/lit/ - Literature

>>16490422
Jung is pretty cool, I'm currently reading his autobiography, Memories, Dreams, Reflections, and it is such a nice book

>>16490422
You should read "History of Modern Psychology: Zurich lectures" next anon, it pairs very well with MMISOAS.

bump

>>16490422
Are Jung and/or Freud good reads? They seem like such interesting (and honestly, funny) people, but it almost feels like I'd be reading outdated science papers or something. Or is it closer to reading philosophy?

>>16490865
It's definitely closer to philosophy, especially Jung. He himself said "Hegel was a psychologist in a philosophers clothing, and I'm a philosopher in a psychologists clothing". Just take that someone like Socrates stands as one of the most important historically ancient influences on Jung.

>>16490422
>Self-discipline (retention of one's emotions) is harmful if it is not shared (eg chastity between monks vs chastity of a 20 something guy)
Don't agree with this, self discipline is just 100x easier when you're doing it in a group.

>>16490909
That's why it's harmful when not shared. It's too big a burden to bear on your own.

>>16490919
Maybe in Jung's case, but it doesn't necessarily apply to everyone. There are plenty of people who can bear strong burdens on their own.

>>16490865
>Or is it closer to reading philosophy?
It's closer to reading philosophy in that it is completely detached from reality, and they keep arguing with each other about their beliefs and gut feelings
No one outside of occult/schizo circles takes these people seriously anymore

>>16490909
that's literally what Jung states: self discipline in a group = easy, self discipline alone = hard (because secret = guilt)

Being a virgin is great, no one should be ashamed of their virginity. What a great mistake of conscience. You have an asset very few others now possess. I was a frustrated virgin once and gave it away too hastily- now if only I could have it back, to experience it fully for the first time with someone worth giving my innocence and my dedication to.

Save it for marriage, it's really not such a foolish idea I've come to realize.

>>16491037
Says the chad with his 9 incher

>>16490930

>>16491062
Look it's only 7 and change okay? Now give me a hug. You'll be alright. We all grow up! I hope very much that you find someone who loves you and wants to give you their innocence too.

>>16491037
>an asset
>being frustrated, naive and clueless of how to satisfy a partner

>>16491100
Doesn't change anything.

>>16491103
Chads can't imagine what it's like to have something missing because their past successes make them willing to take risks because they're confident that they'll win. You're willing to brave the stakes because you have more social capital.

>>16490422
Jung is incredibly based, but I feel he understates the importance of sex. It's probably his reaction against Freud's sexualisation of everything.
Sex is a drive as insistent and as powerful as hunger. Failing to satisfy your basic drives is unhealthy and likely to cause obsession.
When you get hungry, you eat. When you get horny, you have sex. Virginity is unnatural and damaging, and instead of coping you should focus on losing it.

>>16491127
Incel hands typed this

>>16491103
Not as clueless as you probably think. Just try your best. If they are a good partner, they will love and be satisfied with the whole you, of which sex is only a part. Everyone learns how to love together with their partner.


>>16491106
Talk is very cheap. Of course only you can make the choices which will change your life... I only want to tell you that I think virginity is terribly and shamefully undervalued and the scorn it gets is the mark of a damaged society. Virginity should be so praised and highly held. It is sacred. It signifies to me that someone is yet uninflicted the insight of what love can be like, and would, could still love anyone for their goodness. What is derided and spat upon as desperation is the soon lost ability to trust and appreciate anyone who would love you too. Don't waste that!


>>16491115
Look my friend I was a kissless virgin until college, over which I self-harmed and at my lowest considered suicide over (in conjunction with the pain of traumatic social alienation which I don't want to get into), and I ended up giving it away to someone whom I was number 6 to . It's not like you think.

>>16490865
Psychology is worthless unless it’s closer to reading philosophy. Psychology as a science is embarrassingly poor because it has almost no fundamental grounding in a slightly purer science. So much of it is mental gymnastics to justify a status quo of un-biological ideas.
>>16490891
Based

>>16491148

>>16491166
You've been imprisoned by Christian notions of chastity, which have held sway for 0.001% of our evolutionary history.

>>16490865
Freud is really great, closer to philosophy but compared to Jung, closer to medicine and so on. If I may recommend a book, Civilization and its discontents is a great read and pretty contemporary.

>>16491191
It just so happens that the Christian notion of chastity, shared in common with every developed religion, created everything of value in modern life.

If you want to see an unchaste world, move to a random aids-filled African village. Yes, that is the sexual ethos of 99.99% of our evolutionary history. I'm sure it will motivate you to do great things.

>>16491191
I wasn't raised religiously and first read a single line from the christian bible at 22. I truly think there is something special about the first time someone experiences a relationship that way. It is (or is among) the closest you can be with someone, and that very strongly affects your and their development. Mutual intimacy, though material in action, has spiritual consequences regardless of what religious framing.

>>16491241
>implying actual Christians followed the Christian notion of chastity
Christianity is and always was a larp. The briefest glance at history reveals that sexual promiscuity was always the norm.

>>16491247
>I truly think there is something special about the first time someone experiences a relationship that way.
I agree. The first time you do anything invariably leaves the deepest impression on you. Psychologists call it imprinting.
But that's not an argument in favour of preserving virginity for its own sake.

>>16491264
Certainly not and I at no point advised such. I only want to affirm the significance of it and that by itself it should be viewed optimistically. It is like being able to retain a piece of childhood- maybe this is unfitting, but as children all we want to do is be older, grow up, have what adults have, execute like only adults seem to; as adults we long for childhood, reminisce about freedom from the burdens of adulthood. The 'loss of virginity,' or first sexual love reminds me similarly.

>>16491037
OP here, after years of atheism I've read the Bible and Intro to Christianity by Ratzinger (thanks /lit/) and I went back to my christianity roots. I agree with you: being virgin it's not something to be ashamed of per se but because we live in a society that put pussy and sex on a pedestal I feel inadeguate and frustrated. As Jung said I think that my sexual thoughts are caused by this and that (see OP post), sex would be good if supported by love otherwise it's just lust but the fact of being a 26yo friendless virgin really stresses me out. It's this dichotomy between "lust is bad" and "just have sex" that tears me apart.
Maybe I'm just in a stressful series of events and this is the drop that breaks the camel's back but damn that's hard bros.
I hope my serious post will help someone in my position to rethink it's sex/lack of intimacy addiction.

>>16491381
This just sounds like cope, frankly. It's not "society" that's putting sex on a pedestal, it's the hormones in your bloodstream and two million years of evolutionary pressure. If anything, "society" (in the form of residual Christian mores) is the force that's holding you back.

Your animal hindbrain wants you to have sex. You're resisting this (or failing to accommodate it), which is leading to psychological conflict. There is no reason to resist something that's perfectly normal, natural and healthy. You need to get laid.

>>16491381
I would have to agree with >>16491444, if only in that the categorization of lust vs love etc sounds like an unsatisfying way to tell oneself the way they feel is wrong. It's not wrong to want somebody... I feel like what you could really use is even just one person to confide in who supports you and is your friend. Then maybe you wouldn't be so anxious anymore, as per Jung and the shared secret. It will be easier to find love if you find explore life as well, and that is best done with a friend by your side. Maybe too, that's a set of chances you'd be more willing to take- those involved in looking for a friend.

>>16490422
Just have sex, its not that hard holy shit just do it cum in a girl, or a guy if youre gay

Thank you OP.

