/lit/ - Literature

you just like being controversial and wrong, don't you.

I'm sure there are many good immunology textbooks that will set the record straight

>shouldn't be optional
Categorically wrong

social contract theory?

>>16143797
he doesn't care about that. he wants to talk about politics.

She's just trying to take the heat off her husband because he's been relentlessly shitting on the Democrats for the past few weeks.

why get a vaccine when you can just take a harmless malaria pill?

>>16143797
>le scientism
Fuck off

>>16143814
Her husband is based.

>>16143797
im sure an immunology textbook will surely tell you whether this particular rushed vaccine is safe

>>16143791
>Brown-nig
How did she get away with it?

>>16143791
i wonder how that correlates with the number of americans who don't believe in evolution

>>16143864
Where is the scientism?

>>16143864
that's not scientism, you retard

>>16144164
>>16144173
Samefag

>>16143886
>accepting a theory that has been developed and elaborated on for nearly a century and a half
>equivalent to taking a vaccine for an illness that is asymptomatic in most healthy young people that has been rushed through standard FDA vaccine protocol
It took decades to make a safe polio vaccine; recognizing this fact doesn't make you some kooky anti-vaxer. If anything, it makes you more scientifically-minded if you resist being forced to take a vaccine that's been developed in less than a year.

>shouldn't be optional
For over 60s and people with serious health conditions. It's unnecessary for everyone else

>>16143799
She's right though. You shouldn't have the freedom to infect people with a virus.

>>16143864
kys faggot. Also learn what scientism is.

have fun getting jeffrey epstein's dna injected into your bloodstream retards

>>16144299
Why not? People have children every day.

>>16144318
My superior genes would wreck that faggot's DNA upon arrival. I see no downside.

>>16143864

>>16144334
thats what they want u to think

>>16143791

Just consider germ theory, is it rather sound or rather unsound? Countless microscopic particles of countless kinds enter a man throughout his life yet only a statistically insignificant percentage thereof has the most drastic effect. Compare to, say, macroscopic intrusion.

>>16143791
The Bible. Specifically, the book of Revelation:
>It also forced all people, great and small, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on their right hands or on their foreheads
>so that they could not buy or sell unless they had the mark, which is the name of the beast or the number of its name.
To access the social credit marketplace you're going to need to be chipped, tracked, frequently vaccinated, and masked.

>>16144356
It's true though.

>>16144391
Revelations is referring to tokens obtained by offering sacrifice to Rome's Gods, which Jews objected to as they are God's Chosen People and as such object to the idea of paying homage to Pagan Gods. It has nothing to do with vaccines.

>>16143876
The vaccine will be fine and perfectly safe, as all vaccines are.
>b-but muh mercury...
They stopped using mercury based stabilizers decades ago.

The real problem is that a blanket "coronavirus vaccine" is just flat out impossible, there's too many strands. They couldn't do this with SARS, they can't do it with this. All it will do is protect you from a particular strand. There are now hundreds. As the Right was talking about back in December, eventually it will just fade out and be like the flu: just part of daily life. At best, each year you'd get a Covid shot like you do a Flu shot, with immunologists try to predict which strains of the flu will be most prevalent (or rather, which of the worst strains will be the most prevalent) and the vaccines being used targeted against those strains.

>>16144318
this

>>16144441
those who take the vaccine (and demand others take the vaccine) will also take the mark. the two are indelibly linked. their highest authority is "the science"

>>16143791
>trusting rushed vaccines
>for a virus that people are testing positive again for 3 months after recovery
ishygddt

>>16144477
No, there is no relation between these two things at all. Revelations is referring to tokens of loyalty that were required to be owned in order to buy and sell. These tokens indicated loyalty to the Roman state, emperor, and Gods. Jews, such as the author of Revelations (although traditionally said to be written by John the Apostle, or John the Baptist, we now know that this is not the case) objected to this, as they were God's Chosen People and as such rejected the entire notion of fealty to gentiles and gentile Gods (you are a gentile, by the way).

The vaccine won't and indeed cannot be used as a means of determining whether you can "buy or sell" (which is a meaningless statement in the modern period), the tests take too long and are not visible. You'd have to be tattooed or something, which is illegal.

At best you could argue microchips, but these aren't actually feasible (your body will reject them within like, a month, tops; this is why trannies have to dilate), and are really easy to remove (the only way to make them detectable by any sort of easily distributed technology would be to have them in your skin, not under, so you could just gnaw them out).

>>16144532
>we now know that this is not the case
We know no such thing. You're a pathetic loser pseud.

>>16144532
>the author of Revelations (although traditionally said to be written by John the Apostle, or John the Baptist, we now know that this is not the case) objected to this, as they were God's Chosen People and as such rejected the entire notion of fealty to gentiles and gentile Gods (you are a gentile, by the way).
what the fuck is this lol

>>16143791
J.Salk
Man Unfolding (1972)
Survival of the Wisest (1973)
World Population and Human Values: A New Reality (1981)
Anatomy of Reality: Merging of Intuition and Reason (1983)

>>16144391
>>16144532
>Travel, instead of being easy for old folks, travel then would become very restricted. People would need permission to travel and they would need a good reason to travel. If you didn't have a good reason for your travel you would not be allowed to travel, and everyone would need ID. This would at first be an ID card you would carry on your person and you must show when you are asked for it. It was already planned that later on some sort of device would be developed to be implanted under the skin that would be coded specifically to identify the individual. This would eliminate the possibility of false ID and also eliminate the possibility of people saying "Well, I lost my ID." The difficulty about these skin implant that ID was stated to be getting material that would stay in or under the skin without causing foreign body reaction whereby the body would reject it or cause infection, and that this would have to be material on which information could be recorded and retrieved by some sort of scanner while it was not rejected by the body. Silicon was mentioned. Silicon at that time was thought to be well tolerated. It was used to augment breasts. Women who felt their breasts were too small would get silicon implants, and I guess that still goes on. At any rate silicon was seen at that time as the promising material to do both: to be retained in the body without rejection and to be able to retain information retrievable by electronic means.
The New Order of Barbarians

After 40 years of failure to find a cure for the common cold (coronavirus), big pharma came up with a vaccine for coronaviruses in 6 months? Wow!

>>16144532
>early Christians
>Jews in anything but lineage
Why do you behave in such an insufferable fashion?

>m-muh scientism

the second anyone ever uses that word to discredit science you should immediately throw their opinions out the window

I don't care what your opinion on vaccines is, you fat redditor, vaccines should be mandatory and there's no good argument proving otherwise

>>16144994
>spend $100 on the rushed vaccine, goy

>>16145024
who's to say that jews aren't trying to subvert society by starting anti-vaxxer movements

Paul Offit, Dangerous Choices

>>16144994
>vaccines should be mandatory and there's no good argument proving otherwise
How about a punch in the face, would that be good enough for you?

>>16145074
>How about a punch in the face, would that be good enough for you?

>>16145039
The haredi are the biggest anti-vaxxers in America. Everyone demonizes soccer mom karens on the west coast, but like two years ago that measles outbreak ripped through every haredi community in the united states because none of them get vaccinated, but since they don't go to public schools, they don't really need to

>>16144299
Can you infect someone vaccined, idiot?

>>16144994
People like you should be enjailed. Ancient civilizations lasted thousands of years without these lead-laced poisons.

>>16145101
you believe them when they tell the news (((they're))) not vaccinating? you know they can easily fabricate those outbreaks in their communities right?

The media claims anti-bodies from covid only last 3 months, so how is a vaccine going to work then? Are they really planning on having all of us get quarterly vaccinations for the rest of history? Which company has the patents? I want to buy that stock!

