/lit/ - Literature

Marcionism

>>15146279
>Baa
Isn't that the onomatopoeia for a sheep sound? Was it the sheep god? Or the shit god?

>>15146279
>>The Israelites originally worshipped Yahweh alongside a variety of Canaanite gods and goddesses, including El, Asherah and Baa but in time El and Yahweh became conflated.
>>A number of scholars have drawn the conclusion that infant sacrifice, whether to the underworld deity Molech or to Yahweh himself, was a part of Israelite/Judahite religion until the reforms of King Josiah in the late 7th century BCE. Prayer played little role in official worship.
>>Asherah, formerly the wife of El, was worshipped as Yahweh's consort or mother; potsherds discovered at Khirbet el-Kôm and Kuntillet Ajrûd make reference to "Yahweh and his Asherah", and various biblical passages indicate that her statues were kept in his temples.
>>The worship of Yahweh alone began at the earliest in the 9th century BCE, but even then it remained the concern of a small party before gaining ascendancy in the Babylonian exile and early post-exilic period.The early supporters of this faction did not believe Yahweh was the only god in existence, but instead believed he was the only god the people of Israel should worship.
>>Tacitus, John the Lydian, and Cornelius Labeo all identify Yahweh with the Greek god Dionysus. Jews themselves frequently used symbols that were also associated with Dionysus such as kylixes, amphorae, leaves of ivy, and clusters of grapes
>How do Christians rationalise the fact that Yahweh was originally just another obscure god whose pantheon role, powers and dominion developed over time like any other man-made religion?

>>15146300
Oh, so they don't rationalise it at all. Thanks for the confirmation.

>>15146279
Jews are apostates and heretics, what's new from a Christian point of view?

>>15146279
How do atheists rationalize small PP and suicidal depression?

>>15146307
The majority of the Christian Bible concerns stories about Yahweh, anon...

>>15146289
>Marcionism

>>15146307
Half of the Bible is Judaist...

>>15146316
That the heretic Jews worshipped some weird desert gods at the same time they worshipped the real deal isn't a big theological difficulty anon. It just means Jews wouldn't recognize divine relevation even if it were to hit them in the Jacob's ladder (a few holy individuals aside, of course). Old Testament itself supports this reading. Jews turned to idolatry every other generation and God was always punishing them for that.
That's the beauty of Christianity, "the Jews are wrong about their own God" is baked in the religion's fundamental assumptions.

>>15146279
>>15146304
>they don't rationalise it at all
This is obvious
Christcucks have spent the last two Millennia killing and burning anyone with a rational thought, because their bullshit superstition is so obviously delusional that the only possible answer they can give to reason is "Shut up or I'll kill you you fucking faggot you just don't understand I WAS CHOSEN"

>>15146334
The OT has no business being part of *CHRISTianity*

>>15146351
>Christcucks have spent the last two Millennia killing and burning anyone with a rational thought
lol "rational thought"

>>15146334
How about the fact that the most likely meaning of 'Yahweh' is 'He Blows', referring to a Wind God, that Israel, the name of Yahweh's beloved people, refers to El, the original head of the pantheon whom Yahweh was subordinate to, and it was believed that Yahweh had a wife/mother?

The two rationalisations that would seem to fit are either that God was larping as a storm god for hundreds of years for some reason, or that God took on the identity of another, actually non-existent God for some reason.

>>15146364
I know the concept is foreign to you

>>15146351
What is your take on the Jews?

>>15146370
I'm not even a Christian but this is ridiculous.

>>15146378
Do tell me what did they do to "Heathens" and "Heretics", then?
Obviously I'm being hyperbolic and deliberately offensive because I'm annoyed at all these religious retards flooding the board

>>15146369
I don't get why you're hung unto this. Everyone know Christianity is just a religion like any other and who has evolved from a simpler, polytheistic form.
Like, desert people worshiped desert gods is a nothing burger as a far as "gotcha stupid theists" go.

>>15146403
>Everyone know Christianity
Except the stupid theists of course...

>>15146399
>seething this over public board on literature
Don’t be a faggot, desu.

>>15146279
These people don't believe Jesus was even real, why should I as a devout Christian take them seriously?

>>15146334
Exactly this. People seem to think Judaism and christianity are the same thing, that Jews just don't recognize the Messiah, but it couldn't be further from the truth. Judaism is and always has been paganism. Nothing OP said except for his extrapolation was false. Modern day Jews do not worship the God of Abraham, and the talmud is non Israeli oral pagan tradition. Jesus actively refuted the Pharisees several times - the advocates of the talmud. He disagreed with the Saducees as well - advocates of the written law, the Torah - but the bible gives overwhelming evidence of his arguments with Pharisees. The fact that anyone could equate Judaism with Christianity save the Messiah is laughable. And the Old Testament is not invalidated simply because God's people turned their backs on Him. It was written by righteous men and prophets who loved God.

Of course God is not the only powerful being in the universe. Demons exist, have a large amount of earthly power, and are worshipped by all pagans. Being "real" and being the one true God - the only uncreated being in the universe - are entirely different things

>>15146420
That's not true, the academic historical consensus is that Jesus was real, and even that he lived, preached and was killed.

Its just edgy atheists that don't believe that. I (OP) am not an edgy atheist, I am genuinely asking.

>>15146422
Except that the historical records doesn't show that Yahweh revealed himself as a true God, but the Jews couldn't help worshiping other false gods.

The historical records suggest Yahweh was dreamed up as minor storm deity in a certain pantheon, then evolved into the major deity of a specific city, among others, and then after hundreds of years, evolved into the only deity (among many real deities) that should be worshiped, and then finally the only deity that existed.

That seems like a very weird way for God (especially the vengeful and jealous God as characterized in the Old Testament) to reveal himself, and runs completely counter to the details of this revelation in the Bible.

