/lit/ - Literature

King Lear
Hamlet
King Henry IV part one
Macbeth
The Tempest

>>16515735
>Titus Andronicus
Yeah you're an idiot.

>Shakespeare
La garrapata de Cervantes habrás querido decir, macho

>>16515791
>Not liking Titus Andronicus
Yeah you're a plebian of the highest order

>>16515780
>The Tempest
Patrician choice although I personally like it above Henry IV part one

>>16515839
It's really awful as a play and plotted poorly. It's juvenilia. It is his worst play. You onlu pretend to praise it because it's on some /lit/ chart for dark and violent literature. You're the plebeian.

>>16515922
>Y-Y-You only like it because /lit/ put it on a chart
I think it's a great character study. One that people simply dislike because "muh violence". I'm sorry you got filtered by it. But keep parroting what random 17th and 18th century critics said

>>16515988
I never said anything about it being bad for the violence. Keep building strawmen and being amazed at yourself when you blow them down. Have a nice day, retard.

>>16515996
>I never said anything about it being bad for the violence
I never said you did. Don't get defensive.
>Keep building strawmen and being amazed at yourself when you blow them down
What are you on about?
>Have a nice day, retard.
Keep seething

>>16516018
>One that people simply dislike because "muh violence". I'm sorry you got filtered by it. But keep parroting what random 17th and 18th century critics said
oh really? care to explain the connection between these two sentences??? Or what I am parroting?

>>16516018
>>16515988

3rd Party says you're the bitch.

>>16515839
>>16515988
>>16516018
It's not even written by Shakespeare. It was written by George Peele. It's merely "attributed" to Shakespeare. This is why the play sucks and is written poorly. Shakespeare did not write this long sheaf of toilet paper.

1. Merry Wives of Windsor
2. Troilus and Cressida
3. Edward III
4. The Two Noble Kinsmen
5. Pericles

>>16516061
Seconded

Henry IV part 1
Richard III
MacBeth
Hamlet
Fiddler on the Roof

>>16515735

1: Julius Caeser
2: Two Gentleman of Verona
3: Much Ado About Nothing
4: The Tempest
5: Hamlet

>>16515735
In my mind Hamlet, Macbeth, and King Lear vie for the #1 spot. Othello and Merchant of Venice are in the next tier. Of the under-read ones I really like Timon of Athens and Measure for Measure.

>>16515735
In order, top to bottom, Caesar, Antony/Cleo, Midsummer, Hamlet, Titus Andronicus

>>16516333
I agree that Measure for Measure is probably the best underrated/least discussed.

>>16515735
I've never understood the hype behind king Lear, but it's Shakespeare so I'm always open to hearing what I missed.

1. Hamlet
2. Julius Caesar
3. Midsummer night's dream
4. Tempest
5. Macbeth

>>16515735
1. King Lear
2. Hamlet
3. Macbeth
4. Measure For Measure
5. A Midsummer Night's Dream
3. Hamlet
4. Macbeth

>>16516569
Sorry for the typo; disregard the bottom two entries.

>>16515735
>Julius Caesar
>Richard II
>Macbeth
>Antony and Cleopatra
>King Lear

>>16516545
The hype of King Lear in my opinion is strictly regulated the the 3rd and 4th act. Reading Lear amongst the personal and physical storm is great dramaturgy; furthermore the final act is a great tragedy, and Leers lines as he begs for one to notice his “her eyes!” Is one of the more powerful lines in his oeuvre.

In no particular order;
Antony and Cleo
Midsummer
King Lear
Hamlet
Tempest

>>16515735
1.Julius Caesar
2.The Tempest
3.Hamlet
4.Macbeth
5.Merchant of Venice

>>16516061
>>16516227
Samefagging
>>16516064
Keep seething anon
>>16516032
You have the same opinions that people during that era liked to spout at the time.