>>16145112
proof? ancient civilizations had extremely high mortality rates compared to today and were often ravaged by plagues regularly

>>16145112
>lead-laced poisons
It's mercury that's in vaccines isn't it? I don't really know anything about the subject but it seems plausible that the mercury could do something harmful sometimes. I guess it's a matter of which is the greater risk to the greater number of people, which usually comes down in favor of vaccines.

>>16144470
> read an immunology textbook
> all vaccines are safe

> what are statistics and drug labels stating that negative effects (some life altering and permanent) DO AND WILL happen to some fraction of people, even if it's a small fraction

The theory of vaccines is great, and many of them do their job. But only a retard would say "all vaccines have no side effects on anyone ever" you fucking button pusher.

>>16145116
The news barely covered them, the news spend most of the outbreak demonizing weird christian sects on the west coast, but since I live in an area with a big haredi pop, the local news couldn't not cover it, at least a little.

>>16145139
that's all apart of their plan, what don't you understand

>>16144470
>The vaccine will be fine and perfectly safe, as all vaccines are.

Read about what happened with the dengue fever vaccine in the Philippines a couple of years ago

>>16144391
But isn't that a good thing? Why would christcucks want to prolong human suffering on earth anymore? They're usually giddy about end times

>>16143799
It should be optional. Then again, if everyone in town wants people to be vaccinated, they should be able to kick you out if you don’t want to take the liquid jew. Same thing with everything else. Exile fixes a lot of issues.

>>16144441
The uncanny accurate description should be enough to make you realize that both are possible explanations.

>>16144470
There were 50,000 doses of the polio vaccine that had live virus in it, and fucked people up, lmao, even one of the most successful vaccines of all time had a deadly fuckup in the first gen launch

>>16145129
From what we have recorded, egyptian civilization lasted more than 4 thousand years (not to count pre-historic egypt, which some historians dated back to 30.000 BC).

>>16143791
>forced windows 10 updates that fuck various random components/functions and even brick computers
>forced vaccine that ???

you get it first. show me 20 years from now that nothing bad happened, and maybe i'll consider it. i'm not trusting a rushed untested concoction of god knows what by the guy behind windows who loves eugenics and mass unconsensual sterilization programs hidden behind vaccines (he already did this in india and africa) and a vaccine that they passed a bill that you can't sue them for harm if it fucks you up, to get jabbed into me against a slightly-worse-than-average seasonal flu with a 99.983% survival rate

>>16145175
Yeah, and the mummies are all fucked up with small pox and other shit

>>16144532
>The vaccine won't and indeed cannot be used as a means of determining whether you can "buy or sell" (which is a meaningless statement in the modern period), the tests take too long and are not visible. You'd have to be tattooed or something, which is illegal.
Those who do not get the vaccine will not be permitted to work, go to school or interact with society. Bill Gates is working out some sort of vaccine digital certification method too. It’s the Mark. Elites don’t care about laws

>>16144554
Christians (and Muslims) aren't the only ones who despise polytheism. This is part of why Jews hate Christians so much, they see Christianity as foul tritheism.

>>16144548
>>16144984
It's pretty clear from the language that the author of Revelations uses that he's not the same guy who wrote either John's Gospel or Epistles. There's linguistic errors and inconsistencies between the Gospel/Epistles and Revelations that either indicate some sort of scribal issue, or that Revelations was written by who wasn't perfect in Greek. By contrast, the Greek in the Gospel/Epistles is good, and consistent between the two. One possibility is that John was only dictating his Gospel, but then, that raises the question of why he dictated the Gospel and wrote the Epistles. A third option is that the Gospel/Epistles were collected by early Christians and edited for errors, and that Revelations, being written by someone else (or perceived as such) received no such treatment. A number of Church Fathers rejected Revelations, so this idea isn't really all that radical.

A second problem is that the Gospel/Epistles have consistent symbolism and themes that diverge from Judaism, whereas Revelations is packed full of an odd sort of mishmash of crypto-Jewish and messianic themes. He does, however, directly reference Jesus, and not "an ambigous messiah Christians claim as jesus", but Jesus himself, the Lamb of God, the Logos, the guy who got crucified. So it's clear that whoever he was, he was writing early, he wasn't John, and he accepted Jesus as the Messiah. At this point there isn't really an "orthodoxy" for Christianity, so this sort of crypto-Messianic Judaism isn't to be unexpected, and the author's view of Christ's messiahood as being more similar to what the Jews expected their messiah to be like (his coming results in the enslavement of all gentiles and bodily immortality for all Jews) than what John and Paul and friends thought it would be like. He was just some Jewish guy, who saw Rome encroaching, saw gentiles moving in, the end of Jewish privilege was at an end, clearly this was the end times.

If you're falling for the "The Bible is a consistent document written by one guy in one sitting" problem, then stop that, because it isn't.

>>16145180
Bill Gates doesn't even have a bachelors.

>>16145154
Or the swine flu vaccine of 1976.

Affecting small numbers is still significant. Individual living humans aren't just numbers, so the people saying we should impose vaccines to help people are really just assholes trying to impose their decision on everyone even if it definitely WILL hurt some people.

For me, the coronavirus risk is low. If it's high for you, then get the vaccine. But that's only because the coronavirus risk is higher than the vaccine risk. That isn't the case for low risk people—the coronavirus risk is a known low, but the vaccine may not be, and only adds another layer of risk.

Again, some low risk people WILL suffer from coronavirus. But they should be free to make an informed decision about their own health rather than have some faggy emotional libshit inject some corporate serum into them because it makes libshits feel good.

>>16145131
>but it seems plausible that the mercury could do something harmful sometimes.
The compound in the preservative indeed has mercury. It is very easily seen as completely inert with any chem/orgo chem knowledge. There is no reaction mechanism in the body that is capable of breaking it.

>>16145160
No, there is no similarity what so ever, it's pretty clear what Revelations is talking about. The author literally tells us, after all.

>>16145196
This year I'm starting to realize Democrats are truly dangerous. They are so easily influenced by anything on TV.

>>16145183
They had herbs and mixtures with even antibiotic properties

>>16145197
>It is very easily seen as completely inert with any chem/orgo chem knowledge. There is no reaction mechanism in the body that is capable of breaking it.
do we honestly know enough about all the biochemistry of a human body to say that? My problem is that I don't really trust academics to honestly research this and similar issues.

Obviously it's not fucking people up en masse so maybe that is good enough.

>>16145197
>has
Had. Thiomersal stopped being used as a vaccine preservative almost two decades ago.

>>16145194
he can't even program, he stole windows from some actual programmer literally who. he's just a thug and a liar and an egomaniac.

i disabled the forced updates on my OS and i'll disable the forced vaccine with a bullet to the heads of nurses/doctors/politicians if necessary. No means No. my body my choice. the vaccine doesn't even make SENSE. as other anons pointed out, it changes too rapidly to immunize against, and even flu shots are largely ineffective and a huge meme. it's bunk. i'm not getting it and, at best, it's security theater. before we talk about mandating everyone obey some literally who that no one even elected's personal whims which change on a day to day basis, how about first we ask if this even went through would it even be effective to begin with?

do the masks actually work? no, there is no literature pointing that they do. but they rushed to mandate it anyway.

does/would the vaccine actually work? well, we sure don't have a cure for the common cold yet now do we, and the seasonal flu vaccine is a crapshoot at best. so, the scientific and reasoned answer is that it's bunk. and they're going to mandate it. fucking try me. i'm not getting jabbed with crap from the same guy who caused widespread birth defects in india and sterilization programs in africa just to make some CNN watching karen feel safe.

