/lit/ - Literature

self bumping. anyone?

Voss is actually next on my reading list (after I finally finish bloody Power Without Glory) but I have read White's Tree of Man. I actually really loved it because it's basically an exercise in describing inner lives masquerading as a "Great Australian Novel" (you know with the usual family drama, weather disasters etc.)

A.D. Hope once described White's prose as "verbal sludge" (I think this was before Voss had come out) although if that's the case with the rest of his work - I have no qualms about wading through more of it.

And if All Capsguy's like most of my fellow Australians - he's probably read fuck all.

I'm assuming you're not as Ausfag so I'd like to note that in my experience, when it comes to Australian literature, most Australians tend to only really get assigned stuff in school like Tim Winton's Cloudstreet or Looking for Alibrandi or one of those forgettable "school of resentment" novels about Aboriginals or migrants (instead of good shit like Herbert's Capricornia or Wright's Carpentaria). I know I mostly only got the "school of resentment"/young adult lit shit in my secondary education (well....except for Andrew McGahan's White Earth which somehow strung the land ownership/Mabo issue into a brilliantly written gothic novel), so I'm playing catch-up (helped by the /lit/ wiki recommendations list - which I'm damn well going to edit with some decent non-fiction).

>>1592285

Actually, now that I think of it, Malouf's Fly Away Peter tends to crop up on the lists every now and then. I'm actually having to look at his short story "the Kyogle Line" for a preliminary exercise for uni - he seems ok. Although, I know that it's from an autobiographical short story collection or some shit so it might be different to the rest of his work.

Anyways, I think it's really good that you're getting stuck into Australian literature, especially if you aren't even an Australian. People need to get out a bit more from the usual Anglo-American/19th Century French or Russian fare - especially on /lit/.

I'm reading The Vivisector by him right now. Shit's cash. Will pick up Voss later.

>>1592295
OP here. Great post. I haven't heard of half that stuff. I want to read Tree of Man, and I might end up writing about White for my end of term paper. The Malouf I've been reading was all poetry, but I'm about to start his novel An Imaginary Life.

And no, I'm not Aussie. Amerifag here.

>>1592330

Well if you haven't heard of most of it, you should take a gander at the /lit/ wiki and check the Australian recommendations list if you haven't (although why it doesn't have Henry Lawson's Short Stories and Banjo Paterson's Poetry for some "Bulletin debate" action - I don't know)

Also if you like White, I'd suggest David Marr's biography of him merely entitled "Patrick White". I've only had a little read of my copy just for a bit of context on Tree of Man, but it comes heavily recommended from the few acquaintances of mine who've read it in it's entirety.

Speaking of biographies - if you want a decent overview of Australian history just to give a bit of context to your reading - I'd have a skim through Manning Clark's "Short History of Australia". It's a decent overview, even if I do agree somewhat with the criticism of him that he's a bit more of a "frustrated biographer", than a historian.

Anywho - I best be off lest I miss my uni bus.

>>1592411
Thanks for all the recs. I will definitely check out Marr's biography of White and the Manning Clark book.

>>1592092
Tis on my reading list. I tried starting White with his short story collection 'The Burnt Ones', but found it generally pretty uncompelling, so I'm reluctant to read anything else of his.

As another ausfag - we read some Tim Winton (well worth checking out, even if he's a pretty obvious figure, as the other anon pointed out - his short stories are incredible), some Helen Garner (another popular melbourne name. mostly domestic feminist stuff. boring but good with prose imo), a couple of plays about Aboriginals that were both pretty shit, a short story collection about Asian-Australians, some Henry Lawson short stories (I'd heavily recommend) and some of Bruce Dawes poetry.

I did two different English subjects all the way through high school, though.

>Anyways, I think it's really good that you're getting stuck into Australian literature, especially if you aren't even an Australian.

This. Although I understand that a lot of what gets put out here is 'Australiana', and a pretty vocal aspiration of some of our writers is to capture the subtleties of the country, or frequently just one of the cities. Which tends to make more sense if you're Australian.

>>1592411
What uni you from, helpful anon?

>>1592481
This is the first I've read of White, I would recommend it. Not a difficult read but takes a little time (450 pages).

>I understand that a lot of what gets put out... tends to make more sense if you're Australian.

Yeah. I could see that. But that happens everywhere so I'm not too worried. Maybe it'll help me out if I ever get to visit Australia.

Thanks for the recs.

(realises he didn't have to leave until 11)

>>1592481

I've got a White short story coming up in my English unit from The Burnt Ones - are they all a bit dry or what?

>>1592493

La Trobe. Why? Do you reckon you know me from somewhere?

Anyways if this thread disappears in the mean time, I might start one tomorrow. Possibly under a trip.

>>1592656
>I've got a White short story coming up in my English unit from The Burnt Ones - are they all a bit dry or what?
They felt bumbling, like reading Chekhov in a bad translation or something. Unrefined banter without any urgency.

>La Trobe. Why? Do you reckon you know me from somewhere?
Nah, was just wondering if you were at my uni. Would've been cool to know for absolutely no reason. I'm a first year @ Melbourne.

>>1592519
>Yeah. I could see that. But that happens everywhere so I'm not too worried.
Oh, of course. I'm sure I'm only fine-tuned to that sort of thing in Aus. writing because I'm Australian.

In general fiction, anyway. There are some things though - the 'school of resentment' stuff (cool Anon is cool because I agree with Bloom on that issue, if nothing else) that context is more important than usual for. I think, anyway.

OP's back. I just woke up, so good morning /lit/. It's 7am and I have to study modern poetry for the next four hours.

Any other /lit/ people read Voss? Otherwise Australian lit general thread.

>>1592092
Hey, I read the first few pages of it and really liked where it was going, very cool to see an active Patrick White thread going on.

