/lit/ - Literature

He wouldn't have wanted the prize. It's Western and awarded by a liberal-minded organization, Mishima was against what it stands for.

Nobels are largely awarded to liberal humanists. Speaking to 'la condition humaine'.

>>16552871
Keyword: largely

Largely =/= always, so don't come at me with Yeats or whatever that Serb is called.

>>16552856
B-bros, what if his fake coup attempt had actually worked and started a nationalist revolution in Japan on Nov. 25, 1970? With Mishima being installed as the head of a military government rooted in poetry and samurai principles? W-why can’t I live in that timeline, anons?

>>16552856
He didn't need some shitty award, and most people reject his ideology.

>>16552856
Why would he? He is the anathema to what they usually reward.

>>16552856
I don't think you understand how the Nobel Prize works

>>16552856
>Nobel Prize
Because it is a 'group think' prize. If it wasn't for the money, who would want one? The whole organization has prostituted itself for decades. Obama's peace prize was just the turd on an already large pile of turds.

>>16552884
>why can't I live in a timeline where millions of Japanese soldiers die pointlessly and Japan gets burned to the ground and nuked again
gee I wonder why most people didn't want that

>>16552856
because he was quite literally a nationalist faggot

>>16552923
nationalist isn't a problem, you can be nationalist and liberal
he was nationalist and fascist

>>16552856
He was nominated but stepped down to increase the chances of Kawabata receiving it

why did they never give him the title of restorer of civilisation if he truly deserved it?

>>16552924
>fascist
>problem
You're even gayer than Mishima was.

>>16552884
>With Mishima being installed as the head of a military government rooted in poetry
how to get japan raped in 1 week - step 1

>>16552949
I meant a problem for the Nobel organization, retard. There's no problem with fascism as long as you're okay with, you know, getting murdered because made fun of the great leader's haircut, sent to die in Stalingrad, country nuked, etc.

>>16552975
>getting murdered because made fun of the great leader's haircut
I would actually prefer that over getting murdered for saying nigger

>>16552884
What I don't get is why they just laughed at my boy. LAUGHED and RIDICULED. How was the military so castrated that they laugh at a man pouring his soul out giving a passionate nationalist speech?

>>16552987
>why they just laughed at my boy
because he was laughable, he was a manlet, he was gay, his idea wouldn't work and was 100% wishful thinking, and he wasn't sane, which is evidenced by what he did afterward

>>16552884
Zengakuren nuclear chimpout

>>16552987
it was already to late... the americans had already put onions in their water and their women in the whore house. they gave them a practical avenue to mediocrety, and after the war, they took it. anything else seemed infantile and idealist. like a childs fantasy.

>>16552924
and also a manlet. i forgot to mention that. no one likes a nationalist faggot manlet.

>>16552987
Imagine if Ezra Miller started writing novels, picked up lassoing or some retarded American 'sport', started weight lifting and 10 years later tried to strike a coup by taking West Point or some military base with his gay lover.

Who the fuck would take him seriously lmao

>>16553032
Ezra Miller isn't a Nobel Prize nominated writer. He isn't a nationalist, an ultraconservative, or a fascist. That analogy is stupid. You're stupid.

>>16553032
kek

>>16553032
>t. has never read Mishima and been moved by the capivating jewel-like brilliance and beauty of his words

>>16552884
anyone got information on the art piece to the left?

>>16552856
The only Japanese Nobel laureate I've read is Kuwabata, and I found his work horribly dull. I haven't actually read Mishima; is he really worse, or does the Nobel committee just have bad taste? Or both?

Friendly reminder Mishima's peak popularity in /lit/ was in 2018, same year famous Youtuber Pewdiepie mentioned him in a video.

>>16553041
Ah, yes, I'm sure the grunts or officers knew all those facts about Mishima.
>>16553061
When I first read him, you probably were still in high school feeling edgy for typing the n word in Minecraft or some shit.
His personna is oddly interesting, like a trainwreck full of clowns and orphaned babies, but his political views are retarded.

