to dig into the nuts and bolts of how this shit is supposed to work. i take that as a sign that the people of the ancient levant probably didn't have access to specific insight into the workings of the divine.
>>12282560
>And he seems to be ignoring the idea that worshipping this being of goodness is beneficial to us even in this life on Earth.
give me a law prescribed by christianity that both:
(a) benefits society
(b) don't also predate judaism

>>12282658
>benefits society
I was referring to individual benefit, spiritually.

>>12282260
/lit/ is a catholic board, you fucking pozzed our heretic

>>12282631
i think i would start by providing the perfect heavenly law to people that can't be easily confused with false religious doctrine. it would save many thousands of years of conflict, and pointless bickering on a subject i could have easily settled myself.

>>12282680
Why do you care if humans have conflict or not? Why do you care if some of them don’t know the truth?

>>12282671
What a weak deflection.

>>12282671
i don't believe in spirits, and i don't find much in the bible to be useful to me individually.

>>12282260
Catholicism explains the world with remarkable completeness without obscuring the reality of suffering. How could someone in today's stupid world not find that attractive?

>>12282691
Look up the definition of omnibenevolent. I find it hilarious how little most christians know about their own faith.

>>12282694
It’s not a deflection, it’s what I meant originally.
>And he seems to be ignoring the idea that worshipping this being of goodness is beneficial to us even in this life on Earth.
What made you think I was talking about social laws? I was obviously talking about the relationship between a person and God through worship.

>>12282700
You may want to read the fucking thread before posting, chump.

>>12282691
if i were all loving, i would presumably love all humans, and would want them to come to no harm. thus, preventing conflict and ignorance among those i love seems a reasonable aim.

>>12282705
Maybe because the majority of laws in the bible are social laws? Have you read the Pentateuch?

>>12282370
Lol the burden of proof is on the one making the positive claim

>>12282384
25 is when he realizes that a theistic God is a childish simplification of something more complex and becomes a pandeist

>>12282715
keep reading. i don't have to prove his ignorance correct.

>>12282705
surely a society filled with well tended souls is a good society. god's laws lead to better souls. ergo, god's laws are good for society.
so with your childish dodge circumvented, do you want to try to answer my question?

>>12282702
Where does the word “omnibenevolent” appear in the Bible? Furthermore, if omniscience, omnipotence, and infinite benevolence can not all possibly co-exist, then surely God could be perfectly omnipotent, perfectly omniscient, and relatively perfectly benevolent? In other words, though limited by the necessity to create forms of existence, including evil, suffering, etc God is the most benevolent He could possibly be.

>>12282715
Why should he spoonfeed you? You've haven't done any reading on the subject.

>>12282727
On the matter of improving our souls, I simply direct you to Jesus’ teachings, which are included in Judaism :)

>>12282738
aren’t*

>>12282697
But you've never even read the Bible

>>12282729
>In other words, though limited by the necessity to create forms of existence, including evil, suffering, etc God is the most benevolent He could possibly be.
what necessity is there for evil and suffering? i can at least imagine a world without some forms of suffering, if not a world completley free of it. what puts this beyond god's omnipotent power?

>>12282722
With panderist, always stay on alert.

>>12282738
care to give a specific example?
>>12282743
i have, but if it makes you feel better think i haven't, go ahead.

>>12282744
God didn’t evolve from monkeys, so he doesn’t view everything as suffering versus pleasure. He has no reason to remove suffering. But why have it? Because it is a necessary part of existence. It’s the exploration of truth, the display of omnipotence, the actualization of God. Without suffering, there is no God. God is concerned with Truth, not your hedonistic ideals.

>>12282744
>b-but what about bone cancer!!!1!

>>12282754
Matthew 6:24 comes to mind.

>>12282594
>>being Christian implies there’s a drive to better yourself inherent in the religion.
"Laughs in Calvinist"
Grace is all sufficient. Ever hear of total depravity? All human works to better yourself fail with intervention from God. This is basic stuff. If you are using Christianity as a form of self improvement you're missing the entire point. You can really tell when someone learns everything they know about Christianity from Jordan peterson

>>12282754
it doesn't make me feel better. i just think you should stop lying about things on the internet.

>>12282473
>The entirety of the Western canon are part of the domain of Christendom.
Explain how classical Greco-Roman authors are "part of the domain of Christendom"

>>12282762
>Because it is a necessary part of existence.
that's precisely the issue at hand. why is it necessary?
>It’s the exploration of truth, the display of omnipotence, the actualization of God.
what do any of these have to do with suffering?
>Without suffering, there is no God.
why? you have to actually justify assertions.
>God is concerned with Truth, not your hedonistic ideals.
i don't see it as hedonistic to say that no suffering is superior to some suffering.

>>12282730
I fucking read the Bible in the original Greek fucktard

>>12282785
And what does that have to do with arguments against Islam or Mormonism?

>>12282336
Christians try to base their opinions and ideas in scripture. You see them as trying to shove the bible into discussions where it doesn't belong, but when a Christian contributes to a discussion God is going to be an important part of why they hold their position.

