/lit/ - Literature

>>15885076
The first part of that statement is essentially true. How many rich devote Christians are there? Capitalism raising material conditions has shattered Christianity, something Marx himself noted.

>>15885087
>biggest event of the 21st century was a terrorist attack on WTC in reaction to bugman western materialism
>dude religion is completely dying out because of capitalism lmao

>>15885099
Capitalism is almost non-existent in most Muslim countries. No one can argue that religion has not been in steep decline in the West, which is capitalism's birthplace.

>>15885110
So what will be the moral basis of a communist society? Or are we supposed to believe that by accelerating the growth of productive forces there'll be no need for moral values?

>>15885076
>No need for religion if one's needs are satisfied
He's perfectly correct, reminder that for the longest time Christianity primarily served as a cope for those getting the short end of the stick in the feudal system

>>15885122
>duhhh how can there be moral without religion

>>15885122
Communism doesn't have a moral basis, Marx never uses moral arguments. He's not concerned with such things.

>>15885122
>>15885135
>"Morality must exist objectively"
Lol, fuck off faggots

>>15885140
Maybe that's his greatest mistake

>>15885076
It has been observed that as living standards rise, religiosity decreases. The world's most religious countries are all poor shitholes.
So, what's the problem, exactly?

>>15885122
Morality is just practical reason writ large. And practical reason is about promoting long-term well-being.

>>15885145
That's like saying Einstein's greatest mistake was not condemning the sin of gravity.

>>15885076
Read this instead.

>>15885207
>How capitalism became the religion of modernity
But capitalism created modernity

>>15885149
are you suggesting that USA is closer to communism than shitholes?

>>15885231
Not him, but that was essentially Marx's view as well. He held that the proletarian revolution would only occur in highly developed capitalist nations like Germany.

>>15885252
okay, lets pretend we live in year zero since my previous I lived. no electricity, no combustion engines, no drug stores with meds. what is religion, its purpose? to answer questions about problems, to entertain people in absence of anime, kinda proto psychiatry.

surely when you have anime, facebook and pornhub, and lotta meds you don't need religion.

>>15885099
>>biggest event of the 21st century was a terrorist attack on WTC
Are you retarded?

>>15885087
>>15885110
>>15885131
>>15885149
Does this apply to the Gulf, where some of the wealthiest people on the face of the Earth live?
No, it does not. The erosion of religiosity is a function of cultural and intellectual developments, not material ones.

>>15885356
Yes. However keep in mind that the Persian Gulf only became wealthy quite recently.

>>15885356
Wealthy =/= highly developed and capitalist. The Gulf is still essentially feudal, with no real industrial working class.

>>15885294
Are you proposing that HH, FB, PH, and big pharma altogether cost less and cause less harm to the human race than religion while doing equal or more good?

No sir.

That's like curing cancer with AIDS.

I propose that even accounting for religious wars, religion as a whole is less of a harm and a waste than the four horsememes of zoompokalyps.

>>15885369
>Yes.
No, it does not.
>However keep in mind that the Persian Gulf only became wealthy quite recently.
Define "quite recently."

>>15885377
>with no real industrial working class.
Someone must be running the wells. They have plenty of migrant workers, don´t they?

>>15885377
>The Gulf is still essentially feudal, with no real industrial working class.
I'm sorry, but you're just grasping at straws here.

>>15885309
>is uu sa retarded??

Not retarded.

American. Content to be a non-world citizen so long as his backyard has a propane barbie going for BigSports Day.

>>15885382
>No, it does not.
You wish, but what you are saying is simply incorrect. Also you keep missing out the fact that wealth in those countries is distributed quite unevenly, so " some of the wealthiest people on the face of the Earth" does not really matter that much.
>Define "quite recently."
Decades.

