/lit/ - Literature

Read Satre

>>16968089
What does he say about this?

>>16968080
A prison run by whom, and to what end?

>>16968114
>whom
Entities, either malevolent or indifferent, depends on the theory.
>to what end
Either as some kind of farm to harvest something (this is what Robert Monroe seemed to talk about in his books and what most mystical experiences I've read about corroborate), or for some other reason, but the most popular theory is the former.

unironically peterson

>>16968080
Plato BTFOs them prety hard. Also, regardijg the prison thing, his escatology offers a way out of reincarnation, while also proving that life on Earth is not hellish nor bad.

>>16968238
>Plato BTFOs them prety hard
In which book?
>a way out of reincarnation
How does he describe it?
The mechanisms of reincarnation I've read about verge on schizo shit so I'm not sure if they're relevant, but it's described as compulsory.

>>16968080
how would you refute something that can't be proven in the first place

>>16968144
before or after sentencing?

>>16968080
>Picrel says Sophia loves the Demiurge
Does she?

>>16968296
Well it's her kid after all

>>16968114
>>16968125
> run by whom
> entities
“God” “Yahweh” aka Yaldabaoth, the great Deceiver.
> to what end
> to farm something
To harvest us for delicious soulfood.
The Universe is a granary, our souls are wheat for Its unnatural appetites.
The gnostic seeker aspires to break through the walls of this material prison on the wings of fire, the wisdom of the Dove.
>>16968080
> refute
I actually haven’t made up my mind though. I think an anti-gnostic cosmology would be one in which the spirit and nature are part of the same self-rejuvenating continuum, such as Taoism or Shintoism. Gnosticism sees nature as illusory and therefore evil; but what of the souls of trees, the souls of birds and flowers? Are they not Saved? Is nature not perfect already?

I still can’t decide if I’m a Gnostic or a Taoist, bros.

>>16968313
>to break through the walls of this material prison on the wings of fire, the wisdom of the Dove.
Yeah but how does that work, practically speaking?

>>16968324
A lifetime of meditation, prayer, abstinence from material temptations, total discipline and devotion to Sophia’s sacred light.

>>16968345
Is that enough?

>>16968324
>>16968345
I believe music and art are acceptable forms of devotion as well.
>>16968313
> Gnostic or Taoist
It comes down to a Transcendent vs. Immanent view of reality. This thread has been running through western philosophy since the earliest days.

>>16968114
http://www.trickedbythelight.com/tbtl/Adams2ndShowNotes.html
Look past the presentation and look at the content

>>16968369
>a Transcendent vs. Immanent view of reality
Don't you mean of divinity?

>>16968366
Perhaps? Perhaps not. One must have faith. Even if that faith is itself an illusion.... yet by Christ’s Grace,
the light shines through — somehow.

https://youtu.be/k-e_B1Xh7Gw

>>16968125
>>16968313
This is the dumbest shit I've ever heard, how's that for a refutation

>>16968411
Not very convincing.

>>16968080
Heidegger, German Idealism, Christian Platonists, Neoplatonists, Shankaracharya, Derrida

>>16968264
I think that anon is referring to Plotinus' Aeneads. IIRC Plato predates the Gnostics.

>>16968516
I don't think the Enneads mention a way out of reincarnation or anything like that

>>16968238
>while also proving that life on Earth is not hellish nor bad.
A world full of unsatisfying desires that you have almost no choice but to endlessly satisfy is most certainly hell, anon

>>16968600
Plotinus targets the Gnostic assertion that the world is "a prison" crafted maliciously by the Demiurge. It's a different type of refutation to what you are thinking of.

>>16968600
You do that via henosis

>>16968607
Maybe we're in purgatory.

>>16968080
Why does Gnosticism trigger Christcucks so hard?

>>16968382
This is extremely spooky but the way it's presented makes it so that nobody will ever take it seriously.

>>16968620
Why are you obsessed with Christians? I never even mentioned them

>>16968382
>>16968622
Could I get a quick rundown?

>>16968734
tl;dr: analyzing near-death experiences leads to the observation that seemingly benevolent figures and symbols seen after death (the light, loved ones) are a facade to lure people back into the mechanism of rebirth.
The justification for these claims is made clear on the page, it's not something the writer pulled out of his ass.

>>16968609
How could it be proven that this world is not a prison?
>>16968610
Isn't the process the same as >>16968345?