>>16553089
>Ah, yes, I'm sure the grunts or officers knew all those facts about Mishima.
I mean, he was a famous writer before television, so yeah, more than likely. I get that he and his political beliefs hurt your faggy little feels but denying reality only makes you look like an imbecile.

>>16553130
How exactly did TV make Mishima into a celebrity?
Please don't tell me in your power fantasies, random military men read literary fiction and know the authors because that would be really pathetic.

>>16553032
>him

>>16553072
literally in any convenient store in Asia

Most faggots here don't know anything with muh nationalism nonsense. In reality it was essentially a coin toss between Kawabata and Mishima and the former ended up winning.

>>16552856
They thought he was a communist or a far right-winger, depending who you ask, and Kawabata forced him to write a note to the judges supporting his candidacy in return for his help in a legal dispute.

>>16553089
>His personna is oddly interesting, like a trainwreck full of clowns and orphaned babies
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fzeDMucobhk
I disagree, but Paul Schrader puts it better than I could.

>>16553089
>>16553434
to summarize, you're understating Mishima's life and death by viewing it as a comedy of errors, a "trainwreck". There was certainly carnage and chaos at the end, with his beheading being botched, but he successfully turned his entire life into a work of stageplay:
He wrote the script, he chose the set, he even selected the actors and designed the costumes (for the Shield Society). His life's climax was equal-parts megalomaniacal and pathetic: by doing so he terminated his life in a brilliant harmony, and became the ultimate incarnation of his work. Some artists are hypocrites or insincere loudmouths, and nobody on earth embodied the opposite of that more than mishima.

>>16553197
I'd fuck it

>>16553481
So basically he was a pseud who sincerely believed his own bullshit.

>>16552856
he was nominated once

>>16553623
Soijak

>>16552865
Cope. He wanted it and was always seeking for validation from the West.

>>16553623
impressive bait bro

>>16552856
He was a fascist proto-chud

>>16552948
This man terrifies me. He is the father of modern france.
Think degeneracy, depravity and 20th century french intellectuals wont be far behind.

I really he would have let things be.

>>16552865
Lmao, he would have killed for the prize.
He always held western literature and art in high standards, even if he turned to Japanese traditionalism he could never truly part ways with the West.

>>16552995
retard

>>16553076
Kawabata isn’t dull just very subtle, unironically filtered

>>16553481
good post
Schrader's film emphasizes this connection between his life and his theatrical creation. it was a joy to see it on 35mm with the director in attendance right before covid hit.

>>16555695
having a hard time finding this film available for streaming, illegal or legal.
no, i dont want to download it and then delete the movie from my computer. i just want to watch it. anyone know any streaming sites that offers Mishima Life in Four (Channel) Chapters?

>>16552987
Today I'll remind people that the military wasn't present during the attempted coup by Mishima.
The people who "mocked" him were civilian servants who served foods and cleaned the facility. The army was training in the woods that day

>>16555840
>bantzed by janitors
Oh no no no no no

>>16552856
>Fascist LARPer commits sudoku
>Why didn't they give him the Nobel Prize???

>>16555840
>The army was training in the woods that day
kek

>>16555706
criterion

>>16553032
god that would be so fucking hot nnnngh

>>16552856
Stalin and Hitler were nominees for the Nobel prize, and Obama got it just for being black. Think about that.

>>16553032
This. It's almost like you need political connections and power to do something like that. Of course these guys will get laughed at, they have no chips to compete with.

he was pretty much a xenophobic dick....then he killed himself when he was much younger than recipients usually are.

op is a fag

>>16552856
Kawabata deserved it.

>>16556382
>ezra miller
>lifting weights
shit taste Anon, he's hottest as a skeletal andro bitch boi.

>>16555840
Why would there be hundreds of clerks all dressed in different branches of the military lmao
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EDNjK6LnW0Y

>>16552884
The point wasn't to succeed, he always knew how it was going to end.

