/lit/ - Literature

>>14760717
Yes tomorrow the United States of America will sink into the ocean right at its borders and there won't be anything left and all Americans will just blip out of existence a la The Rapture

>>14760717
US culture as we knew it died after 9/11. We just became a huge joke/enemy to the rest of the world based on our reaction and internally the unity and peace we built up in the 90's turned to hate and mistrust. Obama's US almost got us back but there was still so much underlying anger that eventually exploded into what we see now.

>>14760717
Bernie is literally the last chance to save America and democracy

>>14760717

Chris Hedges is both a Christian and a crypto-leftist so he can be dismissed out of hand. He's just upset because he has no real power, and also because he has a ridiculous penis-head and is therefore incapable of ever smiling in a picture.

>>14760752
>>14760761

stupid posts.

For illustration.

>>14760717
Hopefully.

>>14760752
The US keeps sliding from its ignoble start. The Kennedy assassination by the MIC etc.

>>14761453
>crypto-leftist
He’s out about his leftism. Why dismiss him? As a legit journalist he’s been muzzled by corporate media.

>>14760761
Unironically true - by effectively banning border enforcement, de-industrializing the US even more, doubling down on egalitarianism and implementing the latest policies from the Caracas School of Economics, Sanders will fulfill the American Idea. I'm not trolling here - the transexual trust fund anarchist who works for Raytheon while shrieking about privilege and abolishing ICE has understood Democracy In America better than anyone since 1776, it's just that the idea is bad.

>>14760717
Hedges is a dumb Presbyterian. Read Adrian Vermeule instead.

>>14761578
Don't read American Catholic intellectuals, they can't understand the American thought process in almost all cases.

>>14761581
That's because the American Way is vicious and cancerous. The sooner it dies, the better. God bless Trump for hastening its demise.

>>14760717
No, we will endure another 20-30 years of political dysfunction while the boomers die off, but once they're gone we will finally pass social democratic reforms and start to look more like Canada or the UK, which will be an improvement. Undocumented immigrants will be granted amnesty, fair quotas will be set for asylum requests alongside merit based immigration applications, and people of Latin-American descent will become more culturally "white" as time goes on, just like the Italians before them. Criminal justice reform will help to heal black-white relations somewhat, along with broader economic measures such as increasing unionization, workers having a substantial percentage of the vote on company boards, etc. Climate change will cause some problems, mainly flooding in low-lying areas and crop losses, but flooding will be offset with levy construction, which will generate numerous jobs over a period of decades. Crop losses won't be the end of the world for the US because of our massive agricultural surplus and arable land, we can just keep what we make instead of sending it overseas.

So no, things will be fine.

>>14761590
What I mean by this is that Catholic Intellectuals attack the wrong target because they pin everything on "too much Liberty". However, in no way could American leftists be said to uphold the natural right to life, liberty, or property. This is because what they see as "the fruits of Liberty" are really the Extended Civil Rights movement, and I haven't seen any Catholic Intellectuals attack the Civil Rights Movement.

>>14761632
>I haven't seen any Catholic Intellectuals attack the Civil Rights Movement

Wasn't there recently a book that came out saying the Civil Rights Movement was bad? I remember seeing news about it.

>>14760717
Hedges? You got to be kidding me

>>14761459
I read all this guys books in college and I was so blown away that I sent one to my mom. What a faggot I was.

>>14761735
Don't worry, Anon, lots of us had leftist phases when we were undergrads. I know that feel all too well.

>>14761691
Not exactly, there's a book by some guy named Caldwell who argues that the Civil Rights Movement effectively upended the old Constitution, but he wasn't a Catholic, which is what I was getting at - Catholic Intellectuals often have a one track mind where everything is pinned on too much Liberty, Moral Indifference, Secularism, Free Thought, etc.