>>1592285
That's a very surprising way to describe his work considering I find what I've read so far to be fairly refined, or at least deliberate. Can you recall where that quote was? I think what could be mistaken for sludge is (again my experience being a few pages of Voss and half of The Vivisector) is actually just a diverse use of uncommon words. A mishmash of working-class slang and dead root words really. In some of the more dramatic sections of his work I note a tendency to work by degrees through his comfort levels. Let me explain. I find that the brunt of The Vivisector is conveyed through description and interior acknowledgement or analysis of these surroundings; more insightful or piercing moments of the novel being executed in dialogue between the characters. At clinch-points the dialogue and description seem to "melt" together in what I view as a restrained stream of consciousness approach. A lot of key details are omitted or described in peripheral ways, details that would show up clearly in description in a less "important" part of the book.

I guess on the other hand he's more interested in the natural, physical, tactile environment. The Vivisector is very tied into light and Australian flora. Sticky flora.

>>1592326
What strange timing, I'm reading The Vivisector as well. Having as good a time as I am?

As far as other Australians go I read a portion of The Man Who Loved Children (80 some pages) and found it very lovely indeed. Unfortunate circumstances made me put it down for now but I plan on coming back to it later.

not caps, but I'm Australian, so yeah, loads of bullshit Malouf (have met him in person), Patrick White is usually move adavnce (uni) stuff. Also did Dorothy Porter, Les Murray and Henry Lawson for poetry. Louis Nowra is probably the only Australian writer I enjoy.

>>1592819
Hi, I'm a 3rd year at melb u.

The only good Australian poets are the Augustans, particularly A.D. Hope.
The rest are all bullshit, along with the writers.

>>1593698
I wouldn't describe White's writing as sludge either. I really enjoyed reading Voss because of White's ability to move back and forth between Victorian dialogue/sensibility and a surreal inner torment inhabited by many characters. There were a couple things that annoyed me throughout, mainly White's repetition of certain phrases (not for effect) and he is constantly switching between people's first and last names or their profession, which becomes a little confusing. However, these were minor issues and I would definitely recommend Voss.

>>1593715
lol someone should have told that to the Nobel Committee before they gave White the prize.

>>1593724
Many awful writers have received acclaim.

>>1593731
Fine. I'm not trying to turn this thread into a pissing contest. If you have a problem with White or another Aussie writer tell us why, not just that they are bullshit.

>>1593715

You saying my poetry is shit.

(Well...it is because I started writing it when I was too plastered for a short story).

>>1593767

Also I'm too plastered to post my own picture.

http://4chanlit.wikia.com/wiki//lit/_Wiki

>one of those forgettable "school of resentment" novels about Aboriginals or migrants

Anyone at school during the early 90s to the mid 00s did one of those. I did some shithouse play by Jane someone. It says a lot about Australian society that aboriginals or things of an indigenous nature aren't inherently interesting enough to be popularised - in stark contrast to the country's career criminals, for instance

>>1592819

If it makes you feel better, I do abuse my library peering privileges at your library every now and then.

>>1593698

The full quote is on here - http://www.abc.net.au/arts/white/life/life5/life_E08.html

That site is really good if you can't get a hold of David Marr's book any time soon.


>>1593789

That's the thing: Aboriginals can be interesting in literature - it's just everybody is "pushing the issues" rather than having any kind literary merit, or with something more aesthetic going on that isn't just harping. Of course it's understandable that these kind of books are assigned - your average suburban Aussie kid is an ignorant shit head. At the same time this kind of thing was basically a over-reaction to the Howard years. Of course this has created a generation of annoying, reactionary conservatives, reacting to that kind of thing. But I'm digressing from mere lit there.

Xavier Herbert proved you could do a political novel about Indigenous Australians (including some with full-on author surrogates rants) and yet still possess actual literary merit because has that satirical slant. It's a pity a lot of these authors can't do the same (Larissa Behrendt, I'm talking about you) in a manner that's accessible to younger audiences.

>>1593815
Very nice link, thank you for posting.

OP here. Just got back from class. Bumping for new interest. I need something to make me forget all the post-WWII Brit poetry I've been reading.

>Aussie lit anyone? Bonus points if you've read Voss.

>>1594188

Well, if you want more recommendations that aren't on the wiki, then I'd suggest looking at the winners of the Miles Franklin Award -
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miles_Franklin_Award

There's a couple of misses - but when have literary awards ever been perfect? The Miles Franklin tends to at least have far more credibility than the Booker at least (I will never forgive them for giving the award to Ian McEwan's worst novel at the time) and less forgettables like the Pullitzer

Just to add when it comes to Peter Temple's "Truth" (which'd be the first book you see on that list) - I'd heartily recommend reading "The Broken Shore"" beforehand.

Other Aussie lit awards that make for decent recommendations the Vogels and the Age Book of the Year award (which covers non-fiction as well._ Speaking of which - apparently Don Watson's American Journeys is supposed to be one of the best books a foreigner has written about your country. If his Paul Keating book was anything to go by, I really need to read it.

Also here's a decent resource:

http://www.middlemiss.org/lit/lit.html
and the blog that goes with it -
http://www.middlemiss.org/matilda/

How can we have an Aus lit thread without mentioning "young adult" equivalent of Red Dawn? Or Yellow Dawn, if you will.

If nothing, the series deserves to be read just as an illustration that you should always end a series at it's natural end-point.

Not to mention: Ammonium Nitrate solves everything.

Oh my god, this thread is still alive?

>>1596603

It's a minor miracle of multiple time-zone posting.

To be honest the fact the fact that we don't have at least one thread on here about an Australian writer on here most of the time is a little shameful. There's more to English lit than that of the U.S, the U.K, Ireland and Margaret Atwood.