/lit/ - Literature

>>15516768
Coldest winter

>>15516768
the Springtime was like 900 years ago lol. I think we more or less skipped most of winter and went right into the collapse period. Blame Russia or Jews I guess

>>15516800
Some anon in the last thread suggested we already went through the winter in the first half of the 20th century and are right now in a value defining preiod, i.e. Spring.

>>15516818
Lel, we are not in the value finding period. No birth of any new religion/religious feeling. Contemporary art is still pretentious, nihilistic, and fundamentally soulless. At the very best, there might be some life left in the Black community in the US (though it’s not Faustian). Unfortunately, the pseudomorphosis has been so severe that our own rotten civilization has crept into their transplanted culture and begun to eat it alive. Though I may be wrong about that.

>>15516768

SPRING BEGINS WITH THE RETURN OF THE SON OF MAN.

>>15517158
Wow so this is just a bunch of fake "grand narrative" pseud shit, huh?

>>15516818
Winter doesn't turn into spring, the civilization just dies. Russia is supposedly in their very early period, not really into Spring yet

>>15516768
>thinking spenglarian historiography is any way shape or form cyclical
there will be no springtime for us. there cannot be. time doesn't stop for anyone. ducunt fata volemtem, nolentem trahunt.

>>15517187
russian culture died in its embryonic stage during the soviet rule. and now integration into the west has treated it far more harsh than it did japan or china.

>>15517198
that's why the seasonal metaphor, while evocative, is misleading. Spengler himself compares it to an organism's lifespan, which is much more accurate, the old man doesn't turn into a baby.

>>15517209
One could argue the West died in WWII and we're just living through the Spring of the Jewish Era.

Chesterton:

>An interesting distinction, which is almost a contradiction, has recently been drawn between Culture and Civilization. Two leading writers of the day, the one a Russian and the other a German, have accepted this difference, even if they use it rather differently. The German, being a freethinker and an agnostic, is, of course, rigidly bound by the iron rivets of the dogmas of materialism. The Russian, being a Greek Orthodox Christian and the relic of a ruined and persecuted Church, is a little more cheerful, and seems to think there is some such thing as human freedom and a chance for human liberty. But both agree, more or less, in a certain theory of the relation between Culture and Civilization; and it is roughly that Civilization is the end of Culture, even in the sense of the death of Culture.

>Restating the matter roughly here, for my own purposes, the conception is that Culture is growth; the original sprouting of man's spiritual or artistic nature, as it appears in the native folklore or primitive architecture of a whole people. Civilization is rather the limit or compromise laid upon this by the discovery that there are other peoples or other methods of production. In following Culture, a man develops his arts; that is to say, his tastes. Consequently, true Culture, like true Charity, begins at home. With Civilization there appears something that is not only purely public, but a little homeless. Culture is growing such flowering trees as you prefer in your own front garden, and planting them where you like. Civilization is having a lawsuit with the next-door neighbour about whether your trees overshadow his garden, or calling in the policeman to throw him out if he becomes violent upon the question.

>It is possible to recognise a certain rough truth in this distinction, without committing oneself to the fatalistic and rather pessimistic view which Spengler takes of his geological epochs with their human fossils. It is enough to say that we are not fossils; and that Isaiah and Pythagoras and Augustine are not fossils. Spengler tends to treat the coming of a complete Civilization as the coming of an Ice Age, freezing all human life as the ice freezes all animal life. Berdyaev, the Russian, is, as I have said, rather more free and easy, but especially more free. It is not my purpose here, however, to adjudicate on the theory or on the two theorists. I am only concerned with one particular angle or aspect of it, which affects the Civilization in which most of my countrymen actually have to live--the Civilization of London and the big industrial towns-- if you can call it a Civilization.

>>15517246
Here, for instance, is a doubt that troubles me. If there was one thing which we did suppose was done for us by Civilization, it was to make us civil. The very word politeness is really the Greek for civilization, just as the very word civilization is really the Latin for politeness. It is a pleasing thought that the word `policeman' and the word 'politeness' not only have the same meaning, but are almost the same word. But the Romans inheriting from the Greeks had no sooner established the idea of what is civic, or belonging to a citizen, than there became somewhat vaguely attached to it the idea of civility. Up to a point, Civilization, or even public life, probably does act in this way. Men begin to feel a new and strange restraint, making them feel a little shy and bashful about knocking off the hats or pulling the noses of total strangers to whom they have not been introduced. A new delicacy, a new sense of what is tactful and fitting, leads them to beat, bash and kick only their nearest and dearest and their most intimate friends. But there is another side to the story, and it is becoming rather a tragic story, in the light of that thesis about Civilization as the fossilization and final end of the truly creative life of a culture. I think we have reason for grave criticism and apprehension when there is a tendency for civic and public life to become more coarse and brutal than private and educational life. It is a dark and sinister omen when men begin to be ruder to strangers than they are to friends.

After all, the home, insofar as any ruins of it are left standing, is still the school of good manners. Many make very great efforts, and most make some sort of effort, to train their children at least in some standard of social behaviour. Little trivial gestures of impatience in which you or I may have indulged--the soup-tureen hurled across the table, the carving-knife brandished with motions mistaken by the superficial for those prefatory to murder--do not alter the fact that, even in the same household, babies are still instructed with some care about spreading the jam or spilling the milk. The old traditions of behaviour, so far as they still exist, are still largely traditions of a household; they concern opening the door to a lady or passing the mustard to a guest. Almost all that remains of the forms of courtesy are the forms of hospitality. Whether you call it behaving like a gentleman or behaving like a snob, it is still inside a human house that the man generally tries to live up to his highest standards, and to perform what are, in fact, the ancient rites and ceremonies of his Culture.

>>15517232
the jewish springtime was 2 thousand years ago

>>15517246
>>15517272
a typically english misunderstanding of spengler. there's always a pretence with englishmen that they're the only adults in the room. this arrogance was their ruin. spengler didn't care about the words themselves, they could've been switched around and it would not have mattered one bit. i can't stand pedants that think "what we say matters" is at all an important thought. spengler also doesn't reduce humanity to culture and civilisation, if you read his man and technics.

>>15516818
>>15517158
We're literally 1/10th of the way into winter, retards. The feeling you have of being at the beginning of a value-defining period is just second religiousness.

>>15516768
>>15516784
>>15516800
>>15516818
>>15517158
>>15517163
>>15517187
>>15517198
>>15517209
>>15517290
>>15517297
This shit is no different from Harry Potter/LoTR LARPing, you absolute fucking cretins

>>15517443
It was taken seriously by a lot of people in the 20th century so no it is not like Harry Potter or The Lord of the Rings

>>15517443
success breeds jealousy eh

>>15517443

>>15516768
It's winter. Soulless materialism is at its highest.

>>15516768
>>15516800

It's fall. We have yet to achieve Western Caesarism/Civilization, Spengler predicted it would arrive between 2100 and 2200. Things are only going to get worse.

>>15517232
Bruh he devotes a whole chapter to this in the book. >>15517290 is correct, the Jewish culture was old when Western Culture was young.

>>15517290
Agreed, that's a remarkably stupid response from Chesterton. You'd think he'd have noticed given how arbitrarily Spengler labeled things (e.g. naming the Faustian Soul after his favorite Goethe book.)

>>15517813
Faustian as a label isn't arbitrary in the least

>>15517443
Neither is whatever it is you do