>>16515735
No, anon. First critic anon's marginally correct, although I don't think you're necessarily an idiot. The mistake is having made the bold but plausible choice of making Othello your #2, and then blowing it by making Titus your #3. Had you made Measure for Measure your #3 instead you would have communicated your full Patrician's awareness that Othello and Measure are in fact complementary plays, the former reads like the lushest of comedies (certainly the most aesthetic play linguistically) but winds up a tragedy, whereas the latter reads like the starkest of the tragedies, a tragedy of errors aiw, but winds up becoming a ridiculous, perhaps the most ridiculous, comedy; also Measure's far superior as a play than woeful Titus.
By choosing Titus then you not only made what may be described as a 'hipster move,' but (by doing so) rendered your making Othello your #2 questionable..
Also Coriolanus isn't even the best Roman play-- both Antony and Cleopatra and Julius Caesar are superior.
Live and learn!

>>16516287
Tradition!

>>16516151
Extremely based
>>16516287
>Fiddler on the Roof
kek
>>16516333
I really enjoy Timon of Athens
>>16516352
Good picks
>>16516545
Nice
>>16516569
Measure For Measure above Midsummer? Bold yet based choice
>>16516595
I've always found Richard II to be underrated
>>16516713
>>16516722
Both nice choices

>>16516888
This entire post is a cope. I find Titus and Coriolanus to be plays filled with a bunch of merit and have caused personal enjoyment for me. I enjoy Measure For Measure as well. No amount of complaining about Titus is going to change my opinion

>>16516151
based and shit pilled

Say what you will about Titus the play, but the film adaptation is brilliant. The themes of war’s absurdity and revenge’s toll on the seeker are played out so well amidst this lush mise-en-scène combining visual references from across history, from Ancient Rome to Italian Futurism.

>>16516981
>cope
assumes I care, anon..
No need to wriggle around like a caught out little fish

>>16517000
>No need to wriggle around like a caught out little fish
Can you guys really not defend yourselves without throwing insults?

>>16517016
Pardon? Anon speaks of 'a bunch of merits' without deigning to describe a single one; anon was presented with a pointed argument that he did not deign to respond to; further, anon himself made this thread one of evaluating 'patricianhood' as opposed to 'taste'. Given that, and given OP's complete failure to present *any* argument 'wriggling around' is as bland as it gets on this board, and you know it. Was I supposed to present the banausic 'dilate' to his plebian 'cope'?

>>16515735
>1. King Lear
Pathetic. Raped in the fucking face by Kurosawa's transvestite version. And I'm not even talking about the mummery or shadow plays that Kurosawa engages in. I'm talking pure script. Kurosawa worked Shakespeare inside out. And then he face fucked him.

As an avid plagiarist Shakespeare would have approved. Also when he saw the play was better…

>2. Othello
Meh. Italio-Moore exoticism murder porn. Try Merchant of Venice for the REAL SHIT.

>3. Titus Andronicus
Good man.

>4. As You Like It
Meeeehhhhh. Romeo and Juliet is a better comedy.

>5. Coriolanus
I'd rather watch Brecht's version. I'd rather watch Peter Weiss' [didn't write a version] version. I'd rather watch Dario Fo's [didn't write a version] version.


Let's pull the buttplug out with one swift drag:

1) Richard III: A tragedy.
2) Romeo & Juliet: A comedy.
3) Can Dialectics Break Bricks: A comedy.
4) Titus Andronicus. Exceeds all boundaries of Genre, but frankly lacking in shock factor, needed more gore.
5) Controversial, but important due to its flaws, its severe flaws, Hamlet.

1. Macbeth
2. King Lear
3. Titus Andronicus
4. Julius Caesar
5. Twelfth Night

>>16515922
>You're the plebeian.
Sir, I am not only plebeian, I am a proletarian.

Would you like to buy a child?

>>16516996
Has a great soundtrack too

>>16515735
1. Julius Caesar
2. Antony and Cleopatra
3. Henry VI Trilogy
4. Coriolanus
5. The Taming of the Shrew

>>16515735
1. Romeo & Juliet

>>16518507
>4. Coronavirus
?

