/lit/ - Literature

>>16734154
You made this thread already dawg

>>16734218
Yeah, and...? Go fuck yourself chud.

>>16734154
Is that from vidya?

>>16734218
When?
>>16734235
This fucker is not me

>>16734258
Yes it is, from metal gear solid 2 fren, it's a good game

>>16734154
>What we propose to do is not to control content, but to create context.
Kojima-san stop being right!

>>16734342
Kek, you literally can't make this shit up.
What did Kojima and his writers read?

>>16734154
>Marshall McLuhan (Gutenberg Galaxy, The Medium is the Massage)
>Guy Debord, Society of the Spectacle
>Baudrillard, Simulacra and Simulation
>Adorno, The Culture Industry
>Walter Benjamin, The Work of Art in the Age of Mechanical Reproduction
>Slavoj Zizek, various esp. The Sublime Object of Ideology
>Ivan Illich
>Jacques Ellul, esp. "Propaganda"
>Edward Bernays, "Propaganda"

>>16734358
You forgot Can Dialectics Break Bricks the First Fully Detourned Feature Movie

I CAN CLAIM A MOVIE IS A BOOK BECAUSE I'M SITUATIONALIST.

>>16734358
Based

>>16734358
>Ivan Ilich
Do you mean the Tolstoy book? Why?

>>16734386
>Ivan Dominic Illich (/Jˈvɑːn ˈJlJtʃ/; 4 September 1926 – 2 December 2002) was a Roman Catholic priest, theologian, philosopher, and social critic.[1] His 1971 book Deschooling Society criticises modern society's institutional approach to education, an approach that allegedly constrains learning to narrow situations in a fairly short period of the human lifespan.
He's kind of a left/socially conscious Catholic in a lot of ways. He's not directly related to the topic, but Deschooling Society is a great book about the way the educational system is shit, and the ways education could be delivered in ways that don't add in all the extra ideological baggage of a system designed to train factory workers at the turn of the 20th century

>>16734401
Thanks fren

>>16734358
Fug I also forgot
>Chomsky and Herman, Manufacturing Consent
You might also enjoy
>Norbert Wiener, The Human Use of Human Beings

>>16734235
You need to talk to people irl more

>>16734287
MGS1 and 2 are fuckin awesome experiences, and great use of the medium to tell a story and send an important message.
I will always be convinced that the people who shit on video games have never played them, or only played them very minimally. It's like shitting on cinema, or music. How can someone completely discount an entire art form and still consider themselves a reasonable person?

>>16734733
>How can someone completely discount an entire art form and still consider themselves a reasonable person?
I dunno, performance art is pretty shit. It just seems like an excuse to act silly in public.

>>16734743
>performance art
Well, you got me there. I'm sure some people are really big fans of that, but I also just don't really get it.

>>16734342
By putting forth an idea into the stream of communications, you therefore plant the idea in people's minds. Regardless of whether or not they agree with the idea, they will hold onto to it subconsciously.
In other words, Kojima gave them this idea.

>>16734733
>I will always be convinced that the people who shit on video games have never played them, or only played them very minimally.
I've played far far too many of them growing up, and I can safely tell you video games are a shit medium for art.
>It's like shitting on cinema
A lifeless art.
>or music.
Peaked far too long ago, now it's just the noise equivalent of masturbation.
>How can someone completely discount an entire art form and still consider themselves a reasonable person?
The burden of producing great art falls upon you and so far video games haven't come close to providing genuine masterpieces. And I do mean masterpieces, not "the best games".
>>16734743
>>16734754
Wagner shits all over your electronic toys.

>>16734733
MGS3 is even better. The best vidya I ever played.

Not everyone on this board is a gatekeeping pseud. MGS2 is a good game. I can't help you though.

>>16735626
literal blockbuster sensationalist drivel. gamers truly are insipid.

>>16734938
>In other words, Kojima gave them this idea.
I think it's the other way around. I think Kojima has, in Jungian terms, an artistic intuition which gives him access to the collective unconscious. See how he made death stranding and a few months later coronameron happened.

>>16734154
lmao get the fuck out with your cringy videogames, fag

>>16735633
Mind you, I don't think any videogame so far has been comparable to any high-art of the past, but I believe at least a few video games (including Kojima's) were able to rise above most of the consumerist commercialized garbage that today's culture tends to produce.

>>16735660
MGS3 is Quentin Tarantino movie tier.

>>16735668
I don't believe so. The dialogues between snake and the boss are the meat of the game, and if you listen to them carefully, you will find much to be appreciated. As I said, it's not Shakespeare tier, but compared to today's standards it's pretty good.

>>16735668
what leads you to that conclusion, fren?

