/lit/ - Literature

because people have opinions

>>15409062
I don't know, I'm not a fuckin' psychic. Ask them yourself.

You shouldn't try to understand bugmen. They're a lower species.

Do you think Zizek says this?

>>15409068
wow really good opinion there mister epistemological nihilist you have really brought a lot to this discussion with your insightful comment

>>15409084
case in point

>>15409077
Yeah he often says that spirituality is "bullshit" or "stupid" or "obscene". And he said that all intelligent theologians know that God and Jesus in the Bible are just a metaphor and not literal.

most of that kind of drivel is coming from jews who want to erode goyim morality & spiritual beliefs

>>15409175
I don't think you've read zizek

Because nothing spiritual has ever been scientifically proven

>>15409254
and nothing scientific has been spiritually proven (both meaningless statements)

>>15409072
How is the primacy of the materialism of the signifier a bugman position?

>>15409278
All materialism is bugman-like.

>>15409062
Because for someone educated in the West nowdays is far easier to believe in materialism than in any kind of God.

They believe this because "science" (science that, conveniently, they usually don't know anything about) says it and is, therefore, "demonstrated". For them, what has been demonstrated, has been demonstrated and thus shall be believed (or more like known) and that what has not been (yet) demonstrated, will be in a undefined future and until then believing is not important.

Ironically, this implies that those who only guide themselves by the "scientific truth" also have faith, in the sense they believe that everything can be demonstrated by mathemathical and physical facts and proofs, even if there is really no evidence of this.

>>15409254
The validity of science can’t be scientifically proven

>>15409062
Because that's the truth of the matter.

>>15409305
Quite so. Good post anon.

>>15409099
i want to physically beat you to death with my opinion
i want to see your smug aloof nihilism dissolve into panicked screaming as i wail on your dumb fucking face with my opinion until i smash your teeth in and break your fucking skull open and keep hitting you over and over until your cries for help turn into a low gurgling and then stop altogether, and then i'd keep at it for another few minutes just to be sure. there is nothing i'd like more in the world than to keep asking you, in between every swing of my opinion, what you thought of it, and then respond to your frantic pleading and begging for your life with "well that's just your opinion, man". i want to explain to you with actual physical violence what words mean so that you can spend the last few brutish and immensely painful moments of your life reflecting on the lesson in meaning i would have taught you by slowly and gleefully removing your atrophied brain from its bony prison. i want to etch my argument on the inside of your skull, i want to stab you in the eye with my point, i want to use your mangled corpse as a monument to my opinion

>>15409350
Woah... Can you really do that??

>>15409350
And that is also just your opinion

>>15409350
it keeps happening

>>15409062
we believe in spirituality, we've just been convince to apply it to materialist things

>>15409889
What does this mean?

>>15409889
that's fundamentally materialist at its core.

Because they aren't materialists, they're just Liberals. 99.99% of the time anyone whining about "materialism" has no idea what that means and equates it with hedonism. I'm pretty sure part of the problem is that Nick Fuentes misused the term and now it's entered the vocabularies of legions of dumb 16 year olds who think "materialism = anything not BASED trad catholicism".

>>15409923
Zizek is not a liberal. He doesn't like liberalism.

>>15409350
Just put your hand on the stove bro

>>15409923
You're rambling, boy. You're talking nonsense. I don't think YOU know what materialism means.

>>15409062
because they were conditioned to be that way by their environment. im in australia and the average person might have set foot in a church once or twice in their life. if you ask them what religion they are they'll say i dont know, or 'my mum says were anglican'

>>15409292
Guess Lacan is a bugman then

>>15409062
because materialism is more amenable to the empirical sciences, so long as you don't fuck yourself up by reading Kant

>>15409923
Rent free.

>>15409350
uh oh angyy

>>15409062
Because no one has ever proved "spirituality"?

>>15410179
Prove science. Prove it right now.

>>15410179
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s0afjI-vYQs

>>15409305
Wrong. This is a simple case of burden of proof. If you claim something is true then you are expected to be able to prove it. Otherwise no one is obligated to believe you.

>>15410193
It's already been proven. Go to an academic journal and you will see science proven. Now prove spirituality.

>>15410193
So you admit that there is no proof of spirituality? If you admit it I'll "prove science"

>>15410229
watch this >>15410202

materialism is insufficiently dialectical

>>15409062
Historical materialism isn't mutually exclusive with spirituality.
Tho i believe historical dialectical materialism in the commie sense is flawed, it's useful, but limited, and i dislike that most lefties haven't been successful in amending it.

