/lit/ - Literature

>>15397232
higher mental capacity with stronger immersion into the language by being well-read than you ever will be most likely.
also english is disgustingly simple language compared to the slavic beauty that is russian

>>15397259
BLYAT

>>15397232
>I've spoken English my whole life,
So did he. He had an old Scottish woman for a maid as a child.
But also he's just plain better than you, as I wrote in another thread, he was tutored not just in the technique of painting by Peter Ustinov's distant cousin, but on the mnemonic technique to recall colors, gestures, shapes and other hyper specific details. Which paid huge dividends in his work.

>>15397264
>maids
>tutors
What the hell is that supposed to mean?
I've always been told that Russian people live in extreme poverty. Was he born to some descendant of the Romanov czars or what?

>>15397294
most russian, especially pre-soviet classics came from wealthy and noble families. if you're baiting, thats 6/10, worth a reply

>>15397315
>pre-soviet
>Nabokov

>>15397232
Nabokov's case is not so impressive.

Conrad's is. It's crazy, even.

>>15397322
Idiot.

>>15397232

1. He grew up speaking English, French and Russian, so he isn't really ESL.

2. Having the perspective of another language often helps a writer, the same way that a foreign-born speaker often sounds nice because they give English a distinctive little twist of their own.

3. There are lots of other writers whose prose was at least as beautiful. You probably just haven't read them because /lit/ doesn't obsess over them the way it does over VN. If it's mellifluous elegance you want, try Pater or De Quincey or F. Scott Fitzgerald, etc.

>>15397232
Conrad was an ESL and he's also one of the best

>>15397367
>He grew up speaking English, French and Russian, so he isn't really ESL.
Simultaneous learners still count as L2 learners, especially if his parents predominantly spoke Russian at home.

>>15397379
Well you can call it what you want, but obviously he's not in the same category as, say, Conrad, who was raised by wolves and literally didn't encounter human speech until he was ninety years old.

Also the fact that Nabokov's *parents* spoke mostly Russian isn't as big a deal as it might seem, because he was raised in an aristocratic-style household where he spent a lot more time with his nanny/tutor than with his parents. And the nanny/tutor spoke English and French.

1. He was a genetic wonder. Born into an aristocratic Russian family with ties to German and French nobility. The family name Nabokov comes from Nabok, a tartar prince.

2. He spoke English growing up, read all of the major English authors by age 13/14.

He kept a dictionary and thesaurus at his side at all times.

>>15397232
Why do Angloids are so easily impressed? His florid Latinate prose is cringe and gay.

>>15398882
They lack refinement. They are impressed with anything shiny.

>>15397294
He was rich as fuck. The Nabokovs were among the most prominent noble families in Russia before the revolution. Image is the house he inherited at 15.

>>15399006
This is why capitalism is bad.

>>15399015
The Nabokovs exemplified nobility you retard. Not capitalism.

>>15399058
Even worse.

>>15399006
I sometimes think about this. A young nobleman groomed to become the leader of a business empire. Then the revolution happens and he ends up in US. To make ends meet he had to give tennis lessons. Imagine him, a born and bred well taught aristocrat having to teach tennis to gum-chewing nouveau riche waspy assholes. No wonder he became bitter and only found happiness in entomology.

>>15397232
He has a highly latinate vocabulary and structure to his sentences, so my suspicion is he studied Latin seriously at some point, regardless the influence on his English is apparent. He also worked with a multivolume dictionary within arms reach. I wouldn't be surprised if he just sat and read through the dictionary circling pretty words.

>>15399381
>I wouldn't be surprised if he just sat and read through the dictionary circling pretty words.
I can respect this kind of autism.

>>15397232
Read his memoir. He began learning English when he was very young and was reading English classics when we were still reading Frog and Toad.

>>15399381
>He has a highly latinate vocabulary and structure to his sentences, so my suspicion is he studied Latin seriously at some point
Nah, that's just his French side coming out. You dont have to study Latin in order to have a Latinate vocab.

>>15397232
Russians are just good at this sort of thing. Even translated russian somehow sounds so moving compared to something written primarily in english.

>>15399438
>Even translated russian somehow sounds so moving compared to something written primarily in english.
That's the work of the translator though, not the original writer's.

>>15397349
>Nabokov's case is not so impressive.
>Conrad's is. It's crazy, even
Do tell me, why?

