/lit/ - Literature

you're just a pleb

Yah that settles it. Going to read Moby Dick again. So good.

>>13266335
Is this book bad?
>NO,U!
oks

This is exactly why i don‘t read fiction anymore. It‘s all just random nonsense.

Funny how whenever plebs complain about moby dick it just exposes what morons they are

>>13266330
Imagine complaining about learning so much

Are you retarded?

>>13266405
Name one thing you learned in this book that you actually could apply irl

>>13266444
Can't kill God.

>>13266330
if you didn't enjoy the prose, the noble shifts from tale to philosophy to lecture to fable, the gentle guidance of the author, the humanity and the display of delineated genres through history of gothic, sentimentalism, harsh realism, and psychological depth on display in this book, i pity you rather than mock you. it's an astonishing work, and even in simple retrospect, i am reminded of my own fondness for it, and do not envy your lack thereof.

>>13266502
It literally has a chapter talking just about whales tail.

>>13266663
That's literally before he sets sail. Did you read the whole thing?

But the mast-head chapter was delightful and made me feel things. You’re just a bitch

>>13266356
unironically yes

>>13266335
>>13266381

>>13266444
Respect the harpoon line

>>13266444
don't stand downwind from someone that has been eating beans

>>13266729
Why is so hard for people to see that this book is overrated?
It sure has great lines and nice chapters. I like the mass chapter, almost at the begining.
but there are also chapters of fuckin nothing. I tried fooling myself thinking "I know, with all this boring stuff the writer wants to make me feel the boredom of people sailing for whales on empty seas"
but the trick does not work

>>13266844
>I know, with all this boring stuff the writer wants to make me feel the boredom of people sailing for whales on empty seas
Pleb-tier interpretation

>>13266330
Yes, fuck yes. It's a massive piece of shit, and people just say they enjoyed it so they don't look stoopid.

>>13266356
Was about to post this after reading: >>13266335

troll thread, or a thread invented by an absolute moron. it is uncertain which is worse.

>>13266851
how the fuck should I interpret chapters about critics on whale paintings and description schoolar anon? please enlighten me

>>13266855
you people claim it to be god-tier book like an act of faith.

>zoomers getting into Literature
Such an amusing sight. Like a monkey trying to play a guitar.

>>13266871
So, apart of thinking about yourselves as superior because you like a book wich everyone for no aparent reason agrees is a god-tier book, will anyone give me a reason on why the book is so good?
because I am not the only person who thinks it is vastly overrated and replies on this thread can sum up to:
>bestest book. you to idiot to understand. (Smug face)

>>13266499
Yeah, because he doesn‘t exist

>>13266822
Because if you hadn‘t read it you wouldn‘t?

>>13266843
Profound wisdom indeed. Worth all the crap about whales.

>>13266862
i gave you my reasons above. i can trace the moments of influence and changes in tone and structure between each chapter, am still fresh in the memory of certain moments of the work as though i was a present witness to them, i have such a personal attachment to his prose, his sentiments, and his themes that it's not a matter of faith or even popularity, but my own dear opinion and pleasure derived from it. i would venture once more to say i pity you for your lack of joy upon reading it, and hope that you stop wasting your time attempting to attack something you obviously regard as dross.

i think that it is quite possible that your chagrin is a result of the feeling of being left out of some "club" of people who can indeed thoroughly enjoy it.

>>13266330
>the virgin Melville
muh whale penis
muh whale anatomy
>the chad Hugo
spends 100+ pages on a detailed, philosophical take on the Battle of Waterloo and the history of monasteries

>>13266911
>i gave you my reasons above.
True, at least you did.
>i have such a personal attachment
hhhhmmmm....
>i pity you
HHHHMMMMMM....

So, as far as the thread goes, the only person who gave me some kind of reasons relies on how much he likes it and feels sorry for me because I don't

I really start thinking this is some kind of meme book for elitist and fedoras. I pity the fool who can't, unlike me, enjoy such book who all is a masterpiece. so we can romp in our own egos.

>>13266891
>for no aparent reason
If you haven't read or heard anything about why this book is constantly refered to the masterpiece of American literature by now I don't really know what to tell you. Maybe try formating a critique of this book that doesn't amount to it having lots of talk about whales in it and see what happens.

