/lit/ - Literature

>>16754831
Nihilism is pretty simple for me analytically. If the universe is the sum-total of all ideologies then nihilism is just one of those.

>>16754831
The holy Gathas.
I am a prophet, and I come forth with the antidote to nihilism. Dualism is absolute. I have plunged into the deaths of absolute horror and nihilism and still do so, but I have found the light above it too. You must be purified. I will take you in as a disciple if you wish.

>>16754831
numb yourself with classical music

>>16754860
How does this work?

Post composers, by the way

>>16754831
dont be a pussy and take the next step after nihilism, aka realising that if nothing matters you are truly unconstrained in devoting your life to simply appreciating the beauty of being and sharing love with frens.

>>16754831
r/bigchungus

>>16754855
Not OP but I'm interested

>>16754872
Thats a cop out, the real next step in suicide, and you know it bucko

>>16754872
Tbh i think this just has to do w how ppl raise their kids because you can skip every step here and have experienced more than a fucker who takes every pedestrian step that y'all suggest in regards to nihilism.
>nothing exists even if it does
>I'm free because nothing exists even if it really does
Nobody said you weren't.

>>16754890
peepee poopoo
keep dwelling on misery while i enjoy nature, books and all that pretty crap. i'll kill myself when im bored with it, but before that i have years of pure joy ahead.

>>16754890
Are you a nihilist, anon? Why haven't you ended it?

>implying things happening isn't meaningful in itself
Take the wonderpill, friend

>>16754871
I don't know, but I only really feel at peace when I'm listening to classical music, or drunk out of my mind. You can't go wrong with Bach but I've been getting into Brahms lately. Try Piano Concerto no. 1. I know Schopenhauer wrote a lot about the consolatory powers and metaphysical qualities of music, so read him.

>>16754903
>keep dwelling on misery
Wrong
> i enjoy nature
No you don't, you are fat
>>16754906
no

>>16754878
Don't this guy is clearly mentally ill trying to start a cult and we probably lead you into psychosis

>>16754918
Thanks, friend

Wishing you the best

>>16754878
A dualistic perennialism, rather than a monist/nondualist one, is closest to the true nature of reality. The holy Gathas does a good job of pointing this, and other Zoroastrian scriptures such as Mardanfarrox's Doubt-Removing Exposition, some parts of Bundashihn, and others do a good job too. The best way I can explain it is there some kind of rudimentary dualism underlying life that relates to one's embodied mentality/spirit (mainyu), and one should privilege asha (truth, righteousness) over druj (lie, maliciousness). The best way to understand this is to find an aspect of the good uncontaminated and divorced from evil. One means to do this is by alternating between literature of the extremes. For example, read works like Les Chants de Maldoror or Blood Meridian, but afterwards, read Wind in the Willows and Beatrix Potter. The deepening of the contrast shows there is an aspect of the light that does not need darkness for mutual identification.
In fact, you'll start to nondualism/monism as the real aberration of perceptual mechanisms. Reality is merely the battleground between the light and darkness. Also, here's my list for films.

>>16754926
I am not mentally ill. I am far more successful in life than you. I have a degree in Neuroscience, and I am almost done with my computer science degree.
Just because I am a prophet does not mean I am mentally ill.
Why do you oppose me? Why not just be my disciple for two weeks and see where it leads you? I am well-read.

>>16754923
seething because i take most primal joy inaccesible to you in simple things, huh

>>16754955
Wow touched a nerve there didn't it. Anyone genuinely claiming to be a prophet is out of touch with reality I'm afraid. Either you are delusional or trying to groom people by taking them as 'disciples'
"The way up and the way down is one and the same." - Heraclitus

>>16754923
>> i enjoy nature
>No you don't, you are fat
This is the quality discourse I come to lit for

>>16754911
Based, any recommendations other than Whitehead and Deleuze?

>>16754971
Empedocles is better than Heraclitus. There are certain antagonistic forces that cannot be reconciled or seen as "two sides of the same coin".