>>15146436
>the historical records
What in the fuck are you talking about

>>15146453
>historical record: writing having historical value (as opposed to fiction or myth etc.)
Yes I typoed with an s at the end, but you're on /lit/, have some initiative.

Genesis was real
Moses wrote the Pentateuch
David wrote the Psalms
Jesus rose from the dead

These are the only proper opinions to have.

>>15146462
What historical record, retard. I know what a historical record is

>>15146471
David did not write all the psalms but yeah sure

>>15146473
I'm not going to go out and do your research for you, but for one, there's this passage that pre-exists the (edited) biblical source.

>When the Most High [El] gave to the nations their inheritance, when he separated the sons of men, he fixed the bounds of the peoples according to the number of the Sons of God. For Yahweh’s portion is his people, Jacob his allotted heritage. (Deuteronomy 32:8-9, Masoretic Text).

>>15146410
Shitposting is the only reason any of us is here anon
Now fuck you

>>15146517
>us
Don’t speak for everyone you cuck

what are some other red pills about ancient jews apart from:
>moloch child sacrifice
>leper armies led by renegade priests sacking egypt and inverting its values
>mass ethnic slaughter of their enemies turned into days of worship and celebration
>worshiping a storm god that comes across as demonic

ITT: christcuck coping through mental gymnastics and outright lying

>>15146551
>the hexagram has a strong historical presence in the Middle East, and has only a very tenuous relationship with David

If I remember right, the Apocryphal texts hint that Jesus comes from a different God from Yahweh. I think it might have been the book of Judas, there's a part in which Jesus laughs at his own disciples for worshiping "their" god.

>>15146351
>This is obvious
>Christcucks have spent the last two Millennia killing and burning anyone with a rational thought, because their bullshit superstition is so obviously delusional that the only possible answer they can give to reason is "Shut up or I'll kill you you fucking faggot you just don't understand I WAS CHOSEN"
if you would study human history you would see that humans are just batshit insane in general. This is not a Christcuck problem this is a evil humancuck problem. the Muslims pull the same shit and the Jews would too if they weren't such a tiny group... so instead they got to be sheisty little guys. Shalom.

>>15146565
just another day then

>>15146613
>this is a evil humancuck problem
>christoids
>kikes
>mudslimes
sounds like it’s an abrahamist problem

>>15146279
Theology is seeking answers and cope to this. I myself became more relativistic. Protestantism should be finished because it denies human life and tradition. The others should see themselves as heirs and seek an heir of their own.

>>15146617
Aztecs and Indian Hindus weren't too jolly about the alternative views in their domain. Romans and druids, Romans and Archimedes, Greeks and Socrates...
Humancuck is a good term.

>>15146499
That passage IS the biblical source you pseud. And by
>sons of God
The hebrew says Israel, not elohim, so it would actually be sons of Israel
And Most High here is not El, its
עליון
Elyon, meaning supreme, elevation, high upper etc. Used several times throughout the old testament to refer to YHWH when coupled with the actual word for El:
אל
El can be used of any deity, but when written out עליוןאל it is referring to YHWH, the most high God

If you are thinking of verse 12 which states
>So the LORD alone did lead him, and there was no strange god with him.
The strange god was simply an El, not a most high as mentioned in verse 8

Again, there are of course created demons that pagans worship as gods. This does not change the fact that God is all powerful, uncreated, and the one true God

>>15146611
>if I remember right
Opinion discarded, come back with facts

The thing that always bums me out about these threads is how unintellectual they are. No
>How does the growth of the concept of Yahweh from a pagan desert God into a monotheistic one scan when compared to Hegel's view of cultural progress being revealed in the abstraction of God from natural phenomenon, to animal, to animal-man, to man, to spirit?
Instead we just get the same tired pseudy "owns" regurgitated in dozens of forms. Are you guys all 14? Have you just realized that being a dick about religion is a way to express your dissatisfaction with your family? If you're on here, you must at least occasionally brush up against the knowledge that some people aren't fucking retarded. How does that knowledge coexist in your head with such lowbrow, reddit tier bullshit?

>God uses more than one nameeeeeee reeeeeeee333!!!111
but seriously God setting different angels over different people has been known for a long time and is displayed in the New Testament.
>All the Angels have the name of God in them therefore they are all different gods and God is fake and he is pagan
>God calls certain evil spirits gods and so God debunkeded himself
>Humans know God more or less clearly and have limited mediums in which to know him and so God is a pagan based Desert Demon
Seriously guys you're displaying to all in the know your ignorance of how the Divide reveals himself and how he has to battle with humans and demons to reveal himself. And you wonder why Jesus had to come to the Earth to set things straight. Tsktsk. Not that that's working out all the way.

>>15146369
>most likely
[weasel words, opinion?, personal research?, citation needed]

>>15146499
You're mistranslating the Hebrew awfully.

Oh boy it's THIS thread again...

Deuteronomy 4:39
Know therefore this day and take to heart that the LORD is God in heaven above and on the earth below; there is no other.


Deuteronomy 6:4
Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is One.

>>15146696
Cope

>>15146696
Deuteronomy was added later on

>>15146696
>the LORD is One.
>but also there’s three of him or something idk
bruh what

>>15146805
HOLY BASED BROTHER. All you soiboi trinitarians need to become SEMI-ARIAN BVLLS

>>15146671
t. midwit trying to act superior

>>15146279
>How do Christians rationalise
They don't, they just deny it like the Jews do and believe the fake history their rabbi overlords invented.
There was no Abraham, there was no exodus, the Hebrews didn't came and conquered, they were the actual polytheistic Canaanites that Judaism preach against.

More than that, reading the Tanach in Hebrew, God is called by the names El, Yehova, Adonai, Elohim (which is plural). This is lost in translations were he is referred to as God/Lord.
The Ugaritic writings on Baal are nearly identical to Bible verses about Yaweh, and ofc they predate Judaism.

There's a lot of archeological evidence on the subject, but they remain in the academic circle. Even the average secular/atheist "Jew" is unaware of that.