>>12282767
*fart noises*
>>12282768
>Matthew 6:24
rejection of material wealth and asceticism predates judaism.

>>12282774
hey everybody please do not listen to this guy Calvinism is evil heresy

Western civilization IS Christendom. Like it or not, Christianity is the basis of the West as a unified entity. People who are interested in Western literature inevitably must encounter Christian thought and art because the greatest and most influential works of art are mostly Christian. Even self-proclaimed anti-Christs like Nietzsche and anti-Christian thinkers and writers cannot properly be understood and appreciated without an understanding of and appreciation for Christianity.

>>12282803
I'm not the guy you're replying to but the significance of Christian morality doesn't rely upon how unique its commandments are (although some are actually really shocking within their historical Jewish context). The Book of Proverbs makes it clear that the truth of wisdom is observable and inherent in the world before the revelation of Christ.

Jesus isn't a generic guru or just another prophet giving obvious advice. Its his life and mission that make Christianity what it is.

>>12282260
They don't though. They have dedicated Bible threads where they discuss they're stuff and maybe argue some atheist writings.

>>12282783
Why is darkness necessary? Why is anything necessary?

>>12282819
When you run out of arguments

>>12282783
>i don't see it as hedonistic to say that no suffering is superior to some suffering.
This is subjective, though. And that subjectivity is based on your aversion to suffering, and your love of pleasure. Maybe there’s a guy whose perfect world allows him to torture people. Or maybe he’s a masochist and wants to suffer. Or maybe he wants a world of conflict, with suffering and joy, similar to this one. Why are you more correct than him?

>>12282831
i wan't trying to say jesus' teachings weren't unique, and are therefore wrong. the point i was making was that worshiping the christian god can't really be said to make you a better person when all of these ideas already existed before anyone even had a conception of "yahwey".

>>12282260
yeh m8 because this secular drag we're on has been such a gas.

>>12282857
>some people can be good without pursuing God, so pursuing God doesn't make a person better
this doesn't follow

>>12282857
Also, you should read Nietzsche if you think that the Western morality was basically unchanged by Christian ideas. Christianity, in a lot of ways, made Europe a more egalitarian and compassionate place.

>>12282851
>And that subjectivity is based on your aversion to suffering, and your love of pleasure.
i think my love of pleasure is superfluous to my aversion to suffering, but that's neither here nor there.
>Maybe there’s a guy whose perfect world allows him to torture people.
perhaps this world is perfect to the torturer, but it would certainly not be perfect for those who are tortured.
>Or maybe he’s a masochist and wants to suffer.
if displeasure is accepted willingly, i don't see how you could call it suffering. it seems to me that to suffer is to experience something one would prefer not to experience.
>Or maybe he wants a world of conflict, with suffering and joy, similar to this one.
again, this world would not be perfect to those suffering.

>>12282260
because they're edgy contrarians

>>12282886
>again, this world would not be perfect to those suffering.
But the guy wants to suffer, and he wants to feel joy. He wants to have meaning and adventure, but he knows there is no reason to struggle and fight and have purpose if there is no chance of suffering. He wants to lose occasionally, or starve, and lose loved ones. He wants motivation to ACT, something that drives him. Otherwise, why is he existing? He doesn’t just want others to suffer, he wants everyone to be capable of suffering and joy.

It seems you accepted that your position is in fact, subjective, and therefore you have no good reason to criticize God and say you don’t respect Him.

>>12282821
>Western civilization IS Christendom
Nope

>>12282865
again, that's not what i'm saying. the point is not that no one can become better through religion, the point is that your specific theology has no claim to being the origin of morality.
>>12282870
i never said that christianity had no effect on western morality.

>>12282908
>the origin of morality
>i never said that christianity had no effect
Holy shit you are fucking incapable of following an argument. I'm done with this conversation.

>>12282908
>has no claim to being the origin of morality.
No one ever claimed this ITT.

Judaism is better than Christianity.
If you unironicaly believe some random retard is the son of G-d then you are a brainlet. If you actually believe G-d can "change his mind" on things written in the Old Testament (such as circumsicion) you are a double brainlet.

>>12282937
In fact, pretty much every Messianic prophecy that Yeshu did not fulfill the Christcucks simply moved to his "second coming". And when the actual Moshiach comes I am sure that the Christcucks will try to claim he is Yeshu until he strikes them down.

>>12282898
>But the guy wants to suffer
again, this seems like a contradiction in terms. how does it makes sense to speak of "suffering" as desired?
>He wants to have meaning and adventure, but he knows there is no reason to struggle and fight and have purpose if there is no chance of suffering.
i also question why anyone would ever have any desire to "struggle and fight" if such things are not strictly necessary to defend one's life or liberty. in a world without suffering, there is no need to defend one's life or liberty because they are never threatened.
>He wants to lose occasionally, or starve, and lose loved ones.
why? these all seem like things any rational agent would not choose to inflict on oneself.
>He wants motivation to ACT, something that drives him.
can you not pick up a fucking hobby without the threat of being struck dead by a mail truck on the way to the hobby store?
>Otherwise, why is he existing?
this is an open ended question whether suffering exists or not, but it really seems like your making out as if the purpose of existence is to suffer.
>He doesn’t just want others to suffer, he wants everyone to be capable of suffering and joy.
if he wants people to be capable of suffering, he wants people to suffer.
>It seems you accepted that your position is in fact, subjective, and therefore you have no good reason to criticize God and say you don’t respect Him.
no, i have plenty of good reasons, like those that i have outlined. he generally seems like either a prick, or an ineffectual bureaucrat. either way, not worthy of respect, and certainly not worthy of worship.