>>16491515
This is the simple truth and it's taken me decades to learn it.
You just need to set up your life so that you can have sex a couple of times a week (more or less according to your drive) without selling your soul. If that's in marriage, fine, if not, fine. Fail to do so and your mind and psyche go in some weird directions.

>>16491515
It's hard as fuck.

>>16491630
It really isn't.

>>16491515
Thanks Chad, i'll just be myself.

>>16490422
YOU'RE (clap) NOT (clap) OWED (clap) SEX

>>16491127
He doesn’t write about it as much as Freud, but I wouldn’t say he understates it. Even opposite, actually: if I remember correctly, libido in Jung’s case is necessary tied to the general life energy and power to do things. So, for someone who recognizes his power to live freely is at least moderately ambitious, sex life is a part of life in general.

>>16491652
*and

>>16491515
>>16491444
>>16491576
sex is one of the most overrated thing in the world you retarded virginal coomers

once you've had it you'll despair over how much time and worry you've spent trying to get it or how much you've brooded over the lack of it

>>16491668
You're doing it wrong.

>>16491678
I'm just not sub 100 IQ like you

I have had aesthetic and philosophical experiences 100000x the intensity and pleasure of grinding my penis inside a vagina

>>16491668
>how much time and worry you've spent trying to get it or how much you've brooded over the lack of it
Speak for yourself, beta cuck.

>>16491633
I advocate the opposite of this. Listen to your heart and go after that person, be their partner and cherish love. You only have one life and I personally think you will regret giving it to a hooker.

>>16491693
>le superior aesthete who has transcended corporeal concerns

>>16491711
not really

sex is like eating a fucking meal - it's good but not that special and you forget it very quickly

>>16491515
>>16491576
>>16491633
>>16491648
>>16491678
>>16491701
https://youtu.be/Jz0sxnqcpMI

>>16491722
But if you don't eat meals, you'll end up starving and obsessed with food. Which is what the thread is all about ...

>>16491702
I would agree if OP wasn't 26 years old. He'll be carrying his virginity like a cross by now. He needs to chuck it and move on.

>>16491668
>sex is one of the most overrated thing in the world
This is some strange cope for an incel.

Here's a book for all of you.

I've always been a dreamer, someone who sits around in fantasy, who struggles socially, who has never reached his true potential because of laziness (school, university, anything I try my hand at), who's always been afraid of any form of physical confrontation (especially with my father) and has never had a long term intimate relationship (20, I have had a bit of progress recently, only lasted two weeks though so it doesn't really count).
Reading Jung for last few months, and consequently von Franz, I've made actual progress with the problems in my life. There are strange episodes where I make one of them a little better (like getting a girlfriend and a first kiss, bursts of giving my all in my studies, getting a job that pays well and making me physically stronger) and incrementally progress in them, not without a fair share of backsliding. (especially after trying to get into a relationship with someone, it threw me off completely on the other dimensions. But it showed me what I should and shouldn't do with the next girl (who's already come along as if summoned from the void :) ).

Many of you on this board (and others) share the traits described above with me, and I think they all tie in with the ideas in this book. Everything has gotten slowly better since I started reading this book.
Try it, what do you have to lose?

>>16491702
I agree, find a girl you like and try to fall in love. I mean there are few things as fulfilling as this.

A nice description of most of the guys on /lit/ honestly.

>>16491840
If OP keeps reading Jung, he'll find that love is just a projection of his Anima archetype. Like all projections, it's a delusion.

>>16491814
Would you recommend this book still to someone who has already gotten past the hardships of not having realized themselves, not having a gf etc. but still interested in Jungian psychology?

>>16491756
It is a personal event, the first love. It should not be a rite of passage into social acceptance like the twisted west has built it up to be, to 'lose' some burden of virginity, like a yoke to be shaken off. Yet people let themselves be driven by it just the same, this pressure to conform. Please, just let it be special. Recognize yourself as more than what uncaring unaffected others put upon you, your supposed worth.

>>16491851
But it was my father who was overbearing.

>>16491851
Absolutely based.
/lit/ BTFO.

>>16491855
I don't think love is a projection. What is real love man? It's when you choose to hold a bond with someone despite all of the flaws you see in them, and that, no matter what they do, you will keep loving them. Unconditional, transcendent. It's not just erotic or romantic, the object of perfection you see when you start out in a relationship. In a sense I can understand why the divorce right is as high as it is, its because of an extreme confusion of what actual love is.

>>16491857
Yeah, I can't see why not. Maybe it'll give some insight as to why you were in that position in the first place. Man I've realized a shit load of things that set me on this path when I was a kid because of that book. I could see what really went wrong. And hey, there's always something to improve right.

>>16491892
>the object of perfection you see when you start out in a relationship
This is the projection stage, aka eros.
>you choose to hold a bond with someone despite all of the flaws you see in them
This is after the projection evaporates, aka philia.

>>16491851
>mental masculinity
>phallus
>the clay
this is fucking cringe

rather just read Freud or even Heidegger for a critique of people who are "philosophically" inclined

>>16491921
True. Although, looking backwards is sometimes hard without cringing - maybe because it wasn’t too long ago.
Such lessons will probably come of use when at some point I’ll have children, though.

>>16491923
I've read somewhere that there are four "stages", "archetypes" or whatever else you might call them.

>>16491851
She took Nietzsche too seriously. She's right that some men play with concepts like a game, they're called sophists and pseuds and they do have issues. When done as philosophy should be done it brings order to the world through reason. Philosophy is essentially masculine.

>>16490909
you're retarded

>>16490422
https://discord.gg/VSx7vqJ

>>16491970
You're misinterpreting the context in which she said this, she's talking about men who didn't grow the fuck up. The problem is the philosophy that swirls around in the heads of people like this have no implications for reality (in their lives anyways), they're using it as a distraction in order to avoid facing the world (and they are most likely not conscious of this fact, as I was)

I have a friend who fucked a hooker, and he absolutely hated it. He now tells me he cannot ever see himself in a relationship with a woman for longer than a year, and that he does not care about sex at all, and just wants someone to cuddle with and listen to him. Very contradictory statements imo, and he is thoroughly convinced love is not worth it or probably doesn't exist, and that sex is terrible. He has never been in a relationship with a woman.

>>16491668
Exactly, thats why I recommended he do it to get it out of the way to realise how meaningless it is you flaming buttpirate

>>16491693
Cope

>>16492265
Fug

>>16492173
My advise would be to find a 4-3/10 nerdy (and not the gurl gamrrr whore fishing for simps kind of nerdy, but the unkempt, socially awkward, borderline-autistic one, perhaps hardcore Christcuck or from an abusive household or something) chick who would be grateful for any kind of affection and positive attention. But naturallly, he probably wants a manic pixie supermodel who will turn him into a charismatic Chad and solve most of his other problems with the power of her vag.

>>16490924
t. hasn't seen the sopranos

>>16492173
>>16492374
The advantage of hookers is that nobody will ever find out how late your lost your virginity, or how hopeless you were in the sack. You can use them for training purposes, and emerge as a fully-formed Chad.

>>16492413
Delusional

>>16492413
Chadness is not about sex technique though. Chadness is about getting to the sex without paying - or with minimal paying and never explicitly paying or promising any reward, monetary or other, for sex. And how would you train to do that with hookers?

>>16492413
Doesn't bring back the decades of nosex

>>16492456
He probably means you can practice fucking?