Read Henry Scott Stokes work on his life

>>16556783
ngl, most of the military are actually glorifed paperpushers and janitors in uniform

>>16552856
Nobel prize committee is literally a group of 18 swedes who are members of the SWEDISH Academy (experts supposedly in the swedish language).

All it takes is a majority vote or 10 people to decide who gets the award. Why do people make such a big deal about what ten swedes think?

Read the bios of these people. Some of them have no qualifications at all. One guy in the academy now is just a lawyer and he's going to be in the academy his whole life (lifetime appointments).

Another guy in the past was best buddies with somebody he gave the award to (refused to recuse himself).

Want to win a Nobel prize? Move to stockholm for a season and make some friends.

>>16552911
>>why can't I live in a timeline where millions of Japanese soldiers die pointlessly and Japan gets burned to the ground and nuked again
Well, why can’t we? Mishima loved death and violence, it would be kino

>In 2014, Mishima was one of the inaugural honourees in the Rainbow Honor Walk, a walk of fame in San Francisco's Castro neighbourhood noting LGBTQ people who have "made significant contributions in their fields."
Would he have been pleased by this?

>>16552856
The Nobel prize is just a political award that certain political cliques give each others. Same with every other award: Academy Award, (non-military) national merits and so on. Some awards are more obvious (and embarrassing) in that regard than others.

They are absolutely meaningless and only represent the best within a small bubble, not more.

>>16557898
Pleased by people acknowledging his life and work as a significant accomplishment? Yeah.
Pleased by the western lgbt community (especially with the immense fuckery they pride themselves on representing) ackowledging him only because he happened to be gay? No.
Doesn’t seem like he would like those people, and doesn’t seem like he would have wanted people acknowledging him for one private part of his life which was frankly not even a decision of his anyway.

>>16552884
He did it just to have excuse to slit his own belly open.

It was a sexual thing.

>>16554909
>filtered
Nobody who's capable of backing up their opinions uses this meme, anon. It's even weaker than
>chad [thing I like]
>virgin [thing I don't like]
Kuwabata's work is bland and utterly devoid of substance. He'd wouldn't be known internationally if he were held to the same standards as western authors.

>>16553400
I mean you would think someone so obsessed with beauty would have a refined selection of prints . unless all his photo ops are as shallow as that st.sebastian one

>>16552884
tfw
what is wrong with nationalism anyway? i want a very japanese, strong japan and a very italian, strong italy and a very french, strong france and a very indian, strong india and a very german, strong germany, etc. what the hell is wrong with that? why is everything a copy+paste globalized mush of grey corporatism? it's the destruction of diversity and the destruction of beauty and pride. imagine, it didn't have to be this way. we could have lived in a world of aesthetic beauty and cultural passion. instead we get starbucks, mcdonalds, and post-modernist abominations of grey slabs and kindergarten-cut cubism. were that men were men and women women we could find the best of each and lead a march towards the emphasis of beauty of form, strength of character, and idealism. instead we get gender fluidity and eternalized victim complexes, elevation of weakness and disease, paintings of horror and ugliness as the intentional destruction of art in all forms. is such a world even worth living in for a literary man? modern sentiments, the globalised liberal rot, are the refusal of truth, the blemishing of beauty, the blighting of health, the crumbling of foundation, the erasure of heritage, and they cast us all as penitives down into dante's inferno along with all the boiling, festering, gangrenous body fluids and foul substances that come packaged with this brave new horror.

Was not Mishima correct?

>>16559691
These are just fancy buzzwords that amount to eventual wars of elimination between various groups, it is very typical for such fanciful ideals to be evoked without mentioning the direct mass carnage and murder that follows

Had WW2 been a war between competing fascists, there would be no japanese or germans left

>>16559691
Because a very Japanese Japan is not going to stay in its borders. The problem with being militaristic is that you eventually have to go out and have a war with someone, which in the current global climate will inevitably lead to the destruction of your nice little ethnostate.