What are the sources on Moloch and infant sacrifice? As far as I know there is no evidence for human sacrifice at that time and all claims come only from Judaism.

>>15146304
Levantine Gods have generic names like Adonai, Baal, El Shaddai, Elohim which just mean Lord, the Strong, God. They just developed from titles of the One God.

Its not like "Zeus" and "Thor" and "Odin", just titles

>>15146403
This is false. Arabs like Babylonians used to worship the Sun and such. After the Hebrews, mideast gods become things like Lord, King, 'I am', God, showing signs of affected monotheism

>>15146436
When the Jews worshipped God, they lived securely in the Holy Land.
When the Jews followed pagans, they were exiled. Thats a sign of Gods covenant. The perception that Monotheism emerged from Paganisn is wrong, its the other way around. People stsrt attributing things to God for no reason

>>15147657
>Arabs like Babylonians used to worship the Sun
Arabs and other middle easterns used to worship a variety of Gods and like any polytheism they had the central figure/father whom they revered the most between those Gods, like the nordics have odin. it wasn't because of the hebrews, you kike worshipping christcuck.

>>15146587
The star of David is a fake name. Its actually the 'Seal of Solomon' used to confer with demons. Jews believdd he was some kind of pagan king magician

>>15147599
The Story of Ahiqar (7th century) is a story of a Monotheist against Pharoah. Its obviously a memory of Moses

The Star of David is interesting because it has the As Above So Below double triangles in it and because it also represents the number 7, the Sabbath being the middle of the star.

>>15146640
>Again, there are of course created demons that pagans worship as gods.

Lmao

>>15147670
Yeah but it changed from full on paganism (The Sun, Yam God of the sea etc, Ishtar, Innana etc) to generic Lord (Baal), Melqart (King), Elohim

>>15146357
>What is Matthew 5:17-20

>>15146633
>>15146617

Religion is principally a tool of political cohesion/control.

>>15147691
No, The Sun Gods or whatever were called lords and Kings and so on. "El" used to refer to a variety of Pagan Gods, just like it's arabic varient "Elah" was used the same way.

Swedenborg claims that humans have often had their ups and downs when it comes to God. at one point people believed in one God and then they became pagans and then they believed in one God again, apparently.

>>15146279
>The Old Testament says that the ancient Hebrews worshiped other gods.
>Various non-bibilical historical and archaeological evidence indicates that the Hebrews worshiped other gods.

XTIANS (but not Jews?) B T F O

>>15147702
What about in Mesopotamian Babylonians times. It seems to change after arouns 1000BC (Hebrews arrive)

>>15147703 People tend to deify monarchs or absorb foreign Gods

>>15147713
>It seems to change after arouns 1000BC
you got any proofs or sources? because the word "lord" is used to refer to a variant of Gods and even humans in pagan (pre-Hebrew) middle east

>>15146633
>Indian Hindus weren't too jolly about the alternative views in their domain
>historically the most theistically diverse region in the world

>>15146587
Yes, the "Star of David" has nothing to do with David and probably doesn't have anything to do with Solomon except insofar as various magical societies, largely nurtured by Arabs, appropriated his name as a symbol of wisdom.

>>15147728
>largely nurtured by Arabs
source : your ass.
there are no pre-islamic arabian sources for the star of david and after islam anything of that sorts was considered witchcraft and therefore blasphemy punishable by death

Pre-agrarian Israelites were monotheistic. Polytheism developed later on. Yahweh was just the name they gave to their primitive interpretation of the Creator being, who eventually decided to formally adopt it so that the Israelites had a rough Idea of who they were worshipping

>>15147687
The "Star of David" has fuck all to do with either ancient or post-Temple Judaism. Its association with Jews is from late-19th century Zionists trying to find a convenient symbol for their movement.

>>15147713
>People tend to deify monarchs or absorb foreign Gods
Well yeah look at North Korea when everyone had a fake cry over their leader and I'm sure some people were so cucked that they really felt sorrow.
>what worship you? yeah sure just don't kill me like those other guys you killed.

>>15147645
There are plenty of Semitic deities with "actual names", of both Sumerian and Semitic origin. It's only in a few cases where they patently rip-off Sumerian religion where their central figure is not just "Desert Lord #423". It's also worth noting that the Semites apparently did not view Baal, El, Adonai, etc as being the same deity, and given the Semitic autism with names it's entirely possible that the Baal of Carthage did actually have a "real name" that was kept secret, only revealed to initiates (we know that Semites did this with other gods, after all).

>>15146279
What always gets me about these threads are the epic zoomer e-tradcath LARPers touting this weird crypto-Islamic line that the Jews were never polytheists ever. It's entirely canon within Christianity and Judaism that the Jews were polytheistic in their history, numerous times in fact. Fucking King Solomon was an adamant polytheist, and Yahwe's wife Asherah was worshiped alongside him in the Temple for most of its history. The only disagreement between the Jewish historical narrative and the history of the Semites is how that polytheism-monotheism conflict unfolded.

There is no evidence to support the Exodus narrative having occurred, and both the Vatican and the State of Israel have openly said that it's an entirely fictional narrative.

>>15147732
It wasn't the pre-Islamic Arabs, but the post-Islamic Arabs, fueled by Mohammed's lies about Solomon's command of "djinn" (demons). That being said, unapproved occult use of "Solomon's Seal" still went on. I know this might be a hard concept for the Based Islam types to understand, but just because something is illegal doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

>>15146279
Why do you even post these threads OP? You know fully well that christcucks and kikecucks will just pull some record breaking mental gymnastics out of their collective asses and you'll just waste your time in the end on a futile endeavor.

>>15147742
>There is no evidence to support the Exodus narrative having occurred,
You have to remember that you're talking to Christians who have a guy claiming to have found the electrum from the chariot wheels which were conveniently found in the ocean. Thanks TBN.

