/lit/ - Literature

remember October 2018? if you think in pictures you're an NPC

Original post:
>>12808391

Intuition is a good word to use — Bergson has some good thoughts on it.

Of course, many concepts are necessarily linguistic.

>>12813398
I don't think in pictures. I think in language. But my language-articulated thoughts must originate somewhere, and it is from a intuition.

For example, if you want to feel the sensations on your hand, you must first direct attention to it through some sort of primordial will. The same is true for thoughts.

>>12813407
I'm not familiar with him, thanks for the reply. I will look into his work.

>Thought is made in the mouth.

>>12813417
>But my language-articulated thoughts must originate somewhere, and it is from a intuition.
>For example, if you want to feel the sensations on your hand, you must first direct attention to it through some sort of primordial will. The same is true for thoughts
I'm confused. do you want to know where your thoughts originate from?

>>12813439
I want to now more about this primordial state of thoughts, in which they contain information but are not yet expressed in language. This can be useful because they may transcend limitations of language or at least give us insight into how language and concepts work.
There are many things we don't have words for, there are different languages with different characteristics, and many concepts are murky, binary oppositions have limitations, etc.
I think this intuition behind discursive reason can provide information about a possible geometrical understanding of language, of how concepts and signs relate to each other, and their hierarchy.

For example, the mathematic genius Gauss used to say this: "i got it, now i have to get it". It meant he felt/saw the mathematical truth or geometrical relation he was looking for, and now he needed to express it in formal mathematical language.

>>12813383
I haven't read Henri Bergson but from Wikipedia it says:
>Bergson is known for his arguments that processes of immediate experience and intuition are more significant than abstract rationalism and science for understanding reality.
I don't know if this is helpful but it sounds like what you are talking about.

As An Introvert, I Have No Sense Of Intuition Around Unfamiliar People. My Mind Searches For Things To Say While Half Laughing.
The Best Conversations I've Had With People Are In My Head 5 Minutes After Meeting Them.

in the same way we can look to a circle and articulate propositions about it using math, we 'look' into the structure of concepts in our minds and articulate propositions using words

>>12813383
Reminds me of this thread and this long response to it: >>/lit/thread/S9475678#p9478194.. This chain of posts that got screencapped, turned into a minor self-improvement/autodidact meme, and then inspired a few other self-improvement/autodidact memes like the learning how to learn chart (pic-related) and the modern trivium chart (you know, that blue one).

It's a shame that people haven't done more than obsess over finding an out-of-print book instead of exploring the subject of thinking more.

>>12813383
phenomenology of perception, the part on language

>>12813383
>babby's first metacognition
just keep doing it or else you'll devolve into a normie

>>12813613
great stuff

>>12813613
>spending your time reading about about how to read books instead of teaching yourself to read books by reading books that don't tell you how to read them
not autodidactic

>>12813612
Well put, anon.

>>12813383
I think that every thought put into words is on some level corrupted by the limitations of your own vocabulary and verbal intelligence. Language is a means of establishing an imperfect consistency between inherently unique phenomena. I think much intuition is derived from your past experience, specifically that following your intuition is mostly just following pre-established neural pathways from previous experience. I think you would gain the most by continuing down the path of being aware of when you are relying on intuition, and trying to approach its conclusions critically where possible. Also, unironically talk with a woman about it. They are much more "intuitive" creatures on average at least in the sense that you mean.

From what I hear about the old epilepsy treatment where they severed connections between the brain’s hemispheres, those subcognizant thoughts come from the non-speaking side of the brain

>>12813705
whats with people having this autistic response to Mortimer Adler? if you want tips on how to read books more deeply, he's a good place to start.