>>15885404
>You wish, but what you are saying is simply incorrect.
You are literally, factually, completely wrong. Those places are very religious, and nothing is going to change that.
>Also you keep missing out the fact that wealth in those countries is distributed quite unevenly, so " some of the wealthiest people on the face of the Earth" does not really matter that much.
How evenly was wealth distributed in the 1920s? How evenly is wealthy distributed in America today? More important, the people who hold the wealth in the Gulf are the natives, and they are the religious people I'm talking about.

>>15885388
>>15885385
Migrant workers there are essentially serfs/slaves, not the same thing as an industrial working class.

>>15885418
>Those places are very religious
Yes, compared to the rest of the world. However that´s not the point. Point is the trend and the level of religiosity has been decreasing since their economy developed.

>More important, the people who hold the wealth in the Gulf are the natives, and they are the religious people I'm talking about.
Lmao, you don´t really know much about the topic, do you? The point is not about effect of wealth on individuals holding it, but on economic development transforming characteristics of society. In 1910s Russia the wealthiest were obviously the most conservative, but there were some wealthy capitalists who were more in favour of European liberalism rather than orthodox autocracy. Just as amongst the poor the bednaks on the countryside were more conservative than the industrial workers labouring in cities.

>How evenly was wealth distributed in the 1920s?
Where? In Germany? More evenly, but lot of that wealth was invested towards wide variety of industrial production, it wasn´t single-resource economy.

>>15885076
>I get it that his work in economics and philosophy is very profound
It really isn't.
It was dumb at the time, dumb on paper, dumber in practice, and history has already proven him wrong about pretty much everything.
That's why the only kind of "people" who take him seriously these days are the kind of psychotic trannies you see at these Portland riots.

>>15885462
I wouldn't say that, but I'm not talking about them.
>>15885470
>Yes, compared to the rest of the world.
Do you understand Arabic? Have you ever spoken to an average, normal person from Saudi Arabia? Have you ever spoken to any of the many people in the region who are deeply concerned about the numerous Wahhabi masjids that the government funds in their countries? The Gulf is not becoming any less religious, unless you think that the very small number of people who go to American and French schools there are representative of the population as a whole.
>Lmao, you don´t really know much about the topic, do you? The point is not about effect of wealth on individuals holding it, but on economic development transforming characteristics of society. In 1910s Russia the wealthiest were obviously the most conservative, but there were some wealthy capitalists who were more in favour of European liberalism rather than orthodox autocracy. Just as amongst the poor the bednaks on the countryside were more conservative than the industrial workers labouring in cities.
None of that has anything to do with religiosity.

>>15885479
Absolutely seething.

>>15885498
k

>>15885506
You're far too online. Actually try reading some Marx, he doesn't write what Reddit memes have taught you to believe.

>>15885518
Yeah, it's even more retarded.
Try reading actual economists and people who have actual knowledge of industry instead of this freeloading retard.

>>15885484
>he Gulf is not becoming any less religious
Don´t confuse international support for terrorism (which is decided solely by house of Saud) with what actually is happening with their societies. Women are allowed to drive, polygamy is declining, women in Kuwait are employed on the same scale as men, women are allowed to have education etc.

>None of that has anything to do with religiosity.
Apart from the fact that a violently anti-clerical ideology somehow spawned in the minds of those industrial workers and imposed itself on the rest of society.

>>15885526
It's clear from what you've written that you're not familiar with what you're raging against. At all.

But that's fine; keep pretending that the autistic screeching is coming to you from the hereafter.

Marx is a failed Hegelian

>>15885526
There's many modern Marxist economists you retard.

>>15885479
>Portland
Isn´t that in muttistan? Marx is relevant in China, Russia, Nepal, India, Vietnam, Laos, Cuba... but not in Muttistan.

>>15885557
says the tranny unironically telling people to read karl the cuck
do you also go to /his/ and recommend scientology books to learn about history?
how's CHAZ going by the way?

Didn't Carl Jung essentially say the same thing? "The reason most people don't believe in god is because they don't look low enough."

