/lit/ - Literature

>>15124504
>why does [group x] betray espoused logic in the name of audience appeal?

>>15124504
>>>/pol/

intersecionality is the game of words they play
but on the practical side they only see 2 kinds: up (whites) and down (everyone else)

Because historically blacks have been the most fucked over people so it only makes sense for them to let them het back on their feet. Whites usually go about their lives without having any problem or at the very least they have kiddie problems. blacks and everyone else around the globe usually have it 10x worse. Basically white nationalists have the biggest victim complex.

she's Hispanic, dipshit

First define what black and white culture are

>>15124554
I think OP means she's the leftist part of the question.

>>15124545
>historically blacks have been the most fucked over people
Lol, are you retarded? Not even close you dumb nigger. Also, who sold the black slaves to Americans? Lmao

>>15124545
>historically
>10x
>basically
you have to go back

>>15124536
This.

But also, it's fine to have a proud Polish, Irish, Italian, German, Russian, Swedish etc. identity. White identity is a false construct.

The same would be true for black identity, except that most black people have no idea where their ancestry is from because of slavery. Because of slavery, they also can't really connect with that history - they could be from anywhere, from Senegal down to Angola. Black identity is in part about reclaiming pride and self-respect, after having that stripped from them.

>>15124545
What you mean to say is that the percentage of whites that have problems is lower than the percentage of blacks that do. To characterize all suffering that white people endure as 'kiddie problems' is extremely childish itself.

Not literature.

>>15124504
name a single leftist saying that

>>15124542
This is why they use two words to separate whites and all else.
One is either an oppressor white or an oppressed person of color.

>>15124570
>>15124573
How are you enjoying shitposting on your phone under your bed covers in your mom's house?

>>15124610
>How are you enjoying shitposting on your phone under your bed covers
It's fantastic, I'm cozy as hell.
>in your mom's house?
My house, but close enough.

>>15124610
who doesn't shitpost like this

>>15124610
How are you enjoying being a nigger? lmao

>>15124577
Nah, black identity is being purposefully fucked into the dirt to help drag other identities down with it. You can look back and find black communities starting to develop their own culture after the civil war, but then you have forced integration of schools, all the black nationalist leaders get killed or turned into feds, and their music is co-opted and twisted by record labels.

>>15124648
It's not even "black identity", just African American identity. Blacks elsewhere have a different culture.

>>15124545
/pol/tards seethe, but this guy is absolutely correct.

>>15124504
"whiteness" is not an identity, it is the absence of or exemption from racialisation. "white priviledge" is simply a state of neutrality that has been historically denied to people of colour. You don't have an "advantage", you don't have all the additional disadvantages of being identified as black. Black people need to affirm "blackness" as a positive construct because for so long the narrative has framed them in a negative light.

>>15124676
They haven't been the most fuck over people in history.

>>15124676
His very first sentence is wrong lol

>>15124677
"people of colour" is a meme as well. all people are of a colour.

>>15124688
if you count being fucked over by their own dysfunction they are

>>15124677
This is close. There are many layers to identity and what does and does not constitute it, as well as many dimensions to your racial culture. It isn't that whiteness is not an identity, it's that it's the default identity. There is no "white" there is simply "American" or "human" or "person". Yes that is incredibly racist, but that's what you're doing in this reactive "oh but whites aren't oppressed!" nonsense, you're allowing racist values made by racists to form the logic of the world.

>>15124710
kek

>>15124702
So true.

>>15124702
white is not a color

>>15124677
Well you certainly have a disadvantage when applying to Universities in the US.

>>15124753
Neither is black, but our skin tones are not really white or black are they?

>thread about books
10 replies at most before it dies
>/pol/ thread
50 replies an hour
Can you people just leave? I remember when this board was slow and comfy and it would take days before a thread dies and the replies were more substantial. Just make your thread on the politics board.

>>15124593
Literally all leftists that I met praise foreign cultures/identities, but they despise anything that is european because 'muh wh*te people ebil'.

>>15124781
>Literally all leftists that I met
Were you not introduced?

>>15124545
Explain this

>>15124753
>white is not a color
Do you even know the definition of color? Retard.

>>15124753
"White" is just a colour code. "White" people are not actually white white, just pale. And some are pink, tanned, olive-skinned, etc.

Americans fucking love their black people for some reason, and have always been a bunch of anal puritanical freaks about race. Of course the same country that invents interracial cuckholding and the Lynch Mob is going to invent a brand of “leftism” that boils down to fat genetic refuse bitching about race- “only this time we da good guys”. Lefties don’t care about logic, they care about saying the right combination of banalities to contribute to their lame circlejerk while they do drugs with “authentic” blacks and latinos.

>>15124788
What do you mean?