>>15410202
A 1 hour YouTube video? Ain't nobody got time for that. Show me a paper written by that dude

>>15410256
Can one believe in spirituality and be a communist? I have been told that any kinds of idealist views are fundamentally antithetical to communist thought.

>>15409062
The disagreement is such a fundamental one that it's bound to manifest in exaggerated hostility and oversimplification. Both sides of the issue are mired in psychological conceit.

Wiser physicalists recognize that spiritualism/religiosity provides important utility to most people, and that there isn't as yet a healthy secular substitute for those functions. It is a mistake to ignore/dissemble the pragmatic assessment because of one's ontological position.

>>15409225
No they haven't. Misunderstandings, like always.

>>15410280
Wiser physicalists realize their own system is faith based as well.

>>15410301
Zizek has said it quite explicitly. His only acceptance of "spirituality" is in the metaphorical sense of how Jesus's death on the cross represents giving us the freedom of choice and teaching us to love each other. He talks about God a lot but not in a literal sense.

>>15410202
I'm a fan of technical heretic... It's still an extra jump from potentially unrecognized mental phenomena to 'evidence of spirituality'. Good channel though.

>>15410313
It isn't faith based. Any intellectually honest physicalist would be willing to reconsider their position in light of evidence to the contrary.

>>15410331
Usually, materialist are not against the conception of god. They criticize the organized, hierarchical church. What's more, they criticize the fact that idealist think praying for God can change our destiny, when in reality, praying won't change much if we don't change our material social relationships.

>>15410375
Yes it is, it is impossible to prove reality is solely physical. Physics is purely about building useful models, not about providing insights into the fundamental nature of reality. It's part of the reason people entertain notions like the simulation hypothesis: we just plain don't have access to all of reality.

The best physicalists can do is say their position is likely (and handwave away severe gaps in it like Dennett does with the hard problem of consciousness).

>>15410465
What does Dennett even do? What is his philosophy other than atheism?

>>15410268
>Can one believe in spirituality and be a communist?
Many Arab and Latin American communists do so

>>15410268
Basically materialism isn't necessarily dismissive of spirituality, it just suppose the base has more influence on our life than the superstructure.

>>15409175
>he said that all intelligent theologians know that God and Jesus in the Bible are just a metaphor and not literal
what's wrong with this statement? you believe zombie Jesus hulked his way out of a cave and flew up into heaven? are you 12?

>You know, I'm thinking of this dirty joke *sniff*, the Serbian guy smells the ass of the Croatian guy and so on and then they shake hands ahaha
>But my claim here, is that old-school Leninists, like Stalin, were in a sense idealists. Idealism was the Big Other, and they tried, *sniff* ironically, to hide this by justifying the regime as dialectical, like oh mein gott, this is the last stage of socialism, and Stalin is the logical conclusion of nature, blahblahblah, you know...
>It's like, *sniff* I'm sorry to repeat myself here, coffee without cream...

>>15410465
It's impossible to prove anything (other than tautologies and apodictic truths which prove themselves). That's not the point. You're saying physicalism is "faith based" but it quite clearly isn't — it's evidence based.

The thing is, 99% of your every day actions revolve around acceptance of what evidence indicates as probable. You conveniently suspend this mode of assessment, however, when it comes to psychologically 'touchy' issues and hypocritically pretend that evidence doesn't constitute a standard when debating them.

me touch material but me no touch spirit

>>15410753
>It's impossible to prove anything (other than tautologies and apodictic truths which prove themselves).
Even things like that still rely on logic which you cannot prove to be valid.

>>15410739
Are Zizek's books more coherent than when he is speaking?

>>15410782
The only one I have read was a collection of nerdy jokes for philosophy students, and it is worse than his lectures, but his real books like The Sublime Object of Ideology, The Ticklish Subject or The Parallax View seem pretty high level desu.

>>15410739
Post more Zizekisms.
>This, to me, is an obscenity
>No! My gott
>This, I claim, is PRECZSISELY what Hegel meant when
>Here I am much more of a pessimist
>Here I will be Stalinist for a moment
>I send you to gulag
>my Jewish friend
>I'm sorry if you know it
>But, nonetheless, let's go on

>>15410857
When the NPC meme was all the rage, I've tried to make a Zizek pasta about it (but ultimately failed):

>But what if NPCs are not characterized by an absence of imagination, introspection and so on, but precisely by an excess of it? The true NPC, I claim, cannot play the game because he is paralyzed by the Big Other. He cannot fulfill his desire to act upon the outside world and retreat within his internal monologues, away from ordinary society. He doesn't play because he feels castrated.
>But yet, and this is the paradox here, we need to retreat to be able to act meaningfully on the outside world, and escape predominant ideology.
>This is why I claim, we should all become NPCs.

