/lit/ - Literature

long asuka is loooooooooonnnnnnngggggggg!

>>15196987
Asuka is mine everybody in this thread better back off!

>>15197027
Who cares about bratsuka. Rei best girl

>>15196987
the whale in moby dick

>>15197027
nobody wants that tsundere bitch, Rei is the best girl who will not treat us like shit

>>15196987
Anna Karenina

Nastasya Filippovna

>>15197040
>>15197051
imagine being such a loser pushover that you are intimidated by the playful jabs of a 14 year old girl. Pathetic.

>>15196987
Elizabeth Bennett

>>15197139
>playful jabs
She was an insecure cunt. Fuck off rei wins

>>15197149
The only reason you like Rei is because she's a robot doll who can't feel human emotions, which you relate to as an aspie, and you want to manipulate and control her into being your obedient housewife cuz ur scared of a woman with any hint of a personality

>>15197159
Irrational anger is not a personality

>>15196987
On second thought I think this is new best girl although I am still not certain. She isn't a tsundere is she? I think I'm finally over Asuka and realize she is the incorrect choice.

out of the way nerds

What does /lit/ think of visual novel games? Are they still literature? I have the one for Steins;gate which I only played for about 20 minutes and ended up watching the first season of the show instead.

>>15197264
>visual novels
Can't stand them. Even when they're not the lowest brow shit-tier "average guy marries multiple cute girls" shit, I can't get over having to click every time I want to read a new line of text, and go through a slideshow of pictures to get to a new paragraph. And I want to form characters in my head, not have them drawn and animated for me.
They're dumber than picture story books, because at least they're made for kids that can't read. VNs are for when you're too fucking lazy to imagine a picture.

>>15197357
Thank you good to know I didn't waste my time. I think I agree with your points and won't pursue them anymore.

>>15196987
Fuck off tranny.
>>15197200
>>15197264
You too.

Naomi

Zinaida from First Love by Turgenev

There are none because literature requires actual writing, not just mindlessly copy pasted tropes.

>>15197159

>>15197630
>he thinks that the Western Canon itself isn't full of tropes

>>15196987
Agláya

>>15196987
Kate - Taming of the Shrew

>>15197042
Unironically this

>>15197357
The fun of visual novels (when they actually are good) isn't the visuals its actually the audio (music and if available voices).

When a track is used at the perfect timing and completely resonates with the mood of the scene that the words have conveyed, its a more powerful experience then any standalone reading experience I had with a regular book. Granted, few VNs manage to achieve that kino.

Aglaia from the Idiot is pretty tsundere

>>15196987
>Butterfly

>>15197053
not at all, she's like the russian version of Karen's (pretty appropriate given her name lmao)

>>15196987
Nastasya Filippovna

>Catherine Linton (Wuthering Heights)
She's a pluperfect bitch to Hareton until they finally decide they really do like one another.

>Lydia, Anna, Ursula, Gudrun (The Rainbow Women in Love)
All D.H.Lawrence's women have a little bit of the tsundere in them. Or more than a little bit.

>Emma Woodhouse (Emma)
People might say Elizabeth Bennett, but she isn't really. Emma is the big tsundere, a perfect example of someone deceiving herself about her own feelings on one level even while, on another level, she knows perfectly well what they are. It takes the serious idea of Harriet actually marrying Mr. Knightly to bring her to her senses.

>Gruschenka, The Brothers Karamazov
Poor Dmitri. She really does give him a hard time. It's not much consolation that she gives herself just as hard a one.

>Nastasya (The Idiot)
Obviously. The End Boss of literary tsunderes.

>>15196987
William S Burroughs

>>15198269
thats a mtf right?

>>15196987
Sonoko from Confessions of a Mask

>>15198368
>Emma is the big tsundere
Never bothered with the novel but the film she's archetypically tsundere.

