/lit/ - Literature

>>12461291
Reminder that Nietzsche was unironically racist and all his beliefs on christianity stem from the fact that he thought brown people infiltrated their aryan masters from India. He believed jews were descendant of the dravidians, which is obviously wrong.
Spengler btfo Nietzsche properly.
Btw I'm racist and atheist

>>12461291
These tidbits describe protestantism, not Christianity.
His opinions would have been vastly different had he not grown up in saxony area but instead say Munich and in turn Catholic.

Hitler was a Roman Catholic, he had a greater ambition to power than Nietzsche could possibly envision.

>Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. If you had known me, you would have known my Father also. From now on you do know him and have seen him.”
(John 14:6-7)

>For whoever would save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for my sake and the gospel's will save it. For what does it profit a man to gain the whole world and forfeit his soul? For what can a man give in return for his soul? For whoever is ashamed of me and of my words in this adulterous and sinful generation, of him will the Son of Man also be ashamed when he comes in the glory of his Father with the holy angels.
(Mark 8:35-38)

>>12461291
>Goethe, the closest thing to an ubermench we have ever had
>was a Christian
really makes you think

>>12461303
>white men in the past were racist
breaking news here, buddy

>>12461291
BASED

>>12461291
I'm a Nietzsche fag and a lot of this seems like not actually Nietzsche, or an absolute dogshit translation

>>12461347
The things that are clearly from Nietzsche in that list is the idea that Christianity stops people from pursuing their will to power and instead make a virtue of their miserable condition; he clearly did believe this.

>>12461347
Describing Christian teachings as "dangerous" seems pretty anti-Nietzsche to me lel. That would be an argument for Chrstianity if anything. Well I guess its dangerous in the sense that it cucks you from reaching ubermench potential

Why the fuck would anyone appreciate Nietzsche when there's Stirner, is /lit/ filled with 16 years old faggots now or something?

>>12461304
>be Hitler
>spend a record 1,178 straight days in the confession booth
>Catholic church eventually runs out of priests

>>12461370
>Hitler's Boyhood
>As a young boy he idolized the priests and for two years seriously considered becoming a priest himself. He especially admired the Abbot in charge, who ruled his black-robed monks with supreme authority. At home Hitler sometimes played priest and even included long sermons.

The Roman Empire had raised science, prosperity, and power to
their ancient peaks. The decay of the Empire in the West, the growth
of poverty and the spread of violence, necessitated some new ideal and
hope to give men consolation in their suffering and courage in their
toil: an age of power gave way to an age of faith. Not till wealth and
pride should return in the Renaissance would reason reject faith,
and abandon heaven for utopia. But if, thereafter, reason should fail,
and science should find no answers, but should multiply knowledge
and power without improving conscience or purpose; if all utopias
should brutally collapse in the changeless abuse of the weak by the
strong: then men would understand why once their ancestors, in the
barbarism of those early Christian centuries, turned from science,
knowledge, power, and pride, and took refuge for a thousand years in
humble faith, hope, and charity.

>>12461291
>>Christianity promotes weakness. "Thou shalt be humble, caste and poor"

those are virtues and you have to be strong as fuck to build them

>>12461291

>Christianity is the religion of the vermin of this world.

Well reasoned. I never thought of it this way before. I like your sense of logic. Great post.

>>12461473
this desu
it takes way more willpower to be humble, caste and poor than to be an egotistical narcissist not giving a fuck

>>12461303
is this true

>>12461291
ok?

>>12461291
If you have to call yourself wise, you are not wise.

>>12461532
Basically this. Humans are egotistical narcissists by default. Like animals just reacting to everything. It takes strength and discipline to strive for something greater than "an eye for an eye."

>>12461473
>>12461532
I think Mann said it best in his essay on Nietzsche when he said that N's fundamentally flawed presupposition was that Life is somehow endangered by Spirit, and that this assumption could only come from a genius like N that was constantly living in his thoughts (see also his fetishism for the Strong etc.), whereas in reality when u actually look into the world it's more reasonable to say that it is the other way round and that the Will is already triumphing over Morality for most people

>>12461323
Good job christfag you can quote shitty quotes (that have been translated 2-3 times).

