/lit/ - Literature

>>15143273
Read Marx. We're on a board about books, fucking read some.

>>15143273
I shop at wholefoods, drink starbucks, have a credit card, and own an iphone, and i work a minimum wage job.

>>15143318
Cool.

>>15143382
i know you are, but what am i? im also cool, we can both be cool together

>>15143273
>two sides of the same coin
Occasionally. But not all neets are leftists.

> they both believe they are entitled to a comfortable life
You don’t know anything about leftism, much less why the world is in misery.

>>15143307
This. Fucking read.

>>15143307
Already did, The issue with making comparisons between Karl Marx’s works and today’s world is that so much has changed in the world sense the 1850s. I believe so much of the worlds industry’s will be automated in a way that people back then couldn’t even fathomed. Marx himself talked about how the industrial revolution changed mankind, but how has the second and third industrial revolutions change it further? How do you create a workers utopia if there are no human workers?

>>15143435
I remember my time in panama really changed my outlook on like. People live in concrete houses, they build them by hand with hammers and chisels. I stayed at my uncles wife’s parents place. Nice enough people but they lived in a fortified compound, surrounded by six foot tall concrete walls with barbed wire at the top. Her family are fairly rich (for Panamanian standards) but their crooks, they’re involved in lone sharing and I suspect money laundering to, and its not a secret, they tell everyone. I remember when my uncle got pulled over by the cops for speeding he just handed them his wallet with like 60$ and they took the money and told him to have a nice day. His wife then chewed his as about it because she said he gave them to much money, your only supposed to give them 20$.

I knew stuff like this happened in poorer communities but I always thought it was out of pure depression, but nobody gave a shit. To them, it’s just how things are, the housemaids would steal so you just look up all your valuables. I thought that people would try to make life better for themselves but nobody cares, just as long as they can buy beer with their welfare checks they are contempt.

>>15143273
Neet since 2010 here.
I never considered myself more than a useless piece of shit.
I never go outside, don't care about anything really.
Just wanna watch the world burn and then dying laughing my ass off.
I am a monster of a first world country.
Literally a Demon.

>>15143605
Stop LARPing.

I hate government and mass homogenization which is why I'm an anarcho communist. I don't really care about political binaries, but in essence what I believe in is anarcho communism

>>15143596
Such is the world ruled by accumulative currency and gangster statism. Systemically rotting generations, world ‘round

>>15143632
Good. Have you read Bookchin yet?

>>15143645
I'll check it out

>>15143631
I’ve lived in a shithole once, homeless would beg you for money as soon as you come out of Macdonald’s, I would offer them food and work and they’ed Just get pissed at me. They would steal amazon packages of your porch and they sleep in every public park. Literally every park had at least one homeless person sleeping in it, there were used needles in the park were kids used to play. How does socialism help these people? You just give them money and they spend it on drugs, your not getting anything out of them unless you’re the one selling them drugs. I guess you could jut legalize the drugs and taxes them but then your feeding a system of perpetual self degradation.

>>15143273
You do know in socialism and anarcho-communism you still have to work right. In Socialism, everybody has an obligation to work.

>>15143273

> Really, something I’ve noticed is that NEETs and Socialists are really rather similar: they both believe they are entitled to a comfortable life, that all of their’s and the world’s misery are someone else’s fault. I believe that it is actually tied more to the human existentialism “crisis” that is happening in first world countries in the quarter of this century. Perhaps it has to do with an inherent lack of ‘purpose’ or objective self value.

In feudalism, it worked for a thousand years. everyone had a job and had a decent existence ignoring the fact it was still private property.

In capitalism, the bourgeoisie, who replaced the traditional aristocracy, have destroyed the planet in 200 years.

The boomer assumption you make that blame is on the fault of a single individual, is part of the same liberal/liberterian paradigm libtard

>>15143725
>>15143724
What If someone doesn’t like the job they’re given? Are some of us destined to be toilet cleaners and others CEOs? And who gets to decide that?

>>15143741
People have never been assigned jobs in a socialist society aside from intellectuals who made to do menial jobs in Maoist China so they didn't become detached from the working class.

>>15143724
>>15143725
I guess what I’m saying is are you contempt with your current occupation, would you mind doing it for the rest of your life? What if you have to become a janitor or a grocery store clerk because it’s for the greater good? And what if you have to suddenly live in a smaller residents. Do you get to decide these things or does someone else, and what are the restrictions?