>>15409350

the edge on this one

>>15410989
Kek that does sound like Zizek. Good job anon.

>>15410989
What does Big Other mean?

>>15411129
>In 1955, Lacan draws a distinction between the "little other" and the "big Other" ("the Other"), a distinction which remains central throughout the rest of his work.[1]Thereafter, in Lacanian algebra, the big Other is designated A (upper case, for French Autre) and the little other is deisgnated a (lower case italicized, for French autre). Lacan asserts that an awareness of this distinction is fundamental to analytic practice: the analyst must be "thoroughly imbued" with the difference between A and a,[2]so that he can situate himself in the place of Other, and not of the other.

Say it with me now: The Enlightenment period and its consequences have been a disaster for the human race.

>>15411168
>The big Other designates radical alterity, an otherness which transcends the illusory otherness of the imaginary because it cannot be assimilated through identification. Lacan equates the big Other with language and the law, and hence the big Other is inscribed in the symbolic order. Indeed, the big Other is the symbolic insofar as it is particularized for each subject. Thus, the Other is both another subject in its radical alterity and unassimilable uniqueness and also the symbolic order which mediates the relationship with that subject.

Simpler people have an extremely difficult time believing in anything they cannot perceive directly. There were old people in late victorian days who thought recording technology was impossible and refused to believe in it.

>>15411170
That's just a step into a more global way of thinking.
Enlightenment is the result of the development of Capitalism. Not the other way around.
Enlightenment didn't appeared in the 9th century. Nor did it appear during ancient Greece. It appear when the mode of production required a particular way of thinking which would favor it. And favor it, it did.
Enlightenment didn't create Capitalism. Capitalism created enlightenment. Base supersede superstructure.

>>15411129
It's the big spooky thing that scares you the most, an informal mass of ideology represented by a shitton of people -- in your mind mostly -- that you need to either submit to, rebel against, or retreat away from.
The /pol/tard Big Other is immigrants, the incel Big Other is womyn, the liberal feminist Big Other is men, the Leninist Big Other is anyone at the left (or right) of Stalin and so on.
It's like the penish of your father lol ;)

>>15409062
I don't even know what the fuck "spirituality" is.

>>15411463
It's cope for brainlets and egoists mostly, not really worth looking into.

>>15411455
>/pol/tard Big Other is immigrants,
jews actually, the immigrants are seen more as a sort of bioweapon

>>15411554
And where does Capitalism stand in all that, something secondary? Where does stand the very mode of production which defines everything else?

>>15411601
/pol/ people can't decide if Jews want to take the joys of capitalism away by forcing communism or if Jews are the capitalists standing in the way of national socialism

>>15411601
(...)
Wage labor has immigration as a consequence. Jews don't. They participate to the ideology, are Capitalism vanguard. But they aren't the primordial cause.

>>15411601
Id say the general sentiment is that capitalism is not a problem in and of itself, as in people being free to exchange goods and labor, but they obviously want some kind of king or Hitler in charge to make sure that their Volk are not being assfucked.

It goes without saying that they despise banking and international corporations, which they attribute almost entire to Jews.

>>15409062
because most people don't have a soul and they cope

>>15411554
True. Zizek talked a lot about the migrant crisis when I used to listen to his lectures, that's why I committed this mistake and might have to go to gulag, but the Jews are definitely the Big Other for /pol/ since they are all-pervasive and control everything behind the scene.
I will never forget his tirade about Hitler being the best practitioner of Pokemon Go though: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cli5WNZ083c

>>15409062
1st law of thermodynamics

For every action (opinion) there is an equal and opposite (antithetical) action (opinion)

>>15411613
They will answer to this that Jews play both sides depending on which they think will be better for the Jewish people in a given instance. The Jews might not all agree about what to do, but they all agree that helping Jews is more important than anything else.