>>16145039
People have called out Jews for vaccination-pushing for a while

>>16145219
Yes. A lot of time and money was spent on this. There is no evidence that thiomersal causes autism. At all. None.

Organomercury compounds aren't fun, and while thiomersal is pretty fucking stable, is used in incredibly low concentrations, AND while ethylmercury compounds are far safer than methyl mercury compounds (tl;dr they leave the body faster so they have less time to break down and make nasty shit), there was concern about them, which is why thiomsersal hasn't been used as a vaccine preservative since like, 2000. It has no links to autism, and as we can see, there's still autism even though we no longer use it.

>>16145175
didn't address my argument, just because a society can last with a high mortality rate doesn't mean a society with a low mortality rate can't

>>16145245
>do the masks actually work? no, there is no literature pointing that they do. but they rushed to mandate it anyway.
Masks are a very different question. For one thing it costs you nothing to wear one, and for another many of the countries that managed better wore masks(not all of them though, it's honestly a bit confusing and bizarre trying to figure out why some countries get hit and others don't).

I do remember early on though our 'experts' telling us not to wear masks, so I'm hardly taking them seriously now that they mandate it. It's more that it just makes sense to me.

>>16145210
They have a dangerous mix of mental problems, but the mindless deferral of thought to shitty authorities in a shittily vetted system that promotes sociopaths and leeches is DEFINITELY one of them.

To say nothing about how they created this system, or that they celebrate this mental deficiency as "trusting science".

>>16145187
None of that makes any sense. How do you expect literally any of that to work?

>>16143791
>Red pill
There really isn't one, there's just a lot of ignorant people throughout the process.

The chemicals in vaccines are a red herring. Neurological damage from mercury is basically nonexistence. Organic mercury in vaccines is pretty nonreactive, and no more dangerous for you than eating fish is. Don't inject yourself with a liter of vaccine, you'll die of nervous system deterioration. But in small amounts your body largely ignores it, and ethyl (not methyl) mercury is a useful reagent.

The big danger of vaccines is that the immunization process isn't about magically rendering chemicals inert. It is about tuning your immune system to be highly reactive against a chemical species. If you mistarget the vaccine, you can provoke a long-term autoimmune reaction. You can end up tuning your body to attack itself. Despite the hand-waving of unthinking !SCIENCE! types who think everybody should just be forced to take a vaccine, putting ANY shit in your body, even including food and alcohol, should be a process you at least think about before doing. Your body is largely tuned to operate in a very narrow range of conditions, viruses break those conditions, and immunization is another intrusion designed to hopefully undo this. Sticking any shit in your body can be dangerous, ESPECIALLY when it's designed to make a permanent change to the function of a major bodily system.

Sticking dead virus into your body is pretty much the safest immunization method, but live virus inclusion can happen. Direct antibody innoculation is fairly dangerous, mRNA innoculation is even more dangerous. I'm personally going to wait a few months after the vaccine launches to get vaccinated, just out of an abundance of caution.

>>16145220
Even better. Nice.

>>16145255
>>16145197
Holy shit. Science is literally a cult.

They are also using cells from aborted fetuses. And people not only accept it, but want to make it mandatory.

>>16145270
Two layers of pillowsheet has like a 95% effectiveness rate at catching particles the size of the virus, so you should be wearing one for YOUR safety, and even a fucking kleenex will catch any droplets you spew if you've caught it and aren't symptomatic yet. Masks are VERY effective.

The problem is not everyone wore one. I live in a city with a pretty decent nog and spic community, only Whites wore masks. Mask ordinances and laws are meaningless if people don't wear masks.

>>16145285
Another problem is who gives them. I don't want vaccines put out by Bill Gates and friends, not because he wants to give my kids autism or whatever, but because I want him to have as little power as I possibly can.

>>16145309
>this thing we were putting in peoples bodies has a very low chance of causing harm!
>shit, you're right! we'd better stop putting it in peoples bodies!
So... Do you WANT the thiomersal in vaccines?

>>16145270
You should wear the mask. The experts were retards before, and while their retardation is still applicable it's more that someone with severe brain damage might take 10 minutes to realize 2+2=4 after guessing several other stupid answers. I do enough work with fluidics to know that the masks were always the correct option. You don't even have to buy one. If you have an old shirt or pillowcase or something just cut it up to make the mask. If it's a sunny day, leave it in direct sunlight for fifteen minutes after use and it will be good to go again.

>>16145202
What did the author say exactly and where in the KJV?

>>16145255
>tl;dr they leave the body faster so they have less time to break down and make nasty shit),
Meaning they can break down in the body if they don't get out? I am mostly just speaking from a point of caution, injecting random stuff into your body is often going to have unexpected effects, I know that they know this better than I do, but again I don't entirely trust the system of incentives that have been set up by the various institutions responsible for things like vaccines.

>>16145333
>leave it in direct sunlight for fifteen minutes after use and it will be good to go again

but I thought the virus could live on Amazon boxes for up to 36 hours?!

>>16145310
That was one vaccine a while ago. We can produce stem cells directly from human skin lines so they don't need to use fetal stem cells for antibody production anymore.

>>16145326
No one should listen to fucking Bill Gates' opinion on anything medical. He is a computer engineer and one who hasn't done any real work in that field in a while. He isn't a trained medical professional, I don't even know if he has the experience to parse what a trained medical professional is telling him. Normies have this stupid decision matrix where they just assume everyone with money or knowledge of some area must be successful and knowledgeable in all areas. Bill Gates is a computer nerd. I cannot overstate the difference between comp sci and biology, especially medical biology. They are vastly different, almost incomperable.

>>16145348
On the off chance you're seriousness, no. The people saying that the first few weeks were retarded. Direct UV exposure sterilizes basically everything.

>>16145375
Not a while ago, this was the method employed in this new Oxford one.

>>16145337
The danger is methylmercury compounds; a mercury ion bonded to a carbon atom which has three hydrogens attached. It mimics an essential amino acid, so when it gets in you (it's absorbed 100% by the digestive tract) it roars through you, in your blood, into your brain. It causes a lot of nasty things.

ETHYLMERCURY, which is part of what makes up thiomersal, is different. It doesn't get absorbed by your digestive tract, so you poop most of it out. What does get absorbed should cycle through you, and eventually get pooped and peed out. If it breaks down into methylmercury, then, well, it's methylmercury in you.

The worry is that the thiomersal would break down into ethylmecruy which would break down into methylmercury.

Make no mistake, thiomersal is TOXIC if you eat it, as is ethylmercury and methylmercury. But the amount in vaccines is so goddamn tiny. Like, GODDAMN tiny. So even though is "safe", it was taken out of vaccines because it's only "safe", not "you literally cannot die from this" safe.

>>16145270
"Do masks work (as in, do they reduce the disease chance" and "should you wear the mask" are two different question. The answer for the first is "maybe" and for the second is "definitely no".

>>16145424
Oh those retards are still using fetal stem cells them? Lazy lazy. They should know better. And of course it's Oxford.

>>16145270
>it costs you nothing to wear one
nothing but my freedom and humanity

>>16145437
Are you seriously suggesting that the sum total of your freedom and humanity comes down to whether or not you've got a strip of fucking cloth on your face?

>>16145437
i only don't wear a mask cuz my phone has face-id, next time i buy a phone i'll downgrade to the fingerprint one

After I got week of fever and month of sickness after a flu vaccine, I will not take any vaccines unless literally forced to. Since there were no working coronavirus vaccines before, the probability of actually getting a working one is even smaller.