>>16968804
>How could it be proven that this world is not a prison?
Read what Plotinus has to say and you will understand. The line of argument he adopts is that since there are divine elements clearly perceptible within this world and through the tools provided to us by this world, to claim it is a prison and a malicious illusion is mistaken. You are within the world, but you do not need to be saved from it.

>>16968819
But the point of gnosticism is that these divine sparks are indeed trapped here but can be freed through gnosis. Plotinus doesn't seem to contradict this.

>>16968804
>Isn't the process the same
More or less yes

>>16968829
Bro please just read him and then go to some of the Plotinus threads, usually there is lots of Neoplatonist vs Gnostic shitslinging. I just started the Enneads myself so I only know this stuff from /lit/, I am sorry I can't help you further.

>>16968620
It's the opposite. The average Christian doesn't even know what gnosticism is, it's literally like in that Mad Men meme

>>16968967
>>16968620

When I was 16 I started reading the Nag >>16968313
Hammadi texts and Gnostic apocrypha. My youth pastor (I was raised evangelical Christian) told me I was going down the path of the Devil. I never looked back. Their “God” is an archon of illusion and subjugation.

I am >>16968345

>>16968345
How do you know this will work and get you out of the world-prison?

>>16968984
Gnostics really are just spiritual fedoras

>>16968984
Christianity is compatible with Gnosticism though, since Christians believe in the divinity of Christ.

There aren't any. You can debate finer points of the doctrine but the attitude that this world is hell (more subtly, that there is hell in this world) and hostile to all noble souls is the starting point of all great spiritual traditions.

>>16968313
>I still can’t decide if I’m a Gnostic or a Taoist, bros.
How are these two things even related?

>>16968607
Only for men to whom desire is burdensome and painful.

>>16969133
Aren't there half a dozen buddhist threads for you to shill in?

>>16968607
>he finds earthly pleasure "unsatisfying"
Sucks to have a broken brain

>>16969153
You're the one with a broken brain, consoomer

>>16969166
Pleasure isn't always based on consumption

>>16969068
>the attitude that this world is hell
Is an unproductive one.

>>16968313
I spit on demiurges grave and on all of whom were before him
strife make this imperfect realm a perfect one, not to flee away

>>16969243
Cringe

>>16969248
tell me its not true
it was not some higher absolute god who created the concept of demiurge, humans did, humans are the creators, the deceivers, and the deceived at the same time

>>16969213
Unproductive... for whom? My boss? I hope that isn't what you mean.

>>16969243
Haha humans have been around for a blip in cosmic time and you people think you can renovate the universe. Get some perspective

>>16969286
For you

>>16969014
to (some) christians, only the the soul of christ is divine, not the body (sometimes it is but whatever)
gnostics believe in the divinity of every soul

>>16969286
For yourself, you dipshit

>>16969277
>>16969243

>>16969298
>gnostics believe in the divinity of every soul
And Christians don't? Then what is henosis?

>>16969309
>henosis
even then, one cannot ascend to godhood

>>16969014
Evangelicals, such as those who raised me, along with most mainstream Catholics and Protestants, would be entirely hostile to Gnosticism since it goes against their narrow doctrines of salvation. To a Gnostic, the “Christian God” is the Demiurge, the Deciever, and the Christ is but a masterful and transcended soul.

>>16969299
>>16969297
Because ... ?

>>16969322
I don't think gnosticism claims the opposite. Ascension to pleroma is still a reunion with the divine, not an usurpation.

>>16969329
There's nothing to reunite with, the Pleroma is the pneumatic self's own deep reality. Gnosticism has nothing to do with the river of the soul merging with the Godhead. It hates that shit.

>>16969325
>along with most mainstream Catholics and Protestants,
Not Orthodox?
Also, Christian soteriology is not really narrow. What are you comparing it with?

>>16969333
>Pleroma is the pneumatic self's own deep reality.
Could you expand on that? I've never heard about that interpretation. It seems to me that the gnostic cosmology is one of ascension and that the primordial one is the goal.
>It hates that shit
Why?
Also could you answer >>16969088?

>>16969333
false

What is the Gnostic take on rebirth?
It's what I find most terrifying honestly. The possibility that reincarnation is real, that dharmic religions are right and that no matter what I'll end up having my consciousness and self completely destroyed is a distressing thought

>>16969360
Filoramo says as much.

>>16969348
It makes no sense to speak of a gnostic going anywhere, he just confirms his own incommensurability with matter. He isn't a fragment of God, he IS God. You don't melt into the Pleroma, the Pleroma melts into you.