>>15411633
>Id say the general sentiment is that capitalism is not a problem in and of itself, as in people being free to exchange goods and labor,
Free to sell your labor like a bitch because you have no means of production of your own, and you have to pay rent and food.
>they obviously want some kind of king or Hitler in charge.
So a King or Fuhere in charge of Capitalism. We keep wage labor, exploitation.
> to make sure that their Volk are not being assfucked.
It is in the essence of Capitalism to promote mass immigration. Marx, Das Kapital Vol.1 (quoted from memory): "the aim of Capitalism is to replace one Yankee with 3 chineese".
>It goes without saying that they despise banking and international corporations
Banking and international corporations don't create Capitalism, but Capitalism created banking and international corporations.
>which they attribute almost entire to Jews.
So a goyim banking and international corporation. Sure that would be better :s Instead of having jewish central bankers, we would have goyim central bankers, and everything would be paradise.

>>15411712
I'm not saying their plan is entirely realistic, but they want something that looks sort of like Nazi Germany, which is not impossible to imagine existing.

Also why would you approve of this plan? Obviously it is not what communists want, it's what /pol/ wants, they don't really care about the exploitation in capitalism so long as it's sort of on a leash from a dictator who is going to put the interests of the nation ahead of those outside it.

>>15411656
There are literally countries in the world with almost no jews at all. Take Singapor. They must be a super tiny minority. Paraguay, Guatemala, Georgia. South east asia, same. Japan, same. Yet in those countries, it's wage labor and exploitation of surplus labor like in america or europa. Those countries are far from being paradise. Same for China. Very few jew. Abysmall relative to the global population. Yet it's classic Capitalism and exploitation of the working class.

>>15411762
>they don't really care about the exploitation in capitalism
So, to be clear, they want to be exploited by white christian owners of the means of production, and only by white christians owners of the means of production.
Also, it's the nature of Capitalism to induce mass immigration (see previous post), and in late stage Capitalism, due to the tendency of the rate of profit to fall, Capitalism require this mass immigration even more. It's vital for him. So again, in Capitalism, an ethno state is not even something realistically possible.

>>15409062
Because in no way can you prove or show to be true any spiritual conceptions such as the soul. It is pure fantasy. At least materialism has the benefit of being perceptible.

>>15411782
Those aren't white countries, the /pol/ mindset is biological or tribal, they dont see abstract systems of economics and government as being as important as race. They basically think that expelling Jews and other nonwhites will make white countries nice to live in (again).

To the degree that they'd admit that capitalism can cause problems they basically say that in a country controlled by whites the problems would be dealt with sensibly. Mussolini said something rather similar to this actually though he wasnt as big on race, basically that the people, the nation itself, had to react to situations as they occurred, it was the actual stock of people that mattered, not some system.

They think it's a position others will find smart, but this isn't high school or reddit.

>>15411810
That's the point of having the Fuhrer, he doesn't let capitalists just do whatever they want. But they'd also probably say that whites are not going to exploit their own people as much as Jews do or something to that effect.

And they will inevitably start talking about Israel with its high birth rates and refusal to let in many immigrants. That point I actually agree on, Israel shows that not all developed countries have to be like France, even though Israel is not Natsoc.

>>15411832
>They basically think that expelling Jews and other nonwhites will make white countries nice to live in (again).
Okay, so now, even if it was possible (which isn't due to TRPF), so let's say it was possible. Today, the average white male wakes up at 6/30 AM, Eat processed food breakfast take the subway filled which negroes and other brown skinned people, and go work for M. Shekelstein. Go back home at 7:00 PM, tired, nuke his industrial food, watch his netflix series and go to sleep, knowing that tommorow will be the same day.
In hypothetical nazy Europa, the average white male will wake up at 6:30AM, will take the subway, clean and only populated with whites, and go work for M. Christian Smith. He go back home at 7:00PM, Nuke his processed food, and go to sleep, knowing that tommorow will be the same day. But since he only interacted with white chrisitians, it will be a good day :s
What a dream world. It change everything :s

>>15411825
lol

>>15411851
>That's the point of having the Fuhrer, he doesn't let capitalists just do whatever they want.
Capitalism always do what it want, if you play it's game. Always. Only thing to win against Capitalism, is by not playing it's game (open source software, having your own garden, not eating processed food, not eating bigpharma pills, not being a coonsumer, living to coonsume etc..., and in the end wanting to abolish the core fundamentals of Capitalism: wage labor, the State, money, exchange value. delegation of power.

>>15411881
That is pretty much what most of them want yes, although the assumption I see on /pol/ is that thing like feminism will be dialed back once whites are in control again. That seems rather dubious to me.

>>15411899
What does this prove?

>>15411904
Well Im not sure I'd call it simply capitalism, but in large strokes I agree with you that there are structural processes at work that are more important than the tribal processes. /pol/ does not agree with that though.