>>12461330
The ubermensch is subjective. Honestly it's up to the individual to achieve their own perception of perfection.

>>12461330
Goethe wasn't rly a christian tho; more of a pseudo-spinozist epicurian; his opinion on christianity changed a lot during his life, from proto-nietzschean hate to admiring its cultural achievements but he was never devout or even a believer

>>12461532
only when consciously and honestly humble
many christian may very well show that behaviour effortlessly having grew up with these values, but their behavior may be sustained by the idea of heaven, being their present humbleness a mean to be saved and find happiness, given by god, in this life or the next

>>12461323
I'm not Christian but I unironically question of these quotes and speculate whether they could come true. Can anyone discuss this with me? The Son of Man seemingly refers to someone other than Jesus, though he also used it to refer to himself as well. And here he talks about seemingly about the Day of Judgment, wherein a Savior sent by God will come down and judge everyone and purge evil from the planet. This also seems to correspond with the prophecies the Kalki-avatar in Hinduism, who matches the prophecies of a "rider on a white horse" from Revelations, and of this present age as being the Kali Yuga - the darkest era, filled with the most evil.

When do you guys imagine said Day of Judgement will happen? Our world is only growing worse each year, be it in population growth, economic inequality, pervasiveness of war, and plenty else. When will all of this stuff finally unfold?

Also if I get punished and judged simply for not being Christian, I'll be very sad lol.

Scheler btfo's Nietzsche's view of Christianity. Although he admits Christianity can lead to slave morality (ressentiment) , he proves that it wasn't created by and the dominant mindset is not ressentiment.

>>12461649
Judgment Day has already occurred, my friend. It is a timeless, eternal moment, that manifests itself in our linear phenomenological history. We have already been judged, and we must be aware of that through a spiritual movement of revelation through the Word.

>>12461291
Quote passages next time if you want a more interesting discussion to take place.

"The moment you close your eyes, you'll open them to be turning the other cheek... heh, you will be turning the other "cheeks" alright..." - Charls Carroll

>>12461363
Stirner writes like a low IQ 16 year old. Nietzsche is at least on par with /lit/ intelligence even if I disagree with him considerably.

>>12462009
"I mean this world, this country might be Sodom right now, but that doesn't mean I have to live in it in my head. I don't live in Sodom. And I don't live in Gomorrah. Ahh- No. Not in my own head. No. I don't live there. No. I'd rather be dead than live there."

>>12461291
Atheists don't want to believe in God because life is easier that way.

>>12462463
>Christians want to believe in Sky Daddy because life is easier to sleep tight that way
FTFY

Did he actually say any of this?

>>12462693
Yes. OP's post is based entirely on facts.

>>12462682
It's actually harder to believe in Sky Daddy.
You can't have anal sex, hurt friends and family, lie to people, steal from people, etc., all for a personal gain.

>>12462978
Except you can and many Christians do that
And all you have to do is 'repent' to have God forgive you.

>>12461291
>Christianity is a religion of content slaves. It kills any ambition to power.
It does not kill ambition generally. The desire to rule over others is not a good thing, those really fit to rule usually don't even want to.

>Christianity has a falacious conception of both Modern and Ancient story.
What?

>Christianity is the religion of civilization, and that's a bad thing, being just like pollution, car accidents, global warming and cancer.
Nobody is stopping you from moving to some underdeveloped country and living in a mud hut, at least without internet this will become a better board.

>Christianity is the religion of the vermin of this world.
Nice argument bro, convinced me.

>Christianity promotes weakness. "Thou shalt be humble, caste and poor"
Never does it tell you to be poor.
It tells you to be bold.
It tells you to be righteous.

>Christianity fills your head with dangerous lies about afterlife, promoting short-sightedness, degeneration and hedonism.
Good thing atheism is coming, hedonism will be fixed shortly :)

>Christ's "teachings" are used to justify whatever the fuck you want
Yeah, if you're not christian maybe.

>>12461339

leave this board you freaking idiot! we are christians here

>>12461304
>hitler was roman catholic
>literally worked to cull europe of roman catholic priests


B-BUT IT SAID GOTT MIT UNS ON THE BELTS!

