/lit/ - Literature

Because he knows he’s not getting an eternal life, and his life is the only existence he’ll ever have and doesn’t want to waste it?

>>16472202
*gambles and fucks hookers his whole life*

>ayyy fucking atheists!!!

>>16472226
Yes

>>16472213
Go back

>>16472202
The utter lack of ability for men like this to imagine for a second not being religious is both sad and hilarious. Because we were never Christians, and our enjoyment of this life has fuck-all to do with some anticipation of another existence. Christians killing themselves is logical (in the sects where suicide doesn't ban you from heaven) but why would an atheist kill themselves? You're the ones who expect something better after death and are eternally dissatisfied with this amazing existence, not us.
>>16472213
That's it in a nutshell.

>>16472226
Okay nerd, you wouldn't get it, it's a Christian thing.

hope the christianity trend on /lit/ ends soon

Imagine being pathetic enough to base your whole life, right down to the decision of whether it’s worth living, on ancient Jewish fairy tales

>>16472525

>this amazing existence

>>16472649
nothing says soijack like life-affirmation

All the atheists on this board are seething because Dosto has prodded into their souls. They know he’s right.

>>16472213
I'm guessing he didn't like life itself all that much, because if there is no god or soul what's the point of continuing to deal with the shit life continues to dish out, life at the time was dire, still is I guess.

>>16472593
He also wrote a few books. Don't know if you've heard of them though.

>>16472202
"To have committed every crime but that of being a father" -Emil Cioran.

>>16472593
And on what do you base yours?

>>16472202
>Christcucks literally need God otherwise they would kill themselves
How was Nietzsche so right? Literally the most life-denying religion there is

>>16472525
>You're the ones who expect something better after death and are eternally dissatisfied with this amazing existence
Sheltered first world hands wrote this

>"For me Christianity has not yet arrived, and I am like the early Christians, awaiting Christ's return."

>>16472898
The simple ethic of the Hippocratic oath. First, do no evil.

>>16472902
It is not a question of strength, and weakness, but truth and falsity; and if a man knows something is false he cannot believe it, only a weak man would give in to falsity.

t. Carlyle

"Christians" here are salty because they'll never have that complete earnest religiosity of premodernity and will always second guess themselves in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary. You might be slightly mentally healthier but living any lie's not worth it if you care about the damn truth.

>>16472983
explain. is "giving into falsity" atheism or theism? Never read Carlyle

>>16472905
t. person on 4channel

>>16472945
>It requires a new physician to swear upon a number of healing gods that he will uphold a number of professional ethical standards.
>I swear by Apollo Healer, by Asclepius, by Hygieia, by Panacea, and by all the gods and goddesses, making them my witnesses, that I will carry out, according to my ability and judgment, this oath and this indenture.

>>16472202
Is there a good book that deals as neutral as possible with the theological debate? The common philosophical arguments etc

>>16473186
Wow, you can read Wikipedia, good job

>>16473138
Carlyle's not a systematic thinker, but in this context it would be atheism. As in, the dialectic is not that of weak and strong, "Christians are weak and dependent", but of truth and falsity. Though Carlyle is not psychologically ignorant, he merely incorperates such problems into what he says, and as always with Carlyle you cannot separate what is said with his saying of it.

>>16472525
Atheists are less happy, have less kids, and kill themselves more often on average.
It’s a kind of meme that harms the host.

>>16472879
Being a father is the best thing one can do.

>>16473042
The “truth” is less significant than survival and enjoyment. The future is Islamic.

>>16472226
He never fucked prostitutes, you're pulling that out of your arse. He wrote about whores because publishers were looking for the madonna-whore complex as well as the 'saintly prostitute' at the time.

>>16473261
That has no bearing on whether something is true. Boltzmann also killed himself, does that make his theories wrong?

>>16473228
But is he saying that Christianity is a belief in truth and atheism is a belief in the false? Because it can (much more easily) be argued the opposite. Unless the argument is that atheism is a belief in the falseness of God, which stupidly assumes that theism is the default, and that being atheist is an active state of not believing.

>>16473261
Beyond the sterile utilitarian religiosity of the modern: he knows very well deep down it's a giant cope but indulges in it anyway for the promise of a happiness boost.

>>16473261
Atheists are also more educated and commit less crime

>>16473552

>>16472202
>"I don’t understand"
well, he got that right.
>>16472525
Dosto also said if someone proved the truth was outside of Christ, he would stick with Christ. Religious people are so afraid of losing their comforting delusions that they cling to them even if the falsehood of those beliefs are revealed.
>>16472584
hopefully
>>16472810
this sounds like a JBP quote
>>16472983
see Dosto quote about truth

>>16472525
>our enjoyment of this life has fuck-all to do with some anticipation of another existence
Precisely so, Christians can't eat cakes and enjoy them unless they pray, you got it exactly right!
For a second one may entertain the idea that Christians have all the same means of joy that atheists do, plus more. For a second one may even speculate that the link between atheism and suicide is not a man's ignorance, but insight into the meaning of 'theism' and its opposition. But we wouldn't wanna be crazy.

>>16472584
>trend
It's been like this for years, but the tides are turning again.

>>16473552
Yeah, the two literal world wars sure showed us, religious folks, how wise and peaceful secular mindsets are.