>>13266330

It kind of hard not to call you retarded when you entire post is you complaining that Moby Dick is about a whale. Melville could have written about anything and the writing would still be excellent. He wrote about what he wrote about because he personally found it interesting enough, but the reason people like it has nothing to do with that. Did you think everyone was just super into whaling? What the fuck is wrong with you?

>>13266953
i do not feel superior to you. you likely have a great many qualities all your own that i do not have, and it is hardly my ego that guides me in what i have said thus far.
my pity is the same pity i have when my good friend doesn't enjoy the taste of red boat fish sauce, or a particularly fine pipe tobacco, or what have you, and i feel sadness mainly when we can't share something wonderful together. i do think you're primarily a troll, and stand by my claim that alternatively you are a moron, for your anger at the work is trivial, and the chapters that seemed to be your source of complaint against it are themselves no incredible bulwark.
i do my best to show my pity without some anger, trying to empathize with one in their differences to me, but sometimes my patience is driven from me. in this instance your antagonism is just a product of the environment, i suppose, and with that i dislodge myself from any further intrigue at our unified expense. good luck to you, and i hope that you can find pleasure in other literature, despite having found none in this particular avenue.

>>13266891
It's the most discussed book from American literature, areyou kidding??

>>13266940
the history of monasteries sounds interesting tbqhwy

>>13267002
>you don't like it? are you retarded?
>>13267008
>ad populum. not even trying.
>>13267004
I see. I'm not a troll, and my stupidity wiould come mainly from the fact that I'm not a native english speaker so I can't be fluent enough I guess.
Literature is huge, so people will enjoy different books and that's ok. what I don't understand is the main reaction of the people in this thread. I mean, I can understand an ansewr like yoursm the kind: I enjoyed it so much I hope everyone could enjoy it as much.
but what I find is mostly some kind of indisputable agreement on the book being amazing and any kind of question is labeled as "you are too stupid to get it". so, the elitism I was talking about.
It somehow remembers me of Mein kamp or The art of war, in the way that they are praised for many people who doesn't seem to have read them.

>>13267033
>ad populum. not even trying.
I said that because you were asking for essays and such. Thousands of books and theses have been written on it.

>>13267052
> you were asking for essays and such.

you were replying to another anon then. I didn't asked for such things and I have no doubt in this book being discussed, critized and readen on these days.

>Please convince me to like this book, /lit/. See, I'm a retard and can't think for myself and instead of looking for serious material on the subject in order to fill my ignorant pathetic void, I came here to shitpost and whine like an austist about this thing I don't like.
This should be a bannable offense.

>>13266335
fpbp

>I share bandwidth with readers who have the critical capacity of a slice of wet bread

Shit's depressing, bros

>>13267033
my thoughts are that melville's ill treatment during his lifetime by the literary world has given rise perhaps to a curse on those who would blight it. with the same vigorous censure he suffered at the hands of his peers and dastardly critics, do most men spite those who would cast any aspersions towards his magnum opus.
i ask you to forgive, then, my accusing you of being a moron, and i have some respect for your going against the grain at the behest of your own genuine opinions, however, this is hardly the place or method to go about finding a sympathetic voice to help enlighten you in the best aspects of this work. people here brook no insult, it seems.
as to your being esl, i would say perhaps that as my favorite part of the work was its turgid prose, i wonder if it is limiting our own enjoyment in it. perhaps after some more training in the language you might develop a softer and fonder view of Moby Dick.

>>13267068
>/lit/ board for literature discussion.
>discuss literature
>gets mad

>>13267080
>m-my autistic ramblings are discussion!!
kys

>>13266330
Never go full retard. Try r/books, that might be more your speed.

>>13266335
/thread

>>13267078
>I share the internets with people with different opinions.
I just can't bros, I'm going to kill myself

>>13267095
>Get's assblasted and asks for banning as opinion
>posts >>13267095
200IQ

>>13267102
Dude, I read other books. I'm just trying to discuss this one. because I don't understand how it is so praised when it has chapters like those ones.
And don't get me wrong, there is very good stuff on it. but I find it pretty overrated. and this seems to tickle peoples hemorroids here

>>13267108
>I'm just trying to discuss this one
This is not dicussion, this is mere whining. You don't mention themes, allusions, characters, passages, prose or anything related to the actual substance of the book. And your opinion is not even unique, every retard on Fagreads and Plebbit also whines about the same things you do about this book. I mean, what do you want us to do? Yes, it has chapters on whaling. Tough shit.