>>15885567
He's only relevant in China, North Korea, and Cuba, which are all dystopian hellholes.
Coincidence?
Oh yeah, also among mentally ill college aged trannies in the western world.

>>15885582
>China
>dystopian hellhole
Are you a mutt? Disgusting...

>>15885578
>>15885582
>>15885479
You like trannies, don't you?

>>15885580
Jung also believed in god

>Are you a mutt? Disgusting...

>>15885076
I thought communism has no need for religion because communism is the religion. The greater self is society rather than a divine god.

>>15885580
Almost, but Jung sees the lack of God as a fault, not a positive. Also he doesn't attach spirituality to class, it's just that it's easier to find god in the small, destitute parts of life.

>>15885614
It's a totalitarian ideology, so they try to replace everything from religion to science to entertainment to history with whatever they call their "people worker's party of working people workers".
Which is a piss poor replacement for anything.

>>15885632
>totalitarian ideology
>implying there's such a thing as a non-totalitarian ideology
Oh no no no

>>15885076
That's fucking wrong OP. Stop spreading misinformation.

Here's what Marx actually said:

>Religious suffering is, at one and the same time, the expression of real suffering and a protest against real suffering. Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, and the soul of soulless conditions. It is the opium of the people.

>The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is the demand for their real happiness. To call on them to give up their illusions about their condition is to call on them to give up a condition that requires illusions. The criticism of religion is, therefore, in embryo, the criticism of that vale of tears of which religion is the halo.

>Criticism has plucked the imaginary flowers on the chain not in order that man shall continue to bear that chain without fantasy or consolation, but so that he shall throw off the chain and pluck the living flower. The criticism of religion disillusions man, so that he will think, act, and fashion his reality like a man who has discarded his illusions and regained his senses, so that he will move around himself as his own true Sun. Religion is only the illusory Sun which revolves around man as long as he does not revolve around himself.[2]

>>15885662
>Here's what Marx actually said:
Nobody gives a shit.

>>15885662
Also:

>"Marx did not object to a spiritual life. Rather, he thought it was necessary. In the "Wages of Labour" (1844), Marx wrote: "To develop in greater spiritual freedom, a people must break their bondage to their bodily needs—they must cease to be the slaves of the body. They must, above all, have time at their disposal for spiritual creative activity and spiritual enjoyment."

>>15885673
Then stop making these threads you fucking loser.

>>15885644
When off-guard commies & socialists can be reveal themselves to be very extreme. I remember one guy telling me that they are superior kind of people in society that should guide others. The only difference with hitler it's that he was talking about differences of intellect not the colour of your skin.

>>15885706
>they are superior kind of people in society that should guide others
Fun fact about politics, all of it is excuses for that.

>>15885706
>hitler
>colour of your skin

>>15885122
There will be no moral basis of communist society but instead of it there will be a communist social basis of morality. In other words (Engels), morality is "by no means the basis, but on the contrary the product, of the society in which it features".

>>15885110
Capitalism is very much existent in Muslim countries, but the effect of the material basis on ideology is delayed. And on top of that religion has been widely reappropriated by Middle Eastern bourgeoisie as an instrument used to rally the lower classes around national goals.

>>15885140
The question was not about the moral basis of the doctrine of the communist movement but about the moral basis of the future communist society.

>>15885462
What? So they're not working class because they're outwardly treated like garbage, just like the English working class from the time of Marx? Because he even wrote in Capital about instances of workers who were qualified to build industrial machinery not being allowed to emigrate from England. But this in no way altered the fact that they were wage labourers. One can only think that it would if he doesn't understand the essence of wage labour, slavery, and serfdom, presumably because he hasn't read their Marx properly.

>>15885564
This is an oxymoron. Marxists are communists, not economists.

>>15885582
Empty references to someone's name don't constitute actual relevance.

>>15885675
Those aren't Marx's words but a quote that Marx wrote down in his notebook.