>>16472202
>” It is only when man has transcended the possibility of his own death that harmony of the social world may be achieved, that the civil conflict at the heart of society may be resolved. Immortality is the means to this utopia, rather than its end, and may only be achieved in and through the perfection of self-understanding. Or: immortality comes about when the civil war of the self has finally ceased.”
>” There will be no end to war until something fundamental in man is altered; but to alter something fundamental in man, there is only endless war. And I mean by this: death is the road to a new life; one must end a certain power, a certain worldview, a certain version of the self before a new one may arise. Against the unavoidability of violence, the problem becomes: how to kill softly and die with a whisper.”
>” Only when I have truly come to know myself, only when I have truly come to live “well”—only then will I have transcended myself, only then will I have escaped the inevitability of death.”

Based secularist.

>>16473614
You mean like the Nazi regime which was explicitly endorsed by the church and whose soldiers took a vow by God to the fuhrer and had "Gott Mit Uns" on their belt buckles?

>>16473579
>see Dosto quote about truth
Which?

>>16473353
Nigger he's not saying "one side right, other side wrong", he's psychologically analysing and seeing that life does not merely depend on such a reductive conception of strength, if a man sees what he knows to be true, he can do nothing other than but fight for and believe it. And Faith, though open to an array of misinterpretations in the modern, unbelieving era, is the belief in such a thing. Unshaking strength. But now I am sidetracking from the wholeness of the statement into one particular understanding of it.

>>16473673
“If someone proved to me that Christ is outside the truth and that in reality the truth were outside of Christ, then I should prefer to remain with Christ rather than with the truth.”

>>16473691
Alright, what does it prove?

>>16473696
>"only a weak man would give in to falsity"
Dosto explicitly said if proven false he would still stick with Christ. He basically said the quiet part out loud which all Christians implicitly believe, which is why so many consider Christianity a "slave" mindset. It represents a complete deference to an ideology over, and in the face of, the actual truth of reality. It's just sad, really.

>>16473723
huh?

>>16473732
What did you not understand?

>>16473658
It's called politics. Same reason Hitler called his party the National *Socialist* party, because he wanted to appeal to the workers. In his journals Hitler generally held Christianity in disdain because it told you to love your enemy, never kill, etc.

>Hitler believed that Japanese religious beliefs or Islam would have been a more suitable religion for Germans than Christianity, with its "meekness and flabbiness".[377]

>Historian John S. Conway states that Hitler was fundamentally opposed to the Christian churches.[378] According to Bullock, Hitler did not believe in God, was anticlerical, and held Christian ethics in contempt because they contravened his preferred view of "survival of the fittest".[379] He favoured aspects of Protestantism that suited his own views, and adopted some elements of the Catholic Church's hierarchical organisation, liturgy, and phraseology.[380]

>Hitler viewed the church as an important politically conservative influence on society,[381] and he adopted a strategic relationship with it that "suited his immediate political purposes".[378] In public, Hitler often praised Christian heritage and German Christian culture, though professing a belief in an "Aryan Jesus" who fought against the Jews.[382] Any pro-Christian public rhetoric contradicted his private statements, which described Christianity as "absurdity"[383] and nonsense founded on lies.[384]

Of course, there have been far more atheistic mass murderers in the 20th century: Mao, Stalin, Lenin, Pol Pot, Castro, Che, and so on.

>>16473342
>That has no bearing on whether something is true

It doesn’t matter whether or not it’s true. It only matters if the meme actually provides a survival benefit to its host.

>>16472202
Tell-tale sign of schizophrenia. Sad.

>>16473481
Who cares if it’s a “cope”?
Being psychologically healthy is better than the opposite. Atheism is not a “sharp” meme. It’s a dull one.

>>16473552
Educated people are inferior people because they have less kids. At least “educated” in the sense of adopting the memes promulgated by globalist education systems. Imams are “educated” but fertile.

>>16473630
War is good, and desirable.

>>16473723
>It represents a complete deference to an ideology over, and in the face of, the actual truth of reality. It's just sad, really.

You can call it “sad” all day long but that won’t stop you being crowded out and suppressed into nonexistence by Muslims.

>>16473723
Not at all, you insult what is really Christianity. It is impossible to imagine a world wherein the truth does not reign as it always had. Nevertheless that statement of Dosto's goes far more complex than merely a static structural conception of individual belief in the literal.

>>16473859
What are you getting at? The "truth reigning" is independent of your belief, and as such a belief that you held to be true, may have been false all along. Also, static structural conception of individual belief in the literal? Is this some attempt to redefine what "truth" means to fit a preexisting agenda rooted in psychological projection? Speak plainly.

>>16473927
Look at it this way, civilisation has reached its peak under Christendom and religion in general, and so has the individual.

>>16473943
Ah, a utilitarian appeal. However, civilization made it's largest leaps once individual liberty became more important than religion. The best nations in the world have Godless constitutions and secular governments, in fact, the degree of separation between the church and state is a good predictor of whether the country is better off or not.

One more thing, since you mentioned religion in general, the wide deviation in religious belief shows that the truth of the belief is irrelevant to the utility value of it. Hinduism, Shintoism, Buddhism and Christianity are mutually exclusive, yet they all convey a certain social utility to the populations that believe in them. This is likely due to the psychological circumstances of our species and the social dynamics of group living and working and definitely not a result of having faith in a correct set of beliefs.