>>12463122
>Yeah, if you're not christian maybe.

>>12463290
>only yours "is right"
please post shitty fedora memes above a 4th grade english level

>>12461291
fixed the cover

>>12463290
>there are like infinite numbers
>1+1 only equals 2

>>12463384
Nice argument

>>12461291
learn to write better or get off my board, brainlet

>>12463442
non-Christcucks = owned

>>12463456
Not an Argument

>>12461532
You're talking about asceticism, which N was fully in favor of.

His criticism was towards poor people who use slave morality -- which is just morality that makes values of what they already conveniently are -- against the exceptional.

His writings about Buddhism illuminate his differentiation between asceticism and mere slave morality. And he wrote about asceticism extensively otherwise.

>>12463056
Then why shouldn't everyone believe in God when it is easier to sleep if you know that Sky Daddy exists? Why shouldn't everyone's sleep be easy?

>>12462463
There's atheists who refuse God for that reason, and also Christians who embrace God for that reason. There's going to be shitty people despite what the dominant beliefs are. Dominance of any kind necessitates the existence of leeches.

>>12463419
B A S E D

>>12461291
>Jainists being coherent

Okay mr 2000 iq

>>12461330
>the closest thing to an ubermench we have ever had
That's Beethoven. Goethe was a masonic ass kisser next to him.
>Prince, what you are, you are through chance and birth; what I am, I am through my own labor. There are many princes and there will continue to be thousands more, but there is only one Beethoven.

>>12461304
Fuck off, bitch tits.

>>12461291

>>12461303
>thought brown people infiltrated their aryan masters from India.
This is true though. Caste system was implemented too late. Though there’s still a clear difference between the top and the bottom

>>12461304
>first heresy best heresy

>>12463168

>>12461291
>Christianity fills your head with dangerous lies about afterlife, promoting short-sightedness, degeneration and hedonism.
I can tell from personal experience that this is true.
>>12461532
pic related
>>12461558
You can strive for strength, discipline and rational kindness if these things are important to you, without religion.

Christianity is more of a lifestyle and don't think you escaped it just because you are an atheist. A lot of these things carried over

I have a question for Christians; if a person rejects Christianity and the idea of God completely, but decides to be kind to others in life, is he not at heart a better person than someone who acts in a kind way either out of fear of punishment, expectation of a reward, or because he's following orders? In other words, wouldn't you see what a person really was if they were stripped of all religions and moral codes coming from outside, wouldn't that be the supreme test?

>>12465227
>than someone who acts in a kind way either out of fear of punishment, expectation of a reward, or because he's following orders?
This is literally impossible, humans always act on self-interest,even if they are not aware of it.

>>12465227
Name one atheist that isn't a degenerate

>>12465227
Do you actually know an atheist that dosen't indulge on earthly pleasures and isn't a materialist ?

>>12465420
the question was addressed to Christians, your answer is atheistic, and so am I, so you're barking up the wrong tree
>>12465429
define degenerate
>>12465468
I'm not sure what is wrong with enjoying things if you're not hurting anyone

>>12465496
>I'm not sure what is wrong with enjoying things if you're not hurting anyone
And you say atheists can be moral and virtuous.

>>12465496
>degenerate
You know what I mean by degenerate.

>>12465545
?
>>12465558
?

>>12465496
Why is it wrong to hurt someone?

>>12465561
?

>>12462978
One can decide to those things without believing in sky daddy, It wold actually be a testament to your character if you denied degeneracy simply because you believe in living a pure life and not some jew in the sky. It would mean that You are in control of your life.

>>12463465
Amazing argument man, where did you learn that??

>>12465601
>One can decide to those things without believing in sky daddy
Prove it

>>12465564
Should this question even arise for a person with sympathy and imagination? Did Christianity copyright the golden rule?
>>12465595
I don't know what that guy's definition of degeneracy is, and I have no clue how enjoying things on this earth makes a person immoral. I have no idea what those posts are.