>>15143788
Maoism implements mass line, which is where you go to the proletariat, ask them what they want, form a plan, bring it back to them, and if they like it, implement it. But the fact is, unless you're middle or upper class you don't have much of choice over what your occupation is in or if you even get one in capitalism anyway, its whatever the capitalists give you.

>>15143761
My sister brought this home from her college-funded trip to China, this is mao’s “red book” it was distributed to the masses and everyone cared it when he was chairman. Now, they sell it to foreigners tor 5$

>>15143852
Which is why Mao should have killed Deng when he had the chance.

>>15143825
Were did it all go wrong, after mao’s death his rival started to disown him. I bet he is rolling in his grave right now, if he were to see that American tourist are BUYING his book as a “Souvenir.”

>>15143741

>socialism
>a system without private property
>ceos

>>15143761

No they do assign jobs to people and since education is nationalized you can get any kinda job if you put your mind to it.

>>15143788

You can change your job in both capitalism and socialism., but in capitalism a lot of bullshit is created by the ruling class in order to solidfy the class structures(the debt in current colleges). In essence the neoliberal economic system we live in is turning to neofeudalist ideology but this time you don't have your needs met by it. You work longer, and it's destroying the Earth as we speak.

>>15143904
I think I’m confused, I thought anarcho-communism was a neoliberal ideology. That’s certainly what Ancaps think anyway.

>>15143463
How did the bourgeoisie take over the feudal landlords?

>>15143923

it is neoliberal but not for its property relations. its neoliberal because its an individualist ideology. It puts everything on the individualist level and ignores how people's actions bounce off of each other and it ignores structual conditions. Ancap/liberterians have similar problems meaning that their ideologies are impotent to the current condition we live in. It's not a surprise that many ancoms today ignore the topic of the dynamics of classes.

Proper socialism while it's endgoal is to construct a society where people are more free to self actualize themselves in terms of labor, is a collectivist ideology that stresses looking at history and looking at the big picture.

>>15143923
Anarcho-Communism has nothing do with neo-liberalism.

>>15143904
No they don't "assign" jobs in the way he means.

>>15143904
Your literally retarded, the Jews who run college are spoonfeeding you that “mu ancom” bullshit and you fucking dumb enough to pay for an education in something that’s getting you nowhere in life shitposting your retardation for everyone to see

>>15143923
It is a neoliberal ideology, they like to think it’s counterculture but they’re just glowfags. They are literally pawns of the same system they think they are fighting, just look at how well there “revolution” is working for them. They idealized dead leaders whose governments collapsed into capitalist nations after they and their cult of personalities died.

>>15143877
Yah, it all would’ve been great except for that one guy he didn’t kill, apparently killing 3 million of your own people wasn’t enough to stop you friends from turning on the the second your heart stops beating. Set such is the nature of communist I suppose.

>>15144017

> Your literally retarded, the Jews who run college are spoonfeeding you that “mu ancom” bullshit and you fucking dumb enough to pay for an education in something that’s getting you nowhere in life shitposting your retardation for everyone to see

i havent been to college

>>15144017
They weren't "killed", the cultural revolution was basically a war. So they weren't their own people, they were enemies.

stfu keyboard communists. Deng Xiaoping is based and a valid application of socialist theory.

>>15143963
Aren’t all human ideologies inherently somewhat collectivist? Humans form societies because we evolved from pack animals. An ideology is only as strong as the number of people who believe in it. Just as a Society is only as large as the people who consider themselves a part of it.

bros, is it just me or is /leftypol/ down?

>>15143273
>they both believe they are entitled to comfort
Not entitled to, and not comfort, but some of us have deep resentment towards, and have no respect for, anyone or any group insofar as it pollutes water to the point that fish are toxic and it's unsafe to drink without filtration, destroys ecosystems, and encourages or facilitates immigration into white territories from culturally and genetically damaging or incompatible territories, while constantly stripping us of ways to defend ourselves or reverse trends

The damage they've caused and are causing railroads us into a life of codependency that's unnatural, ugly and unfulfilling, and we don't consent

>>15144041
This is fundamentally fallacious and is a favorite argument of the revisionist. Sadly it fails because the USSR and China were already socialist when they reimplemented capitalism, so why would it need to go BACK to capitalism to get to socialism.