>>15147763
never claimed islam was based but once again you provided no sources for your retarded claims. the star refers to" as above so is below". not djinns. mainly hermetic shit. and as far as I'm concerned hermeticism isn't popular with arabs both pre-islamic and definitely not after islam

>>15147742
Theres some history around that time speaking of a 'Habiru' invasion.
Also in Islam, Solomon wasnt a pagan (but Jews sometimes were)

>>15147795
+ There was clearly something tumultuous in Egypt at the time. One pharoah was called Yaqub (Jacob), Akhenaten worsipped Aten monotheistically etc. Palestine had DNA of European Philistine invaders, showing the Hebrews came from outside (hence Habiru invasions). Story of Ahiqar shows 7th century monotheism v. Pharoah

>>15147771
Sometimes I think mental gymnastics is better than some of the slow brained peoples who are damn shallow be ye religious or atheist. Truly you put on display Mankind's ignorance of God. It's all a bunch of shallow ass human stupidity that depends on history and evidence for the ultimate truth of reality. They are forever trying to make God as a king who rules over them and they are forever hoping that this King will leave them proof that he is. the atheists are forever pointing out how stupid the religious people are even though they are both going by the same exact means. it's all a bunch of primitive animals squawking around going through their evolved motions. they will never find God because animals cannot know God.

>>15146279
There are a lot of similar problems and "contradictions" going on between jewish and christian theology, that Christians mostly are completely unaware of since they don't read up on jewish theology, and read the OT from a Christian perspective.

I might write more on this later today, but can't right now.

>>15147742
>It's entirely canon within Christianity and Judaism that the Jews were polytheistic in their history
It's still different from the archeological prespective. From the Judeo-Christian view, the imaginary ancestor Abraham left his fatherland and the gods worshipped there and followed Yaweh to Cannan and then every once in a while his people forgot Yaweh and start worshipping other gods. It implies that the Hebrews are foreign to Cannan, and that the covenant with Yaweh is the essence of their existence as a people, while the truth is that they were the same local oy vey bad pagans that were worshipping these gods way long before these fictional stories took place.

>>15147819
>watches one tovia singer video

>>15147812
>they will never find God because animals cannot know God.
>thinking there was a God in the first place
You're the biggest cuck of all, because you believe yourself in your heart not to be, while your wife is getting railed by Tyrone right in front of you.

>>15147824
literally no idea who that is, but ok anon

>>15147833
he's a rabbi which exposes the contradictions between christian claims and the old testament, like for example, how Jesus claim of being God in the flesh and being messiah contradicts the writings of the prophets and so on

>>15147830
Hey man if Tyrone wants my wife then she can have him, I don't really want someone that doesn't want me. The god of the atheist is "common sense". With your common sense you have judged for yourself the Ultimate Reality. Good job on accepting what is so blatantly fucking obvious. I don't know why no one in religion has ever called this world an illusion. It's not like God put Adam to sleep to make eve.

>>15146499
>heh, yeah I made a bullshit claim, so what?
>I'm not going to justify myself lol, do your own research
>trust me bro

>>15147777
You want a source for the claim that Arab Muslims believe(d) that Soleimani bin Dawud used commanded djinn? OK.

>Sura 34 verse 12, Pickthall
>And unto Solomon (We gave) the wind, whereof the morning course was a month's journey and the evening course a month's journey, and We caused the fount of copper to gush forth for him, and (We gave him) certain of the jinn who worked before him by permission of his Lord. And such of them as deviated from Our command, them We caused to taste the punishment of flaming Fire.

>That Solomon had a magic ring
>https://www.al-islam.org/hayat-al-qulub-vol-1-allamah-muhammad-baqir-al-majlisi/account-sulayman

>That this magic ring had some kind of seal on it
http://www.alim.org/library/quran/AlQuran-tafsir/TIK/27/82

>That Solomon's seal is or includes a hexagram
http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/13843-solomon-seal-of
>but JOOS
nigga the Seal of Solomon being a hexagram is literally "common knowledge" in the Islamic world, find your own source.

>>15146279

>>15146279
look I found this picture of the OP. You know it's him because it's clearly labeled and is contemporary with our earliest historical record of his existence (this thread).

If christians bothered to read jewish history in context to their christian religion they would drop christianity in a heartbeat to bvecome atheists or pagans. Choosing to be christian while being aware of its history is essentialy choosing to a be a slave to a desert daemon( spirit, in the greek etimology). The first gentile christians were people who accepted jewish material wealth in exchange for betraying the roman state. Its a religion for cowards, traitors, and malcontents in general. Its cultuation of weakness and ignorance is what eventualy led to things like communism (communism comes from communion, a christian ritual practice)

>>15147777

>calls someone retarded
>is proven completely wrong and ignorant

lel

>>15147885
>You want a source for the claim that Arab Muslims believe(d) that Soleimani bin Dawud used commanded djinn?
no nigger, I already agree on that since I've read the Quran and noticed it's written there. Ive never claimed the seal wasn't a hexagram, you ebonics using nigger. the Seal/Star predates islam and goes back to hermeticism. it literally symbolizes "AS ABOVE SO IS BELOW". you're trying to build the argument that this is false and it's the muslims who came with the symbol because mohamed told them they can control djinns like Solomon and started using it in magic or whatever. none of your sources proof that claim.

Religious syncretism isn't a threat to the believability of a religious system if you're capable of understanding that it's largely metaphorical anyway.

>>15147903
Based

>>15147850
>i-i-it's okay I never wanted my wife anyway
This here is what's commonly known as a coping loser.
>Good job on accepting what is so blatantly fucking obvious.
I don't feel proud for having to spell out common sense to others, but the world has grown so dumb that it became a necessity.
>I don't know why no one in religion has ever called this world an illusion
>what is the entirety of hinduism
Holy shit man, you're on the literature board, pick up a book and inform yourself before you spout your dumb bullshit.