>>16754960
no

>>16754872
>you are truly unconstrained in wageslaving until you die

>>16754995
What is joyful play for the cat is terrifying and suffering for the mouse.

dont worry kid you will grow out of it

>>16755021
There are instances of joyful play that do not involve sentient beings experience terror or suffering in consequence.
In the House of Wisdom, there is joyful play without the suffering of others.
In the House of Lies, there is terror and suffering with no joy.
This world is their collision and battle.
What matters is to cultivate the state of mind that aligned with the House of Wisdom as best as one can do.
One book of Ahura Mazda is Oakley Graham's The Church Mice series. In this series, a cat befriends mice, and they have adventure.
This is a real world...
Moominvalley is real.
Ligotti's carnival towns are likewise real.
Depending on how you cultivate your mind, you will either go to a higher or lower realm.

>>16755057
>experience
experiencing*
Also, even though Graham Oakley is Christian, The Church Mice series are still blessed by Ahura Mazda.

>>16754831
my diary desu

>>16755057
>>16755062
Thank you for taking the time to reply and for the recommendation. I don't think either of us are going to change the other's mind. But if I can ask, what made you decide this view of the world is true?

litteraly just enjoy the moment and appreciate beauty

>>16754982
Take the laconic pill

>>16755092
It was more the impeccable logic and the far reaching insight of the anon to know the other was fat that I was impressed with

>>16755082
I was a devout Soto Zen Buddhist for some time. I read the Platform, Diamond, and other sutras. I also read a lot of Dogen and other figures. However, later, I read multiple translations of the Gathas. I had some very powerful dreams, which I recorded and can share if further intrigued, and it made me consider cosmic dualism more seriously. I also constructed certain epistemological and ontological arguments, which I am still refining.
I believe all forms of monism/nondualism and even monotheism logically entail nihilism. There needs to be some kind of rudimentary dualism where the good banishes/absorbs the evil in order to avoid nihilism. I have a published horror story, which subtly conveys how nihilism is unavoidable in systems that privilege a One.

>>16755113
Thanks for elaborating. How do you reconcile these beliefs with physical interpretations of how the universe functions? Beliefs that are neither dualistic nor nondualistic nor monist. Also what do you think what we call consciousness is?

>>16755113
Also yes I would like to hear about your dreams.

>>16755126
My background in physics is weak. However, many physicists I have conferred with have claimed one cannot extrapolate ontological conclusions from the current state of the field. For this reason I am wary to invest time into studying it more.
I agree with Chomsky and New Mysterians that the "Hard Problem of Consciousness" is largely intractable and difficult to solve. I think, on one level, you can take a proto-panpsychist or double-aspect theory approach and argue for a kind of monism like Schopenhauer or Vedanta. However, on another level, it can also be used to argue for cosmic dualism when you start questioning how contrasting embodied mental states can relate to layers or different dimensions of the Absolute or so forth.

>>16755137
1/2
I recently had two dreams in a row. My first dream involved finding myself in a labyrinthine library, which had multiple levels. There was a faint irrradiance that permeated the entire setting. Each book on the shelves glowed as if begging to be grabbed. I found myself on the topmost level, and from the corner, a refulgence of light engulfed me. I trudged towards the most luminescent of books and picked it up. Beautiful and serene, I flipped through it without forethought. What moved me were the most beautiful of all vistas, invigorating my entire being with peace and calm. Picturesque and idyllic, the enchanting pictures emanated divine light, perfect order and stability. Its paintings were reminiscent of more otherworldly illustrations of Alfred Bestall or Maxfield Parrish. A picture book of absolute goodness, a Perfect Platonic form. I wanted to take this book to share with my wife.
I awoke once, hoping it was in my clasped right hand. My hand kept opening and closing as I gazed upon it with one open eye. Back to sleep once more, I attempted again to cling to the book, this time harder, to bring it to the actual world of matter. I failed once more.
I realized that no matter how many times I vainly tried to bring forth this book of absolute light of goodness, this Book of Spenta Mainyu, that it would forever remain in the recesses of this dream world. I gave up, for fear that after too many attempts, new dreams would overtake me thereby causing this comforting one to dissolve. I gently placed the book on the shelf. It is as if all the generosity, loving-kindness, and wisdom of this world were condensed into its purest and benevolent of all forms within that angelic book.
In the foyer of the library, I conversed with several people reading books.
“How can I bring books from this library to the actual world?” I inquired.
“Oh, you cannot bring any of those books to such a world,” one of them replied.
I became silent and morose. The dream ended, and I laid hopeless in bed. Being still tired, it took me five minutes to fall asleep once more.