>>16145453
woah, i just checked apple's site, i can trade in my xs max and get an se2 free, might have to consider it if covid isn't cancelled after the election, gonna hold off until november tho

>>16144391
That's a reference to phylacteries no? Right hand and forehead is where we put them

>>16143791
>vaccine found within months

really makes you think also i got the feeling that once is being used the goverments and WHO going to say that it actually dont work causing another crisis.

>>16145450
All the stuff of the last months did not help too.

where do I get a qt woke journalist gf?
they are so cute bros

>>16145429
Thank you for the information. Unfortunately I simply lack the background to really evaluate these things myself, so I just have to take your word or someone else's for it. I did agree anyway that if the risks exist they must be pretty small or people would have noticed, even if they had been willing to sweep it under the rug a bit.

>>16145476
If you decide you're so pissed you want to dump rounds into some senator's house over their advocacy of legal restrictions, I can't and won't stop you. But making the voluntary decision to not wear a mask simply because you've staked your entire fucking existence on "not wearing a mask" is utterly retarded. You can be opposed to illegal government overreach into civilian lives and still make socially responsible decisions for yourself. It's like deciding you don't like that it's illegal to drive drunk so you down a fifth of vodka every time you go for a drive.

There really doesn't have to be an overlap between "Things I do to be responsible" and "Things the government should make people do". Refusing to wear a mask because you think the government shouldn't mandate it is a negative affirmation of people who wear a mask solely to express their support of the government requiring them. You are both still advocating the position that it's the government's job to decide reasonable behavior.

>>16145450
Yes.

>>16145517
If you're going to base your existence of defying what disgusting cucks and redditors do solely to define yourself as "not-them", then by all means do us a favor and stop using your fucking computer too since those idiots love tech so much.

>>16145112
>Can you infect someone vaccined, idiot?
The absolute state of humanities fags.
Of course not with the same mutation, but antivaxers will let the virus survive and mutate so that it impacts the vaxed people again.

>>16145511
>But making the voluntary decision to not wear a mask simply because you've staked your entire fucking existence on "not wearing a mask" is utterly retarded.
Of course it's not the whole existence, but today it's a very pressing question. But you should probably resist in other ways too.
>and still make socially responsible decisions for yourself.
But not wearing the mask is currently the most responsible decision. That's actually the main reason I wouldn't wear one, the uncomfortableness/inefficiency of masks being only the second.
>Refusing to wear a mask because you think the government shouldn't mandate it is a negative affirmation of people who wear a mask solely to express their support of the government requiring them. You are both still advocating the position that it's the government's job to decide reasonable behavior.
Ah, so if the government forces me to do something unreasonable, then by not doing it I support the right of government to force unreasonable things? That's some wonderful piece of logic, but it didn't convince me at all.

>>16145559
You're both retarded.
The viruses spread through a population is reflective of the exposure of the virus to new individuals. If it only spreads on average to 2 people per person infected, then statistically it will start to collapse in its ability to spread if more than 50% of the population can't be exposed to it due to masking, vaccination, social distancing/moving things outside.

>>16145537
That's a nice attempt of reverse psychology (or a reverse reverse psychology?), but such recursive stuff rarely works.

>>16145559
So vaxxers will get both vaccine and the virus? Truly unlucky guys.

>>16145594
>vaccination, social distancing/moving things outside
Unless you are suggesting this to be the only methods to use (for perhaps quite long), you didn't even give an argument against me.

>>16145606
Spot on.
That's why it makes sense to make vaccination mandatory. Idk what started all those conspiracy theories anyway.

>>16145631
Well, if something is suddenly made mandatory, that alone makes it a good reason to avoid it. So guess you'll still get your mutations.

>>16145582
>Not wearing the mask is currently the most responsible decision
It really isn't. It's an aerosolizing virus. The only way to prevent spread in enclosed areas is to disrupt airflow out of the body. So you should wear a mask when you're indoors, especially if the area is poorly ventilated. I'm not hardcore on this and I don't see a reason to be. I don't wear a mask in coffee shops, and I rarely if ever wear one outdoors unless it's crowded. But if you're grocery shopping it's a good plan, and once the gyms are crowded again I'll probably wear one there too. And they're neither uncomfortable nor inefficient if you get a mask that's actually good and not just some random fucking handkerchief tied around your face.

>Ah, so if the government forces me to do something unreasonable, then by not doing it I support the right of government to force unreasonable things
That's a mischaracterization of what's happening. Arguing the government should only force reasonable things is a cover for arguing that the government should only force things you believe are reasonable. Presumably you don't think it's okay for the government to force you to do things you think are unreasonable if many people think it's reasonable. But you should really be arguing the government has no right to force anything, reasonable or unreasonable. And so by deciding that wearing a mask is unreasonable because the government forcing you to wear it is unreasonable, you are indirectly supporting the position that the government should only force things that are reasonable, when the best position is that the government should force as little as possible or nothing, whether it's reasonable or unreasonable.

In other words, the underside of your declaration that "It's unreasonable to force someone to wear a mask, so wearing masks is unreasonable", is that if the thing being forced was reasonable you would comply with it. When really, your decisions should be unrelated to the mandates of the government entirely, which should never factor into how you live your life at all.

>>16145661
Fucking burgers should fix their education already.
And Aussies too, of course.

>>16145450
you're a disingenuous little fag.
here, shut up, here's the argument: do you have the right to tell me what to do with my own body?

if you want to wear a mask, go wear one, no one is stopping you.

>>16144470
>there are too many strands
What the fuck is a "strand" you fucking moron? SARS-CoV-2 is a single strain under one species of Coronaviridae. Mutations are prevalent but not as powerful as AIDS. An effective vaccine is beyond possible.

>they couldn't do it with SARS
SARS infected less than ten thousand people.

>>16145726
I literally told someone in >>16145511 that I am okay with them committing a capital offense and a terrorist act in response to the government forcing them to do something. I am not trying to force you to get vaccinated or wear a mask. I am just telling you that you are a complete retard for refusing to do so.

>>16145670
1)During the last half-year governments did an insane amount of unreasonable or clearly malignant things.
2)They are also forcing masks on everyone now.
3)Masks may have some use, or they may be harmful, but that alone is a lesser question compared to the previous two points
So to answer your second question: it's not that the thing itself is necessarily unreasonable. It's that its context and its forcedness are fully unreasonable.
>When really, your decisions should be unrelated to the mandates of the government entirely, which should never factor into how you live your life at all.
That will only be true if the government will stop impacting my life in any way, which is clearly and definitely false. The reverse impact is very small, but isn't nonexistent too. So actions of government should actually be taken in account by me, one way or another.

>>16145670
The viruses are like 50-200 nanometers, they pass through the masks. If you can breathe there is no way the virus will not be prompted forward. Also masks are bad for your immune system.

>>16145734
viruses don't even really have species

>>16145744
that's like, your opinion bro. but great we're in agreement that no one elected you and you don't have the god damned right to tell me what to do.

now fuck off with your mandates.

>>16145744
Judging by my experience with flu vaccines, not doing vaccines can be a very good decision on its own. Also masks are simply uncomfortable and their health impact is questionable. So even if there is no context at all, not doing these things sounds like a wise decision.

>>16145753
Beyond their "realm" viridea they're specified with the same taxonomy as real living beings. They do have species.