>>16491241
Based

>>16491851
maybe that was true in the 1950's when she wrote it but nowadays most guys escape into tranny porn and video games lol

>>16492516
If that's what you want, I have bad news for you ...

>>16491855
>Like all projections, it's a delusion.
I disagree. An anima projection is usually unrequited love, i.e. you project your anima onto a girl and because you never get to know her the illusion remains. If you actually date a girl the projection will always cease because no girl lives up to the ideal image you initially see in her. If, after this illusion breaks, you decide "well I guess you're not perfect, but neither am I so lets stay together and grow as people" then you have true love. Also I don't think that projections are always delusional in nature. If you project your anima onto a girl that means that you are seeing a part of yourself in her, and this projection can serve as a psychic bridge. It only becomes an issue if your projection is all you ever see in her.

>>16492173
>>16492173
I slept with 3 hookers. The first was my 7th notch during a dry spell. The experience was horrible but I wouldn't trade it. She was a caricature. When I tried to kiss her she flailed her tongue around like she was insane; she probably wanted to completely disconnect from the experience. I learned a lot from that.

The second was a great hooker if you just wanted a good time. We texted on tinder and then she just laid it out on the table. I paid her 150,000 columbian pesos, a bit less than $40. She was sexy, something like a 1/3 black 1/3 european 1/3 native, with c cups slightly sagging, a memorial to her pregnancy, and a fat ass. She was just fun; confident with her body, and loved sex and fun. After the awkwardness of the first kiss the experience was a blast. She added me on insta and texted me a few times, but I wasn't interested in going again. I didn't want to ruin the memory and the romance by making it a habit.

The third was an accident, my friend pulled me into a brothel. He wanted to go out on a high note. Bastard ended up going home alone and I did not. I think it was a set up, he knows I don't have self control.
When the time came the woman surrounded us in a semi circle, about 15 of them. I was feeling drunk and confident, and my eyes swept across the line of women- until I got half way, and an electric eye contact let me know I didn't need to see anyone else. She was gorgeous, and sweet, and tactful and elegant. Putting herself through college in a third world country; she deserved better but than her circumstances gave her. I took her home and showed her my journal; we fumbled through my broken spanish and talked about literature. She loved magic realism; I ended up reading Gabriel García Márquez because of her. We had sex, and when the condom broke we had sex still, and it was an amazing experience. I found in her the depth that the first hid and the second lacked. We exchanged instagrams; I flew home the next day. She wrote me poetry that I tried to decifer through google translate; I wrote her back poetry that had been butchered by google translate. Eventually I found a woman the way I should, and cut her out of my life.

In a perfect world I'd say it should never happen, but in this imperfect world the experience can be far more than the superficial hedonism it is on paper. Don't do it, but if you do be open to the fact you don't know what it will be.

>>16491211
Thanks, Anon, I'll check it out. In interested to see what he's all about

>>16492605
>that .jpg
Based

>>16491127
>When you get horny, you have sex. Virginity is unnatural and damaging, and instead of coping you should focus on losing it.
Anyone who has tried for atleast 3 month to lead a life of celibacy both of the mind and body, will enjoy its benefits.

I honestly belief humans like most other animal species have a mating season, but somehow genes got turned on, or new genes make us express our sexuality constantly.

This causes the depletion of the spirit.

>>16492605
Religion is a system of wishful illusions with a psychic consciousness, in the dark hinterland of the psyche, a disavowal of reality.

>>16492605
Based

>>16490865
Freud was a notorious, subversive, Jewish sex-pervert.
Jung is pretty good though.

>>16492775
There are two ways of looking at the world, one is to get lost in a system of wishful illusions with a psychic consciousness, in the dark hinterland of the psyche, a disavowal of reality, the other is being religious.

>>16492806
>describes religion twice
I guess theirs a third way

>>16492837
>theirs

>>16491115
Are you aware of how pathetic this sounds? You are wrong, but you don't want the truth

>>16492806
>describes religion twice
I guess there’s a third way

>>16492864
>nazi cackle.gif

>>16492982
Fucking moron. That anon's gif is from Inglourious Basterds, directed by Quentin Tarantino. The gif is of Lt. Archie Hicox, a British spy infiltrating the SS.

>>16492982
I'm glad you deleted your post out of embarrassment. Picking up an elementary grammar book for your mother tongue would serve you better than shitting up /lit/ with your garbage takes.

>>16491814
All right, I just bought it. I hope it's good.
>>16491855
In what book does he say that? The one that I'm currently reading?
>>16492413
Get rid of this pathetic 4chan lingo, for fuck sake I started this thread because I wanted to have a patrician /lit/ tier discussion. Cmon guys you are better than muh chad muh hookers, be serious for once. I can literally drive 2 hour and go to a legal brothel and lose my V card but my (and Jung's) point is that we are all sex obsessed because of psycological issues.

>>16492679
My situation is very similar to OP. At 25 I had my first encounter with my anima. It was projected onto this girl I was dating/orbiting. I finally broke contact with her, and it took a few years to break the spell and understand what happened. Holy fuck my anima is powerful I was completely powerless against it. I have issues with my anima, and attachment and personal connection, and it is all complicated by the death of my mother at 20yo. Anyways Jung helped me. But I've graduated past Jung and I think most of you will too.

>>16493565
>I've graduated past Jung
Wait until you reach middle age. You haven't even had your individuation crisis yet.

>>16493605
Don't remind me bro

>>16491851
oh fuck that's literally ME

>>16491037
You've just overdosed on copium

>>16492679
>It only becomes an issue if your projection is all you ever see in her.
Or if it's all you ever can see in her. Perhaps because you never can get to know her. Almost like she's nothing more than a still image.
Just imagine

>>16492173
prostitutes are great dude, don't worry about it. normal women are just whores with a chip on their shoulder anyway.

>>16493847

>>16491037
Speaking as a 30khv, it is not an asset in anyway. Women detest inexperience, and sex coming so easily to them deludes them to thinking it comes just as easy to men so they think there's something wrong with you.

>>16490969
>that's literally what Jung states
he states that it's harmful
and hard=/=harmful

>>16491711
Yes.

>>16493293
>In what book does he say that?
He doesn't say that. He has a very good exposition of the anima as the projection making factor in the third chapter of Aion, he also describes the puer aeternus (though he doesn't use those words)

>>16494100

>>16494107

>>16490865
>but it almost feels like I'd be reading outdated science papers or something
psychoanalysis is the bedrock of critical theory. See Lacan.

>>16494100
All right, thank you anon. I'll check it out.

>>16494114
This infantilism is the origin of most of the problems of Puer Aeternus pathology. I don't know what Jung would have thought about this, but I think that a pathology, or neurosis, is like an obstacle to truly getting to know yourself and becoming whole. It must be overcome before you can go on to recognize the aspects of your shadow and integrate it. This becomes even more difficult, if this pathology, and your shadow, are bound up in an archetype that relies on projections originating in the anima.
You can see these projections most clearly if you watch your fantasies, desires and resentment. Not all your projections are connected to the neurosis, but the idea is to get at those causing the issues. Only by going up to the root of this issue can you truly solve the problem and go on to integrate your shadow, and then, years later, come into full contact with the anima again.