>>15885706
>I remember one guy
Wow, you remember one guy! Nice source of knowledge you dumb fucking faggot.

>>15885706
You're very dumb, and should probably be led.

>>15885252
Marx in his drafted letters to Vera Zasulich in 1881 clarifies that development through capitalism was merely the way in which Western Europe (and by extension, the US) would achieve socialism, by necessity. he was aware that the faultlines of class struggle were moving toward Russia (and China, given his earlier response to the Taiping rebellion) and wanted to challenge the kind of socialists who would always maintain "We need more capitalism first" - the kind of people he meant when he said "i am not a Marxist". The second international, later on the mensheviks, technological determinists, their name is Legion.

>>15885801
>>15885845
Yeah, sorry let me post his photo. Too dumb to be led.

>>15885706
Read Hitler.

>>15885915
You read Hitler fucking fascist!

>>15885099
you really think that shit was about RELIGION?
watch bitter lake, you smooth brain

>>15885909
Got a better angle here.

>>15885893
Funny how the transition from capitalism to socialism always ends in nightmarishly horrible failure, until it reverts back to capitalism.
Capitalism and socialism aren't stages; socialism is what happens when you fuck up everything capitalism built.

Capitalism isn't the reason religion is on decline, prosperity is. Under communism everyone would be more prosperous so religion would not be needed. Communism would just finish what capitalism has started.

>>15885935
>you really think that shit was about RELIGION?
This anon gets it.

>>15885944
>everything capitalism built
Read: stole or disastrously extracted.

>>15885941
Do you think I'm fascist because I post a photo of Mussolini? Eveybody knows that he was a socialist during his youth. Fascism was socialism without class war & with racial antagonisms.

>>15885958
Read: Built
You want to talk about stealing other people's shit and fucking it all up, look at CHAZ.
Perfect example of socialism in action.

>>15885962
>Do you think I'm fascist
I don't really care what you think going by how little of it you seem to do.

>>15885953
>Under communism everyone would be more prosperous

>>15885801
>just like the English working class from the time of Marx?
Not at all, these are literal slaves trafficked in, generally forced to work. That is not the same thing as a working class under wage labor.

>>15885967
Kek. "CHAZ" is the new VeNeZueLa

>>15885977
omg.. this meme is so funny! What sub did you find it on?

>>15885976
Nah bitch, I'm not even white. I'm the multicultural experience. I know more of that than you as a person of colour who lived in Europe and was shocked with how people were making fun of jews at high school and my liberal teachers had to tolerate that shit.

>>15885967
meanwhile in the capitalist world: efficient government, sane people, functional administration and care.

>>15885087
Many. Religiosity is weakest among the poor, the laborers, and the peasants. There's a reason the church basically had to bribe and force the peasantry to adopt marriage as a mass institution instead of just letting bastardry run amok. Religiosity is highest among the educated, the learned, the well off, and the striving. Joel Osteen is a true believer, he just believes in things other than what he says he does. As do Donald Trump, George Soros, Bill Clinton, and any other rich gazillionaire.

Capitalism didn't shatter Christian religiosity, the church being ousted from state power weakened Catholic political power. That's two very different things.

>>15886009
You're really going to use communists incompetently causing a global pandemic and trying to cover it up as a failure of "capitalism"?

>>15885383
dude, you don't understand. people do harm to people, humanity kills humanity, fuck off bro, die, free your place for my children. governments only organize and control the process. if you cannot prevent revolution - lead it. and killing people by people is not a bad thing. stop being house pet animal who thinks world must be like on TV. war has never ceased. people are just "pacified". and there are no "they", children of natalists kill children of natalists, poison with meds and send to hospitals and prisons.

>>15885977
Hahahha under communism no food. So original.

>>15886021
>original
No, that happens every time.

>>15886019
you meant deliberately of course. thank you china, you revealed another horizon of populations stupidity.