>>16145734
covid is just sars modified in a lab to be more contagious, if you look at the list of phds that worked at the wuhan virology lab, one of them specialized in gain of function research on coronaviruses, and she actually used to do her research in a lab in wisconsin but obama banned gain of function research as too dangerous so she went back to china

>>16145782
there was also a case in the 2000s in singapore where a grad student infected himself with sars in a supposedly secure lab, so leaks are most def not impossible, especially with the lax standards china had prior to last november

>>16145748
>That will only be true if the government will stop impacting my life in any way, which is clearly and definitely false.
Are you high? How does it make any sense to say "My decisions are made independently of external authority" only when there is no external authority trying to make your decisions. It's ridiculous and tautological. It's like saying "I like the idea of swimming but I don't think it's possible unless I was in the middle of the ocean".

>>16145754
>"Dude you can't just walk into the street there's a semi coming are you retarded"
>"FUCK OFF WITH YOUR MAND-" WHUMP

>>16145855
Anon, are you OK? Are you an enlightened buddha who is fully independent of government, spacetime and life sufferings? if you are, then please forgive my inability to ascend to your level.

>>16145868
If all the anti-maskers will quickly die, then your troubles will solve themselves.

>>16145868
nice strawman

you might rape someone one day. hold still for your mandatory castration. you might punch someone one day. hold still while we cut your hands off. you might commit a crime some day. sit inside your apartment while we weld the windows and doors shut.

>>16144299
What you think is irrelevant :)

>>16145931
>Hey, there's this disease going around and you might spread it without knowing you're sick. You should wear a mask that has no serious effects but will stop this from happening
>Hey, rape happens so we're cutting your dick off. You don't need it lol
>These are the same
Can you even conceive how retarded you sound?

>>16145901
Having your decisions passively affected by the fact that you live in a specific environment is not even remotely similar to making the active and willful decision to do the opposite of whatever someone tells you to do for no reason other than to spite them.

>>16146026
They are the same because they force you to do something because of a condition you most likely don't have.

>>16146049
>Force
I don't get why I have to keep saying this, but your desperately repeating "You're forcing people to wear masks!" does not change the fact that I am not forcing you to wear a mask. I am telling you that you are retarded for NOT wearing a mask.

>>16146026
When I interact with someone, I may follow what he tells me out of respect, make my decisions without caring about his opinion or do the reverse to spite him. This depends on whether I like him and whether I consider him sane/well-intentioned. Before the corona fiasco I was somewhere between first and second mode, but now the actions of the government and coronaphobes moved me somewhere between second and third.

>>16146062
>I am not forcing you to wear a mask
If you have the mask mandate in your area, then government actually forces you to wear masks (and same is true for its supporters).

>>16146088
So you agree with me basically

>>16146074
Well that's a retarded operating methodology.

>>16146102
No, it's pretty good and obvious. It doesn't even matter if you are interacting with government or with some person. If they are purely neutral for you, just mind your interest. If they are your friends or enemies, take that in account.

>>16146102
>So you agree with me basically
Agree with what? That we currently have forced masks?

>>16143802
lmao

>>16145537
why are you seething like this? does the thought of an individual choosing not to comply with cuck-muzzle mandates in the globo-homo-corporate "new normal" upset you that much? are you ok, NPC-333?

dr. fauci even said masks don't work, it's science

>>16146124
Yeah but you're not taking it into account at all. What you're describing is having a normal "neutral" routine you follow 90% of the time and when you like someone you completely override it to do what they want you to, and when you don't like someone you completely override it to do the opposite of what they want you to. Whether people are dangerous for you or beneficial for you is always relevant to how you make your decisions, but not in the way that "I just spite everyone I don't like and help everyone I do". That's pointless and emotional.

Suppose I'm doing A, and my enemy wants me to do B. Conscious they're my enemy, I might keep doing A, B if there's a good reason, or some other option C, but I'd be retarded for just doing -B. Someone being a dangerous person for you should factor into your reasoning, but it's retarded to just do "The opposite of what that person wants".

>>16145431
Retard

>>16143864
Why do these people always laud "science" when it confirms their racist worldview, but absolutely detest every other facet of it?

>>16144391
Based shizo

>>16146257
>muh science

>>16145450
If wearing cloth on your face is actually effective at preventing the spread of disease, why shouldn't we as a society wear masks in public at all times, even if a vaccine were developed for Covid-19? It doesn't cost anything, right? What do we have to gain by quitting the mask policy in the future? The flu is still deadly to the same demographics as covid. The mask costs nothing to wear, why stop? More lives would be saved.

>>16146948
that's why chinese people always wear masks even when there isn't a pandemic on, don't you have any chinese people in your area, or do you live in a low income area

>>16145511
>It's like deciding you don't like that it's illegal to drive drunk so you down a fifth of vodka every time you go for a drive.
Retarded analogy. Going out of your way to drink excessively out of spite is not reasonably comparable to refusing to make changes in your life which were not previously problematic. I lived my entire life without wearing a mask in public. Continuing to live in this way is not comparable to choosing to be intoxicated and operate heavy machinery. You dullard!

>>16146948
they can't answer you because they're not in control of their own thought process, they're just repeating whatever seems popular

>>16146948
you mean like Asians do?

>>16146948
I'm fine with this. Been saying this mask thing is an excellent excuse to publically conceal your identity. With a hood and a phone with a removable battery it's the closest to untraceability you can get in modern times.

>>16146996
Be more specific. Which asians? Japanese? I have read that some populations in parts of China wear masks because the polluted air. This is a separate issue, as the mask policy in western countries is to stop the wearer from spreading disease, whereas the chinese in areas of polluted air are wearing a mask to protect themselves.

>>16146948
Your strawman game is really strong, congrats.

>>16147018
exactly. in nyc is used to be illegal to wear a mask to a protest, i was at an anti-war march during the bush days and some guy in luche libre masks got snatched by nypd, but since it wasn't an election year the nytimes didnt' do a story about, anyways, today we've been given an excuse to evade facial rec tech whats not to like

>>16146948
We should be. China, Japan, Korea, and Taiwan do this all the time. A lot of people on the Right have actually been advocating for this for awhile, and up until now it'd just get shut down by you Lefties saying it'd be racist or whatever to do that.

>>16147114
>We should be.
We will be. This isn't going to go away, it's just going to fade out. That's how every pandemic happens. We never had an official "end" to the Spanish Flu, after all.

It's just Libtards having their heads in the sand as usual.

>>16147052
Two questions:
Is it true that wearing a cloth face covering in public is an effective means of preventing the spread of disease?
Is it true that the "costs" (slight discomfort, need to keep a supply of clean face coverings or wash them regularly, etc) of wearing a cloth face covering in public are small enough to be considered trivial or negligible, that is, effectively zero?
If the answer to both these questions is "yes", what then would be the reason that the public should generally return to the habit of not wearing cloth face coverings in public at any point in the future?

If the answer to either of these questions is "no", than why should we wear masks in public at all? If the masks are effective, but "costly" to wear, how can we know when it is appropriate to return to previous habits of not wearing them?

>>16144164
The scientism is the belief that science will tell us whether or not the state should be able to choose what healthcare individuals accept or reject. Do you guys not understand this?

>>1614379
>vaccination question
The only vaccination question is why do dumb people oppose vaccines for stupid reasons?

>>16143791
During the quarantine, to counter the psy-op on an individual level, i have read "Bechamp vs Pasteur" Very good, and it will red pill on the potential scam that the germ theory is, and the indubitable scam that vaccines are. The last chapters, with the statistics and graphs, are edifying.
Recently, i stumbled upon "What Really Makes You Ill?: Why Everything You Thought You Knew About Disease Is Wrong."