That might have been relevant in say, France, at some point in history, but it's not now because what we observe in the US isn't characterized by the above phenomena:

>Liberty
Bake the cake, bigot. However if I as a Catholic for some reason went to a Muslim bakery and told him to "Bake the cake, Saracen." it wouldn't go over too well for me in polite society.
>Moral indifference
What if I think (insert beliefs held by most Christians pre-1965) is good? Technically allowed for now, but again, you'll be excluded from polite society. However, if a Muslim holds the same belief - Brave. Stunning. Powerful. They're considered so childlike that it would be mean to judge them for their belief.
>Religious indifference
What if I use my Private Judgement to ascertain the correctness of the Catholic faith and exercise my autonomy by living as such? See above.
>Free Thought
What if I freely conclude that someone isn't a woman after cutting their penis off? There are many other heresies that one can utter, of course.
>Individualism
Using an example from the UK here - imagine being so Individualistic that you don't want to offend the Pakistani Community by bringing up grooming gangs, that would be racist.

If we live in a society that's so "aggressively neutral", "individualistic" or "value pluralist", why are certain groups' morals preferred to others? We don't live in an aggressively neutral secular society characterized by too much freedom, but an extremely religious one characterized by fervent belief in equality, essentially, one that stripped Christianity of all content except "concern for the victim", including the actual belief in God bit - God wasn't very nice to gay people after all! Impressive mental gymnastics are required for this.

>>14761786
I think guys like Vermuele, and recently Sohrab Ahmari, address this well enough. The idea is that Liberalism isn't neutral, it's not a marketplace where ideologies compete. It has its own ideology which has grown and evolved over time and has now become dominant. That's the entire point, I think, of Deneen's book. That Liberalism's claims of neutrality are a sham. It's just as much of an ideology as anything else.

>>14761862
Maybe somewhat, but then you need to attack the underlying ideology (Equality). But I never see Catholic Intellectuals do this.

>>14761727
what's your image implying?
i have not read anything written by your picrelated and have no idea who he is

>>14761883
Baby steps. This critique of Liberalism and its roots is still relatively new. We'll get there sooner or later.

Some of the writers on Thermidor and Social Matter back in the day directly attacked equality, and they were all either Catholic, Orthodox, or High Church Anglican.

>>14761927
so what happened to SM? Most of the blogs that sprouted after moldbug just died off soon after.

>>14761927
It's a lot easier to attack equality than liberty from a logical point of view, imo. However, so much is emotionally tied up in the belief in equality that it doesn't work out this way in practice.

>>14761947
Most of the blogs are gone but some of the personalities are still out there. Some of these guys were less ambitious than others. I assume that sooner or later we'll see the effects of the writing done by places like SM, Thermidor, Jacobite, and the American Sun. Remember, all the poststructuralist, postcolonial, and other French theory things currently at work in the larger culture were confined to the universities for decades. It takes time for ideas to seep into broader culture. Sometimes it takes decades.

>>14761975
thermidork

>>14760752
>Obama's US almost got us back
he is the one creating sjw

>>14761565
youre conflating sanders' platform with neoliberalism

>>14761606
i hope youre right, i really do. hell yes

>>14762056
lol

>>14761750
I'm more embarrassed by my right wing phase. If you're not rich you have no business supporting the right, unless you're European because their right wingers aren't all bought.

>>14761947
At some point most of these types have children and the cost vs benefit of having an online presence that could cost you your home becomes too much. Need a younger generation who is extremely careful about security. Moldbug is the only success story where blogging gets leveraged for a great career. The rest are putting their necks out for fleeting reward

>>14761606

>>14761606

Imagine sincerely believing this shit, nodding sagely along with it.

>>14761565
>deindustrialization
>working for raytheon
>bernie
now you're just retarded

>>14761947
>so what happened to SM? Most of the blogs that sprouted after moldbug just died off soon after.
They split into two sites: The American Sun and Palladium Magazine. Majority of the authors from Social Matter are found on those two sites now. Former is more paleocon and is friendly to BAP-style solutions. Latter is more tech-centric and tries to appeal to post-liberal types.

>>14762292
They all wrote under pseudonyms, right? Why would it matter?

