/lit/ - Literature

Why did you post this on /lit/, and not on /his/ or /x/?

>>12585279
Allan Bloom and his gay circus did
Bellow says so in Ravelstein iirc
Bloom was one of the first to die of AIDS

>>12585281
Because /lit/ is the philosophy board.

>>12585289
correction
Allan Bloom et al. believed they were the Greek gods

>>12585279
doesn’t Julian Jaynes say the Greek gods in Iliad were the nascent self-consciousness of humanity?
Achilles first heard a voice in his head and thought it was Zeus
the voice said:
KILL KILLL KILLLL

>>12585299
This isn't philosophy, though, it's either plain religious talk, which belongs on /his/, or it's about mythological gods being real, which belongs on /x/. You didn't even mention a book or a philosopher or anything like that, you just expect us to start debating a return to paganism without prompting it with any /lit/ content. This is a bad thread and it should be deleted.

>>12585279
The only Greek god worthy of worship was Hestia

>>12585281
Why don't christlarpers?

Because rape

When i was younger i was very deep into occultism. I had and still do have a disdain for the religions of Abraham. So, for a while i decided to become a pagan. I figured that the old gods wouldnt mind having someone visit them, maybe its been a while.
During this time i chose to worship the greek god of dreams "Morpheus". I decided that i would visit Morpheus through the practice of lucid dreaming.
I came up with this concept on my own and found it super exciting. I would actually be able to talk to a god, not be like some stupid faggot christian and pray to god.
Like litterrly fucking see a god. The god of dreams, in my dream.
So one night i lucid dream, and in the dream im in my house, and i walk outside. The dream world was an odd one, it was eternally cloudy and raining. So i leave the house and start walking down the street looking for Morpheus. Then i turn the corner and there is a pack of dogs, who then precede to attack me and tear me limb from limb.
Then i wake up.
Have not had a dream since then.
That was a few years ago.

>>12585606
What would you do if you found out it wasn't a larp?

>>12585650
That's interesting.
Odd that your plans to encounter a divinity were counteracted by a divinity's means of dealing with /you. Doing stuff like this demands the utmost sincerity or it will fail. Given that this was essentially a test of the strength of your imagination and that no one needed to know does not augur well.

>>12585865
Occultism is counter to God

>>12585650
epic /x/-tier post
now fuck off

None of you even understand what pagan Gods were like. You treat them like they're capeshit, as though they're dudes with special powers. If you understood how the Greeks etc. actually understood Gods, you would quickly come to agree with Christianity.

>>12585911
I agree. But only if 'it' exists, which of course it does..
For some it serves as a back door, perhaps.

>>12586054
The "back door mentality" is the same mentality as the 'left handed path', it doesn't lead to God, it leads to nowhere but away from God.

I think of It as infinite pit of emptiness

>>12586190
Well? It isn't mine. Ultimately I feel many persons 'struggle' with belief, however.

>>12586330
If God is objective in your spiritual dichotomy then his path will also be objective.

There is a reason Christ said he's the only way to the Father.

>>12585279
Because of Jesus Christ.

>>12585388
Or it’s about ancient literature, Aka mythology

Have you flagged the elephant penis yet?

>>12585911
Occultism is the worship of gods, Christianity included

>>12586385
>Have you flagged the elephant penis yet

Loser.

>>12586346
If..then..
requires that the patient move
Iow's if such objectivity is desired, the only way that it manifests is through imaginative or spiritual means. There is prayer of course, but there is also action. To follow, is an action- for instance. As is picking up a cross.

>>12585279
>tfw in the near future this is how people will view Abrahamic god

Feels so fucking good lads, we're two generations away tops

>>12586392
Don't act like you know anything about Christianity sweetheart.

>>12585279
You're gonna have to get rid of the jews first, if anything. Remove the source of the abrahamic religions, and they'll naturally give way to others.

>>12586411
You realize the Monotheistic God has been found in philosophy to right?

>>12585279
because it's more a day-to-day behaviour religion and we don't have all sorts of temples and holy sites everywhere and we don't have the time to go announcing our love to the gods for any crop we grow, water we drink etc etc

>>12586392
occultism is directly related to Christianity in that it is the rejection of blind faith, and in almost all cases, occultists reject the notion that men are able to place their trust in the power of an omnipotent God. so, no. Christianity is not occultism.

>>12585604
Screw the gods, I’d burn some lamb for someone who actually gave a shit, Prometheus all the way.

>>12586472
So the occult are atheists who believe in magic?
Go on

I've been reading The Metamorphoses (about 40% of the way through), and really enjoying it.
But why does Jupiter keep raping virgins? Sure, the gods all have shortcomings, often being brash, unjust, petty, downright dumb at times - but Jupiter, despite being first among the gods, is the worst of them all. Does he not realize that his victims not only have to deal with the grief of having been deflowered before marriage, and occasionally becoming pregnant, but also have to face the wrath of Juno?
I first figured Juno was being unreasonable - why should she turn every girl and woman who had the misfortune of being born attractive to the eyes of the mightiest god in the Pantheon also have to be turned into some kind of bird? But the Procne/Philonela story makes it pretty clear that even being raped would be enough to paint you as your rapist's wife's enemy, a homewrecker, a mistress intent on destroying their family, so I chalked it up to a cultural difference. Not only that, but Juno can't exactly lash out at Jupiter, not only because he's her husband, but also because he's immensely powerful.
However, I don't think the issue of cultural difference extends so far as to cover all the intances of rape as being acceptable. Even though it seems to be taken much more lightly in the book than it is nowadays, it's still portrayed in a poor light. The most notable occurence is when Arachne decides to weave a series of occurences of gods deceiveing mortals, with the majority, if not all of them, being accounts of rape, mostly prepetrated by Jupiter, as a way to insult their cohort and her competitor, Minerva - and it was effective, too.