>>16755172
2/2
The second dream occurred in a gas station. While walking around idly, the scene struck me as immensely decrepit and dirty. Stains of defecation were in the corners and all processed foods were expired. The main cashier seemed bored, reading a newspaper without a care in the world. I came across a peculiar magazine rack.
Without much forethought, my hand glided towards a conspicuous magazine from which emitted a murky darkness. Appalled, it took my dream-mind a couple of seconds to process what it beheld: the book’s covering felt akin to skin and little strings dangled on its bottom. My fingers caressed its strings. “No, it couldn’t be,” I whispered. These flimsy strings were from human entrails, their stench unbearable. I became too fearful to open the book.
Eventually, some great unworldly dark temptation took hold of me, and I gently opened the book. Inside were pictures of dismembered children that shocked me whereby no words can do justice to the horror, like dark net engulfing one in its madness. As I flipped through the pages they became increasingly more chaotic and disorderly, the faces of blood and agony feeling even more frightening in this dreamworld. I immediately put the Book of Angra Mainyu back onto the rack. It is as if all the greed, hatred, and delusion of this world were condensed into its purest and malevolent of all forms within that infernal book.

My question is this:

How do the books of absolute light and darkness relate to the Absolute?

>>16755160
>many physicists I have conferred with have claimed one cannot extrapolate ontological conclusions from the current state of the field.
What makes you think it is possible to come to definitive ontological conclusions at all? Most people are satisfied to say they don't know the underlying structure of reality, if there even is one. Why do you feel the need to have answers for these questions? If you don't mind me asking.

>>16755176
Thanks for telling me about your dreams, very interesting. The first one sounds absolutely beautiful.

>>16755178
The reality is the most I have uncovered is there is a kind of rudimentary dualism. That there is a Spenta and Angra Mainyu (mentality/spirit -- will call spenta and angra for short), which can also be seen in deeds, words, and action. In this sense, we can say certain deeds, words, and action are definitively good or bad. We can also use artwork and various mystical practices to perceive this better.
However, how Spenta and Angra originated, relate to one another, and so forth are more difficult matters to attend to. When contrasting Empedocles and Heraclitus, I better understood two possibilities: either spenta & angra preexisted independently from one another (as Mardanfarrox argued) or emerged from a common source and are on equal territory. There is also another possibility that they emerged from a common source, but spenta is closer to that common source and angra is far from it.
Empedocles' philosophy is close to the metaphysics of traditional Mazdayasna whereas Heraclitus is aligned with the Zurvanite interpretation. In the case of Heraclitus/Zurvanism, I do believe it logically entails nihilism since they treat both spenta and angra as being on equal territory, much like deciding one's favorite flavor of ice cream. Most of my horror stories are written from the perspective of Zurvanism of blurring the light and darkness & treating them on equal territory whereas my children's stories are written from the perspective of traditional Mazdayasna where spenta is privileged over angra. I was able to publish one horror story, but I have had no luck with my children's stories. My goal is to bring both the book of light and darkness into this world through my written stories and to better understand their ontological relations.
Mobed debated this matter a lot too during Sassanian emprie.

>>16754831
You literally just need therapy. Maybe you don’t exercise enough. A healthy human mind sees meaning in the world, a depressed one doesn’t.

>>16755313
>the most I have uncovered is there is a kind of rudimentary dualism
Uncovered where? I am proposing you have taken on these ideas to soothe your troubled mind, not because they are some underlying truth. I'm sure you don't want to accept that and will push back against me saying that but that's what I believe is going on here.

>>16755313
>deeds, words, and action
deeds, words, and thought*

>>16755333
No, I see your point in some ways, but it's a difficult matter. We all have to settle on certain metaphysical claims in life. It begins with the Problem of Other Minds and rejecting solipsism. After that, we're forced to draw other metaphysical assumptions. I took the step of rudimentary dualism after certain dreams and further metaphysical inquiry. I can understand you remaining a skeptic though.
I am not approaching this in an emotional manner for coping purposes either.