>>14760752
Terrible post, most of all because you assumed the US ever had a culture

>>14761691
>>14761786 is probably the book you're thinking of, but the book "Why Liberalism Failed" by Patrick Deneen is anti-liberal from a Catholic standpoint.

>>14762271
it's the only way butthurt nazis can justify their hatred of a protectionist jew who wants to end virtually all current us military operations. they're really just mad that poor brown people will have access to health care and an education

>>14761606
Italians became “white” (they are still a very distinct group in this country who rarely mixes) because the flow of new immigrants was cut off. Same with Germans and Irishmen, that is not happening with Latin Americans anytime soon.

>>14761606
Imagine just going on the internet and parroting Democratic talking points with confidence, even ironically.

>I can’t have my own thoughts cuz people who say they are similar in their ideology are all bought! I must do the opposite then!
Holy shit go back to r*ddit 90 iqer

>>14762702
Meant for >>14762290

>>14760761
funny

Yeah OP, it's hopeless. You should just cut your losses and make Aliyah right now. You ARE planning to make Aliyah, right?

>>14762855
i don't konw but she was my favorite singer and i was sad wen she died :'(

>>14760717
I'd respect Hedges more if he were a Distributist than a Socialist.

>>14762876
forgive him, he's protestant

something about Hedges gives off JRE guest type vibes

>>14762947
i'm sorry JRE guest is an archetype that you've internalized

>>14762950
It's entirely possible

>>14760717
Hopefully yes

>>14760717
It's more like the earth as a whole and humanity

>>14760752
>Obama's US almost got us back
Even accepting the premise that we need to be accepted by Western European globalists in order to have US culture, it was Obama whose ambassadors were literally caught on tape saying "Fuck the EU". I like how a dark-skinned mick named Hussein kissing your ass once or twice is all it takes to make you compliant, though.

>>14761459
>Possible related search: senior citizen
kek

>>14762543
which one dares to name the Jew and advocates the extermination of all non-whites?

>>14761606
>Climate change will cause some problems

doesn't exist

>>14761927
any links to writers on thermidor?

>>14760761
Not the last chance, but we have to keep supporting candidates like Sanders in order to drive the Democratic party further left so that working class people will vote Democrat again.

>>14763905
But heaven does?

>>14761975
link to SM, Thermidor, american sun? there are too many sites with similar names.

>>14764634
just realized that http://thermidormag.com/ is now defunct. anyone has archive? same thing with social matter

>>14764691
is this the correct archive? https://gioscontentcorner.files.wordpress.com/2019/04/the-thermidor-mag-article-collection.-.pdf

>>14760761
>save democracy

For whom? The US isn't a democracy.

>>14761578
>>14761590
You’re right, the solution is to let in half a billion south americans. Great thinking

>>14764761
The solution is to repent and submit to the Pope, Anon.

>>14764761
What's the matter with South Americans? They're Christian, and we need the population growth because white people don't want to reproduce anymore. I say let them in.

>>14761606
Hilarious, I hope this is bait.
The existing neoliberal order will pass "social democratic" reforms, effectively corporate welfare with one step removed (corporations no longer on the hook for healthcare - let the taxpayer cover that, better for margins). The labor market will continue to be saturated by an infinite pool of third-world labor, and it'll be brought in through illegal immigration to target working-class wages, H1b's to target college graduates with low social capital.
Black-white relations will be continually, intentionally inflamed, and Latinos will do whatever they can not to be grouped as "white," as we see the old New Spanish caste system inverted, everyone trying to be as Mestizo as possible. Identity politics will be employed, as now, to suppress any meaningful political or economic solidarity, and in fact, more identities will be manufactured to this end.
Climate change will dry out the Midwest, and the one element of moderate self-sufficiency we had going for us - food production - will be outsourced to Canada and maybe Russia.

>>14761606
You are either delusional, retarded or both

Yeah, it's over. The US will become just another mongrel narco-state, with yids infesting the carcass.

>>14762616
''education'' is basically a synonym for jewish brainwash.

>>14760752
>Obama's US almost got us back but there was still so much underlying anger that eventually exploded into what we see now.