>>16474030
>civilization made it's largest leaps once individual liberty became more important than religion
Lmao, what are you at stage 1 classic liberal? You can say that freedom from religious dogma is absolutely necessary, but civilisation freedom from religion itself, in this liberal context means little else than the rejection of religion in civilisation.

See, Heidegger's Origin of the Work of Art:

>"A building, a Greek temple ... stands there in the middle of the rock-cleft valley. The building ecloses the figure of a god, and this concealment lets it stand out into the holy precinct through the open portico. By means of the temple, the god is present in the temple. This presence of the god is in itself the extension and delimitation of the precinct as a holy precicnt. The temple and its precinct, however, do not fade away into the indefinite. It is the temple work that first fits together and at the same time gathers around itself the unity of those paths and relations in which birth, death, disaster and blessing, victory and disgrace, endurance and decline aquire the shape of destiny for human being. The all-governing expanse of this open relational context is the world of this historical people. Only from and in this expanse does the people (Volk) first return to itself for the fulfilment of its vocation. ... The temple in its standing there, first gives to things their look and to men their outlook on themselves."

>>16473261
Most atheists are nihilists spawned by Christianity

>>16473814
I don't know what a sharp/dull meme is, but your recourse to an idea Dawkins made up is also quite funny. You're so thoroughly infused with desacralized modernity you can't help but utilize the thoughts of your spiritual worst enemies. Faith just ain't what it used to be.

>>16474140
Maybe. I stopped being Christian as a teenager and went through an edgy atheist phase, but then converted to Islam in my 20s to meet my gnawing spiritual needs, and also partially because I saw the demographic writing on the wall.

>>16474184
>I don't know what a sharp/dull meme is

https://www.destinypedia.com/The_Sword_Logic

> You're so thoroughly infused with desacralized modernity you can't help but utilize the thoughts of your spiritual worst enemies. Faith just ain't what it used to be.

I utilize truth, and Darwinism is a truth. How can one see the demographic changes ongoing in Europe and conclude “Ah yes, secularism is a sustainable and healthy cultural meme.”?

>>16472202
because your meaning is something you can find yourself, god doesn't always have to be involved in every form of joy.

>>16472905
Are you admitting that religion is simply a cope to help you through unfortunate circumstances?

>>16473193
There is no debate. There are "first-mover" arguments in favor of "God", but they only get you to a most likely impersonal indifferent vague "first force/being", and even those are sketchy as we know that "causality" is not as simple as we make it out to be.

There is no intellectual or logical basis for the popular religions. If you want to be religious, do it because the traditions and community help give meaning to our life that you otherwise lack.

>>16472213
>implying atheism implies eternal oblivion

>>16472202
Just finish KB anon. It’s been like 2 weeks

>>16472202
there is no such thing as an atheist. modern mans god is PRODUCTS.

>When I take a full view and circle of myself, without this reasonable moderator and equal piece of justice, death, I do conceive myself the miserablest person extant. Were there not another life that I hope for, all the vanities of this world should not entreat a moment’s breath for me; could the devil work my belief to imagine I could never die, I would not outlive that very thought; I have so abject a conceit of this common way of existence, this retaining to the sun and elements, I cannot think this is to be a man, or to live according to the dignity of humanity. In expectation of a better, I can with patience embrace this life, yet in my best meditations do often desire death. I honour any man that contemns it, p. 76nor can I highly love any that is afraid of it: this makes me naturally love a soldier, and honour those tattered and contemptible regiments that will die at the command of a sergeant. For a pagan there may be some motives to be in love with life; but for a Christian to be amazed at death, I see not how he can escape this dilemma, that he is too sensible of this life or hopeless of the life to come.

>>16472213
Don't worry, if you don't understand now you still have time left in which to suffer.

>>16474428
There is zero evidence atheism or materialism are true, and evidence materialism is untrue.

>>16474448
anon, are you trying to be retarded?

You ever read the baddest philosopher in the wild west, John Wittgreenstein?
>Just as the Bradys were getting locked in jail, Lara randomly asked me, “Have you ever gotten a blowjob?”
>“Um, that’s a bit of a duck rabbit,” I said.
>“Duck rabbit?”
>“Like, you know, you can't tell which it is.”
>“Which it is?”
>“Like, I must distinguish between the 'continuous seeing' of an aspect and the 'dawning' of an aspect.. The picture might have been shewn me, and I never have seen anything but a rabbit in it, what made you think of that?”
>“I’ve just never geeven one,” she answered, her little voice dripping with seductiveness. It was so brazen. I thought I would explode. I never thought. I mean, from Bertrand, hearing that stuff was one thing. But to hear her sweet little Romanian voice go so sexy all of the sudden...
>“No,” I said. “I never have.”
>“Think it would be fun?”
>DO I!?!?!?!?!?!?! “Um. yeah. I mean, you don’t have to.”
>“I think I want to,” she said, and we kissed a little, and then. And then with me sitting watching The Brady Bunch, watching Marcia Marcia Marcia up to her Brady antics, Lara unbuttoned my pants and pulled my boxers down a little and pulled out my penis.
>“Wow,” she said.
>“What?”
>She looked up at me, but didn’t move, her face nanometers away from my penis. “It’s a duck.”
>“What do you mean duck?”
>“What is the criterion of the visual experience?—The criterion? What do you suppose? The representation of 'what is seen', I guess.”
>I could live with that kind of duck. And then she wrapped her hand around it and put it into her mouth.
>And waited.