>>15885977
On average yes. Upper class is a minority

>>15886032
Im dont think this is what communism is

>>15886051
lol

>>15886053
Communism seems to be failing at such increasingly faster rates the next one will fail before you can say "That wasn't real commu"

>>15886069
How is it failing?

>>15886084
Well, for one, there is no more CHAZ...

>>15886021
Utopia

The middle east pretty much dismantled Marx's thesis on material conditions displacing the religious fabric of society.

>>15886206
But middle east is becoming less religious, when allowed to develop peacefully. I mean look at the huge amount of trannies in Iran.

>>15885944
It has never gone past capitalism. The horrors you're referring to are horrors of capitalism.

>>15885962
So it was socialism without socialism but with capitalism? Seems about right.

>>15885986
You can be practically forced to do wage labour too, so pretending that throwing in such a vague term will settle the matter doesn't help.

But this isn't that important anyway. Whether formally free or not (and admittedly the distinction between the two can become blurred), all of those people are exploited by the same capital, and an immediate interest in associating in order to resist this capital is common to both groups. So conceptually separating them into two classes doesn't make nearly as much sense as it might've made when there were diverse classes of exploiters, each with their own set of subjects, such as the nobility with their serfs and the bourgeoisie with their wage workers.

>>15886206
No, it confirms it. Religion only remains strong there because of its ideological reinforcement by the state. But this can only last for so long, namely until the lower classes begin to see the religious state not as their savior but as just another disguise of its enemy, which is already happening in Iran, an will be happening elsewhere as shit starts to go down https://www.economist.com/middle-east-and-africa/2020/07/18/the-end-of-the-arab-worlds-oil-age-is-nigh..

It might even take a few cycles of alternating secular and religious governments for ME to become as secularized as the West, but the general trend is definitely towards secularization, even if people there don't become fedora-tipping atheists instantly but instead remain "softcore"/culturally muslim, and even if there's increased activity of politically-motivated extremists which distorts the overall picture.

>>15886352
the lower class of the MENA region are actually the most religious, the royalty/higher ups are actually the ones keeping hardcore Islam at bay.

>>15886314
globalhomo is absolutely a cult

>>15886352
>It has never gone past capitalism. The horrors you're referring to are horrors of capitalism.
All this cope. This is why I wrote off neo-Marxists are cultists a long time ago. Just parroting a 20th century failed ideology and preaching it like the Scripture attacking non-believers for wrongthink and reporting them to the government/employers if they do something wrong just like reporting on heretics. I see no difference.

>>15885076
Quick shit thread, quick answer. Marx doesn't mean religion, as spirituality. He meant institutionalized spirituality as going to the church every sunday, being a good "lamb of God", instead of wanting to get out of Capitalism alienation.

>>15886352
>to become as secularized as the West
>he actually believes this
all we did was swap one god out for another. the death of god birthed a materialist dogma that is just as violent and just as parasitic.

>>15886568
and replace it with totalism? and how has communism not produced its own form of alienation? paranoia, elements of constant surveilliance - this already happens in neomarxist circles. They report people for wrongthink constantly and use surveilliance to harass private individuals in order to garner large amount of negative social credit score. its evident tha ta neo marxist state would be filled with camerasit sounds worse than hell.

>>15886314
trannies in iran are still thought of as degenerates by the majority of the population, they live relatively better only because of an odd fatwa by khomeini which decreed that they could live peacefully until they could afford reassignment surgery.

ME is unironically becoming more radical and ISIS tier than ever before.

>>15886051
well even vietnam had to cancel their agricultural socialism because it was preventing farmers from doing anything. marxist economics in practice is quite simple:
>force collectivization, execute original landowners
>demand production of product
>buy product from collectivizied group at under the market value
>sell the product at low cost if its a general commodity and an insanely high cost if its a consumer good
>get mad when farmers start undercutting you by choosing to sell their goods freely
>this also creates the usual spree of corruption as is typically found via black market etc
Marxism as we have seen in every case just creates neo-capitalism. communism didn't work it was a very bad system

Ideology replaced Religion.