>>16734743
Performance art is not about acting silly in public. That's the sensationalistic examples that make it into the public.

>>16735628
>Not everyone on this board is a gatekeeping pseud.
This board would be a lot better if it was.

>>16735668
Kek, pseud

What are some books about memes? I've already read The Selfish Gene

>>16735626
I agree, even if the other anon calls it a blockbuster sensationalist driver, it's even better than a Tarantino movie, you can't even compare them, the medium helps metal gear deliver a whole new experience.
Remember the battle with The End? The ladder scene? The last dialogue of Revolver Ocelot in the credits? Beyond based

>>16736327
The ladder scene is probably the best moment I experienced in any vidya (seriously, how did he pull it off?). That said, what makes the game distinct imo is how it manages to capture the relationships between the characters. You can almost feel the mixture of confusion and admiration snake feels towards the boss, or boss' compassion and guilt towards snake, or the sexual tension between him and Eva, or the cute rivalry ocelot feels towards snake. Such an immersive story telling is very rare, especially in a video game. Beyond based, as you said.

>>16736326
Books are memes.

>>16736539
Your mom is a meme

>>16736539
woah...

>>16734358
good list, the McLuhan especially

The Postmodern Condition, Lyotard
Discourse Networks 1800/1900, Kittler
Gramophone, Film, Typewriter, Kittler
Blog Theory: Feedback and Capture in the Circuits of Drive, Jodi Dean

>>16735613
You're trying too hard.

>>16734154
Manufacturing Consent

>>16737188
Thanks mate, these are good recommendations

>What are some books that talk about this?
You're not interested in this answer. You're interested in talking about your gay fucking video games away from the "idiots" on /v/ on the "smart" board. KYS teenagers.

>>16734154
unironically, all the systems and control theory books that kantbot has recommended this year

>>16735910
>what we need is more censorship

>>16739358
i have a bunch of those pics saved, ill post

>>16739506

>>16739522

>>16739532

>>16734733

bump

>>16739325
Wow have sex

>>16739506
>>16739522
>>16739532
>>16739541
Thanks lad, I will check out katbont later too
You are a good lad, I appreciate it

Posting in /v/edditor thread!

>>16739487
>gatekeeping is the same as censorship
Why are proles like this?

>>16741574
Here we go

>>16740714
>Thanks lad, I will check out katbont later too
/lit/ why did you do this to OP?

>>16741608
I just checked him out, he's a fat fuck
Should I trust this guy

>>16734154
Doesn’t Fahrenheit 451 touches on this theme while explaining the reason why books were banned?

reminder video games are kitsch and are not art, just mindless entertainment for wo/men in arrested development.

>>16741942
said the better than food fan

>>16734154
I remember being like 15 when this part of the game happened and being completely confused. I still don't understand what what was going on.

Rereading this now, it sounds like babby's first Baudrillard. Simulacra and Simulation to be exact. Mixed in with some memetics, and postmodernism in general.

>>16741998
???

>>16742002
>Rereading this now, it sounds like babby's first Baudrillard. Simulacra and Simulation to be exact.
Yeah more or less. That Disneyland summary may as well sum up the major critiques MGS2 presents.

>>16741662
I only said he's been recommending books relevant to OP. I wouldn't particularly recommend following his Twitter, he's gone a bit batty and constantly tries to provoke people and assert his ego over any interest anyone else has.

>>16742002
Is it okay to go straight into Baudrillard? How difficult is his work?

what is lit's opinion on pathologic

>>16743428
only /lit/ game in existence, and I don't care what some fallout pseud or silent hill art ho says. with that said it's russian so it sucks.

>>16734348
Off the top of my head, there was an interview with MGS2's English translator where she mentioned having been reading Greg Egan at the time. None of his novels (at least that I'd read) have gotten into the same themes of ontology as MGS2, but he does deal in themes of ontology a lot in his writing - see his Subjective Cosmology trilogy of novels linked by their common theme, in particular.

>>16743643
What books from him do you recommend, lad?

>>16743428
I played 3/4 of Pathologic HD before dropping it. The atmosphere is excellent and the dialogue is great, but as a game it's messy: your character is slow as molasses, the in-game economy is busted, and you can easily die instantly upon entering a lot of buildings. I know about Pathologic 2 but I dunno if it's worth playing all that again.

>>16734348
I could never find a specific book source but I remember people often saying the themes of MGS2 especially those the AI touches on were very common in japanese college discourse about the internet around that time.

>>16734154
Marriage of Heaven and Hell

>>16734733
Do you consider board games or toys to be art? Video games may have the potential to be an artistic medium, but by definition they're first and foremost games meant to be played, it's not primarily a method of human expression. Which is why pretentious art games can easily be cringe, they're going against what the medium fundamentally is.