>>16145285
The entire point you raise is obviated by the use of clinical trials in vaccine development. Smallpox is a lot worse than some completely unquantified and unsubstantiated suggestion that vaccines may or may not give some amount (1%? .01%? .0001%?) of people an adverse reaction.

>>16144379
This. Nobody talks about the etheric body. Whatever. Clown world based upon material possession.

>>16147196

(...) Edit

>>16143802
What kind of tiger will you hunt, my Oriental gentleman?

>>16147151
Yet using the scientific method, we know COVID is a dangerous virus and we're better off getting a vaccine and using a mask and social distancing. Not complying is just teenage rebellion except on a societal scale.

>inb4 but I don't know a single person who has suffered from COVID
If this makes you want to risk other people's health, then you're just a typical Republican "I don't care bout this issue, since it doesn't affect me"

>inb4 mannequins
two things can be right at the same time. maybe its'a deadly virus that is also being exaggerated about. Now wear a mask and protect your grandma. You don't hate her, do you?

>>16144470
>each year you'd get a Covid shot like you do a Flu shot

about that...

Pay close attention to the language used to implement population control. "Herd immunity" was too direct, so they are developing other linguistic tools to refer to the human cattle of democratic countries
this is about power, not some gay virus

>>16147838
*coughs*

>>16147848
I'm naturally immune to cuck viruses because I smoke loose leaf

>>16147141
>If the answer to both these questions is "yes", what then would be the reason that the public should generally return to the habit of not wearing cloth face coverings in public at any point in the future?
This is the case and has been the case for... Well, ever. We SHOULD be wearing simple face masks in large cities.

>>16147817
Metaphorically speaking. You wouldn't be able to just get vaccinated once as an infant, you'd need to be vaccinated multiple times throughout your life.

>>16147838
Yes. The Elite do not want people getting sick, as if that happens then everyone dies and they lose power. Getting a lung disease to own the Jews is dumb. Why not just be healthy AND own the Jews?

>>16143864
t. doesn't understand epistemology.

>>16147862
>loose leaf
is this a euphemism for cock?

>>16147948
No. I smoke tobacco, you smoke bill gates’ dick

>>16145159
>Make the cake bigot

>Take the needle schizo

>No no, you can't fire this man who started to show up to work in a dress and scares the customers

God fucking dammit man. These communists are starting to get on my nerves

>>16147803
Nice dodge, thats completely missing the point of whether or not it should be STATE MANDATED. I dont think morbidly obese people should stuff their faces with ice cream, not knowing how to feed yourself and be healthy is childish and theyd be better off eating better. Should the state put everyone on draconian restrictive diets knowing that science tells us not eating sugar will improve total happiness in the long run? Obviously not

>>16148124
>Should the state put everyone on draconian restrictive diets knowing that science tells us not eating sugar will improve total happiness in the long run?
Yes.

>>16148223
well ok then, we got a utilitarian scientism bootlicker here, theres no saving you now anon

We should onyl give the vaccine to black people

>>16143791
would you like truth or validation?

>>16145158
They don't, they don't want most of man to accept the mark and be damned. It would be preferable that man turn away from it and go to God in embracing death.

>>16147803
>Yet using the scientific method, we know COVID is a dangerous virus and we're better off getting a vaccine and using a mask and social distancing
No, someone you believe to be in a position of authority and which you have faith in told you to believe a certain idea and you do because you are compliant and unthinking. There is a pure confidence game you have played into without any critical examination. You've never used the scientific method in your life.

>>16148278
for reparations

>>16148124
>Should the state put everyone on draconian restrictive diets knowing that science tells us not eating sugar will improve total happiness in the long run?
Yes but no for vaccines

>>16144379
If I live a pure mental life will I avoid illness?

>>16148443
it's only fair, it would actually be systemic white supremacy not to give all black people the vaccine first

>>16148439
Just ignore the paid shills. They are everywhere.

>>16146982
I wasn't answering him because I was eating dinner and then playing Zoo Tycoon. I have a life outside of shitposting on /lit/
>>16146948
I mean, we should. Annualized, the flu kills way more people than COVID and spreads the same way. If the passage of laws at the federal level was about justice and the prosperity of society, or the way we conducted ourselves as an American culture was truly about the supremacy of the American Will and our many peoples working together, such basic measures as wearing masks most places would be normal. But our nation is a place where advocating for children to mutilate their genitalia into the shape of the opposite sexes is a more "culturally relevant" issue than embodying the ideals of a just and responsible society.

Everyone should be wearing masks all the time to prevent the spread of disease. A responsible citizen should also have a CBRN-ready mask at home. And really should also have some kind of AR-15 clone or handgun, and at least a few hundred rounds.

But we live in a decadent, industrial culture where life is more about comfort than about the perpetuation of good and the supremacy of the nation as a whole.

>>16147018
It's nonsensical to think that you can be identified by your full face, but can't be identified by clothes/body parameters/gait/head parts outside mask + analysis of many cameras.
To add, covidists are currently pushing for total "contact tracing". If are you planing to save even a pinch of privacy in such a world, then you incredibly optimistic.

>>16148533
We actually should partition the population in two groups: covid-fearers and covid-ignorers. First should go into permanent lockdown and second should proceed to live as usual.

>>16148439
This is incredibly true. Thanks for the formulation.

/pol/ got absolutely bodied in this thread, holy shit

>>16149357
>got absolutely bodied
>holy shit

>>16148533
>I mean, we should. Annualized, the flu kills way more people than COVID and spreads the same way. If the passage of laws at the federal level was about justice and the prosperity of society, or the way we conducted ourselves as an American culture was truly about the supremacy of the American Will and our many peoples working together, such basic measures as wearing masks most places would be normal.
It depends on whether you care more about safety or freedom. There isn't really a correct answer

>>16149362
4 and your mother gets COVID and dies by 2021

>>16145734
>An effective vaccine is beyond possible
So, impossible?

>>16149249
That’s generally what we are doing as is. The educated class gets to work from home permanently while laborers deliver our groceries and do our remodeling for cheap.

>>16148105
Not even close, you weak faggot. If you can’t defend your property, that shit isn’t yours to being with. If the entire town wants you out, you either are man enough to deal with it or a bitch and leave.
>bake the cake
Imagine living surrounded by faggots lmao couldn’t be me

>>16144318
I always wanted to say I was part of a king's bloodline

>>16149363
I don't consider it about safety vs. freedom so much as it is about trust vs. no trust. A society runs best when everyone trusts everyone else and can focus on their own affairs. If you make freedom too much of a priority, so that no one tells anyone how to do anything, there's a risk that the society is taken apart from the inside out by people who exploit such a lack of structure to install their own power over you. But if you make safety too much of a priority, no one can do anything because they're constantly hampered by needless interference.

Guns don't infringe on trust. How well-armed I am shouldn't ever make you think I'm not trustworthy, except in the sense that you might think I don't trust you because I choose to be especially armed without explanation in some case. But I think not-wearing particle masks does undermine trust, because now interacting with someone has the unknown that they could be sick and not know it, and therefore spread it to me. And so one can only trust someone not wearing a mask if they're too naive to appreciate the risk of transmission, or know that person intimately enough to be willing to accept the risk in exchange for more personal contact.

That's a long way of saying you should wear a mask because if you trust your store clerk to pay enough attention to not get you sick, you're an idiot. Everyone wearing masks eliminates that concern. But there's as far as I know no risk from asymptomatic spread of diseases through things like touch, so it's a step too far to say everyone wearing gloves is part of trust. That's just safety overreach, and it infringes trust because it shows that decisions are being made with only emotion, and not reason.