>>15147913
I never said the Muslims invented it. What exactly are you so mad about? And no, Mohammed never said "anyone can control djinns like Solomon with his magic ring". But he did say Solomon controlled djinns with a magic ring. What does this have to do with Jews? Nothing, which is the point.

>>15147974
> What does this have to do with Jews?
never said it did, You claimed it was the muslims who made the association between the star and Solomon here >>15147728. while in reality, the association already existed in Jewish Masoretic Text and even in Hermeticism before that, (although it wasn't called the star of David/seal of Solomon the jews appropriated it) you get it? nigger

>>15147999
too add to this, I thought you meant that I had some sort of conspiracy theory about the jews, which I dont. but the Star of david does have alot to do with jews

>>15147919
>if you're capable of understanding that it's largely metaphorical anyway.

The only people who believe this are atheist apologists for religion, not religious people themselves.

>>15146300
I like how a meme that is clearly mocking the faux-excitement of consumers and fandoms has turned into a generic "you're stupid" insult by rightoids.

>>15146371
'ate jews

>>15148052
There's not that much of a cultural leap from the physiognomy of consumerist bugmen to the contemporary popular left wing and its various memeplex associations like atheism, "i fucking love science!", reddit, theorytards, lgbt politics, etc. Where you find one, you find the others.

If people pointing out the herd mentality of your fellow travellers makes you mad, I suggest you go play with your funko pops and rainbow-flagged star wars action figures.

>>15147855
go back. begging people to look things up for you is peak plebbit

>>15147742
the real truth of exodus is that the jews were mercenaries and the pharaoh hired them to genocide canaanites.

>>15147903
B R V H

>>15147678
Can you point to a body of information regarding this topic?

>>15146671
>Instead we just get the same tired pseudy "owns" regurgitated in dozens of forms.
Your complaint follows the same format. Be the change you want to see.

>>15146802
>Deuteronomy was added later on
Not him but what does this mean? When was it added?

>>15147683
>obviously
Strictly on the basis of sequence?

>>15148980
Expressing contempt for a pattern=/=making a pseudy "own". I'm not engaging in a debate with the ideas of an opponent group, I am calling it retarded from the outside. It's not an "own" because I don't respect the people I'm talking about enough to see their point of view as worth disproving through some exertion of logic, I'm just calling it fucking stupid.

>>15146279
The Old Testament says how the Israelites repeatedly went astray to worship strange gods. This isn't news to anyone who has actually read The Bible.

>>15147687
>As Above So Below
Can you point to an argument in favor of this position that predates the use of triangles to represent male/female fertility?

>>15147903
The redpill that /lit/ isn’t ready to take

>>15147899
Cope and seethe

>>15146279
Is it true that Yahweh was originally a Bedouin god?

Watching people on either side of this debate on this website is hilarious because you're all just trying to prove muh side with random cherry picked """facts""".
That being said none of you fedora tippers will ever be able to disprove Christianity.

>>15147903
>betraying the roman state.
The Roman state destroyed Pagan Europe. If you're really a Pagan, you should despise them.

>>15149147
it's already been disproven many times, thats why the west is secular.

>>15147699
Literal retard take

>>15146357
Blessed

>>15149173
Atheism is pushed by the elites so they can treat you like animals when they make you believe that's what you are. It's nothing more than control, and you think it's liberation. Of course, that's exactly how we described Satan as working in the world.

>>15146279
>Dude Israelites practiced polytheism. What the bible says they did and God got angry at them for it? What do you mean it says they had high places to gods like Baal and chimosh? I thought only smart people like me who read this one passage from a website knew that
Bravo on trying to criticize a religion based on a book you haven't read

>>15149170
What if I'm a hellenic pagan Republican Aryan ultranationalist

>>15149198
>de evil forces are working against me, thats why I'm losing.
yeah definitely, it's not because your theology is inconsistent or because your religion is just hellenized Judaism.

>>15149135
How are you using "Bedouin"? In the colloquial sense of "tribal nomadic Semite society focused around herding sheep/goats and raiding"? If so, yes, it's pretty clear Yahweh was one of numerous Semitic gods of storm and war that managed to get himself a henotheistic cult that eventually took over a small patch of territory. I've also heard theories about him being a "sea god", which has VASTLY different connotations for the Semites who were absolutely scared shitless by the sea than it does for the Indo-Europeans who adored the sea, so "Sea god" =/= "Jewish Poseidon".

If you mean in the actual sense of "a very specific Berber population" then no, there's no evidence that Yahweh is at all foreign to the Levant as the Berbers were.

>>15149067
99.99% of the Christfags on this website are only Christian because Nick Fuentes sucked Lady Maga's dick for going to church and 99.99% of the atheists on this website are too young to vote. Expecting them to have read the Bible is a GROSS overestimation of their capabilities.

>>15149231
>In the colloquial sense
Faggot

>>15149230
You haven't read the church father's if you think Christianity is le epic hellenized Judaism

>>15149231
are you the expert on YHWH or something? also how do you know jews were scared of the sea? you wouldn't be lying, would you?

>>15149183
nah

>>15149243
The church fathers were desperately trying to sew the gap and cover over the inconsistency between the Hebrew bible and New testament, it's basically what christian theology is, One big cope. you're not worshipping YHWH fully and you're adhering to Greek religion.

>>15149243
They based their theology on a guy larping as Dionysus from whom Paul created his. This was already proved in the Renaissance.

>>15149135
Yes a bedouin storm god who was merged with El creating the Old Testament God.

>>15149198
>Christianity is pushed by the elites so they can treat you like you’re lower on the Great Chain of Being when they make you believe that's what you are
hmmmmm

>>15146312
Genetic misfortune and chemicals, in that order.