>>15197256

I've come to realize that Americans, who have no sense of tact, subtlety, for whom everything has to be made big and obvious, for whom the most valuable personality traits are confidence and assertiveness, inevitably come to prefer Asuka, with her loud shenanigans, foolhardy confidence, and a small mind which they can relate to, simply because they do not possess the ability to understand Rei.
Europeans, on the other hand, and to some extent the Japanese have the ability to look past the surface. Loud speaking, assertive poses, put on vigor will not affect their opinion as much as that of americans. As they are cultured people, they view such personality traits as more obnoxious than attractive. What matters to them is your insights, your resilience, your ability to make good judgements when they matter. They quickly come to see through Asuka and all her vanity, and regard Rei as a deeply complex and an interesting character.
This trend is most clearly illustrated in the type of film the two different types of people produce. Whenever an american mentions European cinema, you know it will likely be a subtle, thought-provoking film, not afraid to take its time and aimed not just to entertain the viewer, as it's not a circus, but to leave a lasting impact on him, ideally teaching him something about himself and others. Tarkovsky, Fellini, Bergman, Truffaut, Antonioni, Almodovar, Haneke are among the most successful movie directors in Europe, and all of their films share these qualities.
As for american movies, it suffices to look at their biggest box office hits. They are star wars, marvel movies, fast and furious (movies about tough guys driving cars fast).
The inevitable conclusion that one comes to see is that Rei is, indeed, best girl and only uncultured swine will say otherwise.

>>15198436
Who are some literature characters like Misato? Kind of a loose woman, but with good morals and a sound framework of right and wrong, who has an ambivalent relationship with a ward placed under her care? Also has to have daddy issues, I suppose.

>>15198264
So what does it have over just plain watching an anime? You get to play some crappy minigames? I'm not so slow enough reader to tolerate listening to the entire voice line, either.
The only thing they have over watching an anime is being able to "choose" different paths.
They're better than their book equivalent (light novels), but nowhere near as good as a proper book.
They're the equivalent of an audiobook of the womens' erotic werewolf fiction with titles like "Bound to the Demon King" you'd find in a discount box.

>>15198569
>Who are some literature characters like Misato? Kind of a loose woman, but with good morals and a sound framework of right and wrong, who has an ambivalent relationship with a ward placed under her care? Also has to have daddy issues, I suppose.
My diary desu

>>15198565
No. The difference between Asuka and Rei is that behind Asuka's arrogance is actually someone sweet and compassionate who has just been hurt. A real person, unlike Rei.

Asuka is the mirror image of Shinji. Essentially they are the same character, but represent the shadows of their opposite. She just is as kind as Shinji is deep down.

Even discounting that though Asuka actually has a spirit and drive to achieve. She is obviously intelligent, capable, and free thinking. Rei is literally a slave to the orders of her masters. Basically an automoton.

There is much more understand to Asuka than being just being a tsundere. If you cross the border of her facade you get something true, something real, that you can hold and touch. You cross that border with Rei and you get nothing. You are left alone just like Shinji was. That is the real difference.

>>15198665
>something true, something real, that you can hold and touch

>>15198267
Myshkin is also as dumb as Shinji

>>15198665
>>15198565
It's been twenty five years, find new waifus to argue about

>>15198570
There is a huge difference between VNs and anime, and good reason to prefer the latter.

While both utilize visuals and audio, the context is totally different. An anime has to tell its story within a ~20 minute time block with room for advertisements to interrupt every 5 - 9 minutes. This fundamentally effects the structure of how it gets written. Not to mention that aside from audio, the primary form of communicating is through animation. Meaning the visual component is most significant with audio coming in second.

With VNs the visuals only really serve a purpose to communicate a background of information that the writing puts into greater context. The visuals exist primarily to buttress the context of the writing, and the audio enhances the mood of the writing. Not to mention that like a book a VN is a completed work. The writer has nearly as much power in the pacing he wants to tell the story as a novelist would. When watching an anime you have to follow the Director's pace, and the writing is severely limited to having it fit into a 20 minute format. Typically making a beginning, middle and end structure for every 20 minute episode.

In short, a VN when it capitalizes on its potential is essentially an enhanced book. Having the strengths that books do, but having sensory additions (visuals audio) to enhance the experience. While few manage to utilize this potential, there some that do and they have been an enormous pleasure to read through.

(I will cede that even among the best VNs I read their prose rarely compare to the prose of a well-written book. But again it isn't as necessary when you have appropriate visuals and audio supporting the writing. Infact ornate prose can be redundant when you've already communicated the point via the visuals/audio.)

>>15197357
I think you've been playing the wrong games hombre

>>15197256
Let the boys argue, Misato is for men.
>>15198565
European cinema is incestuous money making scheme that tries to pass as entertainment or art.