>>16149368

>>16149363
>safety or freedom.
You can't enjoy freedom if you're dead.

>>16145734
Judging by the fact that there are no effective vaccines against previous coronas, it isn't actually possible.

>>16149382
COVID is going to be a return to feudalism. Once again, landed aristocrats will work principally from their home estates, going out only to meet with other aristocrats or for the sake of their image. While the serfs toil in the hot sun.

>>16149414
That's why you should avoid the vaccine.

>>16149411
I think trust is a different axis, there is an intractable tradeoff between freedom and safety, this even applies to what you decide to do yourself when it only really affects you.

I can imagine slavery-type situations in which we are much safer than we are today because of how regulated everything would be.

>>16149411
Replace "masks" with "hazmat suits", and your post will become even better.

>>16149422
True feudals (the top 0.001% of population) always had that choice. For the majority of population it would be choice between prison and going out in chains.

>>16143797
There are plenty of medical journals outlining how horribly ineffective disposable masks are in times of influenza and pandemics, as observed over a decade in Asian countries
YET WE STILL HAVE PEOPLE SAYING YOU ARE LITERALLY HITLER IF YOU DONT WEAR A MASK

>>16147803
>If this makes you want to risk other people's health
It does not, because these people don't exit their home and wear a respirator. If they don't, then it's on them.

>>16149433
The limitation of social expectations to reasonable concerns is part of the establishment of societal trust. Your retarded analogizing is irrelevant, it still falls into the rejected categories. If a society decides that every conceivable threat, even those that are unknown and extraordinarily minor, must be countered with the greatest possible force regardless of other factors, trust is thoroughly undermined. All categories which could previously be evaluated as reasonably safe from interference are now up for grabs.

Your argument is essentially that I'm saying "Trust only exists when ALL threats are neutralized". No. That is not my argument. My argument is that trust can only exist, but is not solely, when the bulk of social interactions are constructed such that a negative outcome is due to direct decision-making on the part of one or the other group. To use the gun example again, banning all guns is bad because guns encourage trust, but people walking around spewing viral particulate all over each other is like flashing someone with the barrel while your finger is in the trigger guard. It's a reasonable safety precaution. Do you also think that it's ridiculous to wear a seat belt, or lock your front door?

>>16149430
I don't think that trust is orthogonal, so much as it is situational. It has overlap with both categories in different areas. Certainly X trust does not translate into some f(X) safety and visa versa, but conditionally you might say if there is some safety/freedom ratio X in situation A, and ratio Y in situation B, trust is high, and those ratios could be very high or very low or both.

>>16149460
>There are plenty of medical journals
Show me. I've seen like one fucking CNN article on this and even it could only conclude "Yeah a lot of the improv masks are useless".

>>16149489
>The limitation of social expectations to reasonable concerns is part of the establishment of societal trust.
Yes, that's why you should protest masks and lockdowns - to preserve trust.
>Your retarded analogizing is irrelevant,
Anon, it's great that you can finally understand that your ideas are retarded at their core.
>If a society decides that every conceivable threat, even those that are unknown and extraordinarily minor, must be countered with the greatest possible force regardless of other factors, trust is thoroughly undermined.
Yes. That's why using the greatest possible force against the seasonal cold greatly undermined the truth in state and that's why the state should be countered on that.
>Your argument is essentially that I'm saying "Trust only exists when ALL threats are neutralized".
Of course not. That's why wearing masks is irrelevant (and actually harmful) for the trust.
>My argument is that trust can only exist, but is not solely, when the bulk of social interactions are constructed such that a negative outcome is due to direct decision-making on the part of one or the other group.
Agreed. So if you don't want to get sick, or endanger the others, stay the fuck home. And if you consider that risk reasonable, your argument is destroyed.
>To use the gun example again, banning all guns is bad because guns encourage trust, but people walking around spewing viral particulate all over each other is like flashing someone with the barrel while your finger is in the trigger guard.
A person who equates having a face with having a gun fully destroys all the trust and should be countered (maybe using a gun).
>Do you also think that it's ridiculous to wear a seat belt, or lock your front door?
A wonderful example: I'll probably lock my door, but if government will try to force me to lock it, it will vastly overstep the boundaries.

>>16149497
>pls spoonfeed me mommy
Okay son,
https://www.ecdc.europa.eu/sites/default/files/media/en/publications/Publications/0906_TER_Public_Health_Measures_for_Influenza_Pandemics.pdf

>wearing a facecuck

I had to spend half a day in a course to get a p3 mask fitted and taught how to use it properly
This was for working around silica dust, which is a larger particle than covid
A mask is ONE HUNDRED AND TWENTY PERCENT unless if it isn't a clean tight fit. DISPOSABLE SURGICAL MASKS ARE USELESS, FACIAL HAIR MAKES ANY SEAL INEFFECTIVE. MASKS ARE TO BE WORN ONCE THEN REPLACED.

this was to prevent anyone suing the state government from silica dust damage to lungs
now it is the law to wear something that is 100% fucking useless. whereas it was work health and safety regulations to wear a new $20 mask twice a day...

>>16144391

>>16143791
damn humans are stupid.

DEATH IS BAD AND EVIL!

>>16146233
No, I'm certainly taking it in account. Befriend me enough, and maybe I'll do things I dislike to please you. Spite me enough and maybe I'll do things I dislike to spite you back. It makes perfect sense and that's how humans operate. Not that is related to the case at all, since wearing a mask has more negatives than benefits even if no one forces you to do it.

>>16149529
>If the government will try to force me to lock it
Well then the state would be justified in firing a fucking TOW missile into your bedroom since you've constructed your entire decision making apparatus on "I'm a BIG BOY and NO ONE IS GOING TO TELL ME WHAT TO DO". If your beautiful idyllic American dream of a state that refuses interference is really sustainable and realistic, why did it last less than a hundred fucking years before it lapsed into imperialistic rebellion-stomping like every other country on Earth?

I'm done with this ridiculous bullshit.
I'd seethe again about your treating me like I'm some leftist whelp whining about scary COVID, but you really don't seem to grasp that I'm talking about the larger issue of how society and culture itself is constructed and are too caught up on intellectually masturbating yourself over your superiority to the Bidenites. I'm not entirely sure you're even capable of conceiving that there are larger issues than winning the next election and proving that your party opposition is wrong on some transient issue.
I genuinely wish you and the rest of the libertarians the best. I hope your idyllic paradise of a quasi-anarchic state that preserves your freedom is more than just idle fantasy, because certainly I would love to live there. But I think you're too caught up in emotional reasoning. You've justified this to yourself as "The commies are worse", which is true, but the fact that the ocean has deeper pits than the one you're in does not put you on the fucking shoreline. In fact it astonishes me that the extent of your arguments here really come down to not "You're wrong because X reason" but "Yeah lol, that's stupid". It's frustrating denialism. These problems are not going to go away. Do you think in 20 years when this happens again you're going to have converted the entire nation to your "Live free without interference" methodology? You and the people who agree with you need to come up with a real solution that is not just dismissing the problem. If you keep telling the scared idiots that their fears aren't real they aren't going to be comforted. These aren't children who believe in monsters, they're adults who see scary news casts and panic. God forbid, what happens when the next disease posts closer to SARS numbers in the US? Are you still going to dismiss this as idle fears? Are you still going to rage that you're being told to wear masks? Regardless of truth, these things are simply not strategies for victory

Learn your fucking lesson or your gains in 2016 will lose steam and we're going to be sitting in a socialist country in 20 years if the two of us are even still around.

