/lit/ - Literature

>>13896141
>But I was shocked when my professor the other day derided Chaucer as a "white male" who's privilege as a white man gave him unfair credence and appreciation in the literary space of the time.
Jesus Christ. What the fuck is their problem? I'm not even white (or am I?) but I don't see why liberals have such a hate boner for white men so much. Like, wtf. Not even fucking Chaucer is at peace.

>>13896141
This stuff is all over the place. I don't really give a shit, I can still read chaucer and admire his genius. I am eternally fucking thankful that we have the internet now and no matter how much academia replaces the canon with bullshit we can still find all of it.

>>13896141
Did you ask her why she was teaching a course on Chaucer despite all this? In my experience, professors only throw out these kind of denunciations because it's expected of them by both their students and the powers that be. I would be surprised if your professor actually hated Chaucer as much as these quotes suggest.

>going to college

>>13896225
She needs to teach the class to combat the white privilege attached to his work.

>>13896225
It's a chacer class. she's a self-described medievalist. my guess is she became a professor through conventional study but now she's in her 60s or whatever she's going rogue and clearly conflating her personal ideology with the study of the material yet representing it as fact.

Me, personally, I am a writer and journalist and have long studied white supremacy, nationalism, the alt-right, 4chan, etc. In all my time reading into this stuff and interviewing these people I've NEVER heard a white nationalist or racist cite Geoffrey Chaucer as an inspiration for their views. So her argument seemed awful clunky and convoluter.

for example...Steve Jobs and Steve Wozniak created Apple computers. two white males. are you complicit in white supremacy for using a Macbook Pro? there's no end to the extent of this logic if you apply it wholesale.

>>13896141
Some of you still think this is all a joke. Some others think this is all a storm that will blow over. It's neither. We've been telling you for decades. We warned you about sex and drugs. We warned you about the reds. We warned you about the queers. We're warning you about the trannies now. Repent. Save yourselves from this untoward generation.

>>13896261
the entire modern concept of privilege as it relates to multiracial societies makes no fucking sense whatsoever when applied to Chaucer's environment. the closest parallel would be Norman oppression of the British, and they were both white.

>>13896261
wasn't jobs of middle eastern descent? his dad was a paki or something

>>13896261
Steve Jobs's dad was a Muslim from Syria.

>>13896296
well shit he looks white to me.

>>13896306
He has certain Middle Eastern vibe but he's definitely Caucasian. Not sure what "white" even means nowadays, though.

Drop out NOW! I went to a UC and it doesn’t get any better and for what it costs it is not worth continuing.

>>13896280
In my college class that shoved privilege bullshit they claimed race didn't exist until after Chaucers time

>>13896141
Ok but I’m sure you‘re either lying or misinterpreting or in a one of a kind scenario because no medievalist would ever say this, it just doesn’t make sense. It is certainly not representative of medieval scholars today in any way whatsoever. Shame on the /pol/tards using this as inflammation to push forward their agenda.

>>13896468
nobody cares what you're sure of
https://aha.confex.com/aha/2019/webprogram/Session17520.html

>>13896477
Historians of medieval Europe have recently faced a strong intellectual challenge from our colleagues conversant in critical theory, primarily housed in literature departments. The basic organizing principles and methods of medieval historiography, it has been argued, are programmed to support a predominately cis-gendered, white, male, heterosexual, Christian, patriarchal regime of power-knowledge—regardless of the individual historian’s own intellectual and political commitments. What is needed, therefore, is a movement to reshape the historical study of the premodern past, a movement cognizant of critical race theory, intersectionality, and indigenous studies, among other critical frameworks.

Failing to do so, it is argued, not only (re)inscribes modern paradigms and regimes of power onto the medieval past, it contributes to the ongoing white-nationalist appropriation of the Middle Ages, “weaponizing” medieval studies as a tool that can be used to promote toxic masculinities or a worldview free from white guilt—and that can be violently deployed against non-Christians, peoples of color, and other vulnerable populations.

they can take my white privilege but NO ONE will ever take my christianity

ad maiorem dei gloriam

btw you can learn to avoid SJW professors if you do some digging and/or get to know the people in your department

that's what i did in college for example i took my mandatory black lit class with a prof whiter than santa claus

>>13896141
why cant you also learn about chaucer and his position of privilege due to ideology of the time (and present) while also still learn about chaucer? also nothing is stopping you from forming more opinions in relation to what she state instead of just sperging out about commie brainwashing. if you really cared about it you might also acknowledge privileges held by any given person? or you just triggered by the word privilege and white.

>>13896693
because who cares about all that, let's discuss the man's works, no the man. it's a literature class not a history course.