This is why Jung says to solve this problem you have to have a faithless eros. You have to give up your neediness (your mother takes care of all your needs, so this is what you look for in other women) before you can have a genuine relationship with a woman, you have to set goals for yourself and work through the most grudgingly boring shit to get to them (if you avoid doing some important work for months on end you're obviously afraid of it), you have let go of your fears of violence so you can handle yourself in dangerous situations, you have to let go of what you think other people think about you and look them in the eye so you can know what they're really thinking (because if you know what the other person is thinking you know how to interact with them)

These are the things that I realized I have to practically implement in my life in order to get through the next fifteen to twenty years. You have to face the world with all your might.

>>16494144
Lacan mixes it with postmodernist thought, so that vein of psychoanalysis is utter rubbish. Comparing Laca with Jung is idiotic.

>>16494114

>>16491085
he can't get out of the cave doe. Suicide is taboo for plato and every other religious derivative of platonism

>>16491855
>Like all projections, it's a delusion
If my love for my girlfriend is just a delusion, then so be it. It is one of the few things that gives my life meaning in this age of darkness.

>>16494253
So if you're unable to get into relationship - you're mentally ill?

Sex can be virgin, and celibacy may not be virgin. Things are very complicated. If a man is celibate and thinks constantly of sex, he is not virgin. On the other hand, if a man makes love to a woman, or the woman makes love to a man, and there is no thought of sex - no sexuality in the head, no cerebral sex - it is virgin. Virgin means pure. Virgin means uncontaminated. Virgin means spontaneous. Virgin means simple, innocent.

Now, sex is not the problem. Sexuality is the problem. There are people who are continually thinking of sex. And the more you try to enforce some celibacy on yourself - you become a nun or a monk - the more you think of sex. In fact, you don't think about anything else, you only think of sex because that is your starved part. It takes revenge, it becomes very aggressive. It comes again and again, bubbles up, surfaces in the head. You go on saying prayers to keep it repressed, and you go on doing this and that - a thousand and one things. But whenever there is rest, it is there. You go to sleep and it is there. It becomes your dream, it becomes your fantasy. If you repress it too much, it then starts coming through different symbols. They may not be sexual on the surface but deep down they are sexual.

Sexuality means that sex has entered into the head, but why has sex entered into the head in the first place? It enters into the head if you repress it. Anything repressed enters into the head. Try for three days: go on a fast, and the thought of food will enter into the head. For seven days don't take a bath_ I am not talking about hippies. If you are a hippie, then this won't do. For seven days don't take a bath, and that will enter into your head. For three, four days don't sleep, and that will enter in your head. Then you will be continuously thinking of sleep, sleep will be continuously coming and you will be yawning. Whatsoever is starved enters the head, and when something enters the head your whole being becomes polluted with it.

>>16495106
By virginity, I mean that Mary must have been in a very, very non-sexual state. She must have been a very innocent woman. She must not have been thinking about sex; she must have made love, but that love was innocent. There was no idea in it; the mind was not interfering. It was completely uncontaminated by the mind, uninterfered with by the mind. That's what we in Tantra say is real love.

Ordinarily what do you do? You see a woman, a beautiful woman, and you start fantasizing. "A beautiful woman_ How to take her to bed?" Now you start planning. Now there is great turmoil and calculation inside - how to introduce yourself to her, and how to "make it." On the surface you don't show that; it continues inside: calculation, thinking, planning, designing. When you talk to her you don't show any indication that you are sexually interested in her - because she may feel offended. Things may go wrong from the very beginning. You talk about other things - poetry, literature - and you are not concerned with poetry and literature at all. You are concerned somehow with how to jump into bed. You are planning inside, but on the surface you are showing interest in art, in music, you are praising the music that is on. But deep down, you are waiting for something else. This is non-virginity.

>>16495111
You meet a woman, you don’t think about sex at all. Only pathological people think about sex, healthy people don’t think about sex. There is no need. You enjoy the beauty of the woman – her face, her eyes, her proportion – you are simply thrilled by her being. There is no idea to do anything to her, there is no idea to exploit, there is no idea to possess. You are immensely interested, but very innocently. There is no planning in your mind, there is no future, then it is a virgin relationship. One day love can happen. One day listening to music, dancing together, love can possess you both: you can make love to each other. But even while making love, there is no idea – there is no mind in it. It is innocent of mind, then it is a virgin relationship.

If you ask me, then this is what I mean by virgin. Jesus cannot be born in the way Christians say – that is absurd, stupid. But why do they say that he was born out of a virgin mother? They are too obsessed with sex, and to them it seems degrading that Jesus should come out of sex, out of an ordinary love relationship. That looks very, very disturbing to them. Their God, their master, their savior coming through the ordinary passage of sex? No, it is not possible. If Jesus can come through sex, then how will they condemn sex? Then how will they tell their nuns and their monks, “Don’t ever go into sex. It is ugly, it is the greatest sin there is”? If Jesus himself enters the world through natural love, it will be difficult to condemn it. Then a nun can say, “Who knows, maybe Jesus wants to come through me?” Or a monk can say, “Who knows? Joseph never knew. Who knows maybe Jesus wants to come through me?”

>>16495115
If Jesus can come through love, love is enhanced, enthroned. Then love becomes a great value. If Jesus comes through love, then love will have a splendor to it, and that is difficult for the pathological people. They condemn sex, because through condemning sex they can control people, they can make them feel guilty – that is their strategy. Make people feel guilty, and they become slaves and serfs. Make them feel guilty and they are always crawling. Make them feel guilty and you can exploit them. Make them feel guilty and they will come crawling to the churches and to the mosques and to the temples, and they will never be rebellious. They will be so afraid – they are sinners, they have to be saved. Create the idea in them that they are sinners, then certainly they will start searching and seeking how to be saved. Then you can trap them into the church. You can say to them, “This is the only way to be saved – only those who go through Jesus will be saved.”

The more they are trembling, the more they are afraid, the closer death is coming, the more they will start coming to the church, and the more they will believe in any nonsense that you say. This has been used by the priest and the politician to exploit people, to repress people, to oppress people, to dominate people. They cannot say that Jesus comes through ordinary love; they want to make it special. And this tendency exists in all the religions. Somehow they want to make their master special. Jainas say that Mahavira’s perspiration does not smell – in fact, he does not perspire. He does not defecate – he’s not an ordinary human being. Defecation, urinating, are very ordinary things – Mahavira does not do that.

>>16491444
Completely false. Sex is a human idea, it’s the greatest pleasure you can have (we are told). You have sex for pleasure where animals have it to reproduce, which is why humans spend so much more time and energy having sex and thinking about sex compared to animals. It is NOT a desire of our body but rather a desire of our mind. Fucking retard!

>>16493605
>>16493683

Meh I'm almost 29 and I'm pretty sure I went through that shit too. Personally I think "individuation" and "integrated personality" are mostly meaningless terms and are probably the weakest of Jung's ideas.

>>16490422
yeah, it's about humiliations dude.


You feel put on, deal with that, and realize all your bitching is because you think you are too special.

>>16492775
hey you used disavowal correctly. Cool

Before you guys clean your rooms and buck up too much, chew on this:
There's nothing wrong with being a virgin and masculinity is not a virtue.

>>16490919
it reminds me of the AA in IJ

>>16492001
nah...people who are philosophy autist almost certainly DO understand their problems. Whether they have the strength to confront them is another thing entirely. I think she better describes modern fandoms (anime, video game, comic book, etc) or larps. In what way is someone who reads Plato, Kant, Nietzche, etc actually a "man-child" by modern defintion?