>>12465642
Define morality

>>12465642
>Should this question even arise for a person with sympathy and imagination?
Not an argument
Answer the question

>>12461600
>pseudo-spinozist epicurian
you are a massive faggot if you really believe this

>>12465642
>sympathy and imagination
You seem to take those things for granted

>>12465420
>>12465429
>>12465468
Let's say on paper such a person exists then would he better than any Christian person who has to believe in god in order to escape from degeneracy?

>>12465700
Prove me wrong then.

>>12465227
In Hinduism if a person doesn't believe in god but is all of that he would be considered a "Nastik" which according to Bhagwad Gita are sometimes even better than a religious person.

>>12461291
>Calling someone else illiterate
>Taking the word of one intellectually dishonest pseudo-philosopher so you don't have to come to your own understanding

>>12461291

>>12465622
>Proving a negative
Fuck off Newfag

>>12465662
Morality is a system of thought that questions an action before and after it has taken place.
>>12465682
Because you're inflicting pain on another like yourself.
>>12465701
God doesn't always give them out? So are the dumb psychopaths also being tested by God?

>>12465840
>Because you're inflicting pain on another like yourself.
you're begging the question.
Why is it wrong to inflict pain on others?

>>12465076
Catholicism is more than just a lifestyle to the Latin races. It IS life to them. Just like how paganism was life to the Greeks, and wasn't referred to as paganism until the Catholics rampaged and desecrated their culture the moment it became weakened internally.

>>12465840
>Because you're inflicting pain on another like yourself.
Oh yeah,if someone tries to attack me I shouldn't inflict pain on him because he's just like me,thanks anon

>>12465840
>Because you're inflicting pain on another like yourself.

>>12465227
This is a great question, and though I'm not Christian myself, I wish everyone would think like this. The world would objectively be far better if people learnt to be good for good's sake; not out of fearing either punishment or nothingness after death, or believing they'll be rewarded by doing so. The individuals who do this - who believe immensely morally for no cause but its own - are the most Divine people in the world, by default. Personally I pursue spirituality without being connected to any religion, and the mode you've mentioned is what I myself hold to and try to follow.

>>12465227
no, because kindness is not the end goal of christianity

it's like that saying, "Jesus was a socialist." He didn't tell the rich to give their possessions and money to the poor so that the poor could have more shit, he told the rich to give away their wealth so that their heart would change into a giving heart. Christ cares about what's going on inside of you more than caring about what you do. Most importantly, he cares about you acknowledging that you cannot be good without him.

> 36 “Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?”

>37 Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’[a] 38 This is the first and greatest commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’[b] 40 All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”

loving your neighbor as yourself comes second to humbling yourself before God. It's not possible to simply just be kind, reject God and Christ, and remain humble. Believing that you have the power to do that is already a breaking of the greatest commandment, and a fundamental misunderstanding of the human condition which Christ seeks to cure.

>>12465227
Doing good out of fear of punishment and expectation of a reward is already looked down upon in the Church, we cannot be certain of the fate that awaits us, God will judge us accordingly.

>>12461291
I know he was probably being at least somewhat ironic with that title but still, it's very incorrect. He really wasn't very wise at all. He was extremely smart but not wise.

>>12465998
>Believing that you have the power to do that is already a breaking of the greatest commandment, and a fundamental misunderstanding of the human condition which Christ seeks to cure.
So jesus basically compels you to believe in him otherwise you can't be a good person no matter what?

>>12465998
Very well said. People need to study and ruminate on the wisdom books, especially Job and Ecclesiastes.

>>12466084
>compels you to believe in him otherwise you can't be a good person no matter what?
you can't be a good person no matter what, period. With or without Jesus. Your definition of "good" is flawed in our common use of good> great. Good means perfection. This is what God is; God is good. You fall short of the glory of God, as do all people.

If I stop believing in God this is not a perspective on humanity I will ever lose. Everyone has weaknesses. Everyone has pride. Everyone has a capacity for evil. Some people are nicer than others, but they're still only human.