>>16474448
This is what I always believed even since I was a kid. Is there a name for it?

>>16475630
Life and consciousness are, by all accounts, products of material conditions. On what basis do you suppose they are infinite when we can witness the decline and ultimate cessation of both?

>>16474681
just be a non-materialist atheist

>>16475703
It is logically incoherent to claim consciousness is material.

>>16475855
Did you read my post? I said it appears to be a product of material conditions. Which is true.

>>16474428
>they only get you to a most likely impersonal indifferent vague "first force/being"
What does this mean? What is a 'vague being'? The argument gets you to a unified source of all existence, transcending existence, and since theists theoretically believe that consciousness precedes matter, it is as personal as your mind is.

"You and your anger
do not affect me, you may betake yourself
to the uttermost margin of earth and sea,
where Iapetos and Kronos rest and never
bask in the rays of Helios who moves
all day in heaven, nor rejoice in winds,
but lie submerged in Tartaros. You, too,
may roam that far, you bitch unparalleled,
I'll be indifferent still to your bad temper!"

Robert Fitzgeralds Translation of Homer's Iliad really fucking nails Zeus and Hera's relationship.

Zeus calling her " Bitch Unparalleled" is amazing.

>>16475297
Is this the milk is for the pussy guy?

>>16473810
So the Bible is wrong then when it claims you should believe in Jesus with all your heart and all your mind? Jesus was lying when he said ‘I’m the truth, the light’ etc.? You’re supposed to be religious purely out of utilitarian concerns? I’m pretty sure that makes your faith a comforting lie. You’re basically an atheist as well, just a consciously dishonest one. Also, becoming religious because science proves its benefits is the height of scientism

>>16476324
Holy shit does /lit/ also use the 'u LARPin!' coping mechanism I've so far only seen on /his/?
Believing in something and being pragmatist is not contradictory. Pragmatists actually believe stuff.

>>16476353
>Believing in something and being pragmatist is not contradictory.
If that belief specifically states that believing it to be true should be the sole concern of the person who believes it, even when the believer might die because of it, it most certainly is. There can be no pragmatist version of Christianity, because the martyrdom impulse of Christianity specifically counters this very pragmatism. If you seriously think this is possible, you’re either completely uninformed about your own religion, or completely delusional

>>16474448
Don't tell me you actually believed Socrates' bullshit about death being like a transformative "sleep" (and because you always wake up from sleep you will always wake up from death right guys, g-guys??)

>>16476387
>There can be no pragmatist version of Christianity
Biblical characters act pragmatically all the time. Abraham follows God literally because God promises him things. Fear of death and anticipation of reward are everywhere in the stories. To deny this level of pragmatism inherent in the religion is simply false.
>believing it to be true should be the sole concern
I covered how this is absolutely not the case with Biblical characters and I won't go into how the 30+ books of the Bible amount to 'slightly' more than this, but out of curiosity - how does one believe something "as a sole concern"? Really, just practically, walk me through it, what's the difference between believing that Christ is the Son of God and believing that Christ is the Son of God 'as a sole concern'?

No thread has made as apparent as this one that reading books does not make you intelligent. I mean holy shit, I can almost guarantee you that the majority of atheists itt are the snarky college liberals with superiority complexes pursuing degrees in philosophy who, consequentially, read all day long yet they're still retarded.

>A woman is, occasionally, quite a serviceable substitute for masturbation. It takes an abundance of imagination, to be sure.
-Karl Kraus

>>16472213
Atheists often tote this "argument" but even a child could refute it. If you believe there is no afterlife and when you die you fade into nothingness what the fuck does it matter if you live a fulfilling life or not? If your conscious will disappear and your name will be lost on the tongues of men there is no reason not to just kill yourself. The whole "well it's my only shot :)" makes no sense, it's subjective and very much so. You cannot escape nihilism.

>>16476515
because you deluded christcucks think that meaning only exists with the existence of a God. Without God **you** would kill yourself because you're life-denying, hateful, and unhappy. I don't kill myself because I don't want to, I love life and I want to continue experiencing it.
The fact that the only thing stopping so many Christians from blowing their brains out is that they're scared of burning in Hell says so much about the religion and what it does to people. You cannot even fathom somebody wanting to live. And we're the nihilists...

>>16476720
But Anon... objective meaning DOES only exist if God exists. Don't get upset over Christians shaking their heads at 'well I feel like it' as the intellectual foundation of your entire life.

always fun when /lit/ pretends to be devout.