>>15149278
>you’re not worshipping the true revealed Triune God which revealed himself as such even in the OT
>but jews are

>>15149306
>the true revealed Triune God
yes, thats the hellenized part. YHWH didn't reveal himself as three persons in one. he would've mentioned something as important as that in 10 commandements.
>inb4 you pullout lets us make man in OUR image

>>15149333
>thats the hellenized part
It is already all over the OT. It was not the Father who created, but the Father through the Son in the Spirit. It was not the Father talking to Abraham, but the Father through the Son in the Spirit. This was subtly implied all over the OT but not explicitly like in the NT because it was due to the fact that jews worshipped a syncretic development of pagan gods and appealed to their concrete understanding to bound them to a Divine Unity and not to fall in paganism again. But obviously the prophets already knew the full truth.

>>15149333
>Come ye near unto me, hear ye this; I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; from the time that it was, there am I: and now the Lord God, and his Spirit, hath sent me.
Isaiah 48:16

He (Christ) was there from the beginning, and was sent by the Lord God and his Spirit. Three persons.

Or literally just read Psalms because Christ and the Holy Spirit are mentioned many, many, many times.

>>15149333
>The kings of the earth stood up, and the rulers gathered themselves together, against the Lord, and against his Christ

>παρέστησαν οἱ βασιλεῖς τῆς γῆς, καὶ οἱ ἄρχοντες συνήχθησαν ἐπὶ τὸ αὐτὸ κατὰ τοῦ Κυρίου καὶ κατὰ τοῦ χριστοῦ αὐτοῦ.

>χριστοῦ

Psalm 2

>>15149400
>three lines of cope
it's simple, Go to the hebrew bible and find a clear passage that speaks of the Father, Son and holy spirit being one God and three persons. or find a passage that says God will incarnate in the flesh as the messiah and sacrifice himself for our sins, bonus if you don't take passages out of context or use mistranslations

>>15149198
Ah yes, because people where sooo free under christian europe. Atheism may be retarded as fuck but still doesn't come close to the brainletness that christcuckery is.

>>15149463
The Catholic Church is not Christianity, it's a continuation of the Babylonian religion.

>>15146279
discord . gg/tmecPqx

>>15149483
Lol what the fuck, you fringe christians have some really wild ideas

>>15147903
This. Fuck jew on stick, I dont want to worship a desert devil. Christfags go back

>>15147903

>>15149333
>1 Samuel 16:13
>Then Samuel took the horn of oil, and anointed him in the midst of his brethren: and the Spirit of the LORD came upon David from that day forward

>>15149643
>No mention of the Father, Son and holy spirit (trinity)
>no mention of God incarnating into the flesh and sacrificing himself for our sins
so this the power of Christianity

>>15146471
Can’t tell if this is ironic or not

>>15147688
What do you mean lmao? Why would the jews turn away from YHWH so often if those demons - false gods - did not have power?

>>15149483
Orthodox russia was known as a paradise for freedom, just like Protestant germany? You christcucks are even dumber than most muslims.

>>15149462
Genesis 1:26
Genesis 3:15
Genesis 16:7
Genesis 21:17
Genesis 31:11
Exodus 3:2
Isaiah 6:3
Isaiah 61:1
Proverbs 9:1
Psalm 118:26
Psalm 33:16

>>15149912
>christoid went to a missionary website and copypasted these verses
>he didn't even bother to check the verses
all of these either do not talk about a trinity or are taken out of context. again, for the last time. I just want one verse clear as day thats says God is three persons in one or God will incarnate in the flesh and die for our sins.

>>15147812
>that depends on history and evidence for the ultimate truth of reality
Christianity is 100% historically contingent. It is strictly necessary for the resurrection to be a plain, material, historical event for christianity to be true. Without this historical contingency its just a really complicated fantasy novel. No different from arguing about the metaphysics of Harry Potter. Christianity is one of the most historically dependent and "evidence" dependent religions on god's green earth. You have to blindly believe in literal, physical events or the entire project is a waste.

>>15147903
Based beyond belief

>>15148795
see
>>15147885

>>15149747
Yes, Russia was fine until they removed religion.

>>15149945
how do these not point to manifest symbol of trinity? Thrice Holy God, the Seed of the Woman crushing the serpent's head. But you don't want to see what is in your face, there is no point in trying to show it to someone like you.

>>15149945

I gave you two already and you didn't reply. A dishonest Atheist/Jew ignoring posts that BTFO him. Standard.

>>15149421
>>15149441

>>15150113
>I didn't manage to find any verses or proof
>so you must be blinded by jeebus, good bye
christianity in a nutshell

>>15147903
>Its cultuation of weakness and ignorance is what eventualy led to things like communism (communism comes from communion, a christian ritual practice)
lmao
there is only two forces acting in this realm, like truth and falsity, Christianity and Gnosticism. Christians don't try to immanentize the transcendent, this realm will be cursed until the end.

>>15150127
I didn't believe in any kind of predestination, but your kind reinforces the idea. As Pythagoras said: Not to every man speak of God.

>>15150127
Oh look, you ignored my posts again.

>>15150124

>>15150124
the against his "christ" psalm 2 isn't referring to Jesus simply because the messiah is a man, not a God like christians. as for Isaiah it says The lord my God and his spirit sent me, even if we take this into a literal christological interpretation, it isn't referring to a trinity, christcucks fail to bring a clear verse where god says that he is three persons in one. wow, he really btfod me

>>15150179
like christians claim*

>>15150150
It's just pride. He doesn't lack the intellect, only the wisdom to be humble. The prideful can't know God because they are blinded by their own desires.