>>16558393
how he do it?

>>16559703
absolute sjw college professor take

>>16559703
>>16559721
But even these things are abstractions from and ideal abstraction. Being strong and nationalistic does not necissarily mean militarily super duper aggressive and focused on conquest.

>>16559703
WWII was a war on false pretenses without justifiable reason, fueled by the poorly considered treaty that attempted to remedy the injuries of WWI, a likewise pointless war. No side won and all were ultimately destroyed. WWII was the final emasculation of human civilization brought about by the triflings of monetary compensation for the previous shitshow of catastrophic, aimless fervor. WWII was the echo of the death toll of WWI and not a single nation in the world survived it. Hop on a plane, land anywhere and blindly, and you wouldn't be able to surmise where you were. When everywhere is just alike there is no reason to go anywhere. When everyone must abide the same tight standards of progressivism, and they are ever-tightening, there is no reason to be anyone or do anything. In hoping to wipe away whatever they perceived as an injustice, they've only introduced a vague and omnipresent malaise, a dejected hopelessness the world over which is, thus, inescapable, and the injusticies they sought to eradicate were only form-shifted and magnified. In mistreating a papercut they introduced to the world a terminal sepsis.

>>16559745
>buzzword salad response

Lmao, do tell me what is stopping you from freely being an ideal man, no one is stopping you from reading, exercise etc.

>>16559703
>that amount to eventual wars of elimination between various groups
no

>>16559748
It kind of is, even nations on the smaller end like portugal continued to attempt this when given the chance, nationalism always leads to the hubris of starting conflict

>>16559760
I hope you realise this progressivism you detest was why the losers of ww2 were not herded into genocide

>>16559787
Yes

>>16559721
Must we halt Darwin's evolution, his survival of the fittest, because it offends our modern sensibilities? We doom only ourselves to degeneration, and in doing so form a self fulfilling prophesy. If we speak of natural progress, as opposed to the progressive's "progress", the only reason to halt it is the prior existence of a foregone conclusion that oneself would not be the survivor of the encounter. Fearing natural order is an admission of possessing the weakness that fails in natural order. We are persuaded, by the weak and dying, to die with them, and are deluded to think this is noble. It's a mockery of the nobility of life, it is a child's hysteric destruction of his own environment for a perceived slight upon himself. One who valued life would not thus destroy it and call it a celebration of human progress to march back into the primordial soup.

>>16559691
Poor Americans. They live in a society devoid of culture and they believe every other place on earth has sold every square inch to corporations and multiculturalism.

>>16559812
>i cannot refute him, so i shall slander him

so was he the top or the bottom

>>16559819
Okay, samefag

>>16555706
its on yt just got to search

>>16559760
Why do the likes of you want to model the world to their ideal image?
You are free enough to live according to the standars you set for yourself, why do you want other people to leave the way you deem worthy? Who de you think you are?

>>16559800
You are not noble or strong, you are just a faggot posting on an image board, online fascist are laughable.

>>16553076
It's Kawabata anon

>>16559691
Their modern diversity is a banal lockstep philosophy of the lowest common denominator. You are correct. Beauty and virility have gone the way of the dodo. One can only hope the narrative of victim hood backfires on all of them in destructive racial riots over Sour grapes. Wait ...

>>16559721
>Japanese Japan is not going to stay in its borders

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sakoku

>>16552884
Anon, it was just a symbolic and noble way to go out, nothing more. He himself didn't expect to inspire anything.

>>16552884
I have a theory that Mishima knew that his coup was destined to fail.

If you read all his works, you’ll find that he endlessly romanticized glory in death. He was a sickly youth and was unable to join the army, and yet he still wanted that “Glorious Death”. Committing the coup and ritualistically killing himself was a means of attaining that martyrdom.

>>16560911
>I have a theory that Mishima knew that his coup was destined to fail.
Well, that's why the suicide was rehearsed.