>>15397483
>Conrad, who was raised by wolves and literally didn't encounter human speech until he was ninety years old.
Wtf?? Are serious? Is this some kind of roman myth-making?

>>15398868
>He kept a dictionary and thesaurus at his side at all times.
Is this true?

>>15397232
He wasn't really ESL. He was literate in English before even Russian. Conrad is more impressive, he was a legit ESL.
>>15397367
I'm not sure he spoke English growing up, but he was literate in it. Very different things. You can tell because of his grotesque and ugly accent when he spoke English.

>>15397294
The guy started writing in english cuz his family was kicked out by communists literally.

>>15397367
Reminds me of Varoufakis, who speaks eloquent english with hellenic origins prose.

>>15398882
He has an exquisite way of framing things. For example, he referred to the mind in one of his books as, 'the top of the tingling spine'. That is something that, when you read it as an aspiring 'great writer', causes you to lose heart in your prospects completely.
>>15399323
Read his memoirs. He was doing entomology since he was a child in Russia. At a young age he made a minor entomological discover: a new species of moth or butterfly.

>>15400843
Well, he came from a family of liberal bourgeois Jews, so he was rightfully scared of the early commies

Conrad is strange, I have a question for anglos, can you understand his writings?

>>15397232
Spoke English and French with his multiple nannies since very young age, though I refuse to call him a trilingual native (why would you trust what a creative writer writes in their autobiography? Think of Schliemann) his inability to speak off the top of his head (he always prepared cards for any interview) and the fact that his accent is a bit off (he's trying to mimic old RP similar to one in, say, Russell's interview).
Knew a lot about art from a young age. His father had a game: the one to name the biggest number of characters written by the same author wins - he could name 300+ of Dickens'.
Studied French literature in Cambridge, read all his life, wrote from a very young age.
>>15397754
>The family name Nabokov comes from Nabok, a tartar prince.
If you dig deeper you'll find that that's just an anecdote he heard and found hilarious
>>15399006
Upper class of course, but not the most prominent and noble. And he inherited that house at 17.
>>15399323
Most likely if the revolution didn't happen he would have ended up a liberal politician akin to his father. While living in Berlin he made the most by giving boxing lessons.
>>15399381
I have this suspicion as well, he often just quotes entire sentences in Latin
>>15400820
He claims to have learnt to read in English before he did so in Russian
>>15400895
He was liberal in the classic European sense and was not Jewish, although he married a Jewish lady because he needed protection from emigre 'liberal intelligentsia'

>>15402054
His oral English was shit while his oral French was good. He's an oddity.

>>15399381
>sat and read through the dictionary circling pretty words.
I'm gonna do this desu.

>>15401351
Conrad honestly has some of the oddest prose I've read in English. It's not bad, it's just off

>>15402054
He was Jewish, go read about his father's pro-Zionist activities, that plus marrying a Jew is pretty suspicious. And yeah no shit he was a classical liberal, you think Bolsheviks like any kinds of liberals? lol
>>15400813
Yeah it's true, you can tell in his writing by how artificial his diction comes off

>>15402086
It's a good exercise but I would follow Flaubert's le mot just approach rather than Nabokov's pompous artifices.

>>15402077
https://youtu.be/9zK8ybnU6hc?t=1738
That's how his sister spoke English, so I think he definitely worked on improving it after he emigrated.
https://youtu.be/Ldpj_5JNFoA
Is it really that bad? I don't think it's that bad for a Russian speaker, who set his foot on English soil in his early twenties

>>15402109
Sorry to burst your bubble, but most zionists are christian.

>>15402109
He looked very Jewy. And in the afterword to Lolita says interracial marriage and reproduction is all good. Add to that disliking Christian authors like Dostoyevksy... My (((radar))) has detected (((something))).

>>15402111
It's really bad. You can hear how his fluent French has ruined his English. He sounds like a French man speaking English. He chose French for his oral communication but English for his written one. Not a bad deal overall.

>>15402157
Based. Fuck Nabokov.