>>16149586
>death
>evil

>>16149596
>"I'm a BIG BOY and NO ONE IS GOING TO TELL ME WHAT TO DO".
Anon, I don't know what sort of radical authoritarian dystopia you're from, but literally the entire founding texts and documents of the United States were to limit the powers of government beyond what was absolutely necessary.
If you're willing to have your rights trampled over something as irrelevant as "wearing a mask", then the country is doomed by a far more serious threat than the commie cough.
That doesn't mean don't wear a mask. But if you're arresting people for not wearing one, or breaking up private family gatherings because you're a mentally unhinged control freak, then covid is a completely irrelevant issue compared to that.

>>16149580
>paying for covid testing
Really?

>>16144441
>which Jews objected to as they are God's Chosen People
Far from that

>/lit/ is so mindlessly contrarian that they won't just wear the fucking masks

This board is truly a sad state of affairs.

>>16149680
I do wear a mask, though.
The only reason I wouldn't wear one is in protest if my state made it mandatory. Seeing as how they're not even effective, it's just authoritarian politicians jacking themselves off to what they can force people to do against their will. It would be like a statewide mandate on requiring everyone to wear "make america great again" caps.

>>16149596
>Well then the state would be justified in firing a fucking TOW missile into your bedroom since you've constructed your entire decision making apparatus on "I'm a BIG BOY and NO ONE IS GOING TO TELL ME WHAT TO DO".
After the shitshow of the previous half-year randomly firing TOWs into bedrooms does not sound to be out of question.
>If your beautiful idyllic American dream of a state that refuses interference is really sustainable and realistic, why did it last less than a hundred fucking years before it lapsed into imperialistic rebellion-stomping like every other country on Earth?
My points are not America-specific at all. You should stop being so americentrist.
>I'm done with this ridiculous bullshit.
I'll still reward your effort and will answer every point you make.
>I'd seethe again about your treating me like I'm some leftist whelp whining about scary COVID, but you really don't seem to grasp that I'm talking about the larger issue of how society and culture itself is constructed and are too caught up on intellectually masturbating yourself over your superiority to the Bidenites.
I hate all lockdown and mask proponents, no matter if they are bidenities, trumpists, commies, nazis and so on.
>I'm not entirely sure you're even capable of conceiving that there are larger issues than winning the next election and proving that your party opposition is wrong on some transient issue.
Covid shitshow is worse than every other issue, election or not.

>>16149596
>I genuinely wish you and the rest of the libertarians the best.
I'm not exactly a libertarian, but thanks!
>I hope your idyllic paradise of a quasi-anarchic state that preserves your freedom is more than just idle fantasy, because certainly I would love to live there.
Compared to the covid-fighting world it will certainly be a paradise.
>But I think you're too caught up in emotional reasoning.
No, my reasoning is perfectly logical and reasonable.
> You've justified this to yourself as "The commies are worse", which is true, but the fact that the ocean has deeper pits than the one you're in does not put you on the fucking shoreline.
Commies may be bad in general, but today's question is the covid-fighting menace.
>In fact it astonishes me that the extent of your arguments here really come down to not "You're wrong because X reason" but "Yeah lol, that's stupid".
No, I actually show why your reasons are bad and why other reasons are good. The fact that what you are telling is stupid is just the bonus.
>Do you think in 20 years when this happens again you're going to have converted the entire nation to your "Live free without interference" methodology?
No, but hopefully I will defeat or spite the covidists.
>You and the people who agree with you need to come up with a real solution that is not just dismissing the problem.
Yes, this solution is stopping all the malignancy of the last half-year.
>These aren't children who believe in monsters, they're adults who see scary news casts and panic.
Then the journalists are at fault.
>If you keep telling the scared idiots that their fears aren't real they aren't going to be comforted.
I'm OK if they are scared. I'm OK if they are taking precautions. I'm not OK with them dictating me nonsense.
>God forbid, what happens when the next disease posts closer to SARS numbers in the US?
If the reason will win, the same thing we did in 2019 and before. If covidists will win, you will get permanent lockdown with hazmat suits.
>Are you still going to dismiss this as idle fears?
They are not "idle fears", they are malignant fears.
> Are you still going to rage that you're being told to wear masks?
Yes, and I will also try to sabotage the mask-wearing whenever I can.
> Regardless of truth, these things are simply not strategies for victory
Of course much more is needed against the covidists who went seriously crazy.
>Learn your fucking lesson or your gains in 2016 will lose steam and we're going to be sitting in a socialist country in 20 years if the two of us are even still around.
I don't think that "if you fight your enemies, they win" is a good strategy, but you are free to adopt it!

>>16149680
>stay THE FUCK home
>wear THE FUCKING masks
What does these words convey in your preaching? Some rude power forcing you to do these things? Or maybe they are cosplaying some drinking buddy who gives you wise drinking buddy advices? They sound incredibly sleazy in every of these cases.

>>16149649
It's like eating shit for free except you are also paying for it.

>>16149545
are you mad because you feel like you're being politically silenced

>>16149722
Nice tirade. Unfortunately it has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that you and everybody else would be better off if you just wore the fucking masks.

>>16149869
No, I'd better not (both because it's comfier/healthier and because it spites evil people).

>>16148124
YES.
Fatties go to health camps
Retards who refuse to be vaccinated will go to reeducation camps where they are taught immunology
Lolbertarians like you will be sent to Iceland to live in their cool mansion while reading comfy lolbertarian books while they are no danger to society. Also it's kinda an autonomous zone so if you want to make lolbertarian CHAZ, then go for it.

>>16149545
?

>>16143802
>spouting a vocab term from a 3rd grade social studies book to justify coercion

>>16144470
>The vaccine will be fine and perfectly safe, as all vaccines are.
>>16143791
if vaccines were always safe corporate cronies and politicians wouldn't have passed 42 U.S. Code §300aa–22.Standards of responsibility which gives immunity for harming people with vaccines

>>16144994
>should be mandatory
come get me, glownigger

>>16145160
>It also forced all people, great and small, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on their right hands or on their foreheads
Liz Bruenig isn’t even a politician, and there is no way Americans of all people are going to pass a law that requires all people take vaccination when they don’t even have healthcare
>to receive a mark on their right hands or on their foreheads
You can’t take a vaccine to the forehead, and it's not technically on on your hand either, but upper arm.
>so that they could not buy or sell unless they had the mark
Even if vaccines become mandatory, there's no way businesses will know if you managed to evade getting it.

Yeah, anon there is literally no similarity at all.

>>16143791
I can’t believe there are anti-vaccers on /lit/. This was supposed to be the last smart board on 4chan

>>16150035
>Even if vaccines become mandatory, there's no way businesses will know if you managed to evade getting it
Immunity passports combined with tracing apps will do that. "you are describing the dystopic conspiracy" would have worked in 2019.

>>16150048
Stay the fuck home, and you will get no covid.

>>16150059
This is true. I don’t really see how that's relevant to what I posted though

>>16150055
Look, it's a moot issue anyway, because there's no way Trump and a Republican majority in the senate will let that pass. Honestly, I don’t really want the vaccine to be mandatory either, but I’m not afraid of conspiracy and the Beast of Revelations if it is.

>>16150055
Because corporations never loophole out of government regulations. The conspiracy is against the left, anon. Corporations and religious fundamentalism are at the top of the hierarchy, you have nothing to worry about.

>>16146779
Holy fuck dude, my sides, how can you be so retarded? Covid-19 isn't influenza.

>>16150096
Covid is the flu with SARS loci grafted on

>>16143864
Based. I'm still voting Trump too.