>>16472213
fpbp
pseudo-christians on suicide watch

>>16473566
>NOOOOOO YOU CAN'T PRESENT FACTS THAT I DON'T AGREE WITH NOOOO
>THAT'S LEDDIT REEEEEEEEEERE

>>16476738
Why do you assume that the default for a human is to want to die?
The fact that you believe that meaning=objective shows how incredibly naive and ultimately uneducated you are. Anyone who truly believes in objectivity as anything more than hypothetical fodder is either willfully ignorant or just an idiot. Meaning can be found anywhere, and believe it or not people are not naturally all slaves who need to be told what "true" meaning is.
Ignoring the completely pathetic notion of needing an "intellectual foundation" for living, your reductionism says nothing. Life is experience. I was born, I am experiencing life, and I have no intention to end it because I love life. I love people, I love art, I love loving, and I love the struggle. It is incredibly sad that you don't, and even sadder that you never will unless you renounce the toxic ideology that serves as the "intellectual foundation" for your entire life.
it remains that I do not want to kill myself, and you do. That should be a massive indicator that something is wrong with your way of thinking.

Does everyone become retarded when discussing christianity and god? Theres not a single reasonable post itt

Those committed to atheism are always pitiful. They are strung along by a promise made by logic that is never kept. They lay claim to truths suspended midair. They are frozen in place like petrified poo from 2011.
Those who claim to not be enslaved in this paradigm are still staring at the shadows dancing above the partition. They are the first to claim enlightenment when they name the shadows properly, and deduce from them no God or morality. They see not the limits of the world, our language and so on. They dance around the contradictions and not the tautologies. They are far--far from Ethics, from that which cannot be talked about. Far from the Firmament of samsara.

>>16476835
Pretty much nothing in your post addresses my propositions. Except this:
> pathetic notion of needing an "intellectual foundation"
So I guess congratulations on rejecting intelligent thought and instead boasting that you have feelings.

Anyway, since it has been hardly at all elaborated on, the point stands:
>>> Don't get upset over Christians shaking their heads at 'well I feel like it' as the intellectual foundation of your entire life.

>>16476897
As westerners we're still living in the ruins of the church. Every modern notion of humanism, internal belief and piety, right and wrong, romantic love, all stem from Christianity. We have deliberately sliced any connection we have to the past, and any modern utopia we try to create ends up as a complete shitshow.

Just look at America, the ultimate expression of this.

Anyone who isn’t an atheist on this board is an impressionable retard who was an atheist once but read the Russians or a Christian philosopher and decided to get back on the sinking ship of clueless fucks because of “intellectual and spiritual” reasons. So pathetic. I can at least respect those who have been Christians all their lives or who adopted Christianity after reading the scriptures and becoming faithful through that, but anyone who suddenly discovers their faith through Aquinas. Kierkegaard or Tolstoy is a desperate pseud

>>16472945
OK. What do you do about the times you've broken that oath?

>>16476977
So much hate lol, read some Seraphim of Sarov

Anyone who isn’t an atheist on this board is an impressionable retard who was an atheist once but read the Russians or a Christian philosopher and decided to get back on the sinking ship of clueless fucks for “intellectual and spiritual” reasons. So pathetic. I can at least respect those who have been Christians all their lives or who adopted Christianity after reading the scriptures and becoming faithful through that, but anyone who suddenly discovers their faith through Aquinas. Kierkegaard or Tolstoy is a desperate pseud

>>16476929
>someone does not need an intellectual foundation to be alive
=/=
>rejecting intelligent thought.
You're life denying. You deny the experience of life itself, believing that it's only worth living to be able to get to heaven, or, more precisely, so that you don't get raped by the devil for all eternity. And even then you don't really live, out of the same fear. It's fear and guilt and hatred all the way down.
You think that you need a reason to justify existence, as if existence doesn't justify itself. Even from a theistic perspective, appreciating God's creation should be more than enough reason to live. But for you it isn't, because you're not merely religious, you're a Christian.
I'm not upset that Christians shake their head at me. I'm in this discussion because it's interesting to me intellectually and even more so it's entertaining to argue. But I do feel a sorrow knowing that you're so miserable for such an obvious reason but you won't acknowledge it because you're so set in the ways that you have been taught.
Christianity breeds nihilism, for all the reasons you have demonstrated

>>16477005
If you feel like intellectual foundation is pathetic, you are not a rational man, sorry.
Write 20 more paragraphs about what you are convinced I think and feel, and how your seething proves that, but at the end of the day, you feel like intellectual foundation is a pathetic concept and I will shake my head over it.

>incredibly naive
>ultimately uneducated
>willfully ignorant
>idiot
>slaves
>pathetic
>toxic
>incredibly sad
>even sadder
>[projects suicidal thoughts]
>You're life denying.
>[projects suicidal thoughts again]
>you don't really live
>fear and guilt and hatred all the way down
>you're so miserable

>I love people

Oh, right. lol

>>16477024
I don't think it's pathetic to have an intellectual foundation for life, I think it's pathetic you think others need an intellectual foundation not to kill themselves.
You're arguing from the position that anyone would kill themselves if they did not believe in God. How do you justify this? Is God's creation not beautiful enough to just be worth experiencing? Is life so miserable for you?

>>16477141
Again, you reject an intellectual foundation of something because you have strong feelings about it, there isn't much more to argue. You're irrational.