>>16494253
What does he mean by faithless eros?

>>16495115
I think you're right about a (more likely) understanding of virginity on Marys' part but mistaken in your assestments of nuns and monks. Nuns and monks are expected to be Brides of Christ/Grooms of the Virgin Mary, respectivly. They are expected to have the sort of "innocent love" and even a tantric love you refer too. It's simply directed towards a different source than other people. You are barking up the wrong tree by signaling them out. A more relevant critique of Christian ethics on sexuality leading to inner conflict would probably be how laypeople cope with how they approach sexuality more so than properly formed religous vocations like monks or nuns. Since laypeople tend to not engage in as much spirtuality and thus only see the exoteric without the esoteric. We can also get into the idea of chastity versus celibacy. Chastity has a lot benifits to avoid the libido domination you are refering too, if someone finds it's making them sin or disrupting their lives in a negative way.

>>16492720
This read like Plato’s final diary entry

>>16494605
Well not necessarily but your definitely doing something wrong if you try for a long time and don't get any results.

>>16494253
Nice post anon.
I’m just getting into Jung and this really helped me better understand the anima/animus concept.

>>16496880
No problem.
You'll eventually see that if you have a sufficiently thorough understanding of his work you can start applying it to your own life. At a certain point after that you'll start to see that his ideas alone aren't enough, and you create this very slow interplay with the unconscious that lasts months or years.
If you really read Jung, you'll see that he tears you apart and puts you back together again like few other people can.

>>16491115
>social capital
Why Marxists so brainwashed?

>tfw very successful job relative to others my age, /fit/ body, lifelong friends since high school who I'd die for and who would die for me, muscle car, interesting hobbies like surfing and spear fishing, been called attractive by multiple girls
>tfw 24 yo virgin
>tfw nobody knows and I've sociopathically lied to everyone I know about it
>tfw have no idea how to figure my way out of this, all of my friends are single guys, my day-to-day life at work and stuff is all guys or boomers, and apps lead nowhere
>every once in awhile I run into a girl from my past who happened to be attracted to me and I mess it up catastrophically before we get to fuck every single time
Jung is right.

>>16497168
Any dreams you can recall lately, anon?

>>16497224
I started taking glycine in the paste couple weeks so my dreams have been clearer than usual. The last one I can remember was me with me lifelong friends (guys) wading through a calf-deep swamp. Every step I'd come across little critters like snakes and bugs and other assorted gross things swimming around me touching me until eventually it got more and more to the point that my legs were covered in snakes and bugs in the swamp water biting me and attacking me and I woke up. I know that has a very chthonic vibe to it but I have no idea how to interpret it. I've also had recent dreams of exploring the ouskirts of a city with a girl I used to like and driving a car on a safari through a savana desperately with other people in other cars and me leading them but I don't remember the specifics.

>>16491166
>It signifies to me that someone is yet uninflicted the insight of what love can be like, and would, could still love anyone for their goodness. What is derided and spat upon as desperation is the soon lost ability to trust and appreciate anyone who would love you too.

You're right about this, at least.

Nice dubdubs btw

>>16491668

This makes the thirsty betas seethe but it's so true. You can hardly feel shit through a condom. Making out, foreplay, and anticipation is better than actual sex

>>16492720

Should be copypasta if it isn't already. this rules

>>16490422
Jung is trash and there are tons of secrets people should keep to themselves

If you're an older guy virginity can become a big source of insecurity. Fucking hookers, if nothing else, can help you get over this insecurity and help you relax when you start dating normal girls.

That's my theory, at least. It's not ideal, but we live in a very not-ideal world.

>>16497587
if you look 200 or 300 years ago and before, the use of hookers was fairly common.

>>16497627
Yeah. Maybe I'm naive but I really don't agree with the stigma on them. Perhaps there was a time when hookers were rightly seen as a threat to family formation/stability? But nowadays with the rise of inceldom I feel like the opposite is true; that prostitutes can be a necessary bridge to normal relationships for lonely male virgins. Is that crazy? I guess the major pitfall is sex work *replacing* normal relationships for people permanently, maybe?

>>16497587
I really dont care about hookers as sex with them is just enchanced masturbation. I have massive trust and psychological issues hence im a 28 year old virgin.

>>16497570
>there are tons of secrets people should keep to themselves
You are right. Our need to confess and share every detail of our lives with others results from a kind of psychological Lutheranism. Some things deserve to remain concealed.

>>16497627
>>16497679
>>16497928
im no expert on incel psychology but I don't know if hookers would necessarily solve their problem. they want to fuck a woman who is actually into them, not a woman who's only sucking their dick for cash. the incel wants to be acknowledged as a legitimate mate based on merit.

>>16497941
it's not about incels you damn idiot. Incel aka "involuntarilycelibate" is a person who has a horrible personality and treats women like sexual objects and thinks his lack of a sex life comes from being "ugly" when its really just his blatant sexism and terrible attitude.
OP post is about how psychological issues shape our sexuality and how virginity is seen as a burden in our society, nobody mentioned women as the cause of our situation as virgins.
Stop being so shallow. "Chads" and "incels" have nothing to do with this.

>>16498202
>treats women like sexual objects
nothing wrong with that

29 year old virgin with no expectation of losing it anytime soon, if ever. Should I go have a wank to pornography? Been about a week since last time.

>>16498245
just wank noporn

>>16497679
>sex work *replacing* normal relationships
Nah it's going to be VR and AI gfs. Fewer risks and cheaper in the long run. After a certain point the only organic whores left are going to be the most expensive elite ones who will service the super-rich. There might still be a market for a person 'driving' a virtual sex avatar, but can you really call such person a whore? It's more like lewd ad lib acting and writing.

>>16490422
Could you explain the middle part I don't get it

>>16491861
It's not so simple. If we assume that people want to have sex (a fair assumption) and that there are relatively few societal obstacles to doing so (also a fair assumption in the West), then a person who remains a virgin must be unable to satisfy their desires, and if so that is an indication of weakness or some other flaw

>>16491814
Does it give practical solutions or is it more about you realizing what is wrong and putting you in the right mindset?

Why are people so bothered with virginity and sex? Really tells you how empty the modern man's life has become.

>>16495630
It's not reading those philosophers which makes you a manchild, but using that reading as a substitution for doing things with the illusion that by reading philosophy alone you are doing well

In this sense the reading of philosophy is equally as productive or worthwhile as plunging yourself into vidya

>>16491702
>>16491861
Spoken like a virgin. Sex is just flesh rubbing together, but virginity weighs on your ability to be sociable once you're in your 20s. It's better to just lose it by that age. Love can come at any age.

>>16498867
basically Freud says that people obsessed with sex it's because they need to be freed from a stressful situation or from family bonds that prevent you from being free.
It's not an organic "I want to have sex" but a stress outlet.
I hoped my post would help someone in my situation to open their eyes and try to know why we are in this miserable situation but alas half of the thread is "just have sex dude" or "muh chad muh incel" nonsense.
some people in here need to grow the fuck up.
>>16498245
pornography is psychogical weapon. Every time you jack off watching someone fuck a girl you'll never meet you make juice happy and more rich. Your choice: being a braindead or being woke.

>>16499276
I won't lie, the things you posted in the OP were definitely intriguing. Along with that anon's suggestion of the Puer Eternus I feel like I'm on to something.