>>15150150
>again, I provided no proof from the Hebrew bible
>let me use a quote by that one greek guy

>>15150186
''Let the holy be to the holy''
''For no impure thing is allowed to approach the pure''

>>15150179
Genesis 1:26

>>15150230
>OUR image
>you see bro. a multiplicity
kek, even the christian commentators dont use that one. try again. you would think God would dedicate a chapter or at least one verse to show his trinitarian nature but no. its completely a christian invention that has no place in the Hebrew bible

>>15150179
>because the messiah is a man, not a God


>23 I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was.
> 24 When there were no depths, I was brought forth; when there were no fountains abounding with water.
> 25 Before the mountains were settled, before the hills was I brought forth:
> 26 While as yet he had not made the earth, nor the fields, nor the highest part of the dust of the world.
> 27 When he prepared the heavens, I was there: when he set a compass upon the face of the depth:
> 28 When he established the clouds above: when he strengthened the fountains of the deep:
> 29 When he gave to the sea his decree, that the waters should not pass his commandment: when he appointed the foundations of the earth:
> 30 Then I was by him, as one brought up with him: and I was daily his delight, rejoicing always before him;
> 31 Rejoicing in the habitable part of his earth; and my delights were with the sons of men.
> 32 Now therefore hearken unto me, O ye children: for blessed are they that keep my ways.
Proverbs 8

>When he prepared the heavens, I was there
>blessed are they that keep my ways.

Who is talking?

>>15150268
>retard is using christian scriptures to prove his claims about the HEBREW BIBLE
its like if muslims used the Quran to prove that mohammed's name is mentioned in the torah.

>>15146279
>you'll never worship Asherah by planting trees and circling them with your Hebros because rabbinical parasites took over your people and made them cut baby dicks for Yaweh and read retarded law books in the synagogue

fuck I hate Jews

>>15150292
What are you talking about? We have Septuagint Proverbs from 300BC, you know, 300 years before Christians existed to insert a Christian message into the scriptures.

You are just being willfully ignorant at this point. We have tried out best to show you that you are wrong.

Lord have mercy on you.

>>15150268
king solomon

>>15150318
replied to the wrong post, here >>15150324, this is my answer, and I do wish the lord to have mercy on me,

>>15150261
>n-no not this one this doesn't count this is so explicit I cannot accept this one

Indeed, it has no place in ''Hebrew'' Bible, because Jews like you have only eyes for what is concrete, you see words but not the Word behind them, the Bible is not a presentation of a concrete god, there is only Christian Bible.

>>15150349
>If I say its Jesus, then IT IS!
like I said, not even the most hardline christian commentators use it, why? because its not referring to a trinity, God is talking to the angels.
In this verse the Hebrew verb "created" appears in the singular form. If "let us make man" indicates a numerical plurality, it would be followed in the NEXT verse by, "And they created man in their image."

>>15150324
So you're saying Solomon existed before the Earth and even before Heaven itself? Somehow seems an even more bold claim than Jesus Christ being God.

>>15150336
Pray every day and ask the Lord to have mercy and strengthen your faith.

>>15147657
Where did you get that nonsense? The Babylonian religion had plenty of anthropomorphized Gods. Ishtar was famously the "Queen of Heaven". The Egyptian religion is soaked in monarchical tendencies of Lord, God, ect. Ra was the Lord of the heavens, the lands, and the underworld

Genesis 14:18

And Melchizedek king of Salem brought forth bread and wine: and he was the priest of the most high God.

Oh no no no, why are there Christian sacraments in the Old Testament?!

>>15150377
Now the angels operate God's energeia as well? Angels are not created in the image and likeness of God.

>>15150380
No, King solomon is expressing God's majesty and wisdom when he created man and the world.
and is using symbolism and metaphors to do so, read your christian commentators, this view isn't inherently "jewish" this style of writing isn't foreign to the Hebrew bible. If I decided to write a book to express my Love for God's wisdom. and I say "its like I was there when he made the earth". does that actually mean I was there?

>>15150428
The wisdom of God is the Logos, Jesus Christ.

>>15150414
No, God is simply being humble in his invitation to the angels in the heavenly abode. as I said, the Hebrew verb "create" is singular, if it was plural. then the next verse would've been "and God created man in their image" not "his" image

>>15146640
wrong. El is a Syrian deity and the chief god of the Kingdom of Israel, Yahweh was the chief god of the Edomites and the Kingdom of Judea. See https://www.amazon.com/Quest-Historical-Israel-Debating-Archaeology/dp/1589832779

>>15146633

Thats fucking retarded. The aztecs believed in the same gods their neighbhors did, just with different rituals, and hindus had barely any religious conflicts until the muslims/mongols showed up and started trying to genocide/convert them. The "holy war" phenomenon is a strictly abrahamist practice.

>>15150476
>the civilization that ripped the heart and other organs straight out of the chests of their enemies and threw them down a hundred steps was perfectly peaceful until the Christians came
Do you have any idea how stupid you sound?

>>15150523

Nice strawman there. Where did i say the aztecs were peaceful?
>The aztecs believed in the same gods their neighbhors did, just with different rituals

I want you to point exactly in this phrase where i said they are peaceful.

>>15150643
The implication in your post is that Abrahamic religions were not peaceful, in contrast to the others. Now you're just being disingenuous.

I suppose the Viking raids were peaceful too?

>>15150685

The implication only existed in your head because you were desperate for a "gotcha!" argument. I said >>The aztecs believed in the same gods their neighbhors did, just with different rituals and you immediately went full butthurt coppe mode without thinking twice.

>I suppose the Viking raids were peaceful too?

Another fucking strawman? What the hell are you even doing here man.

>>15150685
>I suppose the Viking raids were peaceful too?
yeah, they wuz good boys, they dindu nuffin

>>15150685
>>15150716

Actualy dont even bother to answer if you are going to make a third strawmen, people here are accustomed to a better level of discourse and can do without your infantile failed sophistry.

>>15149253
I've reading about this for a decade. This stuff isn't recent, the earliest stuff on this goes back to 1900 (the field has moved much farther forward since that point, of course).