>>16755363
>metaphysical assumptions
metaphysical conclusions*
>further metaphysical inquiry
further inquiry*

>>16755363
>No, I see your point in some ways, but it's a difficult matter. We all have to settle on certain metaphysical claims in life. It begins with the Problem of Other Minds and rejecting solipsism. After that, we're forced to draw other metaphysical assumptions.
I completely agree with all of this. Alfred North Whitehead makes the same point. He also says to seek simplicity and distrust it. I cannot convince myself that a universe that in the physical is so complicated and intricate, with so many moving parts, assemblages, textures, systems etc. would be so simple when it comes to metaphysical good and evil or anything like that. But thank you for your insight.

>>16754831

The only meaning in life you'll find is the meaning you create yourself. Stop being lazy and go put some meaning into something. Learn how to shave properly. Or take up whitling. Or go fix a car. Or figure out how to talk to women. There's probably a billion things you can do in life that you can find meaning in.

>>16755404
The emptiness.

>>16755408
What do you mean? That’s perfectly good advice.

>>16755391
Well, on a final note, let me mention this: while the physical is complicated and intricate, one has to realize that it can theoretically be produced with the use of simple algorithms, especially if they are based on recursion. How these algorithms can further couple together in order to produce new bifurcating or interrelated processes, is what makes makes the matter difficult.
So I would argue there can be an algorithm of goodness, but it couples or branches with the evil algorithm in a way that creates the illusion of this question being intractable.

>>16754831
follow the instructions. Its not like you have anything to lose.

>>16754831
I feel like you OP. But, recently, I think I've found a way. You see, all of this is like a little box. You're in despair because you want to know what is outside the box, for obvious reasons. The thing is, there is nothing of value outside the box, everything's dark and cold. On the other side, there are various things inside the box, in fact, it's not so little as you thought before. For instance, there are some paintings and some canvas, some instruments and some music sheets, some pieces of ship or tank building models and instructions. So, while you start practicing to become a master of whatever thing you choose to do inside the box, there is less time to think about what is outside and, in fact, it becomes superfluous. That's the endgame of nihilism. When you are able to accept the nothingness from "outside" because it doesn't interfere with all the creative work which you are able to do "inside". "Nothing really matters in the end" is a false and unilateral claim because it assumes Death as an absolute, while reality consists both of Life and Death. The former is inside the box, the latter is outside. You can choose which one to consider in your everyday. Choosing the latter is irrational, considering the position in which you are (that is, inside the box).

Brainlet. Nihilism is inherently neutral. There is no reason to kill yourself, just like there is no reason not to kill yourself. Whether nihilism makes you sad or happy, comes down to your own psychological sentiment, its not a rational conclusion from nihilism either way. All nihilism maybe does is make it harder to cope with suffering in your life, since you don't have a large structure to organize your life around.

>>16755022
bullshit, once you've fully seen it you can't "grow out of it" unless you are capable of fully deluding yourself. Many dumb people are, but if you're intelligent enough you won't be able to hide yourself from the truth. Ironically it is you who hasn't grown up, you hide yourself under the covers from the monster that is the truth.

>>16754831
I don't know if it's better for there to be no meaning or for there to be meaning and failing to achieve it.

Make meaning. If you can’t, you’re weak and ought to kill yourself. If you don’t have the fortitude to do so, drink until you do. Stop being a pussy. Either become who you are or leave.

>>16756606
>become who you are

What do you mean by this?

>>16754831
The thing that really pulls me out of a funk is this mountain lion sample at 3:40 in this here song. Quite possibly the best moment in music.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JTMVOzPPtiw

Existentialists might do you some good.

Tillich - The Courage to Be
Sartre - Nausea
Camus - The Myth of Sisyphus

>>16757026
>The courage to be
>BTFO by Becker

Same

>>16754831
this is ironic, right? i mean it's actually a comedically tired thread topic. Also, kill yourself for blogposting, faggot. I swear I've seen this exact post before

>>16754831
You should read Notes From Underground
By Dostoyevsky , it helped me in a similiar situation by showing me the pit falls I could fall into

>>16757803
I have a question for you, since you're the only lesbian I know of... Do lesbians actually feel things like empathy and love? Or are they just socopathic automatons like male homosexuals?

>nihilists who haven't killed themselves
Sorry, I don't listen to cowards.