In fact it's downright scary how much I can relate to some of the psychological processes described in this thread

>just have sex dude" or "muh chad muh incel" nonsense

To some extent these are just simplified versions (with added modern baggage) of some of the topics brought up
Just have sex -> grow as a person and get out of misdirected sexual energy and erroneous situations
Chad and incel -> the people who have transcended or fallen deeper into the psychological traps discussed

>>16491259
based retard

>>16499354
I'm happy to hear that anon, I feel that we have to keep our head up. I've bought the Puer Eternus book and I'll dig deeper into this subject. I'll definetely read more Jung books, I like his POV: he's less sex oriented that Freud and more metaphysical/religious oriented.
I genuinely think that if we'll manage to overcome this hard period we will become stronger and wiser.
Anyway I find unconscious extremely fascinating, the fact that our actions and how we are are based on life experiences and psychological traumas is super cool.
Nothing ever happens by chance imho.

>>16497168
Face is what matters the most looks-wise, but certainly the fact that you've got a successful job and that you're ripped should make it easier, so it is weird that you're still a virgin. Are you sure that you're subconsciously trying to keep your virginity on purpose?
>been called attractive by multiple girls
That doesn't have to mean a thing, unless those same girls tried hitting on you.

>>16500365
No these were girls who either A. were into me and I was too oblivious to realize it or B. there was mutual attraction but I fucked it up before we could bang. My romantic life has been an avalanche of obliviousness and autistic spaghetti spilling. I'm not like a male model but I know I'm better looking than the average guy and the girls who have been interested me throughout my life have been fairly attractive. I was too afraid to ask girls out up through college and when I finally got over my hangups I spent a lot of time making mistakes and getting nowhere because I had no idea how to go about anything involving girls. Now I've been out of college for 2 years and I have no idea how to meet girls. All of my friends are single guys, my job is all boomers, my hobbies are solitary or masculine, apps always end in the girl ghosting.

>>16500436
I'm afraid that you're already operating under the assumption that you're attracting since to interpret those observations you've mentioned you need to be in the "I'm attractive" mindset. What's contradicting to me is this obvious belief in your physical looks (which should at least partially transfer to your behaviour, not in a sense that you pick up girls easy but that you at least don't drop your spaghetti around them) coexisting with your virginity. I can't help but think of one of two things, and that's that you're either
1. not as attractive as you think you are, or maybe not attractive at all (being average or maybe even below average)
2. you don't want to lose your virginity for reasons not only known to me but to yourself as well
>I was too afraid to ask girls out up through college
>Now I've been out of college for 2 years and I have no idea how to meet girls
Not a problem since if you're as attractive as you claim you are at least some of them will approach you (as opposed to a life of an average looking guy who almost 100% of the time has to do the approaching).
As for your job, do you want to say that there aren't any females there? Or just young females?
>apps always end in the girl ghosting.
How? Again, if you're so attractive, they should have at least had sex with you before ghosting you and moving on to a new partner (since often promiscuous people often use dating apps).

>>16500463
>Not a problem since if you're as attractive as you claim you are at least some of them will approach you (as opposed to a life of an average looking guy who almost 100% of the time has to do the approaching).
In college when I was around tons of girls my age I did have girls go out of their way to approach me. I even had a fairly attractive girl come up to me out of nowhere in the gym and cold ask me for my number. She later told me she'd never done that before and I could 100% tell because when she asked me for my number her hands were physically shaking with fear to the point that she had trouble putting the number in her phone. I ended up screwing that up the second time we met. I'm not around girls my age in my day-to-day life like that anymore though.
>As for your job, do you want to say that there aren't any females there? Or just young females?
I'm the youngest person at my job by years. The only women that work at my job are like fat 40 year olds or older.
>How? Again, if you're so attractive, they should have at least had sex with you before ghosting you and moving on to a new partner (since often promiscuous people often use dating apps).
My text game is terrible I have no idea what I'm supposed to talk about with some girl I've never met beyond the 6 pictures she puts on her profile and the one word bios. Even girls that I've gone on dates with have told me I don't text them enough or that I'm boring to text. I only text my friends to make plans and I guess girls expect more than that but I don't know what it is that they expect. Also, I don't have social media and because all my friends are guys I don't have many pictures of myself so I use what I have and honestly I have no idea if they're good or not.

>>16500614
>I have no idea what I'm supposed to talk about with some girl I've never met beyond the 6 pictures she puts on her profile and the one word bios
This shouldn't be a problem if they are just looking for a quick screw. If you don't care about love and that stuff and just want to have sex, you really shouldn't have a problem judging by your stories. Did you try the direct approach e.g. telling a girl on the app that you're just interested in sex? This direct approach could also maybe work for some girls which are really into you like the one who asked for your number and whose hands were shaking.

>>16500706
So what when we match the first thing I should say is "I'm just interested in sex"? I use Hinge mostly and I've had girls ghost me for asking for their numbers, I guess it's worth a try but I feel like that wouldn't work. I don't get any matches on Tinder.

>>16500767
>I guess it's worth a try but I feel like that wouldn't work
It's worth a try if you really just want to have sex. Also, what do you have got to lose other than your virginity?
>I don't get any matches on Tinder
What? You have girls go out of their way approaching you irl yet you can't get matches on Tinder of all places? A place which is filled with promiscuous people?

>>16498202
>t. incel

>>16500779
> Also, what do you have got to lose other than your virginity?
I mean ultimately it's opportunity cost but I guess I will try to be more direct as a strategy on these terrible apps.

>What? You have girls go out of their way approaching you irl yet you can't get matches on Tinder of all places? A place which is filled with promiscuous people?
I can spend an entire day swiping right on every girl on Tinder that's not fat or disfigured and I'll come away with like 1 match that will just never respond to my first message. On Hinge you're limited to 5 likes per day and I'm lucky if I get 1 match per week. There they at least reply to me but they always end up ghosting eventually. Apps are just demoralizing because I think back to college or high school where very attractive girls were interested in me but I was too much of a pussy to do anything about it and I know that I'm not ugly because of that but then I just get like almost no matches. I don't fucking understand it.

>>16490969

I might just have to read it myself, because you're doing a bad job representing the argument.

Even if you're self-disciplined alone, that doesn't mean it's a secret or that you feel guilty about it. I am self disciplined, and there are some aspects of my self-discipline that are not a secret e.g. that I starve myself if I don't wake up early enough. So does Jung thing that kind of self-harm is fine?

Alternatively, I literally whip myself with a belt if I don't focus at a particular designated time. I wouldn't admit that to a friend, so its a secret, but I would admit to a friend if I had a BDSM kink because BDSM is socially acceptable. Does that mean whipping yourself for the sake of self-overcoming is somehow less beneficial to yourself than whipping yourself to get off?

>>16500614
>My text game is terrible
that's a problem for me too, i'm more of a person to person, texting bores me and the flow of the conversation is so sluggish that it makes me uninterested, i don't even feel bad for girls to stop chatting with me because it's boring even for me.
I have been thinking about outright asking them out but the current social climate, not gonna lie, scares me, it will feel rushy and that most likely they will think i'm a pervert of sorts, plus COVID-19 made this even more harder.
In the end i decided to stop using this apps and attend more in-person events, not parties just like discussion or even religious groups.