>>16472202
The thing is, atheism is just as delusional as Christianity. The only position is agnosticism which everyone loves to hate, bc we are “fence-sifters”. But that’s reality, deal with it and be the future man, or be a pussy and cry, your choice

>>16474114
Seems like you're coping with the fact that civilization made leaps as soon as the priests stopped having a monopoly on knowledge

>>16477221
That makes it sound like the Church was hiding knowledge instead of being virtually the only institution that gave a fuck about it.
No shit civilization made leaps when people became more educated. The fact they did get educated is in huge part thanks to the Church.

>>16477232
>priests often used Latin to write so that the average peasant couldn't read it without them
>they considered science and other beliefs heretical and punishable by death
>durg dey made copies of da books so dey good bois
Cope. This is prevalent in many religions. Brahmins were shat on by intellectual Indians especially for the second reason and I don't need to elaborate on islam

>>16472202
All that really tells me is that Dostoevsky had no sense of courage, heroic or otherwise.
My ancestors, for all their many flaws, knew that even their Gods would die when the time came and weren't all that bothered about it.

>>16477212
? I don't reject Christianity because of vague feelings, I reject it because it's a garbage religion which perpetuates its slave morality founded upon ressentiment, which causes its followers to become miserable life-deniers and, ultimately, nihilists.
Of what you've said, what I reject is the notion that life isn't worth living on its own. That everyone wants to kill themselves but are only saved by the threat that they will burn in Hell. Like I've said, you are life-denying to the extreme--you deny even the magnificence of your God's own creation.

>>16477262
>>priests often used Latin to write so that the average peasant couldn't read it without them
This is literally made up. Latin language was used because the Catholic tradition started in Rome, where they wrote in classical Latin. Priest read theological commentaries in original Latin and maintained this language for clarity. It's not a conspiracy.
>>they considered science and other beliefs heretical and punishable by death
Is that why they literally sponsored and practiced research? Is that why they even accepted parts of Galileo's findings before he got political?
>>dey made copies of da books so dey good bois
Literally yes, they gave a shit about research, philosophy and natural world when nobody else did.

>>16477273
>I don't reject Christianity because of ....
Not my claim.
>I reject is the notion that life isn't worth living on its own
Not my claim.

My proposition was pretty clear: Christians have the intellectual foundation of life itself embedded in the idea of an objective meaning and they shake their heads that you would willingly replace it with feelz.
Better luck next time.

>>16476983
I try something else, obviously

>>16476418
>Abraham follows God literally because God promises him things.
You quite literally missed the whole point of the sacrifice of Isaac

>>16473303
>The “truth” is less significant than survival and enjoyment. The future is Islamic.
Islam is such a decadent, weak joke, seriously, the moment the West goes through another fascism phase, that entire religion will be put into a concentration camp. The Jews of the future will be the Muslims and there is nothing you can do about that.

>>16477303
Either this is an elaborate troll or this place is filled with fanatic pseuds.

>>16477343
I'm okay with thinking that and everyone from Church Fathers to Kierkegaard thinking the opposite.
>>16477363
Cope.

>>16477388
>I'm okay with thinking that and everyone from Church Fathers to Kierkegaard thinking the opposite.
They’re not God or Jesus so I don’t care

>>16477388
Cope. Christian's merely built upon Roman and Greek ideals.

>>16472670
somebody who enjoys life wouldn’t feel the need to keep telling themselves and others this existence is amazing. it’s just a cope, no different than a religious one, but continue to feel superior to them..

>>16477402
Okay, what did God or Jesus think? That Abraham didn't care about the promise of descendants? That would make his sacrifice meaningless. He obviously cared. He just had faith that it doesn't have have to happen the exact way he'd like it to. It was still the promise that led him.

>>16477451
>That Abraham didn't care about the promise of descendants?
Not before he was commanded to sacrifice his son, no. He got the order from God, and obeyed it, without any expectation of any reward whatsoever. The Bible is very clear on this

>>16477270
>cross on his flag
Muh marvel comic worshipping ansestuhs

>>16477461
Wait wait wait, Abraham didn't care about God's promise? He was indifferent to it when Isaac was promised and then only became excited after he almost killed his son?
Not only is the Bible not clear on this, it's quite obvious that Abraham is promised things because he wants them. The very nature of 'sacrifice' as a concept is transactional, people sacrifice things and get luck/blessings/fertility/whatever in return. I don't understand what you're drawing from...

>>16477303
people like you should be forcefully put into asylums

>>16477499
huh

>>16477525
Which one is it?
>>> NOO HECKING CHURCH IS OPPRESSIVE, DARK AGES MEANS THEY STOPPED SCIENCE
>>> NOO FEELZ ARE LYF

>>16472213
and congrats, you are the midwit he describes here- you are not actually conceiving of a Godless universe here, mostly because your average atheist rarely thinks beyond themselves. Dosto is familiar with human pain, in particular the pain of children. Imagine all the kids in rape dungeons who die young around the world, all the horrible fucking pain evil people subject them to. Imagine that their lives were pointless, utter misery, and that they are gone forever, that the people who treated them so and so will never see justice. That every precious thought, experience, profound insight, happy memory, treasured friend, nostalgic street corner, it all goes away, its all fascile and meaningless, any thought you have is meandering chemicals which speak to fleshy mechanical magnetism and nothing else. if you can conceive of the immensely cruel joke a Godless world is in earnest, not as passing fancy, you would fucking kys

>>16477492
I said nothing about his Christianity you american comic-obsessed illiterate faggot.
Said ancestors later switched to Christianity, although a far more masculine version than anything seen today or preached by Dostoevsky, and were happy with that too for a while. (roughly until too many of them started reading the Bible translated into their own language)

>>16477430
Recognizing and appreciating the good things in life is a huge part of being happy. I guess you wouldn't know about that.