>>12465938
If you're a human in a purely materialistic universe, there are more arguments to support the claim that suffering is bad rather than that it doesn't matter. We as humans can allow ourselves to approach it from that perspective, because that's the closest road post. We can keep going with this until you tell me I have no underlying philosophical reason to trust our biological instinct to avoid pain and to feel empathy while you have your God which is like the smallest atom underlying everything and cannot be divided anymore, which, in my opinion, just betrays simplicity of thinking and the human desire for there to be an underlying meaning. Why does the structure of life itself breakdown for you without God?
>>12465963
This is stupid, do you want an addendum: "unless it's self defense?" When did I say don't hurt anyone under any circumstances? This conversation is more of a peek into the psychology of a Christian who wants an unshakable system of morality chiseled into stone handed to him, whereas life is circumstantial.

>>12466183
It's even funnier because the anon of your bottom response doesn't seem to realize that Jesus did teach exactly that - "turn thy cheek" or "be nonviolent even as someone physically assaults you".

>>12466183
>there are more arguments to support the claim that suffering is bad rather than that it doesn't matter.
Tell me about them

>>12466183
Why should I care about things that don't affect me?

>>12463554
Maybe there's a reason why you would like to ponder things at night that are bothering you instead of going "whatever, Yahweh will sort it out lmao"

>>12461291
It's funny How he says the exact polar opposite of truth each and every time he talks about Christianity.

>>12464954
Yes but christianity wasn't invented by dravidians.
>>12461541
Yes.
All non racist intetpretations of Nietzsche's work are wrong.

>>12462398
Snake eyes!

>>12461291
>2019
>taking Neechy seriously
I just hope you were born after 200

>>12467127
I was Born in 2000

>>12461291
>Christianity is a religion of content slaves. It kills any ambition to power.
Yes and no. I'm not too interested in political power or the like, but shaping the future of humanity definitely interests me.
Elven supremacism needs more advocates, however. I don't want a planet-wide Brazil/USA.
>Christianity has a fallacious conception of both Modern and Ancient story.
Christians are just people. Some have it better, some have it worse. It's not like atheism/neopaganism makes it more cohesive. However, I would be interested in Zoroastrian and Hindu view on Ancient Europe.
Modern, however, can be quite clearly defined as the tipping point when Jews and their sort took power over Christians in Europe.
>Christianity is the religion of civilization
This is correct. Though your view on civilization is bogus. There would be civilization without any of those things.
>Christianity is the religion of the vermin of this world.
This is just an insult. I've encountered personal insults beyond language in my meditations and anger-induced hazes - yours is quite lacking. So, back it up.
>Christianity promotes weakness. "Thou shalt be humble, caste and poor"
It is Saturday, sabbath. Jews gather in the Synagogue. The ceremony starts with the Rabbi telling that 'he is a nobody and shouldn't be asking this and that from G-d (God)...', and continues with a rich merchant starting his plea the same way 'I am a nobody and I have no right to ask for any of these: ...' and then lastly a poor man starts his prayer the same way; the rabbi says to the merchant; Who does this man think he is, praying like we do?

>Christianity fills your head with dangerous lies about afterlife, promoting short-sightedness, degeneration and hedonism
>Christ's "teachings" are used to justify whatever the fuck you want
Everything is permitted, not everything is helpful. Sin is slavery and truth shall set you free.

>At least Sikh and Jainists are fucking coherent with their ideas.
I wonder. Is it truly without cohesion or do you simply lack understanding, intentionally as per usual, or did Christianity lose much of itself during historical chaos - the loss of Pentarchy, the institution of celibacy in 13th century etc.

>>12465985
reddit the post

>>12464943

>>12465429
Christians are the degenerates today. Degeneracy is defined as whatever is a decadent form in relation to the dominant value system of the age, which is to say the value system of the most dominant individuals in the power hierarchy of the age. The dominant value system of our age is NOT Christian — it's not even Abrahamic.

>>12466310
Maybe make a point of your own instead of trying to trap me? If you don't want to agree on the premise that suffering is undesirable for humans, even for yourself, then you're really setting yourself apart from the rest of humanity.
>>12466349
If you're a psychopath with 89 IQ who's out to hurt people in violent ways, I'm not sure I can help you. For a person like that I would suggest Christianity.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DXOW2V7fI5w

thoughts?

Yawn

>wastes his life praising strength, power, great men and denegrating society instead of going outside and actually doing something requiring exertion, entailing failure, risking life

Could it be that N was the one filled with resentment this whole time?