>i'm not religious
>but i am an ________-ist and my life revolves entirely around this

Communism could not possibly develop relig-

>Under the leadership of the Workers’ Party of Korea, the Democratic People’s Republic of Korea and the Korean people will uphold the great Comrades Kim Il Sung and Kim Jong Il as the "eternal" leaders of Juche Korea.

>>15885076
Well keep in mind that at the time people effectively lived under a statist tyranny that mandated that you had to be a Christian, or else.

Marx isnt really all that profound in any area, but what can be said is that he got shit done. He was a charlatan and more of a prophet than a scientist, but he did change the rules of the game. Unfortunately the tricks he wielded to have that kind of impact led to some unintended consequences, e.g. a fuckload of people dying. Too bad!

>>15886016
I think this anon gets it. Maybe christianity is out but hell, one can see well off rich people investing all their efforts to push their social views with religious fervor, millionaires sinking millions into the causes, whole companies making desicions that will not help them make money and might even hurt them with the goal of letting everyone know they are believers of the cause.

>>15886587
>ME is unironically becoming more radical and ISIS tier than ever before.
No? Perhaps there is more people hell-bent on destroying amerifats and Jews, but those people are more likely to put themselves under Iranian or Russian leadership.

>>15886624
rap

>>15885076
Religion didn't decline, it just changed forms. People believe in Anglo Egalitarianism more intensely than they believed in Christ in recent memory, for example.

>>15885377
>The Gulf is still essentially feudal
Marxists are some of the dumbest people alive

>>15886684
>No?
Yes?

>but those people are more likely to put themselves under Iranian or Russian leadership.
this is just speculation

>>15886759

>>15885099
>biggest event of the 21st century was a terrorist attack on WTC
lmao

>>15886533
They try to keep its over-the-top kind that's too unpredictable and potentially too destructive to their aims at bay, while they promote the "medium intensity" kind among lower classes, which are susceptible to it for the very reasons described by Marx >>15885662.

>>15886564
I don't have anything to do with "neo-Marxism". And you don't have an argument. I also don't know what this minirant about reporting someone to the employees is supposed to be about, but it probably means you should take your meds.

>>15886568
He also meant by religion viewing the alienated social powers as powers of imaginary supernatural entities.

>>15886574
Sure, bourgeois ideology is unbelievably potent, but it is not an actual religion. If you really want you can call parts of it "secular religion", but that's still "secular" as in "secular-ized".

>>15886586
>and replace it with totalism?
Replace it with humanity's consciousness of its own power as a species and by mindful application of that power. Rather than interpreting socially produced events as effects of supernatural intervention.
>paranoia, elements of constant surveilliance - this already happens in neomarxist circles.
"Neo-marxist" circles are not communist, if they even exist outside of your schizo head.

>>15886587
Any such radicalization is not an effect of religion itself but an effect of bourgeois effort typical of periods of elevated imperialist competition. You could observe the same thing a 100 years ago. It will only get worse as the working class starts to find its own strength. It's at those times that such means to turn the proletariat away from international unity of class interests and towards serving the interests of the national bourgeoisie are exercised the most.

>>15886603
Forming cooperative enterprises is not the socialist way. The thing you describe as marxism is capitalism, so it's no wonder that it ends up being... (neo-?)capitalism.

>>15885131
Isn't this Eddie izzard?

>>15886586
Neo marxist seems to be the new psy op. Been on this board for almost 2 years, the term Neo Marxist only appeared a few days ago. Before it was about cultural marxism, which is even clearer as a term, and less ambiguous and newspeak like as (((neo marxism))).

>>15886861
name a more catalyzing political event in the last 20 years than 9/11

>>15888429
Peterson was using term Neomarxism for years and he has been posted here since when? 2016?