>>16476515
>what the fuck does it matter if you live a fulfilling life or not?
>it's another "anon can't grasp the idea of people enjoying being alive" post

>>16476738
>objective meaning DOES only exist if God exists
This is a belief that is impossible to substantiate and entirely based on faith. All you have is a claim of objective meaning, and even when you have people agree with you on that premise, tons of people disagree on WHAT that objective meaning actually is. It is no different than a subjective claim and gets you no where. I could claim the only objective good is good feelings, and you'd likely object purely because that doesn't appeal to your current sensibilities. The difference is I could at least prove the feelings actually exist objectively.

>>16476515
Putting aside everything humans believe, or don't, there's this thing humans possess called "ability to take decisions". Because of this, some people whatever they believe kill themselves and some others don't. I know it sounds so crazy I bet your brain can't even comprehend this revolutionary concept but is real trust me.

“A man who dares to waste one hour of time has not discovered the value of life.”
― Charles Darwin

God talked to me in a dream. I saw Jesus and he told me the secrets of the world. God Bless everyone ― Nikocado Avocado

>>16472202
I know God to be actual, but I'd kill myself if a Jew were the son of God or a Bedouin savage's revelation had any meaning. I don't think Jews or Arabs have ever had a real relationship with God.

>>16474316
You didn't chop off the foreskin anon, did you?

"God", as used most commonly, is nothing but a moral axis. Why did no one else here realize and mention this? God is not necessarily the truth, god is not a mighty creature, it is a moral axis. Man does not exist without gods. Hate can be your good, the Logos can be your god, niggers and immigrants can be your gods, elements of nature can be your gods. Morality does not exist without god is a semi-accurate statement, because there is no way for a god not to exist.

Morality stems from personal truths which stem from gods.

>>16477221
Civilisation is formed around religion you brainlet.

How can a man BTFO so many people more than 100 years after his death?

>>16479116
the human race was originally formed around rape. this doesn't mean we can't progress past rape

>>16472525
Butterfly put your trip back on, you vapid cunt.

>>16473579
>Dosto also said if someone proved the truth was outside of Christ, he would stick with Christ. Religious people are so afraid of losing their comforting delusions that they cling to them even if the falsehood of those beliefs are revealed.
You retard, that quote meant he would still believe in the teachings of Jesus Christ even if Jesus himself was proven to be a fake.

Why are there so much /pol/ fag pagan LARPers out tonight?

>>16477270
>a bunch of literal barbarians didn't care about their incoherent nonsensical religions
Doesn't surprise me much.

>>16477345
>the moment the West goes through another fascism phase
lmao okay kid.

>>16472584

Not just /lit/, they infect most of the boards here.

>>16480536
>here
Go back to 8ch faggot.

>>16473566

Whoa, guys look it's an old-ass reddit-tier meme!

Dogshit thread filled with dogshit responses. I'm truly bewildered upon recognition that all arguments regarding the philosophical core of christianity have been jewish vs western. My god, you're all retards

>>16480693
blame the /leftypol/ and /pol/ shit flinging.

>>16472213
lmao atheists really tell themselves this. what a retarded cope. there is not a shred of power or conviction behind your statement, which makes it worthless. just empty platitudes. the concept of "wasting life" doesn't exist when life is inevitably eviscerated to begin with. overall great b8 made me type out an essay

>>16473723
>atheist suddenly believe in objective reality when debating christians

>>16480801
>life is inevitably eviscerated to begin with
>he doesn't love life for itself
>he has to feel he's being led by the hand through his existence for it to matter
True nature of the modern Christian; frightful little hylics for whom faith is simply believing that the dancing shadows are real. You have so little belief that you're afraid of peeling back the curtain to find that there's nothing behind.

>>16477345
>the West goes through another fascism phase

lol good luck with that
Actual fascists admired Islam because they perceived it as more warlike.

>>16472213
fpbp

>>16478977
My parents had my foreskin removed shortly after birth

>>16480835
I could write a book in response to this but my divinely inspired words would be wasted on this thread. Go play vidya, watch porn and capeshit, eat mcdonalds, and continue enjoying "muh only life" retard.

>>16480801
How can one argue atheists value life more when they blow their heads off way more often and have less kids?

>>16480861
Yeah really, "valuing life" while you vouch for transhumanism so you can end up resembling a terminator lmao.

>>16477345
>The Jews of the future will be the Muslims and there is nothing you can do about that.
t. Jew
Jews are **still** the number 1 problem.

>>16481021
kek

>>16480830
Huh? Solipsism isn't a requirement of atheism

>>16479876
>the human race was originally formed around rape
Are you fucking retarded? Go back to watching some kike documentary in science class kid, you don't have a very smart worldview.

>>16481240
What are you talking about? You don't believe Genesis literally, do you?

>>16481258
Rape is not common in hunter-gatherers.