>>15411927
brain doesn't create consciousness

>>15411930
>I agree with you that there are structural processes at work that are more important than the tribal processes. /pol/ does not agree with that though.
I think there are both and they both are important.

>>15411944
Don't see how that conclusion follows from your image. Most of his brain is intact actually, It's just squished. Because it happened over a very long period of time it adapted, perfectly explainable just unusual. Of course, it seems you just grasp at whatever vaguely confirms your yet unproven beliefs.

>>15411954
The thing is, the best way to be an ethno land, is necessarily to be communism. You cannot be ethno State and Capitalism. It won't work. Who will clean the toilets in the new ethno State, which /Pol user? Who will have the shit wage and do the shit jobs? Of course, in their vision, everybody in the ethno State will be engineer or CEO, but who, realistially cooks and clean the garbage? That's right. Nobody, or perhaps mexican or african immigrants? that's why it won't work.
In a communism ethno State, everybody will clean the toilets.
Historically, in the 20th and 21th century, the more classles a society is, the more mono-ethnic it is (Cf. Huterrian Brethren, Israeli Kibbutzim).

>>15411989
A lot of people on /pol/ hate capitalism and see capitalism and socialism as two sides of the same shekel. The pro-capitalist people are probably boomers.

>>15411989
So why do lots of people on the left today want to bring in lots of third world immigrants?

>>15412026
>A lot of people on /pol/ hate capitalism
Fine, but then they have to go to the end and abolish wage labor and private property of the means of production. You cannot hate Capitalism, but be okay with it's core fundamentals.
>>15412041
>So why do lots of people on the left today want to bring in lots of third world immigrants?
Radical Marxist are not on the left. Nor are they on the right. They want to abolish political economy.

>>15411989
Brainlet take.

>>15410768
Apodictic truths do not rely on logic, they rely upon the brute fact of no other possibilities (e.g. you experience, therefore existence necessarily is). I suppose one could consider that the most fundamental form of logic, but in that case it is valid, sound & proven with absolute certainty.

>>15412079
>they have to go to the end and abolish wage labor and private property of the means of production.
I am pretty sure that lots of people on /pol/ would love to have those things abolished.
>Radical Marxist are not on the left. Nor are they on the right.
Well ok, but if that's the case then there basically are no Marxists at all with any power or influence in mainstream society, at least not in the USA. The average normalfag thinks that Marxism means Bernie Sanders.

>>15412141
>there basically are no Marxists at all with any power
We want to abolish all power. Unironically.
> The average normalfag thinks that Marxism means Bernie Sanders.
That is his problem. His ignorance. Did Bernie Sanders even read Das Kapital, all 3 volumes?

>>15409062
Why should I believe in spirituality?

>>15412186
>We want to abolish all power.

>>15412186
>We want to abolish all power. Unironically.
Yeah yeah ok but you know what I mean. The real Marxism that you're talking about does not exist in the minds of the vast majority of people so how do you plan to get society to that point

>>15411989
Were the Nazis capitalists? What about Medieval Europe?
I'm not trying to be a smart aleck. I'm asking you genuinely.

>>15412212
Eventually, people will come to Karl Marx. When Capitalism will collapse, due to the tendency of the rate to fall, they will have no choice but to get closer to a mode of production not based around profit.

>>15412253
Nazis were Capitalists. Wage labor, private property of the means of production, a market. The nazis were State Capitalists, that's Capitalism but with some control from the State. Some, because in the end, it's always Capitalism that dictate the choice to the State, not the other way round.
>Medieval Europe
Medieval Europe was feudalist. Exploitation of the working class through Lordship,

>>15412260
Bold of you to think we will not simply make the same mistakes but with different people at the top.

Because materialistic thinking gives you results.

>>15412290
>because in the end, it's always Capitalism that dictate the choice to the State, not the other way round.
unclear if this is true desu

Is Marxism an extension of the Enlightenment school of thought or is it separate from all that?

>>15412296

What do postmodernists believe the government, economy, etc., should be like?

>>15412324
I don't know exactly, all i know is that Marx criticize Free-masonry as being the vanguard of Capitalism.

>>15412335
Where is this shit from?

>>15409175
He also says the the Holy Spirit is the mutual concern of the members of a community for each other. Maybe stop taking him literally.

>>15410989
Good one anon.

>>15409062
Because spirituality is based entirely in metaphysics and cannot be observed or proved, all we can currently observe is the hypothetical theories of other mortal men who's mental health conditions are questionable