As for the stuff about the sea, it's pretty clear from everything we know about the Semites that Semites don't have a high opinion of the sea. There are no sea gods that are "good guys" in Semitic religions, if there are sea gods at all as many believed the sea to be a profane place completely devoid of the love of the gods, and the sea is home to monsters and monsters alone. Leviathan and Behemoth, alongside the """"""""whale"""""""" (it being a whale is a Christian view, the Jews at the time viewed it as what amounts to a demon) are Jewish examples of these monsters given names. This doesn't even get into Tiamat, which is an older and even more wicked monster. This makes sense as the Semites are, using the colloquial usage, a bunch of Bedouins that cribbed civilization from the Sumerians, who also viewed the sea with awe and fear. Both the Semites and the Sumerians were deeply inland people.

Fishing and sea travel were later developments by the Phoenicians and other Canaanites, who were pressed up against the sea by interior Semites, and the Egyptians. If we look at Phoenician settlement patterns it's notable that they very rarely actually moved into the Mediterranean itself, but mostly just skirted the coasts. It would be the Greek and Romans who would come up withe the sailing and boat designs necessary to actually do trans-Mediterranean travel to its fullest extent. Most theories of how Mediterranean seafaring actually got started pin it on Indo-Europeans, who had been at the coasts for far longer than the Semites, and even the Afro-Asiatics (Egyptian Civilization spread out from the interior following the Nile north and south) as a whole. By the time the Sumerians come into contact with the Akkadians the Indo-Europeans had been in Greece, Italy, and Anatolia for millennia.

>>15150875
>inb4 someone comes in about everything from Greece being from Phoenicia and Egypt
This is a literal ancient meme that the Greeks came up with to help explain the Mycenaean Collapse. The Phoenix is a good example.
>Greeks have a myth about the Phoenicians having a certain firey bird
>myth spreads to Phoenicia
>Phoenician sailors tell Greek sailors that they've heard of such a bird
>Biases: confirmed

Plato would notably use this, and frequently slapped "It's Egyptian, Bro" to anything he'd made up on the fucking spot that he wanted to sound profound.

>>15150460
There is only one (common) Will in the Trinity, you know it right? God's operations are always from the Father through the Son in the Holy Spirit.

>>15150897
isn't it obvious that greeks derived and developed a lot of intellectual productions from the egyptians?

>>15146611
Christ was emanated directly from the Monad to awaken our divine spark, and let the shackles be released.

>>15150130
This realm is cursed until the end, that is its very nature. Only through escape may you reunite with the godhead.

>>15146317
The only Chad form of semitism is Gnosticism. Fuck YHVH, fuck kikes, fuck the creation, my true home is beyond this plane of existence!

>>15148052
>rightoids
No true right wing person would ever worship the god of the jews, trust me

>>15146334
>Jews turned to idolatry
>literally worships a man as a God
I swear to god m8 christcucks are even more retarded than jews

>>15146371
Hate abrahamics in general.
Not racist, just don't like 'em.

>>15146279
>It's in green text so it must be true
How do you rationalize being a cuck?

>>15147903
Absolutely BASED

>>15146279
I believe in the One, not Yahweh. Also, similar patterns of evolution of disconnected religious systems and theophany as a result of this evolution only proves truth of the whole thing.

>>15150294
This.
Pre-Yahavist Hebrews might actally be based.

>>15150875
Underrated

>>15152139
why are you still here then? why do you rely on forms of this plane of existence to realize the other plane of existence?

>>15146279
>hey alexa, what is the golden calf?

>>15152298
Because the mofo (((YHVH))) traped my divine soul into his imperfect, corrupt world.
Since my pneumatic soul is NOT OF THIS WORLD, I managed to listen to it and realize what my true nature is.

>>15152348
Hey alexa why does Ashera have a pee-pee?

>>15152382
did you *listen* to it? did it communicate with you trapped in body? did you realize it while you yourself is in the corporeal world?

>>15152399
Yes I "listened" to it with my spiritual ears you hyletic. It was like a spark finally set ablaze becoming more and more clear to my spiritual "eyes" if you may.
Of course this realization made me question who I truly am, I do not identify with my mortal body anymore. I'm a spirit in the material world

God didn't think we were ready for the true picture yet.

>>15146279
Nice try but that wasn't the true Christian god.

>>15146279
You are closer but you don't really get it. Go more on /x. Read gnosis material.

>>15152149
>no true Scotsman

>>15152492
Right wing people are the ones redpilled on the JQ, by knowing (((their))) ways you start avoiding their traps like porn, shitty food, consooming useless crap, media and so on... but you still worship their tribal god and consider a rebellious rabbi as a God/Lord/your personal saviour. It makes zero sense

>>15152433
*hits bong*

>>15152573
That's exactly what a hylic would do.
I go through periods of prolonged fasting and seclusion in order to make the vail dissapear

>>15152567
This

>>15152632
dude pass the reefer lmao

>>15146300
Christianity is the onions religion.

>>15148089
>If people pointing out the herd mentality of your fellow travellers makes you mad

The only thing we're discussing here is atheism. It's no skin off my nose if someone's concept of an atheist is caught up w/ factoids he picked up while people watching on web forums. You are muddling intellectual matters with memes.

>>15152567
A lack of internal consistency does not disqualify a rightist.

>>15150875
Thanks for the substantive contribution to this shit thread. Where can I read more about the various conceptions of the whale/great fish?

Of related interest is the evolution of the concept of Satan from the Book of Job to Milton.

>>15146279
Someone just found RationalWiki has he? Go on, tickle yer bollocks, tickle yer bollocks.

>>15153524
Atheism isn't an intellectual matter, it's a vegetable matter. Specifically relating to the cultivation of onions.

>>15149462
Check out this weeping anus missing the point of the NEW TESTAMENT. Haw Haw Haw!

>>15152632
You sound based, but if what you say is true, you are supposed to help them see.

>>15146279
>A number of scholars have drawn the conclusion that infant sacrifice, whether to the underworld deity Molech or to Yahweh himself, was a part of Israelite/Judahite religion until the reforms of King Josiah in the late 7th century BCE. Prayer played little role in official worship.

I'm gonna need some proof on that one, chief. You're no better than the j*urnalists who say "sources confirmed..." without actually giving sources