>>13896702
because any work is influenced by history and context and who the person was and who they were surrounded by. aw is dat tew much wearning for yewww ;_:

Just wanna say, if you actually read Chaucer he seems to have learned a kind of mansuetude that is both charming and rustic despite his social standing.

>>13896224
/thread

>>13896141
This is the new ruling ideology anon. These people are wearing the trappings of academic respectability and high culture like a skinsuit. They're going to take it off when it's no longer needed, and you're going to like what's actually underneath even less.

>Is this really what the world is coming to?
Yes

>>13896280
It's not about making sense. It's about destroying all evidence that there was ever anything but the Present. The very fact that the world Chaucer describes is quite different from our own is the very reason he must be forgotten.

>>13896280
It's not supposed to make any sense. Does Juche make any sense? No, it's whatever the fuck Dear Leader Kim wants with some increasingly threadbare Communists decals applied.

>>13896693
Eat shit nigger

>>13896693
>why cant you also learn about chaucer and his position of privilege due to ideology of the time (and present) while also still learn about chaucer?
cancer desu

>>13896141
you should get a refund, man. really.

>>13896203
one day its gonna get you, it will grow. the meek shall inherit the earth. i pray to not witness mass psychological subversion.

>>13896717
You're repulsive

>>13900052
>>13898594
>>13897974
t. brainlet

>>13896717
what does muh white privilege have to do with the tales themselves?

>>13896261
>she's going rogue
is this your first class at a UC?

>>13900256
the point is any work may not comment directly on white priv or any privilege either, but every decision made in a work is a direct product of the person making it, who is also a direct product of there point in time. anyone getting triggered is just a brainlet denying white privilege exists. literally even any dive in ideology provides insight into this concept and it applies to anone at any point in time in history, its not just applicable to white people from any part of the word.
you can just read the books and chill on it but if you want to expand your knowledge about anything in regards to lit or history why wouldnt you learn more?

>>13896141
>California
What'd you expect, kek
California isn't your clay any more gringo.

>>13896183
>I don't see why liberals have such a hate boner for white men so much. Like, wtf. Not even fucking Chaucer is at peace.
Because they simultaneously believe in equality and don't believe that non-whites are moral agents, but rather, are objects in a morality play acted upon by Whiteness. So when Equality is not achieved white people must be the problem because they haven't worked hard enough to realize Our Values and civilize the inferiors.

>>13900294
But who the fuck cares about all that nonsense wankery? Fucking Americans, always sucking ther ever-living fun out of everything. FUCK YOU ALL.

>>13900317
LEANRING IS FUN NO BULLIE

>>13900294
Please explain how in the fuck 'white privilege' applies to Chaucer.

>>13900325
re read it you re re.

>>13900294
Fuck off nigger. Chaucer lived in a monoracial society and in no way was his writing influenced by your modern propaganda.

>>13900330
Does Arab privilege apply to Mohammed? Does Chinese privilege apply to Confucius? What the fuck does this even mean, everybody in Britain was white then.

>>13900322
>NOOOOOOOOOOOOO Y-YOU CAN'T JUST READ AND APPRECIATE A LITERARY MASTERPIECE REEEEEEEEEEE YOU HAVE TO TALK ABOUT THE AUTHOR'S SKIN COLOUR AND WHAT HIS PRIVILEGE STATUS WAS THEN APOLOGIZE TO BLACKS OF ALL RACES AND WOMEN BECAUSE THEIR FEE FEES WERE HURT AGAIN SOMEHOW

Drop out (seriously) and tell your teacher to go to hell. They DO NOT deserve your money

>>13900339
Liberals believe that anywhere in the world at any time was as diverse as an American high school band.

>>13900339
Yeah privilege is just another way to describe anybody in a position above another person because of whatever their position is in society.
So yea even where there are no white people things like political or religious positions are above the peons. people are just triggered when the word white gets added.
>>13900338
see above
>>13900345
i said you can read it and not care about the other shit, but why not learn more.

>>13900364
But that's not white privilege, we've already mentioned in this thread that it would be Norman privilege or class privilege. The upper and lower classes were both white.

>>13900364
Also it's ridiculous to say people get triggered about 'white privilege' when terms like Chinese privilege don't even exist in academia for anyone to get triggered about.

>>13900374
how far where chaucers writings spread within the general time frame of him making them? even if not in the immediate region over the course of time white peoples general position in spreading across the planet and establishing racial systems of hierarchy is what the ops instructor was talking about. i wasnt there so i dont know.

>>13900385
fuck off, nigger lmao

>>13900379
write a book about it then bitch

>>13900364
I'm a total brainlet when it comes to litterature but can't you be legitimately opposed to the idea that past work has to be used as a spring board to insert your own contemporary grievance relating to race and gender, especially if you happen to be the villain in the grievance narratives?