>>15124791
I am from that specific Slavic population and WE DON'T CONSIDER OURSELVES WHITE, at lest not in general. It's weird. Those Germanised fascist nationalist types might (who are descended from or trying to ape the European traders), we're darker than the typical Germanic fucker, some of us are North African dark, I would consider Sowell to be whiter because he looks like he has the kind of skin that gets sunburn.

>>15124818
You were asked to name a single one and went on a rant about how you met all these people, yet you did not catch a single name? WERE YOU NOT INTRODUCED???

Most people touting "white identity" are unironic nazis. Its the intention behind that matters

>>15124862
Then what the fuck are you supposed to be? How the fuck you consider Sowell whiter than slavs? Unless you are churka there is no way that your are non-white

>>15124862
>Sowell whiter than slavs
Enough /lit/ for me

>>15124504
From my experience, leftists don't like it when Middle Easterners want to keep their racial or ethnic identities either. For example, they don't like it when an Assyrian or Persian tries to distinguish themselves from Arabs. I've had one lecture me on "petty tribal differences", and afterwards, he just called us all brown people, though not in an overtly insulting way light white supremacists.
In my view, leftists are way worse than the far right. Kaczynski did a good job touching on this stuff.

>>15124873
Why the fuck would you like to know the names? How is that relevant? You want me to make a list of famous leftists that praised foreign cultures, despised european culture and preached white genocide? if that is the case I will do it.

>>15124884
>churka
Well, I will say your lot were famously called white when they came over here in exile.

I tend to go with olive skinned for you white/black idiots, but we don't care that much and our culture did not grow around having a bunch of whoevers fresh in from Africa or wherever. To top it off you all go on about white privilege and white mans guilt, DO YOU KNOW HOW MANY FUCKING OPPRESSORS WE'VE HAD TO ASSASSINATE OR KILL OVER THE LAST MILLENIUM?? And then to be told we've either got to share in or vindicate the guilt of the Anglos or Francos or whatever depending on the political agenda of some stupid foreigner.

>>15124912
Those aren't leftists, just liberals.

>>15124938
Then yes, please do it. I am enjoying your stalling though so by all means do that for a bit too.

>>15124954
Stop being a faggot and deal with it.
Take the black pill and stare in to the abyss, there is nothing else.

>>15124504
How many are those white pride people are just simply interested in the culture and how many of them are just /pol/tards trying to stir up shit? Its like that "its ok to be white" shit they were forcing

>>15124577
if identities are social construction why then can't white identity be another valid artificial construction of identity? you're retarded like every leftist

>>15125242
>Stop being a faggot and deal with it.
I have nothing to deal with, it's you shitting your pants about white and black.

>>15124636
Why would this mean anything if he was wrong? You’re only proving him right by using that word to insult him.

>>15124577
Slavs, Italians and spanish people aren’t white though, that’s why the concept is flawed from the beginning.
Next come the greek with their we wuz nords n shit propaganda

>>15125303
>silly banter on /lit/ makes blacks the most fucked over people in history

>>15125355
Depends on how you define "white", because they're definitely Caucasian and quite varied.

Race is indeed a social construct, but it's also something used to inflict real harm upon people. If all black people decided to stop talking about being black, that would not change how whites perceive them.

>>15125373
If you think brown hair and eyes and dark tan are white

>>15125388
Italians and arabs are considered white in the us

>race is not real
>fuck white people

How do they deal with the cognitive dissonance

>>15125406
fuck white people

>>15125388
that wouldn't change you blacks perceive whites either, or however any race perceives any other race
this bullshit idpol garbage used to be laughed at but suddenly twitter came about and suddenly everyone has something to say about muh racism like people need to be coddled and catalogued according to their skin

>>15125389
Again, that depends on what "white" even means to you. It's a vague term, while Caucasian is a more solid definition.

>>15124688
Watch how I derail this thread:
Jews are.

>>15124964
Noel Ignatiev,Tim Wise,Susan Sontag, Stalin,Antonio Gramsci,Horkheimer,Adorno,Herbert ,Marcuse,Franz Boas,Israel Ehrenberg (aka Ashley Montagu),Richard Lewontin,Stephen Jay Gould

>>15124504
why is she such a shameless whore

>>15125484
I would say that Jews and blacks have been fucked over but only Jews had the intelligence and balls to get on top of it all meanwhile blacks are still at the bottom.

>>15125488
>Antonio Gramsci
I mean if you don't consider him white...

>>15124545
Let's be real, blacks are fucking sub-human and should be treated like slaves. Slavery is pretty much the only time in history they haven't been fucking worthless.

>>15125522
>Let's be real
Not, let's be virtual. We are on the internet.

>>15124504
I'm too drunk for your bullshit. I'd ask you to come back later, but fuck it. Just go away.