>>16560880
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_colonial_empire

>>16560931
I'm just saying that's possible for a "Japanese Japan" to stay in its borders for at least 200 years.

>>16559691
based

>>16560946
A Japanese Japan in the 17th century immersed in a feudal system has nothing to do with a Japanese Japan in contemporary times in a post fascist era.
You can wish all you want, but time is never going back to what it was and we are not in the nineteenth century when nationalism was viewed aas a way forward.
And I'm saying this while being antiglobalization myself.

>>16560911

Of course he knew his coup would fail. He planned everything, from the failure of his coup to his death. Read his novel "Yuukoku (Patriotism)", or watch the movie, it was simply a reharsal for his true death

>>16560959
My point is that a country can maintain its principles and culture without being violent toward others. I don't care about any -isms. I do allow for patriotism to enhance social cohesion, but I wouldn't go overboard with it.

Also, iirc Mishima himself wasn't apologetic about the excesses of Imperial Japan. However, one thing he did like about that time was the quasi spirituality and extreme sense of belonging, particularly during the peak of the war. That feeling is the essence of what he wished to replicate with the Emperor worship. It was something he felt was lost by the new Japan. This new Japan, as he saw it, was one now dominated by materialism.

If one gauges the essay the Japanese speaking anon posted on here a few weeks back "In Defense of Culture", I believe, then Mishima was pretty damn moderate and I would argue extremely milquetoast in his political beliefs. He was far from an actual fascist, much to the chagrin of some of his current followers.

>>16561006
It was the Anti Revolutionary Manifesto, actually. Correcting myself.

>>16561006
Exactly, Mishima's nationalism was spirituaal and was about revering the Emperor, not wanting Japan to have all of Asia or to forgive the war crimes

>>16561006
>My point is that a country can maintain its principles and culture without being violent toward others.
Eh, wasn't that time of isolation the time of so frequent Christian martyrdom in Japan? Nice non violence.

Nowadays, Japan is probably far from self sufficient, economically and industry wise. You can't just ban imports from China and South East Asia or you'd run out of computers, and the biggest chunk of cultural productions rely on computers, imported hardware and software. People would literally go insane because their anime is now more expensive or never releases on time.
To block all that shit you'd have to ban everything and cut all sea/air routes and cut the internet connections. Or increase the burocratic apparatus (ie a new China) in an ever expanding cycle doomed to collapse when there are no more resources left to cannibalize.

>>16561085
>Eh, wasn't that time of isolation the time of so frequent Christian martyrdom in Japan? Nice non violence.

I meant toward other countries, as in invading them. And let's be fair, your original point was "staying in its border". They did exactly that, for at least 200 years. About the Christians, though, now that you're talking about it. There was a complex web of political factors that led to their persecution. The Shogunate had no problem with them, initially. It was only after one of the Shoguns, forgot which, realized that Christianity was being used by the colonial powers (Spain, in specific) to subjugate nations. There were stories of slavery and such occurring in other parts of Asia at their hand. Oddly enough, it was English (or was it Dutch?) advisors who were telling this Shogun about these events and were happy about the persecution. I'm not saying the violence was in any way good, but that was their rationale.

>>16561085
And yes, it's obvious that isolationism wouldn't really work today for most countries, not without collapse. I wasn't making an argument for it, though.

>>16552987
They also couldn't really understand what he as saying. But yes, it is all very tragic

>>16561006
Of course Mishima is moderate nad has a nuanced view, to some extent every cultured person supporting an idea is the same. Carl Schmidt's thought and an SA recruit's thinking are miles apart even if the latter draws his inspiration from his distorted view of the former.
The God a redneck from Alabama and a cultured theologian worship are two very distinct entities, yet one is built upon the other.
The problem with Mishima's view is that mass ideologies cannot have nuance, the subtlety is lost in the masses, if you support unbridled nationalism the result will never be what some fringe philosophers/authors wanted to achieve, but whatever distorted mockery of it that reaches the public.