>>12813383
The mind comes into direct content with ideas first, then from that point these ideas arise within language and other interactions with the world.
>How can I learn more about this 'intuition' which exists below linguistic articulation? Are there any books on this phenomenon?
Anything Plato

>>12813383
It makes a lot of sense to me to think about it as an emergent property of the connections between ideas. We know what to say because our mind has both an automatic function and a creative one, the reproduction of set phrases and an ability to spark new, spontaneous connections between ideas from an expansive vocabulary. Intuition short-circuits habitual modes of thinking in order to explore new pathways.

>>12813383
Your brain thinks at the level of metaphor before articulated thinking emerges. You can easily access this bedrock level of thought through the use psychedelics. Psilocybin mushrooms are more useful than LSD in my opinion.

>>12814329
any species in particular?

>>12814624
Psilocybe cubensis

the stomach has more neurons than the brain

the heart also has neural cells

look it up

>>12815982
>the ENS has an amazing 500,000,000 or so individual neurons composing its networks. The human brain contains around 200 times the number of neurons present in the ENS

>>12815982
>Stomachs are sentient

>>12813398
If you use the term NPC you’re low IQ.

>>12813729
>t. derrida

>>12816098
it was a reference to the twitter meme which eventually gave birth to the NPC meme

Think I know what I am thinking, they to write it down it bearly makes sense as text but perfect sense in mind.
Fuck this man.

>>12813383
>How can I learn more about this 'intuition' which exists below linguistic articulation? Are there any books on this phenomenon?
Books are written in language. What you need is LSD or shrooms

>>12813793
Yet one can also consciously choreograph visual scenarios, refining and editing them in the head as some composers can with sound, then as consciously describe them as a result. The play between modes of cognition, and between improvisation and composition, is just as important as the emergence into and out of consciousness, thoughts and their sensory precursors. The Romantics, who specialize in conjuring the mood of imaginary places, usually have the firmest grasp on the alchemy of such inner workings.

>>12813383
Pengolodh wrote a great treatise about this topic.
https://www.scribd.com/document/183497937/Osanwe-Kenta-by-JRR-Tolkien

>>12818980
>the romantics
The fantasists, the genre writers...
I am one

>>12819108
>Pengolodh
who? funny name btw

>>12813383
i don't know anything about this subject other than I've have thought about this a lot. When I noticed this first, I decided to try through practice to think impulse thoughts without the instinctual explanation in language and I found that I forgot what I was thinking almost immediately. It seems that language is a tool for long term memory, like tags onto thought rather than thought itself.

>>12813383
I took some really strong acid a couple of weeks ago and I had this image/feeling of thoughts coming from some unknown source into existence.

It was like turning on a hose and seeing the water shoot out of it. My thought/words were water.

The NPC meme is real, in a sense. We are all NPCs, but some are AWARE of it. That is, almost all your thoughts are some kind of conditioned response that originated from some experience youve had in your life.

You know how the question, "how can something cone out of nothing?" Well that is kinda what our consciousness is. What im rrally curious about is imagination/creativity. When you become aware of your conditioning, what happens after that? Are you still just shooting out conditioned thoughts?

>>12813383
read Musil

>>12820638
>almost all your thoughts are some kind of conditioned response that
It’s from learning a language. You were just observing nougats being transformed into words.
And enough of this “non player character” meme. I fail to see how that relates to anything.

>>12821347
only NPCs are triggered by the NPC meme

>>12813383
Cringe

>>12821947
no u

>>12821347
>nougats
What the fuck? *Thoughts* transformed into words.

>>12821944
No, u.

>>12823243
Butterfly youre quite far along in your conversion process. Once I knew a lesbian who said she was a bisexual when I was around

:3

>>12813383
Here's a little thought experiment to try;
>Close eyes, sit comfy
>Pretend that any question you ask can be answered automatically
>Ask a question, let the "answer" come in the form of your stream of thought
>Try to see, hear, taste and feel the answer
>DON'T respond or react to the "answer", not even with your own thoughts
You won't get anything informative but it is good fun. For instance, I'll ask myself the meaning of life. The answer was random images of flowers, bugs and the sound of water. Hippy bullshit but like I said, fun.