>>13267033

You're a retard because you don't understand the obvious reason why people like it. It's understandable that you might not like it. Lots of people don't like it.

You came in here and said:

>> Guys, Moby Dick is just a really big book about a whale. You weren't just pretending to like it to try and trick me were you?

>> That's retarded. That's why you are a retard.

>>13267108
Could you explain why it is overrated? Preferably without mentioning that yes, there's indeed a lot of information about whales in it.

>>13267126
nice one, at least you focus my mistake, I'll try.
I think it has many descriptive stuff that worths nothing but filling. as example, the chapters I said, about whale paintings, about whale clasifications and so.
>>13267134
as I just said, pretty dull to be so praised.

But that's all interesting

>>13266444
>apply irl
go back to vidya, late night tv, and podcasts

>>13267142
First ask yourself what the whale represents in the context of the book. Moby-Dick isn't just the story of big whale nor is it an allegory (Melville specially says this in it). Once you've thought about that think about the paintings and images, what does he say about them? Remember the painting in the Inn too? and what Pip says? I'll give you a hint in that they're tied to the etymology and the chapters on the whiteness of the whale (very important chapter) as well as this:

>Champollion deciphered the wrinkled granite hieroglyphics. But there is no Champollion to decipher the Egypt of every man’s and every being’s face. Physiognomy, like every other human science, is but a passing fable. If then, Sir William Jones, who read in thirty languages, could not read the simplest peasant’s face in its profounder and more subtle meanings, how may unlettered Ishmael hope to read the awful Chaldee of the Sperm Whale’s brow? I but put that brow before you. Read it if you can.

>>13267142
You are not explaining anything, why is it so dull? Because there's long-winded sections about whales?

>>13267172
I interpreted it as "wanting something too much". the best example would be Ahab, blinded by vengeance (same stuff as count of MC)

>>13267182
dude. I do not need all that information about paintings and a clasification about whales to understand a book. that stuff is just filling

>>13266444

go back to watching lifehack videos you pleb

https://youtu.be/eq5LDSZDr2E
Watch this if you want an academics insight into why the book is good or at least what the purpose of those whaling chapters is.
Its quite a long watch though, so I doubt you will

>>13267202
>"it's just filling bro xDD"
>not understanding what a novel is
>not understanding 19th century literature
plotfag zoomers were a mistake. end your life immediately.

>>13267068
... what else would you talk about on a fucking literature board?

>>13266330
It's in the spirit of great epics, you pleb.
Did you not enjoy the catalogue of ships in the Illiad?

>>13267202
what is it that you "need" in a book really?

>>13266330
don't read this book. never forget that melville stalked nathaniel hawthorne!!

>>13266343
I would but I listen to the audiobook every 5 years or so and I just finished a cycle

>>13267224
I understand. I have a problem now.
I read the quixote a time ago, maybe the last year. I know Quixote has a horse, Rocinante (I don't know if it gets another nae in english).
yet, Cervantes doesn't start writing chapters like:
About horses
Horse clasification
About the horses back
Clasification on non-spanish horse races
and so on.
So, is it a bad book because of it?
>plotfag zoomers
oh no, I seek for a plot when reading a story, what the fuck is wrong with me?
>implying zoomer.
nothing on your post is right.

>>13267241
Didn't read the Iliad
>INB4 LOL he didn't read the Iliad

>>13267202
Obsession is a big part of the book (in the Shakespearean way, Ahab is modeled on Macbeth) but I meant what does the whale represent. You could say the quest for the whale is "wanting something too much" but the creature itself is what I mean. If you need another example, what does the whiteness of the whale represent?

>>13267262

LOL he didn't read the illiad

fucking pleb

>>13267248
That's like using chicken shit as a fertilizer for an amazing peach tree

>>13267262
>Didn't read the Iliad
Opinion discarded.

>>13267126
OP BTFO

>>13267269
I didn't think much about this and I can't give you a good response. I feel like any response I give you will be something stupid.
as the writer tells about it's unique whitness and being the only known white whale. I would say that. "uniqueness"

>>13267262
>WAAA WAAA WHY DONT WRITERS WRITE ABOUT WHAT I LIKE?? WHY DO THEY ALL DO THEIR OWN THING? WAAAA WAAA
Jesus. If it's nor for you it's not for you. Fucking people here lmao

>>13267304
Uniqueness is probably the right answer though, or at least right to me

>>13267262
>So, is it a bad book because of it?
Yes you figured it out, every story should be told in the exact vein of Moby Dick otherwise it is a very very bad one.