>>15144121
developing productive forces is never a backward step. nice try, utopianoid

>>15143457
Yes, it’s obvious to anyone who isn’t mentally retarded that its hypocritical to criticise a company like that if using their products when you could use something else

>>15144136
durrrrr

>>15144135
It is if you reintroduce private property and turn into a capitalist imperialist state. You do realise China is going to need another revolution now right?

>>15144171
Producing measurable objective improvements is not backwards by definition. All you anti-dengists are utopian socialists in denial.

>>15144029
Wow you responded to that quick, i guess you’ve got nothing better to do than argue with fagots on the internet, some proletariat revolution your a part of.

>>15144030
This, commies say everyone matters, they then proceed to kill shit tons of people. Literally every commie Regime is guilt of this and when you point it out they go “but capitalism kills more people!” Like that somehow justifies there right to murder anyone who has more than them.

>>15144136
>its hypocritical to criticise a company like that if using their products when you could use something else
No it's not. It may be a sign of weakness to buy and use the product, but it isn't hypocritical to criticize the producer of anything you use

>>15143318
>and one day, I'll be a millionaire

>>15144214
i don't want to be a millionaire. i work my job because i like it.

>>15144190
Measurable objective improvements for the middle and capitalist class while your workers get suicide nets. Also, much of China's "improvements" have come from predatory loans and looting Africa. China isn't even proletarian internationalist, it frequently sides with capitalists. They're selling the fucking Duerte regime guns to use to kill Philippine communists.

>>15144192
I don't feel guilty of the cultural revolution, they obviously kill enough of the enemy looking at China now.

>>15143318
This is a bigger cope than joe sixpack buying a lotto ticket at the Kroger. He is desperate. You are delusional.

>>15143725
>In feudalism everyone had a job

>>15144222
>Measurable objective improvements for the middle and capitalist class
and for the workers.
>suicide nets
nothing wrong with that. jumping off a building in public is antisocial and cringe
>Also, much of China's "improvements" have come from predatory loans and looting Africa.
wrong. they're building up an developing africa, unlike imperialists who kept the third world underveloped on purpose. china is playing win-win.
>China isn't even proletarian internationalist
this is true, and one of the genuine faults of china. i don't worship them, but i respect their achievements
>They're selling the fucking Duerte regime guns to use to kill Philippine communists.
i don't condone that

>>15144233
what are you talking about? i have no idea what you're trying to read into my post. what the fuck is joe sixpack?

>>15144120
Based transcendentalist

>>15144222
You don't even know the most basic facts about China. Educate yourself
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ff_ZkwJmfWQ

>>15144246
>and for the workers.
No. In simple terms maybe, but whatever "benefit" they're getting is coming at the expense of African workers. Also, their exploitation has been ramped up significantly. And they're not building up Africa, if they were they would be sending capital to Africa unconditionally for them to own. Instead, they're exporting capital while retain control over it, which is imperialism and is no different what any other capitalist country does.

>>15144268
Caleb Maupin is a tool.

>>15144268
I love the cope of these losers trying to say that mao’s China is better than modern China. They are literally bedroom dwelling Americans that can’t expect that their idols are dead and now capitalist China is going to rule the 21st century.

>>15144297
Man, you utopianoids have no grasp of how the real world works, it's sad. You literally live in a fantasy where you can make up whatever you want and call it "facts". How am I suppose to argue with someone who just makes up whatever is convenient for himself?

>>15144319
China is not capitalist. They are socialist transitional state with a market sector. But you are correct, otherwise.

>>15144320
You're using utopian in the wrong way. Utopian Socialism means going off and trying to start communes under capitalism. I am in no way arguing for "utopianism" in the sense you're using it, your the utopian because you think everything is hunkey dorey and that a country can call itself socialist while having billionaires.

>>15144041
>Based Deng Xiaopingposter

>>15144341
I don't think everything is hunkey dorey, I think things are improving (which is a dynamic, transitional, and relative term), whereas I'm sure the fantasy version of socialism that exists in your head is much better, but unfortunately it isn't real.
>>15144345
>that pic
false dichotomy, deng and mao are both based

>>15144364
They are improving, they are getting worse and even though China be soon to have its heyday, its going to suffer from the exact same contradictions of capitalists that ultimately will bring down the USA.

>>15144387
Again, just making stuff up off the top of your head.

Really, something I’ve noticed is that NEETs and the right wing are really rather similar: they both believe they are entitled to a comfortable life, that all of their’s and the world’s misery are someone else’s fault (women, Jews, minorities, immigrants). I believe that it is actually tied more to the human existentialism “crisis” that is happening in first world countries in the quarter of this century. Perhaps it has to do with an inherent lack of ‘purpose’ or objective self value.