It's not clear that a guy like Chaucer understood himself as a privileged white male, or that "white" was one of his category of thought, so that I'm not even sure that if you are to make some appeal to the value of added context, these categories would automatically be the most valid ones to apply. The argument can certainly be made that they're anachronistic and shoe horned.

>>13900392
And you prove right there you don't actually give a shit about the concept of privilege, you just like attacking white people. faggot

>>13900394
no im not opposed to that, and im not even really saying that the instructor of op wasnt using it as such or wasnt even making a good argument, like i said i wasnt there. but what i am saying is that retrospectively with the knowledge we have of the world and its societies we can establish who were in positions of any kind of privileged. it more just feels like people are shutting down the idea of talking about concepts like white privilege at all.
no i dont think that chaucer or anyone else is away of themselves as any kind of privildge. thats kind of the whole point of talking about it or dissecting the concept at all, and in a large sense any ideology whose entire function is to operate without people being aware that the are making decisions or operating inside of the ideological framework at all.

>>13900397
no read my other posts. and im telling you if there arent any voices that talk about it, feel free to make an argument that talks about chinese privilege. also i cant actually prove that there are or arent.

>>13900379
It's not meant to be accurate. It's a psyop against white people meant to trivialize any sort of white confidence or confidence

>>13900423
Yeah Im sure you'd get away with discussing something like Jews and Indians having more wealth than white people in America being a marker of privilege.

Academia doesn't give a shit about truth, you're a cowardly lying faggot

>>13900429
*competence. It's fucking bullshit. Literally brain poison

>>13896141
Fuck Academia. It’s a rotting apple that can barely play in its own detritus.

Libertas is somewhere else.

>>13900433
i dont think academia cares about the truth either and if anything your supporting my argument that privilege exists by saying academia doesnt give a shit about the truth, as in academia in america is a white establishment which would prefer to perpetuate obfuscation of truth.
also wealth is a marker of privilege but privilege of any kind is made up of more than wealth. and i would say jews do have a privilege akin to white.

>>13900462
It’s a double edged sword; the ever changing “they” wielding real power in America is chiefly characterized by it’s intangibility and the abstraction of it’s material wealth. Thanks to this disembodiement, this “they” can purposefully control dialogue by giving space to dummy arguments and stifling obvious truths.

>>13900512
A fucking child could see the trajectory we are on.

>>13896670
>mandatory black lit class

>>13900433
>Jews
Hello, fellow white people.
>Indians
Hello, fellow people of color.

hmm

>>13900528
>Vietnamese
Hello, fellow comrade

>>13900521
you can just not go to school and refresh /pol/ all day if you want.
>>13900512
this is ideology in general, and anyone making an argument against a concept as simple and accessible as white privilege thinks they are transgressing current ideology when in fact are entrenching themselves deeper into it.

>>13900521
lmao ikr fucking americans

>>13900538
You're aware that blacks are just stupid right? That's why they do badly...everywhere they exist on earth. It has nothing do with your white privilege meme

You trying to frame your concept of white privilege as transgressive is hilariously pathetic

>>13896141
Stay strong bro. No matter what, do not break kayfabe and argue w the professor. I did that in one of my Human Resources pre-reqs and I regretted it instantly. These people are insane weirdos who are completely unaware of their nietzchean will to power. Also, put them in South Central LA for 10 min. at 1 am and they'll call for a police escort. They would never duck someone in a wheelchair. They dont give a fuck about minorities, the disabled, whatever. Its all virtue signaling

>>13896670
>mandatory black lit class
is this a thing in the States?

>>13900563
what would you do for fun in south central la at 1 am

>>13900574
Fuck off or we aren’t letting you back in for a second book Tocqueville

t. nigga who nuked hiroshima just so that they wouldn’t surrender to commies

This is what you get for going to uni wageslave instead of being a military careerist or someone who wisely invests their money while going to trade school so they can support their future career as an author.University has changed so much since the turn of the century that it's basically just an extra general education institution, have fun faggot! lol you thought you'd learn something in university!!! ahaha that's hilarious.

>>13900593
I unironically considered taking up a career in the air force so that I could hold new york hostage with a b-52 but I’m not sure if it would work and I would fail every drug test known to man

>>13900412
>it more just feels like people are shutting down the idea of talking about concepts like white privilege at all.

Sure. It's unclear to me why white people should indulge a concept that's weaponized against them in order to delegitimize their position in society by characterizing what they have as being in some way illegitimate and requiring some historical corrective.

>>13900612
Probably to make us insecure and do dumb shit like race riot when we should be executing jeff bezos and zuckerberg on national tv in a modern day retelling of the life and times of charles I

>>13900589
cope

>>13900626
cringe

>>13900631
cope

>>13900639
Being-and-coping

>>13900647
gigacope

OP here, great discussion, bump for more