>>16969403
>he IS God. You don't melt into the Pleroma, the Pleroma melts into you.
Isn't that literally left-hand satanism

>>16969376
Gnostic thanatology is the same as Tibetan Buddhist: at death your tested by your reactivity to the void, gods, demons, etc.

As I understand it, at death you sink into the phantasmagoric reality of the unconscious and are either recycled by the Archons or ascend into the Pleroma

>>16969412
to a christian? yes

>>16969413
>you sink into the phantasmagoric reality of the unconscious and are either recycled by the Archons or ascend into the Pleroma
FUCK how do I avoid getting scammed into being reborn? I don't want to come back

>>16969412
Yes, but gnosticism isn't satanist, and it definitely isn't monist. Is jung a satanist because he prescribed radical individuation? No. And yes, he does. Read the 7 Sermons. He confuses the Pleroma with the false brahman but whatever, he gets it

>>16969416
Christians don't believe they'll "melt" into God though, just that they'll be eternally in His presence.

>>16969425
>definitely isn't monist.
But it's derived from Platonism, which is monist. Or is Christianity not monist either then?
>He confuses the Pleroma with the false brahman
What does this have to do with hinduism?

>>16969420
To the extent you stay "awake in the heart of death" and keep your bearings, ie aren't magnetized to the illusions symbolized by the Archons, you ascend. Think of the pneumatic soul as a balloon weighed down by illusion. As you throw off your density, you ascend spontaneously. It's also in the hermetic texts: on the way up, you give back what the planets gave you (your stomach, your eyes, your genitals, your body, etc.) unless of course your can't.

>>16969328
It's a self-fulfilling idea.

>>16969439
No, it's hermeneutic is derived from Platonism, and certainly a sketch of it's metaphysics in Sethian texts like Zostrianos, but not gnosticism is dualist at heart.

As for Hinduism: Gnostics reject the cosmic cycles of birth and death, to them Brahma is an eater of worlds and a Demiurge.

>>16969441
So as long as I don't give a shit about what I'm leaving behind in the physical world, I'm good?
Seems a little too easy, I'm already like this. I literally live like a hermit and only spend money on rent, electricity, water, food and internet.
Surely there's something more to it or else more people would ascend instead of remaining trapped, no?
The tibetans themselves say it's really hard to recognize that the illusions are indeed illusions once you're in that state.

>>16969445
Except, conveniently, those ideologies that normalize being a sufferpig for the financier Archons of globalism, sure.

What do gnostics think of orthodoxy? >>16969338

way too much identification with the ego, the lesser self, and the material body ITT
> tfw you will not ascend

>>16969457
are you saying that even without your body, your ego would remain?

>>16969469
What is left when you remove the ego? What is the higher self is not an obliteration of what makes me who I am? If I am not conscious and aware of being conscious, I am not.

>>16969457
Don't confuse urbanite apathy and anhedonia with noble contempt for the world. I bet you still masturbate or eat shit food. It isn't about apathy in the moment, it's about being dispassionate the instant you have the opportunity to give up, once and for all, the illusions that magnetize you to this prison. Can you do that? I wouldn't call Tolkien a gnostic but he knew what it meant to be tempted by Satan. Frodo fails to give up these illusions at the point of no return

>>16969473
What do you mean?
>>16969483
>urbanite apathy and anhedonia
It's a choice, though, and I live in the country.
>being dispassionate the instant you have the opportunity to give up, once and for all, the illusions that magnetize you to this prison
I don't understand what that entails. If I am not attached to this world, I am not attached to it. What other illusions are there? What binds me here?

>>16969494
All I'm saying is your investment in this world runs far deeper than you know. You're fed and comfortable now, would you be able to keep your bearings at the brink of starvation? Don't mystify evil, but at the same time don't underestimate just how powerful these forces are. Have you detached from sexuality as a cosmic force? The hunger for food? Ego recognition? Even excellence? I doubt it my dude. I'm teaching you this stuff and I haven't. Not saying I'm a sage, I'm actually reminding you I'm not

>>16969088
They're not, in fact they are antithetic. He probably doesn't understand either.

>>16969494
you say you are not attached to this world yet you state that you live in the country?

>>16969517
He understands both just fine, that's why he's conflicted. Classic dilemma of a gnostic who doesn't know how far to take his acosmism.