>>15402133
Bruh, just put 2+2 together, think for one fucking second, read about his father, he was a prominent Zionist in Russia; they came from a bourgeois and rich family; he dad was literally a journo LMAO people in his family were friends with Ayn Rand, like just put 2 and 2 together like this anon did >>15402157

>>15402109
You are of uncommon intelligence if you think that he is Jewish.
Russia was very anti-Semitic back in the day and there is a very minor number of aristocratic families of Jewish origins.
His father defended the Jewish because he was a liberal demagogue similar to modern day ultra PC US democrats and to a larger extent because he was an Anglophile. I tend to think he probably received lots of money from the English crown for denouncing the tzar and his regime.
The ulterior motive of marrying Vera was that her father owned a publishing house in Berlin. Besides that, given that his father protected the Jews so much, they had to somewhat return the favour, them being more influential than the average broke Russian emigre in Berlin or Paris due to the nature of their origin.
>>15402157
>And in the afterword to Lolita says interracial marriage and reproduction is all good
Would you be so kind to provide us with a quote?
>Add to that disliking Christian authors like Dostoyevsky.
He disliked Dostoyevsky because he addressed the same topics in a completely different way, the opposite side of the coin. And most of his bashing the classics is a publicity stunt.

He was basically American. AFAIK he spent most of his life in the US. He was Russian by ethnicity

>>15402237
>You are of uncommon intelligence if you think that he is Jewish.
Yes, you are correct. My intelligence is so great that it is rather uncommon. Thank you.

>>15397264
Where can I learn about these mnemonic techniques?

>>15402255
21 year in Russia, 3 years in the UK, 15 years in Berlin, 3 years in France, 21 years in the US, 16 years in Switzerland
>>15402285
You're welcome, my dearest friend
>>15402297
Keep in mind he was also synaesthesic, which affects the way your memory works quite a lot

>>15402237
Nabokov uses typical Jewish subversive themes like pedophilia, pro-interracial reproduction, and atheism.

>>15402255
>He was basically American.
Not really.
>He was Russian by ethnicity
By birth as well. Also half of his novels were written originally in Russian.

>>15402313
Lmao he's just dunking on burgers you dumbass.
Back to /pol/ with you.

>>15402313
Also, he called the negative reactions to people not liking interracial marriage, atheism, and pedophilia "amusing"

>>15402313
are you retarded

>>15402353
No no no retard, you got it all wrong, you have to go back to r*ddit

>>15402305
I don't doubt that, but to some extent, every poet can tap into a synaesthesia of sorts.
I'm interested in the specific mnemonics though.

>>15402360
post your nose

>>15402313
Are you familiar with confirmation bias?
None of his Russian books are provocative, he only wrote provocatively in English because he didn't want to be poor forever so he had to attract interest to his persona.

>>15402360
He was laughing at people who didn't like niggers banging white wymen in books >>15402358 and also children getting raped by old men

The atheist one is kinda petty, but the other two are gross and i get why he found it shocking
>"NOOOO YOU CAN'T GET MAD AT MY PEDOPHILE BOOK!!!"
>"WWWWWHATTTT AMERICANS DON'T LIKE NIGGERS FUCKING THEIR WOMEEEEEN OMGGGGGG"

>>15402313
sounds like a jew alright. who even defines coal-burning as "glorious"? peak kikery.

>>15402385
*don't get

>>15402382
>None of his Russian books are provocative
The Enchanter is the proto-Lolita.

>>15402405
>goes to america
>"wait these people are repulsed by interracial marriage and pedophilia?"
>:^)
>writes book about an old man fucking a child
>*public is repulsed"
>NOOOOO YOU CAN'T GET MAD AT MY SUBJECT MATTERINOOOOOOO
>THIS IS JUST HOW YOU DON'T LIKE THE GLORIOUS INTERRACIAL MARRIAGES YOU BACKWARDS PRUDERINOOOOOS
nabokov was a peak faggot, can't stand that bug, jewish or not ethnically, he definitely was one spiritually and temperamentally

>>15402442
Well, yes, but it's not actual Lolita, where a careless reader might think that it glorifies paedophilia. It's in the vein of his other Russian short stories.

I managed to write a 52k words novel once despite being an ESL, then I realized I couldn't plan ahead or improve my descriptive skills for shit and decided to stick with poetry. Seeing how infantile the whole thing was I'll probably never continue it.

