/lit/ - Literature

>>15583569
>who is this intellectual elite that currently runs the democratic society
the Fr *nch
>do you believe they are still doing so ethically?
no

>for democracy to function it needs an unelected aristocratic elite
>We dont want this to be used by "the wrong people", as in, people who rightfully realize that democracy itself is rotten
Let go of democracy, anon

>>15583588
Care to elaborate on that or are you memeing?

>>15583591
No I agree with you, I think the fact for democracy to function it requires people to be convinced it works by an elite group shows its not a great system, but I also believe a lot of human systems require the same methods. What would you say is a better alternative to democracy?

>>15583597
The Fr*nch philosophers all agree that they should “relegate truth to the lowly standard it deserves”. The smarmy fucks admit it directly in their writings, that they are intentionally obscuring what is objective reality for their own degenerate reality. What’s difficult to tell is whether or not they realize their stupidity, or not.

>>15583569
>for democracy to work, it has to be undemocratic
Whoah, deep

>>15583615
Fair. I agree with your dislike of the French schools of thought, I always assumed it was just because I'm anglo.

>>15583605
If you want, read Jason Brennan's "Against Democracy", in which he outlines some empirical, instrumental, and ethical reasons for why Democracy isnt all that great. His alternative is an epistocracy, in which the amount of voting power one has is proportional to the amount of knowledge one has (like vetting votes based on general knowledge on important topics).
Despite his good criticisms of democracy, I personally dont find his arguments for epistocracy all that convincing, so i'll stick with being pro-totalitarian fascism.

>>15583639
> pro-totalitarian fascism
Wouldn't this also run the same as current democracy where the party leaders just run propaganda campaigns to create an enemy for the people but also restrict a citizens individual freedoms as well?

>>15583624
All schools of thought behave in a similar manner. The French are the ones brazenly outward in their admittance. If any school had the balls to open Pandora’s box, then these discussions would be so far irrelevant that our discussing them would be the equivalent of Traditional heresy.

>>15583656
The benefit of totalitarianism lies more in the fact that the masses are, at best, misinformed, and at worst just flat-out wrong.
The best thing about democracy is that it creates a relatively stable form of government, because everything gets bogged down in endless compromises and bureaucratic red tape. This stability can easily become a detriment when radical action has to be undertaken and the system of checks and balances will instead become a system of bonds and chains that prevent government from doing what it ought to do.
We saw a hint of this in the authoritarianism needed to stop the coronavirus, and we'll see more and more of it as crises start to accumulate.

>>15583703
We should honestly just go back to aristocracies. The Ancients and the Medievals had it right all along. Aristocracy and monarchy aren't perfect, but NO system is perfect. What hereditary nobility is, though, is stable. it doesn't have the upheaval of mass democracy and so it allows for the general thriving of a society over a long period of time.

My own personal favorite system of government is an aristocratic republic, like the Roman Republic or Venice in its heyday. I think it manages to balance the strengths of a democracy with the strengths of a monarchy and it manages to avoid most of the weaknesses of both. It's the mean between the two extremes: not rule by one (monarchy) or rule by all (democracy), but rule by some.

>>15583703
>The best thing about democracy is that it creates a relatively stable form of government

>>15583569
>(((intellectual elite)))

>>15583738
Compared to most dictatorships, yeah.

instagram influencers

>>15583733
Even god plans to make Earth a Kingdom, its the best way to run shit.

>>15583752
This
We need a thotocracy

>>15583733
>Hereditary Nobility

>>15583733
You know, Solon solved the problem of instability in Aristocracies as well by making it based on ownership of capital rather than heredity. This way anyone disenfranchised will simply be pushed to better their lot in life, rather than want to see the whole system torn apart.

>>15583798
yeah?

>>15583968

>>15583798
>>15584039
>4 months of mewing

>>15583639
who establishes the guidelines for how much knowledge one has?

>>15583809
this only works if you're guaranteed a basic capital by citizenship, as athenians were. otherwise you get the current liberal democratic system where 100 financiers choose the two option you get to choose from

Is there a chart for the topic of "forming consent" by authors as wide range as Bernay, Sorel, David Ogilvy, Jacques Ellul?
it is such an interesting topic that seems compared to its real world impact to actually get overlooked by most.

>>15583605
Democracy is ficticious, so why have the song and dance of elections?

>>15584832
The entire reason to be a reactionary in 2020 is that history teaches us the futility of revolutions. It was easy to be a radical in 1789 or 1917, because it seemed like a radical new world, an earthly paradise, really WAS possible. But now? We know better. We know it's all bullshit. All the dreams of guys like Rousseau, guys like Robespierre, guys like Marx, Lenin, all these dumb boomers. It's all fucking pointless. It all just ends in mass death and the old aristocracy being replaced by a new, slightly different aristocracy that is functionally identical to the people they had killed.

What the fuck is the point of being left-wing in 2020? Who in their right mind would ever support democracy, communism, these radical ideologies that promise a better world? It's all fucking dogshit. History teaches us that the iron boot of hierarchy and authority inevitably reasserts itself every single time, and all the utopian dreams always end with the original dreamers getting executed by the state they helped create, and a small number of people hold the vast majority of wealth and power, just as it was before the revolution.

There is no logical political position in 2020 except for Reaction. Everything else is moronic and is ignorant of history.

>>15583569
>So I'm reading through Edward Bernay's book "Crystallizing public opinion
Do you have deeper analysis than paraphrasing wikipedia?

>>15585424
>slightly different aristocracy that is functionally identical to the people they had killed.
If you think that traditional aristocracy was "functionally identical" to Soviet nomenklatura and post-Soviet oligarchs; you have US-tier knowledge of history.

>>15585460
The point is: for the average Russian, what actually changed? Or, more to the point: what got better? Did anything get better under the Soviets? Or did things just get worse?

>>15585431
I'm not analyzing it I'm asking for opinions.

>>15585549
The whole country industrialized very fast under the Soviet. In some areas standards of living increased, though this was shaky. The most impressive benefit imo is the education, the general level of education attained in the Soviet Union was pretty astonishing for something of that scale.

>>15584819
He goes deeper into that in the book, but it's the weakest part of the book imho.

James Burnham wrote about this in his book The Managerial Revolution. Samuel Francis extended his analysis of the managerial class, particularly in his posthumous Leviathan and its Enemies.

>ethically
It isn't a matter of ethics. They are technocrats who believe that the only alternative to anarchy is domination by an elite of technocrats. They are mostly financiers and other capitalists if they aren't in politics directly, and they often put their relatives in convenient positions like academia and the culture industry (which requires finance to function).

>You see everyone these days has their own opinion of who these people are and what their motive is from the Jews to the communists
Jews are hugely overrepresented for various reasons in the managerial class but a Jewish conspiracy is not necessary for it to function. Sam Francis is the best single source for all this.

>>15583591
Schmitt would be disgusted by these petty managerial oligarchs. Schmitt became the leading legal theorist of the Nazis for a reason. They tried to wage an all-out total global war against these people and the global bugman civilization they wanted to create.

>>15587719
extremely based