> I ended up screwing that up the second time we met
How you "screwed up" exactly?, it might help other anons understands your situation

>>16501685
It sucks because girls always seem to have fun talking to me in person so it contrasts my text game so much.
>How you "screwed up" exactly?, it might help other anons understands your situation
Dude it's always just some random bullshit series of events that are usually incredibly embarrassing for me. This one in particular hurts to even think about. The gym girl I went on a date with her and then we went to the gym a few times together, she worked 6 days so it was hard for her to find time to date. One of the times at the gym though I was deadlifting and she came over and wanted to watch me deadlift. So I start doing deadlifts and she goes over and stands like right in front of me so that my face is right in her pussy when I'm on the down part of the lift, I swear to God it was so close I could feel the heat. It made me start to get a little hard and because I was in gym shorts it's impossible to hide and I spontaneously popped a partial boner right there in front of her. I tried to hide it but she definitely saw and she just left and we never talked again. It was the end of my senior year and she was a sophomore so I'd never see her again regardless. The whole thing is one of those cringe moments I think about before I fall asleep at night.

>>16501808
Those kind of situations it's better to laugh it off, i don't know what kind of personality the girl had, but most people would like a person who doesn't take itself too seriously and finds comedic value in awkward situations.
I know it's not possible, but try not to think too much about it and learn from every interaction and don't take yourself too seriously, even great thinkers laugh at themselves too.
We will make it anon.

>>16501893
She was sort of prude and easily grossed out so I chalk it more up to her than me desu. It's her fault for shoving her pussy in my face while I'm picking up twice my body weight. Shit like that happens to me all the time though, it's like some kind of divine plot to keep me from losing my virginity.

>>16501808

wait, she went on a date with you and was offended that she turned you on? something doesn't add up

maybe she was upset you didn't ask her to finish you off right there

>>16502011

Oh, I hadn't read >>16501992
yet.

Don't worry anon, she wasn't going to put out anyway.

>>16490422
Women only want Chad. If you're not a Chad, you don't get laid. Simple as. It's much better to retire early.

Average men are the lowest value they have been in a long time. Every economic crisis womens value goes up, mens go down, mens value is still as a capital asset, have to provide a good job, a car, and a house. All this stuff is the hardest it's been to obtain in decades.

I've actually paid to hookers to hug me and stuff like that .
You can try it too anons,they're getting paid money so they'll just fucking do it and maybe do some mommy larp if you ask.
Feels odd remembering that I cried to a whore

>>16491851

this masculine jew bitch is just trying to save her own failure as a philosopher here

>>16491851
This isn't it. Neither my mother, nor my aunt, nor my grandmother were overbearing.

>>16500614
Do you have any female friends or acquaintances around your age? Maybe try to ask them to "diagnose" what you're doing wrong

You could also find a dating coach that does that. I remember seeing something like this on plebbit, a woman who made a career out of it and had satisfied clients. It can be worth it to have someone giving you honest feedback

>>16497168
Please don't take this the wrong way, but are there any indications you might be on the spectrum?

It's not rare to be high-functioning but spaz out when it gets too intimate (as opposed to platonic social relationships)

>>16495325
Nice try tranny

>>16502797
>Do you have any female friends or acquaintances around your age? Maybe try to ask them to "diagnose" what you're doing wrong
No I don't, all of my friends are guys and most of them are single. I refuse to pay some grifter for life advice.

>>16502811
Everyone I know jokes about being autistic. I'm awkward sometimes, honest about things I shouldn't be, and I miss certain social tacts sometimes. Does that make me autistic? I don't know, I've worked at a camp for little kids who were legitimate diagnosed aspies so I know what real non-functioning autism is like and none of this meme "oh sometimes I say mean things so I'm autistic!" bullshit is like that. I get legitimately anxious with my adrenaline pumping whenever I do something that's romantic as opposed to platonic, but I also get that way sometimes when I'm in a store I've never been to and I have to deal with teenage cashiers when I'm buying bananas so idk.

So we have a thinker as rich and as prolific as Jung and the most /lit/ could get out of him is basically
>muh dik
Bravo anons.

>>16490422
As a retard philosophy gives me a headache but I love hearing Jung speak

>>16491211
>>16492721
same

>>16490865
Fraud is a worthless cocaine-addled coomer. Jung is a genuinely worthy psychologist.

>>16503790
Jung was totally disconnected from reality, Freud was a legend

>>16491127
this dude is right

>>16501549
Jung is referring to something that you feel like it's against your will or will make you feel like an outcast to society (for example you've killed someone by accident and you know it's bad/against your moral or in OP's example being a virgin in your late 20s while the majority of people your age have experienced teenage love or some kind of intimacy with a girl and you feel like they are "normal" or that they "fit in the society"), starve yourself or self harming even if nobody knows it it's not a "secret" according to Jung because you chose to do it, it's not something you feel guilty about it because you willingly chosed to do it.
>>16502255
I feel you anon, we have to keep everything inside because we don't want society to see us like pussies. I cried in front of my mother like 2 weeks ago and it was both embarassing and cathartic.

>>16495212
>I'm almost 29
>I'm pretty sure I went through that shit
You didn't. It happens in middle age.

>>16495204
LOL incel cope.
Plenty of animals have sex for pleasure. Dolphins and bonobos spring immediately to mind.

>>16490422
Psychoanalysis and it’s offshoot “analytical” (Jungian) psychology are, to be as charitable as possible, just philosophy.
My brother-in-law has tried them for years and spent tons of money and hasn’t help him at all.
Sure philosophy can help you in some ways, but there are far better philosophers than Freud and Jung.
Try cognitive-behavioral psychology, it’s the only evidence-based approach.

>>16497570
You're trash and your existence should be a secret.

>>16500154
>another godtard contributes to the thread

>>16503861
Freud was a dirty old man whose work only amounts to a footnote in Jung's canon.

>>16490865
Freud was a hack who thought he knew everything about the human mind (literally talked about wanting to set up a plaque in his home that said something along the lines of "here Freud uncovered the secrets of dreaming") by ironically falling prey to his own ideas and projecting his own insecurities onto others, some of his ideas are important but much of it was pseud bullshit
worth reading some of though, especially as a primer before going into Jung who admitted that all his ideas were just his theories, but his theories were much more interesting and better thought out than Freud's

>>16502918
That can simply be regular social anxiety.

Ultimately the only thing that will work will be gradual exposure to what makes you uncomfortable. Even if you work out some issues with a psychiatrist the problem won't really go away until you confront them neurologically in real life situations

>>16502918
So what I mean by that is that even if your current situation is "aw shit I can't find girls", you'll necesarily have to play all the cards in your hand if this is an issue you really want to fix. Not just complain about your current situation but look at every possible solution that might be available to you, every possible opportunity you could think of or try harder at the openings you already have

Your problem isn't going to go away on its own is what I'm saying (barring some unpredictable event)

>>16501808
Don’t know if you’re still here anon but I’m going to add my two cents about you from what I’ve read thus far.

You seem to have a deep seated insecurity that you would much rather repress of yourself then to bring it forward and acknowledge it. To me, this issue deals with passivity in your masculine role in dating and sex. How is is that you’re texting these girls and they’re always ghosting your? Perhaps it’s because you aren’t direct enough. Never tell a girl “I want to come over and fuck you” but rather add plausible deniability while still being direct such as “maybe you’re lonely and need company?” Things of that nature.