>>15125388
Race is real moron. If you think that human subspecies are not real then you are retarded. There is more than enough evidence that proves that race is real like: intelligence, shape of skull, blood type, allergies, muscular structure, skin color, genetic conditions, eye color, diseases resistance, physical strength, height, phenotypes/genotypes, etc.
>inb4: muh we humans share 99% of our DNA, that means race isn't real
We humans share as well 98.6% of our DNA with Chimpanzees, that means they are humans as well?

>>15125563
>Race is real

>>15125563
there are differences even among "races"

>>15125577
Not a single argument.

>>15125563
>inb4: muh we humans share 99% of our DNA
It's 99.9%

>>15125592
>I don't even know basic children's literature and am posting on the literature board for some reason

>>15124862

You are more white than anything else. Fuck off with your bullshit.

>>15125598
I know that is 99.9%. I didn't want to be redudant with this one

>>15124912

They just want to replace ethnic identities with racial ones.

>>15124702
Yeah, you're right, people of colour is a retarded term, but you've gotta mix it up every now and again. Can't just say "black" when I'm talking about ethnic minorities in general (though I probably should've just said that instead)

>>15124727
>It isn't that whiteness is not an identity, it's that it's the default identity.
Yeah I never explicitly said that whiteness was the "lack" of an identity, just the lack of racialisation, which I would argue is different. This is why I described blackness as a construct, in that the negative connotations associated with it have nothing to do with the identity itself, it is an overcoding of black identity with negative signification from the outside. I'm not saying whites aren't oppressed, just that "whiteness" itself denotes an absence of all the negative connotations that are foisted onto the perception of black identity. They're just as susceptible to other forms of oppression and discrimination as any other race, they just don't have to deal with that additional scrutiny.

>>15124763
You mean white people? I'm british, but here there is actually a huge lack of white working-class representation in universities, in fact it is the biggest underrepresented group in higher education. So, believe it or not, there are scholarships that are tied to social and economic position, as well as scholarships that are intended to get more ethnic minority groups into education as well. But I think it would be very interesting to know why working-class whites are so put off by the idea of university, I can't say I've seen a study that looks into it.

>>15125616
1<<16

>>15125607
What the fuck has Alice in Wonderland has to do with race? You didn't refute any of my arguments.

>>15125611
Ok dimitry Gonzalez

>>15124504
I don't understand the question, what is the racial identity you are not allowed to keep? Conservatives have this odd habit of hinting vaguely at hypocricy without making any arguments.

>>15124504
The best criticism of this is actually from the left; a consistent left critique looks past racial images in the forms of essentialism on any and all sides and instead, on a Marxist critique say, to class interests shared by all racial groups.

>Left
Which portion of the left? you cannot be so broad here.
>the right is stupid on purpose and doesn't believe in academy or even science
is this a fair summation of conservative thought?

>>15125611
>never heard of lebensraum
Read a history book sometimes

It’s not about preserving identity. Everyone knows this.

>>15125634
>what the fuck has a race in Alice in Wonderland to do with race
>a caucus race
>clearly referencing evolution and extinction and mocking that Victorian idea of race

>>15125653
>is this a fair summation of conservative thought?
In America, sure

>>15125629
Not an argument. Give me evidence that contradicts any of my claims. 99.9% of humans share the same DNA and yet that small percent is a huge difference. We are only different to chimpanzees by 1.3% and we are obviously a complete different species.

>>15125677
>99.9% of humans share the same DNA and yet that small percent is a huge difference.
Actually begging the question.

>>15125625
>But I think it would be very interesting to know why working-class whites are so put off by the idea of university
It is a mystery we may never unravel.

>>15124504
Why won't AOC give my dick a break? It's worn out.

>>15125670
Pretentious pseud. Give me scientific evidence of race. A children's fantasy book does not count as scientific evidence. Can you really refute my arguments with empirical evidence?

>>15125687
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/01/080118165005.htm

>>15125688
Sure we can speculate about potential anti-white bias and heavy scrutiny that whites might feel, particularly in schools where they are constantly being told to "check their priv" or whatever, but I'd be more curious to have some substantial research on the subject. I think the more telling part here would be the LACK of research on this subject (but then again, that could just be my own ignorance).

>>15125697
Why do you think doctors put out messages asking that various races donate organs because there is a shortage?

>>15124504
Because of bioleninism / High and Low vs Middle.
Every other explanation is a commie psyop.

>>15125709
Begging the question and a non-sequitur.

>>15125713
Good luck funding a study about discrimination against white people lol. In the US there was no coverage whatsoever until Asians started complaining about having the same quotas applied to them in University admissions(actually even a bit worse than whites since they score higher on average).

>>15125729
It's actually way worse. The first colleges that did away with affirmative action (I think the University of Chicago was one) instantly became dominated by Asian students.