>>16515735
1.Othello
2.Romeo & Juliet
3. ...
4. ...
5. ...
>reading Shakespeare voluntarily

>>16517493
>In the midst this brown tsunami a bandana'd frog with idiot grin vommits ritual suicide
was this intended?

Macbeth
Othello
Henry IV I
Henry IV II
Midsummer

>>16518695
?

>Haha what if I don’t put in Hamlet, Macbeth or King Lear...will I get called based? It’s almost too twisted to go through with...

>>16515735
>Coriolanus
absolutely based

>>16518764
We're sitting here on vent and playing a little dota.

A Midsumer Night's Dream
Romeo and Juliet
Hamlet
Twelfth Night
The Taming of the Shrew

> Comedies
1. Measure for Measure
2. Much Ado
3. Twelfth Night
4. Midsommar
5. Shrew

> Tragedies
1. Hamlet
2. Macbeth
3. Romeo and Jules
4. Lear
5. Othello

>>16517059
You guys have done nothing except say it sucked and OP was an idiot. And again you have not defend your arguments without throwing around insults. And what argument was presented? Unless in your mind you think calling the play stupid is a "pointed" argument. Get over yourselves

>>16518507
>>16518820
>>16520430
>>16520474
Nice

1. Cardenio
2. Love's Labour's Won

Everything else is shit compared to these.

>>16522251

>>16515812
BASADO

>>16515735
you knew what you were doing when you started this thread.

none, i hate shakespeare

>>16515735
What is this, shake-a-spear amateur hour?
Ehem, the definitive list:
1.) Hamlet (obviously)
2.) Merchant of Venice
3.) LLL
4.) The Tempest
5.) Midsommar (brilliant lighting)

>>16515812
the master

>>16522324

>>16516064
>implying William Shakspeare wrote any plays

>>16520251
Long distance dedication: All's Well That Ends Well

Twelfth Night
Taming of the Shrew
Merchant of Venice
Richard II
Antony and Cleopatra

>>16522206
This
>>16516888
Received
>>16516981
And got this
>>16517000
What's your problem now? Or do you just not bother reading before making posts?

>>16523534
A mighty soul

>>16516697
Thanks for the tip I'll give it a second look

>>16523575
How is >>16522206 wrong? You have not said one thing to prove it wrong.

>>16523845
Read the OP
Were it a matter of taste, ok, I'd let it pass.. so what
But that's not what OP asked for..
Do you now understand? I very reasonably, and very lightly, argue WHY his selected five are dubiously 'patrician' and he spams me an answer and you cry foul. I was even polite. So what gives?

>>16515735
Caesar
Othello
Macbeth
R&J
Taming of the Shrew

>>16522625
Why don't the mods ban Black Hebrew Israelites?

>>16524170
>I very reasonably, and very lightly, argue WHY his selected five are dubiously 'patrician'
What you did was praise Measure for Measure and talk about how Titus is inferior to it. And then claimed Coriolanus wasn't as good as your favorite roman plays.
>Were it a matter of taste
OP said post YOUR top 5. It didn't say post the objective top 5. Even so, it is an inherently subjective argument. You're trying to make an objective argument out of something subjective
>I was even polite.
I find it it highly unlikely you used hipster as anything other than an insult.

>>16524327
I didn't 'praise' Measure-- I said Othello and Measure were complementary, i.e. inverted versions of one another -- which you clearly do not understand.
Your same fagging's become tiresome, anon. I'm sorry one so sensitive lacks a fundamental inability to read.

>>16524419
>the former reads like the lushest of comedies (certainly the most aesthetic play linguistically)
>This isn't praise
Come on anon.