Obama literally signed a bill that legalized domestic propaganda funded by the government. He was funneling money into hollywood to produce woke bullshit and worked with wallstreet to dump money into woke media outlets under the guise of "investment capital".

>>14765296
>>14763905
>>14762700
>>14762685
>>14762498
>>14762307
None of these posts contain arguments. Is this the power of internet Republicans?

>>14765502
>everything i disagree with is jewish brainwashing

>>14761987
that stuff is pretty fun to read for real

>>14764752
then we reinstate democracy

>>14762700
democrats (ie democratic leadership, politicians, donors, mainstream media figures) don't really support social democratic reforms of that kind because of corruption. these things have to be fought for tooth and nail, but we're definitely going further in that direction regardless

>>14761883
Alasdair Macintyre calls human rights emotivist and a fiction. There's also the whole tradition coming out of de Maistre.

>>14760717
>Fate of Empires - John Glubb

It's a short read and it perfectly explains what is happening and what will happen.

"America" as we know it will cease to exist in like 4-5 years

Republicans if allowed to continued unchecked could destroy the planet. They are willfully ignorant fools who hold science and reason in contempt. The Democrats are only marginally better, but at least they acknowledge certain facts and are less prone (but not totally resistant to) fanciful conspiracy theories.
Is America finished? It is too big to fail. The world depends on the American economy. If it falls, so does the rest of the global capitalist system. Capitalism's fate is intimately entwined with the fate of America.

>>14766576
>Democrats dont believe in fanciful conspiracies
russia?
white nationalism as a real threat?
institutional racism?
global warming?

democrats have far more ideological baggage than any republican.

>>14766576
>are less prone (but not totally resistant to) fanciful conspiracy theories.
hahahaha yeah the last three years of russophobic hysteria really supports this case

>>14766715
>global warming?
good job retard you almost had a point

>>14766576
It's inwardly rotten, from top to bottom. Unnatural, broken… having strayed too far from what it may have stood for as a culture or people. It won't fall overnight, sure. It will simply continue its downward trajectory more slowly and painfully—unless something drastically changes in terms of broader political leadership. "Left" or "right" isn't going to cut it anymore. Fundamental change is needed that, in itself, could lead to more turmoil. If the right personalities are there it might go more smoothly, however. It's a mess… still, nothing good lasts forever. America is owed nothing, the world is owed nothing. Science and reason do have their roles, but the "I fucking love science!" types crying about Russia aren't going to solve anything. They're just as pumped full of CNN propaganda as any boomers are with Fox. Exceptionally visionary statemanship is needed to steer America through the ravages of time.

i guess we can relax, everyone, piero scaruffi, as always, has the answer

https://www.scaruffi.com/politics/usa20.html#usa0220

>>14762549

I assume the above thread of discussion is referring to some particular alt-right related blog, though I'm unfamiliar with whatever SM is, sounds vaguely ecclesiastical. Your stuff catches up with you, in spite of your best efforts. Roissy's real name came out and his thing was axed. I read multiple alt-right blogs (Mangan's, Foseti, Roissy, The Spearhead) circa 2010-2014 or so and noticed that several of them quietly stopped updating. Same pattern, same idea. Maybe some of them have started up again but I've moved on. I was never fond of Moldbug's prose style, the little I read of it, the constant nerd referencing to sci-fi lit, or something.

Lion of the Blogosphere is still a good read occasionally, but he's a New York kike which significantly reduces the pleasure one can derive from reading his often-nevertheless-true observations.

>>14761453
As a leftist individual I find your comment concerning. Hedges is a legitimate journalist.

Quim quiff.

>>14766549
We're basically in our Late Republican period, right? Comparable to when Rome's Republic fell. The years of social strife are upon us and we'll be a monarchy within a century.

At least if we REALLY follow Rome's footsteps we'll have at least another century of global dominance once our Augustus arrives.

inb4 someone tries to tell me that Lincoln/FDR/etc. was our Augustus. It's not the same and you know it.

>>14767205
Your new favorite words

*quiffs loudly*

>>14761453
>crypto
you are braindead