>>15886056
Go back to Facebook faggot

>>15885087
>How many rich devote Christians are there?
Ever heard of Rockefeller you pseud?

>>15888447
2016 election

>>15888429
>>15889338
I don't know why you're opposed to the term.
Fat upper class dangerhair landwhale trannies who think blogging about manspreading is "combating inequality" clearly has fuck all to do with any sort of class struggle that stupid faggot Marx talked about, even if that's where most of their ideas are derived from.

>>15886016
Only that this is factually untrue. Have you ever been to any Latin American country? Go to the slums and poor neighborhoods, virtually everyone is a staunch catholic; the middle classes are also very catholic, but there you will already find a lot of agnostics and atheists. The upper class mostly doesn’t believe in anything but money, if they display being religious it’s only for appearance.
You named Trump. You know that this guy is basically an atheist? He hasn’t any morals, the only thing he knows is a duality of winning or losing, dominate or being dominated.

>>15885706
Why are you on this board if you clearly dont read?

>>15889827
People who aren't leftists actually read books, instead of screeching at everyone online to read marx (which they haven't read either).

>>15889939
>which they haven't read either
Why are you screeching at someone you havent even read? Also im not a Marxist nigger, but I can criticize Marx without making a charicature out of him.

>>15890028
I read karl the cuck a long time ago, and it was the biggest waste of time ever. There's no reason to make counterpoints, because there's no reason to take him seriously to begin with. If you wanted to waste your time with that, you could just as easily look up any of the thousands of refutations already written.
It's about as productive as debating investment strategies with the homeless bum who lives under the bridge.

>>15885076

He was busy creating his own religion, so one of his major blind spots was not recognizing that humans are hard-wired for storytelling. The sentiment is correct inasmuch as it refers to poor people using religion as slave morality cope, however.

I guess it's better to ask here than to make a new thread for it. Where did Marx and Nietzsche differ on politics? Do they ever make reference to one another?

>>15885076
It's true though. Graph go up means religion graph go downer.

>>15885231
>tries to critique Marx
>literally not familiar with even the most basic premise of historical materialism and scientific socialism
I really shouldn't have expected more, this is /lit/ after all.

>>15885356
>what is wealth inequality

>>15885076
*achieve all your wettest dreams while being Christian, "conservative" and laughing in Plattdeutsch for 400 years*

>>15885131
But that's wrong.
The nobles were more religious than the serfs.

>>15890344
Which nobles are you talking about?

>>15890366
Those in France in the middle ages, for example.
Nobles and kings and so on. Piety was highly valued for them, much more than for the poorer/uneducated masses, who could get away with being more sinful, because they didn't know any better anyway.

>>15885087
I don't know if you meant to say "devoted" or "devout", but you're a phoneposting retard regardless.

>>15890366
loowee the poowee / lias the pias is a big one

>>15885087
me

>>15890366
>>15890399
The whole story of Joan of Arc should give you a clue. The rulers actually believed in this stuff.
Life was still full of suffering then, even for rich people (lots of dead people in battles and so on, dead infants...). Christianity was real for them, they took it seriously.

>>15889546
No. It's not where most of their ideas are derived from.

>>15890465
Yes, it is. It directly stems from critical theory, which is a direct successor to Marxism.
Your "class struggle" has become a designated dilation station.

>>15885662
In what way does this contradict the OP?

>>15885149
>It has been observed that as living standards rise, religiosity decreases.

Only if you cherry pick human history.

For a long time Cathedrals represented the height of wealth.

Before that the Roman Temples were some of the most impressive buildings around.

Before that the temple to Zeus.

Before that....

>>15886314
The trannies come from an eastern conception of gender. If you like to get penetrated then you might as well be a female.

>>15885076
Marxism is literally just neo-christianity

>>15890306
are you familiar with reality? with yourself? lol.

i think he was onto something. it's mostly people living paycheck to paycheck who are into religion. all the rich people are only in it for the networking and advertising