>>16524431
That's for Othello, anon
It really *does* read like a comedy; no other work by Shakespeare is so 'lushly' composed (not even Antony and Cleopatra in despite of Enobarbus)---which is why I can *buy* someone selecting it as his, or her, number 2. Most (it seems) are so solely focused on the potential for racial aspects in this play of love needlessly gone wrong that this major element is COMPLETELY missed. Othello is an aesthetic wonder, but who preaches it? Not someone who chooses Titus Andronicus as his number 3.
Let's get one thing straight--- there are plenty of defensible top 5's presented in this thread, some even admirable. Did I present one myself? No. But had I done so I would not have included Measure for Measure among them. I just used that play as a 'for instance' --a defensible number 3 that would have thoroughly justified his making Othello his #2.
In fact, the only one of his plays that I would have chosen for myself had I made a contribution is As You Like It. This doesn't mean however that I think Lear and Othello an unworthy #1 or 2-- they are. Get it? A 'patrician' is going to display his 'uniqueness' through the choices he makes; these choices will display a certain defensible aesthetic or obscured thematic interest or etc. OP makes some good choices himself but then he fouls them by being either too obviously contrarian or too willingly seduced by a movie that made clever use of an obviously inferior play.
But be honest, *is* Titus a better play than either Antony and Cleopatra or Julius Caesar? I ask because along with Coriolanus it too is one of Shakespeare's Roman plays..

>>16524873
Julius Caesar is more than a bit of a joke. It fails in its intrigues. It is like watching Oceans 11 and instead of the heist he goes down the shop to buy a long neck. With one guy, who quite frankly is only there with him to buy smokes. That's what Julius Caesar gives us. In comparison Coriolanus bites hard on the plebeian issues and asks what are the correct roles for the aristocrat. In comparison Julius Caesar is just name dropping.

Titus relies on gore. But the gore works, and works well. The frankly absurd plot works because we're here to watch Texas Chainsaw Massacre: The Romaning, and you can get away with looser plotting and characters when you're just going to coat the walls with blood.

Your criticism of OP is of course correct. However, the dankness of Othello's language doesn't in any way make up for the ridiculous villain in what is meant to be a hubris tragedy. "Oh no, I believed a deceptive follower." Weak. About as fucking weak as writing MacBeth about Lord MacBeth, not Lady MacBeth. It'd be as if the play were Jason instead of Medea.

>>16525071
Well, as I said, I wouldn't have included Othello in my own 5 but would accept it in another's that showed susceptibility to pretty language or counter-intuitive structure (or whatever else an anon could render plausible through his other selections).
I like how you present Titus as a kind of prophecy of the modern deadness of sensibility; it probably works better now than it ever has before; in a few years it'll probably be the *only* S play anyone watches.
I think your wrong about Caesar. The intrigues are as pre-known there as Crecy is in HV so what every schoolboy knows every schoolboy knows, there can be no doubt about what must happen or who all's involved ftm. Otherwise it's one of his more stylized plays, the speeches and mob scenes are brilliant, and the dynamic between a guilt-ridden Hamlet (B) and a political Judas (C) is at least interesting. This would take far too long to defend, however.
Surprised at your take on Coriolanus. It's way too long, linear, fateful, boring. That a smug little mama's boy has an athletic talent but lays it aside not for Rome but 'for mama' in the end -so the fuck what. I hate that play.
Good post, anon. Thanks.

>>16525302
Honestly Coriolanus reads like "James I is coming, just calm down and get used to it, chaos is a bad thing."

>>16525431
I don't know. Why do you think? Coriolanus comes a few years after his accession and for whatever murmuring James (that initial, physical embodiment of Union) did inherit a stable situation. I am aware of his 'piety,' his book on witches.. his dubious sexuality, etc. I also know that the Gunpowder Plot occurred about the time Coriolanus was composed, if not a year or two after. Also, being one of his last tragedies and himself rather old and 'wise' at that time why would Shakespeare have felt the need to issue what in effect would be warning? What suggests this to you?

Bump for based coffee and honey imbibing Kiwis