>>12282945
>again, this seems like a contradiction in terms. how does it makes sense to speak of "suffering" as desired?
The desire is before the action. He’s dreaming of a world. He won’t actually derive pleasure when he’s suffering in that world. But he wants suffering to EXIST.
>i also question why anyone would ever have any desire to "struggle and fight" if such things are not strictly necessary to defend one's life or liberty. in a world without suffering, there is no need to defend one's life or liberty because they are never threatened.
This paragraph seems to stem from some misinterpretation of what I’m saying. The guy wants suffering to exist.
>why? these all seem like things any rational agent would not choose to inflict on oneself.
And yet rational agents dream of such a world. Why, when people create art, do they include suffering? Really makes you think, doesn’t it?
>can you not pick up a fucking hobby without the threat of being struck dead by a mail truck on the way to the hobby store?
>he wants to live by surrogate activities alone
Yeah, that doesn’t sound boring or meaningless or depressing at all.
>but it really seems like your making out as if the purpose of existence is to suffer.
No, but purpose requires that both suffering and happiness exist.
>if he wants people to be capable of suffering, he wants people to suffer.
Yes? I didn’t say that he didn’t.

You still haven’t outlined your dream world

>>12282781
Read Dante and Kierkegaard

>>12282781
>Greco
read Weil :^)

>>12282944
A man was raised from the dead.

>>12282260
I'm an actual Christian. Those annoying ones are just atheists trying to make people like me look bad.

>educated people choose an educated position on divine matters
wow OP, that is truly astonishing

yeah, I’m a Christian, you got a problem with that? I used to be a sinner like you but 2 years ago I found GOD. In my teens I would laugh at creationists; I would always tell my grandma that I didn’t want to go to mass; I was agnostic but not like r/Atheism. But when I GREW UP and became a man, I realised I needed to put childish things away (1 Corinthians 13:11). Why is that? Because I realized that we need Christianity to SAVE THE WEST. After I voted Trump in the 2016 election I decided to go to church again. I knew that I would find a QT pure Christian GF who I could lose my virginity to (I haven’t lost it yet because I’m saving myself for marriage, like God intended). I haven’t found her yet, but like Job I will pray and have faith in God. Then I saw Jordan Peterson talking about Christianity and I was hooked! (I don’t like him anymore though, he’s a fake Christian). I watched all his videos on the bible and realised how God reveals himself in many ways. I was on /pol/ (came from r/The_Donald during the election but I hate redditors now) Christian General and I saw /lit/ chart which had The Bible and I KNEW I found my people. Every day I see THE WEST falling because we gave up our FAITH. Well, the new Christian intellectuals are coming; We are the sons of the Crusaders and we shall not recoil before the sons of Voltaire! (Candide was shit, so is Nietzsche (haven’t read either of them)). /lit/ introduced me to Kierkegaard and I became a KNIGHT OF FAITH, so now I know that I just gotta believe and that’s TRUE bravery. I read DANTE and DOSTOEVSKY and I saw the beauty of God and true art. I’m a proud Catholic (Protestants are heretics) but I hate Pope Francis, he’s a heretic and isn’t MY Pope. /lit/ is a Christian board, and I know that if I just keep recommending the Bible, telling people to go to church, and making threads about how great God is, I will finally be able to sincerely believe in God and distract myself from the gnawing feeling that I’m a fraud. Faith ain’t easy.

>>12283016
I've been waiting so long for this to pop up again, thank you anon

>>12282260
unironically not larping, 4chan converted me, /lit/ in particular. God bless you all guys, Merry Christmas.

>>12283123
How recently? Any details?

>>12283123
>>12283130
see>>12283016

>>12283123
I'm glad for your spiritual awakening, anon. Keep fighting the good fight. Merry Christmas.

>>12282535
>dude, if we don't believe in our all-loving god he'll send us to hell forever lol...
>i think we better believe in him, heh

Truly a profound theology. Buddhism? Nah. Hinduism? Nah. Self-realization? Sounds satanic. I'll just have what the Christians are having. Worship the all-loving God, or else be sent to Hell for eternity. Profound beyond words.

>>12283147

>>12282546
Perfect, yet "jealous" as well? Oh, the Christians can rationalize anything, can't they? All they know how to do is read, believe in and memorize their scriptures. To actually confront the inconsistencies of their "infallible" theology is a capacity they haven't been instructed in.

>>12283147
>If I put this gun to my head and pull the trigger I'll die!
>Stupid gun! Why would you do this??

>>12283147
The ignorance of Penseés will never end.