>>12461649
end time prophecy is a real thing that the bible deals with, but since its such a heavy subject, it's told through visions and parables.
>Daniel 12:4 But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.

If you really want to know whay the Bible thinks about the end time, read the Gospels of course, but make sure you read the books of Daniel and Revelation. These books predict and are confirmed to have predicted very key events in the history of the world that we live in today, so I do urge you to dive into them as much as you please. However without reading these books, one can never really or truly understand why the Bible is purposely unclear about the state of the world

>>12461330
Goethe absolutely wasnt a christian and got shit for it, cant believe it took four (you)s for me to say it, shame on il/lit/erates

>>12461330
>ubermench
You don't understand what Nietzsche means when he says 'ubermensch.'

>>12461355
But isn't "making virtue of their vile condition" itself a manifestation of will to power?

>>12469454
Prove it

>>12468167
>you don't want to agree on the premise that suffering is undesirable for humans, even for yourself, then you're really setting yourself apart from the rest of humanity.
I never said that I desire suffering for myself, I'm asking what makes causing suffering on others wrong.
Is/ought gap my friend

>>12468167
>If you're a psychopath with 89 IQ who's out to hurt people in violent ways, I'm not sure I can help you.
Stop moving goalpost, answer the question. And I didn't say that I would like to actively inflict pain on others,my question is why should I care about things that don't affect me. You failed to provide a reason

>>12461304
>>12461370
>>12461452
based
the swastika comes from Lambach benedictine monastery where he used to be part of the choir when he was a little boy

>>12470692
is this your post: >>12465682 ? If so, what do you mean it's not an argument? Can you expand on why its not an argument?
>>12470699
Why should there be a reason for you to care about things that don't affect you? What things?

>>12466019
This.
No good Christian should "fear punishment". If they want to do something but are only just stopped by the 'hell problem' then they're not following Christ.

>>12465227
>if a person rejects Christianity and the idea of God completely, but decides to be kind to others in life
Then what basis he has to serve others other than to serve God?
>the rest
yes

>>12467580
>not interested in political power
>wants to shape humanity
t. brainlet

>>12461303
you are also a faggot

>>12461303
>He believed jews were descendant of the dravidians

nietzsche was a master philologist, sorry there's no way he believed that, cite a source or gtfo

>>12461291
nietzsche was the last man

>>12471055
You're not answering the question, stop moving goalposts and simply admit there's no objective morality and you do this things because you want and they make you feel good in some way.

>>12461363
Stirner is even worse. There's a reason why his simplistic false dichotomies become a meme.

>>12465227
Yes, the true Christian is an atheist that believes to save society and himself

>>12461291
>Christianity promotes weakness. "Thou shalt be humble, caste and poor"

>Christianity fills your head with dangerous lies about afterlife, promoting short-sightedness, degeneration and hedonism.

These seem to contradict one another...

>>12465496
I believe in the Calvinist doctrine of total depravity. Thus humans are incapable of acting without self interest but that true selflessness and love come from God.

>>12465720
Christianity is not about moralising or becoming a better person. We are called to imitate Christ yes, but we also recognise that we all fall so far short of God's glory that we must be saved by faith as well. As long as you define belief in God as saying the words out loud this would be the case, I would say that God's truth is imprinted on the hearts of every man, after all we have tasted of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

As to whether someone who acts within the Christian ethic but dosn't espouse the doctrine would be saved noone can know. I think it is certainly possible, His mercy is infinite after all.

>>12472402
There's no objective morality. This is a Nietzsche thread after all.

For me personally it works like this:

1. Extreme suffering and pain are the low points of my life which I don't wish to repeat, and,
2. If I needlessly inflict pain on others then I will make them go through the same thing, making me either:
a. A hypocrite, who chooses to ignore the pain and the reality of other people
b. A malfunctioning computer that can't feel empathy or imagine themselves in another person's shoes (psychopath)

I feel this is rational, I could be wrong though, but you're not making any points of your own that I could respond to, and you're not explaining to me why I'm wrong. I'm also not too keen to responding to 4 word posts.

>>12463419
big based