>>15397259
>also english is disgustingly simple language compared to the slavic beauty that is russian

"Body language, poses, landscapes, slumber of trees, smells, rains, melting and shapeshifting hues of the nature, all that is gentle and human (surprisingly!), and everything masculine, rough, juicily vulgar turns out in Russian just as good, if not even better than in English. But so common to English things subtle and unspoken, poetry of thought, immediate exchange between the most abstract ideas, scampering of one-syllable qualifiers — all this, as well as everything relating to technology, fashions, sports, natural sciences and unnatural urges — becomes in Russian shackled, multi-syllabled, and often disgusting in the sense of style and rhythm."

t. Nabokov

>>15399413
>we were still reading Frog and Toad.

read this last week for the first time and had a list of 30 vocabulary words I had to look up or check

life in quarantine

>>15402507
>MULTY-SYLABLES BAD NOOOOOOOO DON'T USE LONG WORDERINOS

>>15402507
Russian is unnecessarily conservative and hardly accessible for any neo-latin language speaker let alone a monolingual anglo. Writing a coherent sentence is a pain in the ass even for an experienced uni student who is accustomed to speak it on a daily basis.

>>15402555
sounds based.
conservative languages keep the niggers and SJWs away.

>>15402452
>>15402529
Man, what the fuck is wrong with you. If you're going to be a retarded faggot could you please do so without smearing shit all over yourself?

>>15402571
and yet russia is full of faggots and trannies, the russian tranny meme isn't just a myth.

>>15402573
>NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO LEAVE FAGGY NABBY ALONE, Y-YOU CAN'T SHITPOST ABOUT MY GODERINO, MY WIFE'S BOYFRIEND DOESN'T LIKE THIS

>>15402574
what's the russian tranny myth?

>>15402555
I agree. Soviet medical textbooks read as very bad imitations of Leo Tolstoy, since every Russian wants to write in a beautiful flowery manner but scientific texts just turn out to be overcomplicated with unnecessary clauses and polysyllabic words.

>>15402593
Why are you reheating year old /tv/ memes on /lit/

>>15402596
Russians on 4chan will try to convince you they are strictly heterosexual and despise gay people and trannies whilst having a whole board dedicated to trannies in their national imageboard.

>>15402610
So basically like Americans?

>>15402647
americans have constant gay pride parades what are you talking about

>>15402647
americans are open about their trannies and throw parades every month of the year, russians pretend to be straight until their fragile heterosexuality is unveiled.

>>15402647
KEK. GOTTEM

>>15402654
Yet they say they hate faggots and trannies online.

>>15402610
>whilst having a whole board dedicated to trannies in their national imageboard.

Very disappointing board, too. I came across it searching for rare amateur trap pron but it turns out it's just a board where trannies share tips on how to be better trannies.

t. former coomer

>>15397232
use a dictionary

>>15402507
What a faggot.

you know nabokov is based when his detractors reveal themselves to be poltards and soijak posters

>>15403136
that makes him reddit, though.

>>15399405
>>15402086
Nick Cave did the same. Just this year I saw an exhibit with one of his 'diaries' that they had opened up to a list of Greek-route words.
Feels like something Bowie would do too.
Start your Hypomnemata just like Aulus Gellius
>>15402297
If I remember correctly it's mostly about trying to visualize a thing even when your eyes are closed. Rather than just saying "picture a flower" you try to recall each petal, the way it bends, the texture of each petal.

>>15403768
But that's not mnemonic as I understand it. It's sounds more like a visualization practice.

>read and study every day
>edit your writing multiple times

>>15400813
As the other anon mentioned, you could tell Nabokov kept them handy. He was an eliteist try hard that thought he was better than everyone almost all the greats in literature. However, he wasn't satisfied with just thinking he was so great. Instead he had to "prove" how great he was to everyone. Evevn more so he had to prove it to themselves. A lot of anons fit that description. Hence why Nabokov is so esteemed around here.

>>15403222
Nabokov ridiculed “progressive” types a lot. You just don't read books to learn about it.

>>15402313
>Taking any Nabokov interview seriously
I bet you think he 100% believed he was better than Dosto too
>>15405351
this, I've never seen someone take a hacksaw to Freud so eagerly. I mean Pnin's ex-wife's son, the child of two psychologists who are horrified to learn that he was absolutely normal. Does anyone have that greentext of the virgin who was obsessed by mommy porn because of his mother.
Nabokov posed the opposite: a child without anal retention, penis fixation, or odedipal desires which to his Freudian parents seemed more odd!
Mmmmm dats good satire.

>>15402507
Since when is Nabokov’s opinion on literally anything given any weight whatsoever? His first-rate prose notwithstanding.

>>15400820
He relates, in speak memory, his father lamenting his superior reading skills in English