The girl at the gym, who took the initiative and asked for your number, then stuck her pussy in your face. The type of energy you should feel in that situation is that she wants you and you want her. You need to act out on that. She wasn’t ashamed that you got a boner. She was ashamed that you didn’t act out on it. There’s an underlying issue as to why you aren’t acting out on it, and it something that requires a great deal of introspective thinking.

I was once in a similar situation as you and perhaps this story can help your predicament. When I really started working out and finding myself as a man, one of my sisters friends got really into me. Our entire family would tease us about it and she was practically throwing herself at me. She was a BEAUTIFUL women, and I couldn’t believe a women like this would want me. But I fucked it up. I couldn’t believe it. I treated her like shit, like she wasn’t worthy, I was a huge ass to her and of course she got disinterested in me because of it. I couldn’t understand why it ended like that. Eventually I came to realize it was due in part to my own insecurities. Particularly, she represented to me, in my mind, everything that I wasn’t when I was in middle/high school. You see, my sister was extremely popular and hung out with spoiled rich kids who drove range rovers and Audi’s in high school. It’s easy to see that and think negatively of these people and project your own insecurities onto them. This girl, being my sisters friend, was a walking projection of those insecurities I held about myself. So I treated her like shit, despite the fact that I would have loved to date such a beautiful girl. I did a lot of coping with this such as “well she’s braindead, I wouldn’t want her anyways” that essentially was just sour grapes. It wasn’t until I truly confronted the issue that I was then able to grow from it.

What I’m trying to get at with this story is that to confront your insecurities is hard, it’s something that naturally wants to be repressed, and it takes a great deal of introspective thinking to accomplish. You should focus on why you have troubles with being passive, and throw yourself in more situations so you can look to fix this issue.

>>16505543
Yeah these things all have something about “specialness” in common.


I recommend reading the psychoanalyst Kohut. He has an idea about the self, “you”, aways looking foreword selfobjects, like piaget to grow onto.

And these selfobjects (read:people, books sometimes, be creative about it) usually inform you of two messages. They are; “you are awesome, and I adore you,” speaking to the baby, and also, “you are awesome and I want to be part of you,” speaking AS the baby.

If you don’t have people in your childhood helping you feel these sentences, like a good mom and dad, you never get the real story here!

That you are not awesome! In fact the parents failure to constantly present these messages and then to love you and show you in caring gentle ways we all fail to meet these levels of AWESOME, cool your temperament.

That sour grapes thing probably came from those women activating your specialness complex.

Also think about who gets attention and who gets love and who gets invited to activities in a simple minded way. That is, the special or awesome get invited.

These humiliations that do not line up with the myth of awesomeness cause cos rant pain and reduce you on the social hierarchy.

It takes time to rewrite yourself out of this loop of being passed over for being “special”, then humiliated, then you act out in a way you are not aware of since you meet your projections rather than craft them.

Thus you must as an adult decathect your affect of needing reinforcement that you are special.

It should be slightly a feeling of embarrassment that you are looking for baby like affirmation at all times, yet know that we all are.

We are learning how to find new ‘selfobjects’ and learning how to tolerate not actually being awesome special like how we are raised or in some cases neglected and not told, just instead for special we are just cared for, by ourself (which is good enough) or through struggle with others.

Sorry if this is a mess

>>16505543
Oh I've definitely introspected on this for awhile and I believe the genealogy of my passiveness comes from my mother. My parents are both odd people and my mother is a very quick to anger person who likes things done a certain odd way and starts yelling when they don't go that way, and unfortunately I think this subconsciously colored my whole relationship with women in general. The easiest way for me to avoid being yelled at as a child was to take 0 initiative because my natural instinct to do things a certain way was never aligned with the way she wanted them done and it would always just end up in my getting screamed at. This way of thinking didn't start to fade until I was living on my own at college.

That said, trying to be more aggressive in pursuing women in the current climate is kind of sketchy. Every girl I've ever gone on dates with has described herself as a feminist but then they expect me to act super aggressive and it's really fucking confusing. I don't want to get accused of rape. My buddy in college hooked up with a girl who was cheating on her bf (he didn't know) and the next day she was telling people he raped her when he clearly did not. Luckily the other girls in our group told her she's straight lying. I don't want to end up like that because she could have fucked him hard with that fake accusation if she wanted to.

>>16505497
Sure that's why I made accounts for apps like Tinder and Hinge despite never having really used social media but that's not really leading anywhere. I don't really know what I can do or where I can go to be in situations similar to college where I was just naturally around girls my age.

>>16506182
Thanks for the suggestion. Sounds interesting, will have to give Kohut a read one of these days
>>16507686
I get it. Believe me, I know those feels bro. I am the same age as you and been through nearly identical situations in my life. Even the relationship I have with my mother is similar to yours. Sometimes I feel as if Aphrodite has personally put a curse on me.

It is very difficult taking the active role in dating. The world has changed so much and so suddenly that the older generation just can’t understand it. We are expected to dance like a monkey and feel as if one wrong step and we get thrown out to get replaced by another monkey in a line of thousands of other monkeys. It’s exhausting. There’s nothing beautiful about feeling expendable. And we are expected to act perfectly normal, like it’s not bothering us at all, as if it’s ridiculous to even question it. The anxiety only seems to grow the more the clock ticks. I get it, don’t worry.

At the end of the day, never be too hard on yourself. Hating who you are will only make you fall into your vices. Instead of looking at failed oppurtunities as a fuck up, being embarrassed about it and hating yourself for it, shift your perspective so you look at it as a learning experience to grow from.

What has always helped me was really taking the time to better myself. Reading, working out, learning an instrument, volunteering at food banks, managing my finances, cooking etc. in this way you are your own man. You decide your own destiny. it helps you find your worth in life. It helps you smile back at your reflection in the mirror.

Never try to lie or put on a facade to land a relationship. It won’t be worth it. Really this boils down to not so much a need for lust, but a want for love. I’m rather intuitive and some what “soft” for a male. I work as a paramedic because I enjoy helping people and spend a lot of my time volunteering at animal shelters. I sometimes feel as if this softness has hindered my chance with women, but I’ve made the decision that I’m not going to change myself or put on any persona for a fucking women. Fuck that. It might work for a quick fuck but those feelings always fade.

Continue working on yourself bro. Never stop improving yourself. Work on yourself and be kind to people along the way, and through that, we will both make it.

>>16507686
>Oh I've definitely introspected on this for awhile and I believe the genealogy of my passiveness comes from my mother. My parents are both odd people and my mother is a very quick to anger person who likes things done a certain odd way and starts yelling when they don't go that way, and unfortunately I think this subconsciously colored my whole relationship with women in general. The easiest way for me to avoid being yelled at as a child was to take 0 initiative because my natural instinct to do things a certain way was never aligned with the way she wanted them done and it would always just end up in my getting screamed at. This way of thinking didn't start to fade until I was living on my own at college.
HOLY SHIT ANON, I'm sorry but this mirrors my situation a lot that it's perplexing to me.
I'm sadly back living with my mother but when i did lived on my own even though i my life routine didn't changed a lot (it did just not a whole different life) i improved in physique/stress and felt just better, it's weird because most of the time we just ignore one another but her presence is just not welcome for me unconsciously.
She doesn't do that shit anymore, but when i was a kid/pre-teen my mother did a lot of that.
By the way she's a single mother so maybe that explains that behaviour of her.

>>16504692
you need go grow up a little more, anon
>>16504715
you have that backward, Jung is completely forgettable but Freud's contributions have and will continue to shape the future of the human condition