>>15144345
Fuck you, Winnie the Pooh is best present!

>>15144417
Confirmed jewposter

>>15144393
No I'm not. China is already seeing a lot of civil unrest and workers striking, both Chinese workers and African ones, the latter of whom they shoot.

>>15143273
NEETs leave others in peace
Leftists do not

>>15144453
lol ok guy

>>15144268
Can I have a second opinion on this lecture? Is it accurate? Is it neutral or does it lean towards a particular view? If so, what view?

>>15144602
It's view is explicitly pro-China, which is not a bad thing. You get enough anti-China in Western media, maybe try something different for a change

>>15144607
I'm all for pro-China, I was actually afraid it would be anti-China seeing that it was a young chinese immigrant who was giving the lecture. Those tend to be america-lovers and know little of their mother land.

>>15144657
no, he is not anti-china at all. it's a good lecture

>>15144268
>socialism with chinese characteristics
you are the dumbest fuckers ever to not actually be mentally disabled

>>15144246
>nothing wrong with that. jumping off a building in public is antisocial and cringe
how much of an oversocialized bugman can you be

>>15144679
im not against suicide, but doing it in a way that other people need to clean up your corpse from the sidewalk is cringe

>>15144695
The fact that you are even thinking about whether a suicide is cringe or not is pathetic

Neethood is aristocratic. Work Ethic = Slave Morality

>>15144742
oh whatever, you vague retard. where are you even going with this?

>>15144253
I'm not reading anything beside that which was stated, which was, someone making minimum wage drinking coffee can't afford and shopping for groceries at the worst bang for your buck location. The only explanation for this is that you were severely coping and the fact that you are seething right now proves it. Who is joe sixpack? He's an idiot that also throws his money away but is under no illustrious pretense about his lot in life.

>>15144246
>wrong. they're building up an developing africa, unlike imperialists who kept the third world underveloped on purpose. china is playing win-win.
Everyone says this but is it actually true? Isn't that just another form of imperialism? They are still exerting their power over smaller countries and invading their sovereignty. Sure, they aren't using military power, but it's still economic imperialism. It isn't win-win. Smaller countries are still subordinated to China, they don't see each other eye to eye. They are still selling the empty promise of 'developing'. The whole developed/underdeveloped rhetoric is flawed and should be dropped by anyone who calls themselves anti-imperialist (as we are assuming China to be). There is no development to be had from an 'underdeveloped' country. Being a 'developed' country only means having a local system of underdeveloped neighboring countries that are subjected to you.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dependency_theory

>>15144802
>drinking coffee can't afford
it's two bucks lmao
>shopping for groceries at the worst bang for your buck location
it's the closest one to me i don't want to take two buses to go shopping
>The only explanation for this
the only one that occurs to YOU, which just says something about you
>is under no illustrious pretense about his lot in life.
neither am i, i enjoy my lot in life

>>15144811
In other words, the promise of developing is empty because it isn't feasible to achieve a state where all countries are developed. At best, some that now are underdeveloped will become developed and some that now are developed will become underdeveloped, but they presuppose each other and there can't be no development on one side without underdevelopment on the other. Ergo, it's still imperialism.

>>15144811
Your speaking abstractly. Nothing you wrote has any connection to real life. The benefits of development are very real for the third world which is used to being at the mercy of imperialistic powers like US, France, or UK. China is doing the opposite of imperialism, by building up infrastructure and productive forces in the countries they do business in. You're just speaking hypothetically "what if this...what if that...hmmm isn't that kind of like x,y,z thing...?". In Marxist-Leninist theory imperialism is when capitalist countries loot resources from the third world and forcibly keep them undeveloped. China is doing the opposite because they realize it is more in their interest to build up strong partners. That's part of their win-win strategy.

>>15144838
That's completely false. Development is not a zero sum game. That's the typical capitalist scarcity mentality. As Neiztsche says, Nature is characterized by extravagant abundance. Socialism comes from a point of view of abundance. There is more than enough for everyone.

>>15144820
>taking a bus to go shopping
/lit/ is an anti urbanite board.

>>15144875
nice opinion, i don't care

>>15144897
You seem irritated enough to indicate that you do in fact care.