>>13267310
you are maming a fool of yourself and contributing nothing. please show us how much you know about XIX centruy literature and why I'm so wrong.

>>13267313
But I also feel like there is more to it. the author also talks about it being massive, fierce and astute. Moby dick knows how to hide and how to fight.
so, is it luck? wich always hides from us?
is hte author trying to catch the muses?
I think it will depend on your interpretation, so this discussion goes nowhere

>>13267304
>>13267313
How does the whale representing uniqueness tie in with the rest of the book? With Ahab's quest for it, with the etymology and extracts, with all the whaling chapters (which if you reread contain far more than banal information), and especially with what you pointed out, the depictions of whales and the paintings?

I'm not out to get you anon, it's evident you haven't engaged with the text beyond a surface level reading. Melville wrote every word to serve a purpose, and hearing everyone tell you the book is great should clue you into the fact that he isn't just writing 600 pages of whaling facts for the hell of it.

Here's an example: read the chapter The Castaway and tell me what Pip saw and what happened to him because of it and why. If you actually do this, don't use any of Melville's words but your own in an explanation. Using his words means you don't understand it.

All I want anon is for you to engage with the text a little and try to understand why others love the book, because I can tell you now it isn't some conspiracy for everyone to sound more intelligent. I really think you should at least listen to the first 30 mins to an hour of >>13267213 if you want an academic to open your eyes to some features of the text you can't discern by yourself. I've listened to the whole 8 hours and can tell you it's quality stuff.

>>13267345
Well it 100% depends on interpretation but to me it's still worth discussing somehow. White could also be "the Redeemer" or the creature that destroys Ahabs "sin" Where sin just means a tedious, wrong-headed tendency. A destructive tendency that the white whale ultimately "breaks"

But getting back to your answer, I am not seeing how it means Luck per se. Are you saying the whale was intended to be lucky?

>>13267353
I will. I can tell you now that I don't have 8 hours to hear it straight and, if it gets too deep I may get lost because of poor english skills.
There's something strange to this book I can tell you, as you at least are trying to give something.
I don't understand how Melville writes a chapter like the mass one (chapter 9 I think) wich I would read a thousand times and then get into those clasifications about whales about paintings and about stuff that just feels like filling and I'm unable to connect. there's something wrong there. something missing.

>>13267372
I mean luck as Fortune.
I understand your interpretation, yet uniqueness per se might be an explanation good enough "originality" is something pretty hard to hunt down and sometimes the more you stubornly try, the less you get it

>>13266356
>is this book bad? I can’t decide by myself for some reason
>no, the problem is with you
What more do you want?

>>13267353
We are different posters saying different things. But can you narrow down what you think the Whiteness represents since you don't agree with my perspective?

>>13266330
mobile dick lmao

>>13267398
Fine, so I can see whiteness meaning Uniqueness or The Redeemer. But how did you arrive at whiteness meaning Fortune? I just didn't see that in the text and was asking how you came to that conclusion. Basically can you show your math on that?

>>13267345
>please show us how much you know about XIX centruy literature and why I'm so wrong.
I'm not showing anything to anyone. You haven't even read the bloody Iliad ffs lmao you're a pleb troll who hates a book, that's all.

>>13266444
Fuck off silly capitalist pragmatist. utilitarian bastard...

>>13267422
I did not get it from whiteness but from moby dicks elusive nature and ahabs blind desire of possesing it.

>>13267353
I'm thinking now if the translation has something to do with it. see, you tell me to look at "the castaway" chapter. Castaway translates as desecho, but probably the correct answer would be "el naufrago" o "el naufragio" wich I can't find on my book.

>>13267402
I've been thinking about Moby-Dick for a while and I'm not completely certain I know what the whiteness is. He has a whole chapter dedicated to it you should read but the whiteness is threaded subtly throughout the book that I just don't know. I think Melville means whiteness as a kind of loss of meaning when an objective truth is desired. See
>Is it that by its indefiniteness it shadows forth the heartless voids and immensities of the universe, and thus stabs us from behind with the thought of annihilation, when beholding the white depths of the milky way? Or is it, that as in essence whiteness is not so much a colour as the visible absence of colour; and at the same time the concrete of all colours; is it for these reasons that there is such a dumb blankness, full of meaning, in a wide landscape of snows—a colourless, all-colour of atheism from which we shrink?