>>15198832
Misato is a low IQ whore. No moral barometer, boring personality, easily swayed by others.

>>15198832
Misato best grill

>>15197256
>>15198832
MisatoChads represent.
In all seriousness i've gravitated towards each of the three at different points in my life, it's amazing how perfect the waifu matrix Anno created was.

>>15198349
cringe
DostoCucks are pathetic

>>15197042

>>15198269
I've had butterfly filtered for ages now and I must say the browsing experience is much more enjoyable

>>15198792
>same 5 tracks play on loop for 50+ hours
WOAH VNS REALLY TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THE AUDIO ASPECTS

>>15201428
The idea of women being near you makes you physically uncomfortable

>>15201463
what

>post Evangelion chick image
>instant waifu war
feels good

>>15197042
based

>>15201499
I wonder if it'll ever stop.

>>15201853
Speaking of that image, Achilles is tsundere as fuck

>>15198873
Morality would only get in the way of her Promethean aspirations for humanity

>>15201884
never. Faggots will stop saying based and cringe before the waifu war ever stops.

>>15201913
It already ended a long time ago. Everyone knows Misato won

>>15201916
>driedupslutfag
That's you on the right btw.

>>15201931
she has only had sex with one person. not a slut

>>15201943
>this old cope again
why do misatofags do it to themselves

>Notice me, kid. Uguuu...
>You ain't nothin... baka, Judge.

>>15201971
by contemporary standards she's a prude. good luck finding a girl her age today who has only had sex with one person

>>15201987
>tries to fuck a kid
>manipulates a besotted underling incel to helping through power of tits
>a prude

>>15201913
As a side note it's funny that at 25 years old and still watched by most anime fans, NGE is as canonical as it gets within its medium, yet for literature 25 years old is practically newborn. I do wonder if such a "lowbrow" medium could produce something that's still watched in thousands of years.

>>15202010
She has a Faustian spirit, and will use any means to reach her ends. She is based.

>>15202015
I reckon Eva has a better chance than most of what has come out in the last 30 years. But it's impossible to say. Despite what Ben Jonson said in his eulogy, I doubt any of Shakespeare's contemporaries truly ever believed that punk midlands actor would be considered the greatest writer of all time at least a couple of centuries after his death. Greatness and posterity are as much to do with luck as with skill.

>>15202062
What a convoluted way of saying she's a whore.

>>15198565
I'm American and I like Rei.

>>15203331
You're one of the (very few) cultured ones then.

>>15197200
Suzuha? No. Kurisu is the tsundere in S;G. There's nothing tsun about Suzuha.

>>15202104
I think for it to survive it'd have to be an anime that could never be expressed as well in any other medium except anime itself (The same way Don Quixote uses the fact that it's a book to its advantage) so you're quite right it may be Eva, or maybe one of the other more meta/deconstruction anime.

OP here. I didn't mean to bring the waifu wars to /lit/. Maybe I should have started the thread with a pic of Taiga from Toradora.

>>15198665
This is exactly right. And at the end of the story there is hope that these two may, ahem, repopulate the earth.

Alternatively, Shinji and Asuka grew up, 10 years later, in an alternate (?) universe, to become Case and Molly, respectively.

>>15196987
Odette de Crecy from Swann's Way is one, but with the opposite of the normal progression for that archetype.

>>15197264
Read Higurashi, Umineko and White Album 2. To fully enjoy WA2 you'll need to be proficient at moon, but it's great. SG is gay but Kurisu is cute. Majikoi and Rance are tons of fun. Skip Fate. Have heard good things about Fata morgana as well.

>>15205477
Higurashi and Umineko are both great, but I wouldn't recommend them to someone new to VNs unless if they are okay with stories that take a while to get really interesting. They definitely reward patience however.


If somebody is completely new to VNs I would recommend these:

Swan Song: Well paced and interesting story, but can be really bleak.

Narcissu: Not only is it short and free, but its probably one of the best VNs I ever read. It is depressing however.

Symphonic Rain: If you want something comfy which also has some gameplay elements. It also has a fantastic plot twist.

Yume Miru Kusuri: If you want well written HS drama.

Saya no Uta: If you like Lovecraftian horror.

Katawa Shoujo: If you just want a comfy experience.

>>15196987
Beatrice from Much Ado