>>15144948
i don't care about your opinion, i just care about having the last word, which is something different. now jump off a building and into a designated safety net why don't you

>>15144820
> i enjoy my lot in life
terminal stage cope

>>15144971
how do you know? you don't even know what i do for a living. why this need to sperg out?

>>15145007
>I shop at wholefoods, drink starbucks, have a credit card, and own an iphone, and i work a minimum wage job.

>>15145007
you've made yourself a mark by even suggesting an affinity / common struggle with the leftists in the OP. thus, retards will read anything derogatory they can think of into your post

>>15145023
ok...and you still don't know what i do for a living

>>15144850
First, I want it to be clear that I'm not anti-marxist or anti-China at all. I just need this discussion to better arrange my thoughts on this matter.

>In Marxist-Leninist theory imperialism is when capitalist countries loot resources from the third world and forcibly keep them undeveloped
See, this is the main thing that I still struggle against. I lean very much towards the left side of the scale but when it comes to this it always boils down to 'my definition of this doesn't allow for self-criticism [insert circular argument]'. Of course China can't be imperialist if your definition of imperialism is literally capitalism. Of course socialist countries can't be imperialists if your definition of socialism is anti-imperialism. Yet, you can't deny that at one point, the URSS was indeed imperialist. This is not abstract or hypothetical, I'm appealing to historical facts.
Maybe I can rephrase my point better. Can there be forms of imperialism other than the classical capitalist imperialism? (read 19/20 century imperialism). Can there be something like economic imperialism without the need of military involvement? My answer to both would be yes. Now, after those questions are answered and detailed, is the relationship of China and Africa imperialist as per the previous answers? I would be inclined to say yes.

>>15144858
Now this is indeed hypothetical and abstract. You are talking about an utopia. Unless there is a mass enlightening event were all the population became angels and suddenly everyone loved each other and there would be no hate among anyone, what you describe won't happen.
Still, there might come a time where abundance is the rule, sure. But that time won't come after every country is 'developed'. It will be something other than 'developing'. Like I said, the whole rhetoric is based on imperialism. I agree, socialism wants what you described, but it won't come by repeating that rhetoric that you yourself described as capitalist mentality. The developed/underdeveloped dichotomy is used too much by the enemy to subdue smaller countries to their will, stop repeating it and destroy it. If you use that dichotomy, no matter how many other definitions you give it it will still be imperialist.

>>15145029
No, he did the opposite. He said he enjoys working a minimum wage job and blowing all his money on consoomashit.

>>15145030
It doesn't matter what you do. You're making nothing and to pretend everything is alright is the definition of cope.

Capitalism is absolutely to blame for a ton of the world's faults. If you can't see that you are a moron.

>>15145038
>my definition of this doesn't allow for self-criticism [insert circular argument]
That's the normal definition of imperialism as developed by Lenin. It's not some weird thing. That's just what the word means. What do you mean by it?
>at one point, the URSS was indeed imperialist
how so?
>Can there be forms of imperialism other than the classical capitalist imperialism?
If you want to play a semantic game, then yeah, sure there can, but you just have to tell me what you mean by that.
>is the relationship of China and Africa imperialist
I don't understand how. You will have to explain. I'm not being facetious, I really have no clue what you're getting at.
>You are talking about an utopia
I'm not talking about Utopia, I'm talking about contemporary conditions. We have abundance now. In the US there are 20 empty homes for every homeless person. We have abundance but we don't use it. Same with food. We have surplus and throw it away because there is no profit to be gained from it. This is a flawed system that is premised on a non-existent scarcity. Abundance is the underlying reality that we are ignoring.
>Unless there is a mass enlightening event were all the population became angels and suddenly everyone loved each other and there would be no hate among anyone, what you describe won't happen.
Has nothing to do with what I'm talking about. I'm just talking about more rational economic organization.
>Still, there might come a time where abundance is the rule, sure.
Now is that time, as I have indicated.
>The developed/underdeveloped dichotomy is used too much by the enemy to subdue smaller countries to their will
You need to familiarize yourself with the facts more, instead of speaking vaguely. Look at what the World Bank and IMF does to third world countries versus what China is doing. It is measurably, tangibly different. Thanks for engaging in discussion, by the way. It sounds like you have your head in the right place, but you aren't familiar with the tangible facts. That makes all the difference.

>>15145045
>groceries and a phone is consoomashit
>>15145048
nice caricature. im a for political and social changes, but personally im happy. that's all im saying.