Mindy Kaling has a conservative brother, and he actually wrote a book about passing as a black man to get into colleges (he's a very dark Indian). Idk if it's any good or not.

>>15125714
That is ironic. I barely heard of that. Give me evidence. Even though is perfectly possible to donate organs for different races the problem with inter-race donation is that the majority of people in different races have different blood and tissue types. This can lead to complications

>>15125724
This.

>>15125755
How is that "worse"? That's an organic reaction vs. racial quota keeping people out.

If blacks can make it into the universities and manage to dominate it ORGANICALLY then there's no issue. Systematic discrimination is the issue, i.e. AA.

>>15125755
>Mindy Kaling has a conservative brother, and he actually wrote a book about passing as a black man to get into colleges (he's a very dark Indian). Idk if it's any good or not.
kek absolute state of America

>>15125726
What the fuck you want me to explain? Please elaborate. Don't give me ambiguous questions and go straight into the point. Give me your premise/argument.

>>15125406
If whites aren't okay with getting genocided then that's racist, muffugga. White = racism.

>>15125755
I forget what school it was, maybe Berkeley? Idk one of them lifted all race considerations and it ended up being like 55% Asian and pretty much everyone else was white.

>>15125808
I love how the left likes to manipulate and use the language to fit their own narrative.

>>15124577
>>15124677
>>15125355
Wrong. You're all retards. 'Whiteness' is short-hand for describing the European genetic cluster (which absolutely includes Slavs, Italians and Spaniards you fuckwit). It's a way of acknowledging that there exist groupings of ethnicities which are more genetically similar to eachother than to other populations. The same applies to 'Blackness', a very diverse cluster of ethnicities (would be moreso if Bantus hadn't practically exterminated the Khoisan). A simple morphological comparison would help slave descendants narrow down their likely ancestry, and if they're really concerned they can purchase a genetic test instead of fly kicks or an ounce of weed.

No one is exempt from human biodiversity. If blacks really want 'neutrality', they should go back Africa and live with people like them. If they want to live decent lives in white nations, then they should 1) admit that they're different and start acccepting responsibility for themselves 2) think twice about subverting/attacking whites, because once the West is predominantly hispanic & south-asian their guilt tactics will be useless and they will experience true systemic discrimination/marginalization.

>>15125921
>white supremacist
>calling others retards
KEK

>>15125932
nah, he's right on the money and I'm not even white.

>>15125763
>give me scientific evidence of race
>different races have different blood and tissue types
You're trolling, right?

>>15124570
The British for awhile. Other Europeans too.

>>15125947
"He"'s wrong. It's a standard idiot's misreading of basic research.

>>15125921
>mistaking the map for the territory
God job buddy. While everyone else is talking about race as a conceptual category, you came bouldering in with your hot /sci/ takes about biodiversity. No one gives a shit man, the genetic differences are so fucking marginal and inconsequential that talking about "race" in terms of actual biology is always a classic indicator of a midwit.

>>15125254
>forcing

>>15125921
"Whiteness" is an ideology, it's not literally about the skin color you imbecile.

>>15125921
'black' as a category really should not include the Khoisan you mention, the rest of the Bushmen, and the Pygmies. It is totally indefensible to group them with Bantus, etc. who are more similar genetically to Eurasians than they are to the former. Even then the Bantu and the Nilotic and other Subsaharan races should really be distinguished from each other as well, though that is more arbitrary.

White as a classification has issues as well. All along the outskirts of Europe you have populations who have had quite a lot of admixture from outside. Not to mention that White Europeans are not that old a group, the result of Indo-Europeans conquering and mixing with various races that existed in Europe before them. I can understand taking Ireland to Russia down to Greece and over to Spain as being a sort of 'thing', culturally and somewhat in appearance, but you run into real problems at the edges. If you look at any genetic map of Europe it is a clusterfuck of overlapping ancestries without clear demarcations that bleeds into the surrounding regions. In practice people do know what you mean most of the time, the entire world agree that Hans and Nigel are white, but the category itself has all the issues that fuzzy categories always have.

>>15125970
What the fuck is your point? I am literally saying that race is real and there are differences between human races. These differences include: skull shape, height, predisposition to certain genetic conditions, allergies, blood types, tissue type, etc. It is accepted that these differences are real.

>>15125999
By what standard are the genetic differences marginal and inconsequential? Are you one of those 'genetic diversity is only skin deep types', or perhaps the 'evolution stops at the neck' variety? Oh no wait, you're the 'speciation doesn't apply to humans' kind of anon.

Either way, you're an idiot and a liar and the evidence doesn't support you. Plenty of people give a shit 'man', it's mostly just whites who are being aggresively conditioned not to.