Do you think theJapanese peasant masses worshiping the Emperor in Mishima's projected Japan would be any better than the freedom of any person of today to read and reach their own conclussions? To read Mishima and worship if they wish or to not read at all if they want.
The practical implications of his aesthetic view of politics are just monstruous, but even that doesn't taint his beautiful writings.

>>16552911
>implying the US could afford to alienate Japan in the 70's
lmao, they would get wholehearted political support in return for counterweighting China and the USSR, just like the korean, indonesian and other asian dictatorships.

>tradionalist nationalist
>gays in the military

Thats what you get for being a fascist!

>>16552856
>>16552884
Damn the dude was pretty fucking hot.

>>16556783
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KgfMWVrB3ZA
Here's the real one

>>16553061
What edition of the Sea of Fertility is that? It looks amazing.

>>16559788
Read more, brainlet.

Thank got for the forbearance of those commies!
Can't forget the Morganthau plan.

The slaughter of eastern Germans, before, during and after the war, by Poles,
Chechs etc.
Thank god there was no genocide

>>16561006
>My point is that a country can maintain its principles and culture without being violent toward others.
What is the problem with that, even humoring you that it is true (which it is not. see: switzerland.)

>>16560843
>only people who agree with me can shape the world people like you need to live and let live
White liberal arrogance is unrivaled.

>>16562932
I already proved it to be true. I was talking about other countries in relation to borders. The other guy made a good point, though, about the masses. That's not one that is possible for me to address. I would've liked to know what Mishima would have had to say about that.

>>16552987
They didn’t want to get fucked up again, and I don’t blame them.

>>16563089
and why would it be a bad thing if a greater nation conquers its lessors?

>>16563176
Because people going to other countries to kill their men and rape their women is no bueno.
Do we have to go over the basics all over again?

>>16563176
You get the world as it is today.

>>16563189
the world as it is today was formed from the great nations voluntarily tying their own hands behind their backs. we've had both america and the british voluntarily give up land they previously conquered, just to play nice and reach for equity.

>>16552856
Donald Keene thought that it was because one of the Nobel Prize committee members was conservative and thought Mishima was mixed up in leftist protests in Japan. Ironic! One right-wing Dane fucked him!

>Again, in 1967, after I had unsuccessfully attempted to win the Formentor Prize for Mishima at an international gathering of publishers held in Tunis, a Swedish participant, a senior officer of the important publishing firm of Bonnier's, consoling me, said that Mishima would soon receive a much more important prize. That could only have been the Nobel Prize.

>What prevented Mishima from obtaining the prize? In May 1970 I had dinner with friends in Copenhagen. Among the guests was a Danish novelist whom I had met at the time of the 1957 Tokyo PEN Congress. On the basis of the two or three weeks he spent in Japan on that occasion, he had acquired the reputation in Scandinavia of an authority on Japan. He was in a jovial mood that evening and confided to us proudly that it was because of him that Kawabata had won the Nobel Prize. He said that in his capacity as an expert in such matters, he had been asked by members of the Nobel Prize committee to give them the benefit of his opinions on contemporary Japanese literature; the committee seems to have decided that a Japanese would receive the award in 1968. Although the novelist had read very little Japanese literature, this did not inhibit his judgments. As I was vaguely aware from our previous meeting, he was extremely conservative in his political outlook, and this colored his opinions on other subjects. The recent turbulence in Japanese universities, widely reported in the foreign press, had made him extremely suspicious of all young Japa-nese, and when asked about Mishima, he reasoned that Mishima, being young, must be a leftist. He therefore spoke out strongly against Mishima…

>>16561524
Not him but they're from Vintage's modern japanese classics series - I have some from a few different authors and they're all beautiful covers.

>>16563338
Spring Snow's cover sticks out like a sore thumb though and the third one is awful. I really hope they weren't all designed by the same person because they're an incohesive mess.
Also changing the position of the book title and author between books 1-2 and 3-4 is absolutely retarded.