The book deals a lot with interpretation, so I think whiteness here is the collection of interpretations to try form a single ultimate truth, but when you do this it results in nothingness, a dumb blankness full of meaning. He says when all the colours are put together they become white (and thus when separate they form a rainbow, a host of different meanings and interpretations), and that this whiteness is the same as the absence of colour, or that having them all together like that is as good as having none of them. But even with this, what does it mean that the whale is white? I'm not sure and it'll take a few rereading to fully get it I think.

>>13267442
Chapter 93

>>13267447
That is pretty interesting. Melville throws another line at us regarding combinations and murky meaning that could relate to what you are asking for:
>Doubts of all things earthly, and intuitions of some things heavenly; *this combination* makes neither believer nor infidel, but makes a man who regards them both with equal eye.
I put in that emphasis.
I need to re-read what you are saying a few times to process it.

>>13267478
That line is a personal favourite of mine. Really made me reconsider my position on a lot of aspects of spiritually and religion, it's better to have equal consideration of the two stances than blindly jump into one, like you see here with (for example) the Catholicism threads and the atheism threads where they are so extremely adamant about being correct. It's important to know that when he says infidel he really means non-believer or atheist (but not in the Christian sense, Melville is a polytheist).

>>13267447
>>13267478
Okay how about this. The Whiteness represents the >concrete of many individual themes. Those themes cover a range from sacred to profane. When the whale destroys the ship it only leaves one person alive: the one who sits on the fence between sacred and profane (whereas sacred Starbuck and profane Ahab die).
So yeah the whiteness maybe represents the difficulty and simultaneous banality of truth. And maybe the tendency of truth to wipe out those who try to oversimplify it.

>>13267536
I think we're arriving at the same type of idea fren. I typed this out while you posted, but it's almost the same thing in many ways >>13267554

>>13267554
>>13267580
Really interesting view anonymous. Thanks!

>>13266444
Well not judge people by their looks or how other ppl talk about them. Yes im refering to qeequec.

>>13266444
every part of the whale can be used for something

>>13266335
FPBP

I read those parts and tried to imagine what it would be like to read them without ever having seen a whale.

>>13266335
Fpbp

>>13266444
don't sleep with a knife under your pillow

>>13268644
this

>>13266844
>the mass chapter
1) it's not mass you papist
2) you should finish the book before you criticize it. it's all worth it in the end. trust me.

if you don't like a book because it's boring, reading isn't for you.

>>13266330
Is there any modern profession analogous to whaling?

>>13266330
A whale of a tale

>>13266361
You sound like some bitter boomer

>>13269606
not true

if a book is boring then it doesn't interest the reader

there are genre of books for everyone, and if the reader gets bored of one specific (type of) book then it just isnt their cup of tea


if you think reading is just powering through boring text then id like to see what kind of reddit-tier books your bookshelf is comprised of

>>13269717
>I
Probably fracking. It's really lucrative but dangerous. All men, and a similar frontier aethstetic.

>>13268494
Except Queequeg buttfucks Ishmael when they share a bed at the inn. Really should've been more judgemental.

>>13270700
Better to sleep with a sober cannibal than a drunk Christian.

>>13266844
Why are you even concerned with novels being "overrated"? This book is replete with western cultural references. To not get lost in the interconnectedness of this novel tells me more about you than the novel itself. You cannot call this work overrated. What would you consider a good work anyways?

>>13270700
Sharing a bed with someone was very common at the time.

>>13266444
there is an undeniable allure to evil and satanism and you should be vigilant against it rather than complacent.

>>13266330
Fuck you are actually a really good debater, where did you learn it ? (Not sarcasm)

>>13267260
so you never read moby dick? you should try it some time

>>13273861
youtube tutorials

>>13274138
No Aristotle ? No Whately ? Really ?

>>13274344
lmao aristotle
have a laff off this guy

>>13266330
Read it again, every section that you complain about can be interpreted in a way beyond the literal meaning, and you can find pretty blatant evidence for it. You just weren’t paying attention or it was over your head.

>>13267345
Meaningful literature doesn't bend itself to your particular interests, the onus is on you as a reader to try and engage with a work on its own terms and appreciate what it has to offer. This is a skill in and of itself, if you're willing to challenge yourself a little you will get a lot more out of novels.

You are listening to some well explained guidance in this thread though, which is good.

>>13266335
fpbp

>>13266444
Beware of hubris