>>16481271
>super gross

>>16473579
>sperging out over dosto’s ‘outside the truth’ quote
Read kierkegaard

>>16480858
>you enjoy life that means you must be a consoomer
I've seen this multiple times and all it does is out you as a midwit

>>16472525
Following the example of Christ dignifies and gives more joy to life than it causes suffering. Happiness is not the goal of a christian, but living in conformity of one's own nature and not subjected to our passions truly gives a slight breeze of joy to life. Whenever I go to Church or I go through confession I feel more human. On the other hand, the despair and meaningless in the life of an atheist is a torment itself.

>>16472202
If I had that hairline Id agree.

>>16473630
Fancy quotes but there's no substance to any of them.

>>16481954
All i hear is that you're a cuck to not even your own imagined spirituality but anothers

>>16476219
How did you know I liked Bataille?

>>16474448
That's a big leap there chuck. Sure, the amount energy in the universe is a constant and simply changes forms. However, that doesn't mean your conciousness is infinite. More like that energy will continue take on an infinite never of forms, and one of those forms is the you that's alive now until your point of death. The your body returns to the earf

>>16472202
"waaaahh if there isn't a skydaddy who will shower me goods and blessings i'm gonna end it all i will!!!"
It's kinda sad to know that he thought he'd go to Heaven because he only pretended to be good to get rewarded... oh well, that's what hacks get.

Nobody:
Atheists: Oh my GAWD an author whose religion helped him cope with suicidal tendencies HOW DISGUSTING, what a hack, if he were rational like me, he would just live

>>16482828
Cope is for the weak

>>16482906
I hope elevating yourself over someone who's suicidal made you feel real strong.

>>16482911
Yes

>>16472202
>..."Æneid," an epos written for dumb reading.

>>16481244
wtf Basedgoyevsky

>>16481271
the real redpill is realizing that a lot of themes present in mozart's operas are also present within modern rap music.
both praise women, drinking eating and having money and parties against banger instrumentals.
mozart was the first rap star

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SGjOuc88JaA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y34jC4I1m70

>>16472202
Atheism is Christianity taken to its logical conclusion. Only a Christian can be an Atheist. Atheism is a Christian heresy, but still Christian.

>>16472202
That just says you have a limited perspective and don't comprehend the other. Looks bad on you more than the atheist.

>>16483028
>the real redpill is realizing that a lot of themes present in mozart's operas are also present within modern rap music.
>both praise women, drinking eating and having money and parties against banger instrumentals.

Pretty sure that’s just a standard desire for high t men.

>>16472525
Dostoevsky doesn't talk about non-religious people. He talks about atheists, it's a completely different thing

>>16483036
take your pills, anon

>>16483181
He's partly right. Atheism can't exist without Christianity, just like Satanism can't.

>>16483037
>pointing out the inherent nihilism of my worldview looks bad on you
ok

>>16483196
Well that goes for every religion in the world. Based on his argument to be atheist would mean being a follower of thousands of religions.

>>16483196
If Christianity never existed, and our cultural religion was Hinduism, one could still be an atheist.

>>16483265
Atheism was created by christians

>>16483389
Atheism was created the first time a person heard a religious proposition and rejected it

>>16483406
By that logic all religious people are Atheists because they reject the religious propositions of other religions.

>>16472202
Quote made by a brainlet.

>>16473282
>being a good parent is the best thing one can do
ftfy. You are welcome.

>>16483501
Women are inferior to men.

>>16472226
Stupid nigger. Christianity is a way to free yourself of vice obviously he was not strong enough. Its a lifelong struggle, majority fail mostly due to this kike controlled world.

>>16483441
They are to those other gods, yes

>>16472929
woah based. Where can I find that?

>>16476720
You didn't even read what I said you mental midget. You say you don't kill yourself because you want to experience life, but what does that even matter in the long term? Without a spiritual belief your life is objectively worthless, it doesn't matter if you "want to experience life" or not - there is no objective reason to not kill yourself. It's just your subjective whining.

>>16484463
>in the long term
i cannot fathom being this retarded.
> Without a spiritual belief your life is objectively worthless
There is no objectivity, faggot. And no, it's not worthless. You think that life is worthless without someone there to reassure you (through threats of punishment, mind you) that it's not. You deny the magnificence of your own God's creation.
> there is no objective reason to not kill yourself
yes, there is no objective reason not to kill yourself. There are millions of real reasons though, and none of them should be "because I'm scared the devil will rape me".
Do you not see how life-denying and pessimistic your entire outlook is?

>>16482906
lol, statements like that only serve to show others that you're a hopelessly vapid automaton incapable of fully grasping the gravity of the nihilistic position. What a nasty, immature and vulgar thing to express.

>>16483441
Yes. You are atheist towards tons of religions because you reject their claims entirely.

>>16484848
Uh oh, is someone a little insecure? Does someone value their coping mechanism and gets a little upset when attention is brought to the fact that needing such a mechanism makes you weak? Yes, hurl insults, that is sure to take away your own insecurity and weakness

>>16483036
>>16483196
There were literally atheist philosophers in ancient Greece, hundreds of years before Christ was born.

>>16473282
cringe

>>16480861
people have more kids because they are poor and stupid. lower classes uphold christfaggottry nowadays.

>>16485798
>people have more kids because they are poor and stupid
Hello, Reddit.