>>16754928
I would also add Strauss (Metamorphosen), Bruckner (7th Symphony), Mahler (2nd, 8th, 9th), Shostakovich (5th, 7th)

>>16756672
Probably has something to do with taking dick in his ass

>>16754831
>I can't cope with the meaninglessness of life
I had the same reaction when I realized that I was going to be a genetic dead end. What's the point of any struggle, if you can't pass on the benefits to your own flesh and blood? But on the other hand, what's the point of having children, especially given the current state of the world? We're already bankrupt in a spiritual sense, and thanks to Corona-chan, soon in a material sense too.

>Literature that will help me decide if I should go on living?
Find something that will make you bawl your eyes out. Of course, the emotional swings of catharsis are a cope, but the clarity of mind you'll feel afterwards is better than numbing yourself into ennui and waiting for death to take you.

>>16754831
Within the darkness, there is a deeper darkness.

This is what you must find.

>>16754831
Meditation with the goal of astral projection. Many books are written on this topic, google or go to /x/ and ask for recommendations. There is nothing, but cope and distraction for the average person in the material - three dimensional realm.

>>16758665
You’re an ass.
There’s a certain amount of mimicry for some homosexuals. The males you call swishy act more emotional and caring. The opposite of some lesbians. They want to be tough. These are just your general *gender roles* which you patriarchal types cling to so hard, you emotionless automaton.
Fuck you.
Butters is a switch

>>16754871
Gotta get yourself immersed into the music. Can't go wrong with a violin solo like https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TyCE4lBn_T0&ab_channel=faranfamily

>>16754831
take the ug pill

This channel attempts to discuss nihilism in art... you should check it out
https://youtu.be/wjtSUpbrTZw

>>16754831
>mfw I overcome nihilism by realising it is logically impossible, philosophically incoherent and historically irrelevant

>>16754871
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pze4NxCOjg0

>>16758677
Why would nihilist kill himself? Nothing matters even suicide is meaningless

>>16754831
Nihilism is a prerequisite to begin the drudge through the existentialists, stop being a faggot and read something instead of posting frogs. I recommend Camus, I know, boring cliché, but Myth of Sysiphus might be a decent read, because you're suicidal.

>>16762607
Fuck, I spelled Sisyphus wrong, fucking end me

>>16754831
The only good thing ever written on meaning, in my view - the only thing that could be life-promoting for people actually living now - is Thomas Nagel's essay "The Absurd." It is a good starting place for developping a non-histrionic position on meaningfull/lessness

>>16762616
>>16762607
Imagine being made immortal, having your eyes gouged out, and forced to walk nude in the dirtiest part of the ghetto, and in this hypothetical case, the ghetto stretches infinitely in all directions. You'd be a blind man floundering about as blacks smack their lips and some of them rape you.
One must imagine Sisyphus happy after all...

>>16754844
>these are the people i share a board and planet with
i sometimes feel like a postmodern iteration of the fisher king, but that my wound and burden are existing and suffering other people

I'm glad you reached the logical consequences of nihilism instead of coping like hedonists retards who are too cowards to realize what they are supporting. Now, obviously is time to get rid of that nihilism before it kills you. You know perfectly what to do next.

read this

>>16762747
based huysmans poster

>>16754872
>devoting your life to simply appreciating the beauty of being and sharing love with frens
existence is not beautiful, it if horrifying. there is no such thing as beauty. everything you enjoy is just an attempt of your biology to prolong your life and spread your genes. if you were able to remove the veil your evolutionary drives place on your eyes, you would see that women are repulsive, the act of sex and procreation is mind numbingly disgusting, and every form of physical closeness with other humans is offputting. you can notice these things easily in other life forms, like dogs, or fish, or insects, but when it comes to human women, your body tricks you with hormones to cover your senses, so you can act like a brainless animal for long enough to do the deed. you are a slave to your biology, yet you pretend to find happiness in submitting to it. you are a product of genetic codes you did not choose, yet you are separate from this code, and you possess the ability to reject or submit to these base drives and impulses. impulses you share with the lowliest life forms, mind. is it noble to act upon them? no more would that make you noble, than it does a dog or a snake to act on their drives. does it make you good to reject them? not necessarily, as such a decision might just be the result of a broken code. is it good to live? is it bad to die? i don't really know. i just don't like it here.

>>16755113
>I believe all forms of monism/nondualism and even monotheism logically entail nihilism
pls explain

>>16762769
Based

>>16762769
>there is no such thing as beauty
Not with that attitude fag

>>16754831
The Bible