>>12586496
I don't think many occultists would outright deny the existence of God, or at least a deity, but there's a wide array of peculiar views about how that God relates to man. And to be called occult, that usually means that your theology is in some way contradictory to traditional Christian doctrine. But even "atheists who believe in magic" could fall into the occult category. It's an umbrella term.

>>12585939
Christianity is just much more comforting to the populous

I do.

>>12586496
You're reading comprehension is abysmal

>>12586588
>more comforting

Do you know what happened to the early Christians?

>>12585279
I'm sure it will work this time.

>>12586559
>but there’s a wide array of peculiar views about how that god relates to man
Same with Christians.
>it’s an umbrella term
It’s he ol’pagan slur, the old screech of heresy. There’s doctrinal difference but there’s nothing contradictory. A religion is a religion, a religion is a cult is a spook

>>12586628
Naw. That’s not it

>>12585279
it didn’t work out in The Secret History

>>12586634
but doesnt the concept of Christ and compassion sound a lot more swell than what Olympus offers? Or do I miss your point?

>tfw zeus will never lust for you

>>12585939
Socrates was a gadfly, but a gadfly who flew all the way to heaven where discovering the throne was empty, he made himself god
iow anything-goes

>>12586679
point blank, gadfly: Do you accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and Saviour?

>>12586682
You do miss the point.

Christianity is about removing your self from worldy desires, it's not as simple as "passion".
Removing your desires shows how flawed we as humans are because it's extremely difficult to remove them. To paraphrase Saint Paul "dying every day" is just as painful and hard to commit to as real sacrifice.

>>12585939
Why would you say that? The Greek gods seem to fill a variety of roles in the mythology, ranging from personifications of their social virtues, anthropomorphozations of natural forces, embodying aspects of human psychology, and allegorical explanations for improbable happenstance.

>>12586712
that must be what Allan Bloom meant in Ravelstein

>>12585279
You mean indoeuropean gods? They’re all part of our culture now. Zeus Odin Wotan Jupiter all the same deity, the sky father, and all Part of our psyche.

>>12586728
I don't know much about him, what's his deal?

>>12586736
He taught his students to be (Greek) gods
—when Bloom ate, hostesses put newspapers under him
—he had a gay group at Cornell that re-enacted Symposium in togas and had a gay orgy
—in his Great Books classes, he was so intense he put the lit end of the cigarette in his mouth
—in Ravelstein, he borrows $500 for a prostitute when he’s dying of AIDS

>>12586765
forgot: he borrowed the $500 from no-nothing Saul Bellow

>>12586679
>Same with Christians
You don't see a whole lot of Christians arguing for a blind watchmaker, do you?
>There’s doctrinal difference but there’s nothing contradictory
Huh? We're talking about occultism, sweaty. Occultists often drastically reframe God's character to the point that they are no longer talking about the same God. Their views cannot be accounted for in traditional Christian theology and thus they are not Christian.

>>12586697
Also, this.

>>12586697
Do you accept King Arthur as your eternal sovereign?

>>12586765
No, I don't think that was much like what I was getting to at all. For one thing, you can't really become the gods except in memory, as they embody forces fundamentally beyond us.

>>12586793
good, I love it when he’s wrong

>>12586780
>the same god
So? Occultists worship a different god or gods. Not my point. It’s all just theism.

>>12586807
So what do you worship?

>>12586793
that’s plot of The Secret History by Donna Tartt

>>12586826
I like life, healthy feels, long walks in nature, not just the beach, the smell of petrichor, clouds in general, organisms...
Love lots of things. Can’t say I worship anything, but life, I suppose.

>>12586859
god why do you post

>>12586829
What is? I was thinking of the process of heroes being deified and such.

>>12586859
>worshiping nothing
>worshiping anything that isn't eternally sacred
yikes

>>12586512
>But why does Jupiter keep raping virgins?
My polis also wants a son of Zesus to be its hero.

>>12586859
Fucking spell check. I corrected it twice.
>orgasms

>>12586888
There’s nothing above me deserving worship. Why do you feel you must live this way? With things and people above you. You make yourself a target for the bullies. Your kind have been emboldening them for centuries to all our detriment.
Stop it, can’tcha?

>>12586964
lmao this nigga thinks hes slick because he read thus spake zarathustra. must be nice living in a world where you can't think you're wrong. cur audes appropriquari sellam dei si non potes intellegere opera dei servorumque?

>>12586997
I wasn’t even consciously channeling Nietzsche here, but I take this as a compliment. No, I can certainly be wrong. I’m not wrong about this though
The Latin is either incorrect or the translator I used is faulty (or both) what are you asking?

>>12587049
>consciously channeling Nietzsche

Yikes

>>12585299
/his/ is for the discussion of history and other humanities such as philosophy

>>12587049
Can I be popular if I tripfag too?

>>12587233
Yes, anon. You can :)

We did this back in like 2014 when people memed Hellenism.

>>12585939
Why don't you explain it for us

>>12587541
Hellenismos. Yeah. Good times.

>>12587233
Uncertain. Not giving a damn what others thinks is a key to happiness though

>>12587582
Life isn't about your individual happiness.

>>12587837
My life is, as is you life is about yours