>>16969519
Yes, it's calmer there and more conducive to spiritual endeavors, in my opinion.
>>16969516
>would you be able to keep your bearings at the brink of starvation?
Is that what it's gonna take in order to break out? Then you're right, right now I'm fucked. I have good discipline in my day to day life, but I'm not some kind of monk completely removed from the very influence of my five senses.
How are you planning to detach yourself from these things altogether?

>>16969537
Explain how you could possibly be conflicted between the all-encompassing monism of Tao and the dualist view of Gnosticism.

>>16969543
Of course it is dude, you have no precedent for the feeling of starvation, let alone the moment of death, none of us do, and that's precisely why it's such a big deal. At the same time, don't get neurotically wrapped up in death as a climactic boss fight with Being or metaphysical realization. Here's what's gonna happen: you're gonna blink into oblivion and if you've built a soul, a kind of numinous agency that maybe only your dream self has ever exercised, maybe you won't dissolve into the void like a chump.

>>16969554
>explain how you could possibly be conflicted between monism and dualism

Are you joking?

>>16969560
You're making it sound completely hopeless.

>>16969543
As for changing myself, I still love the things of this world only so far as they can remind me why I shouldn't. I'm like the guy at the dock reading books about the sea. I still can't let go of thematizing where I'm headed. And admittedly, sexuality and hunger. Only death will test me.

>>16969568
As I said, Taosim and Gnosticism are complete opposites. Being conflicted between the two basically implies you don't know what the fuck you even believe about anything at all.

>>16969571
Nope, gnosticism has always been for an elite. I'm not one but it doesn't prevent me from knowing what it takes. >>16969585

>>16969591
>gnosticism has always been for an elite
Which we'll never be part of. At this point, why even care? The chances of "dissolving into the void" are >99% even if you try your hardest.

>>16969585
Nah, it's more the struggle of how to reconcile your intuition of moral and natural evil with the peace and silence and beauty of nature. Obviously that peace conceals death, but death also conceals joy. Full-on hung hi gnostic acosmicism is something alien to my constitution but the intuitions at the heart of the schools are absolutely sound. Gnosticism has never been a doctrine. We have to create a new Gnosis for the 21st century

>>16969598
Why care? Because there's enough of you to care. Yes we are all of us slug people, but if there's still some light slumbering in us we might as well cling to it. Maybe we're this cosmic cycle's retarded children, but at least some of us will have our dignity in the end

>>16969601
Good post. I'm the anon who is interested in both taoist and gnostic paths, this sums up my dilemma quite well.

>>16968095
Nothing, don't bother reading fr*nch "philosophy", it is all drivel and word salads composed by arrogant pedophiles with a weak grasp on reality. Read Plotinus

Gnosticism?
Ah yes, the christianity for atheist
AKA nooooooooooo this world is literal hell there is no way a benevolent god would create such a place only to test his creations and await them in his imaginary place known as "heaven" where everything is good and warm, I can think for myself!! I am god myself!!! I will call this god "deceiver" and this world a prison! there must be more to this nooooooo

>>16969601
>reconcile your intuition of moral and natural evil with the peace and silence and beauty of nature.
Yes, it's called Christianity.

>>16969601
>a new Gnosis for the 21st century
Based on what?
>>16969608
But your depiction is so bleak that the best course of action for people who are not part of some ascended ascetic elite, the best path would be to just let all that shit go and try to enjoy the good parts of life while assuming we're just going to end up as archon food in the end anyway.

>>16969613
Good, because it's my dilemma too. The tension between the oriental melting into a tranquil ungrund and the gnostic individuation into a hypercosmic star is real. Work through it and you will invent the spirituality of the future

>>16969613
By the way, I also live innacountry and spend time in nature every day. You see it all: the insects struggling and butchering another; trees competing for space, strangling each others roots; yet also the serenity and calm, the balance, the beauty of the flowers and the rejuvenating flow of water. It can't just be that all bad things are illusions from the Deceiver and all good things are reflections of the true God. It has to be more complicated than that. I meditate, I pray, I make art, I compose hymns and poetry, still I do not know the answer.

>>16968080
Dualism is a meme
Embrace the cock&ball

Gnostic emanationism is cope since it's just nondualism but "uhhh actually evil does exist but it really doesn't because it's all of the ineffable Father, the deity beyond qualities, anyway"

>>16969413
Are all your memories and identity destroyed forever every time you're reborn or do they survive and come back once you break out?

>>16969646
Why would a person of the spiritual realm want memories of their time in material prison?

>>16969625
Lol yeah the same "christianity" that has militated against nature and its spirits since its inception. Sit down.

>>16969634
It's the tendency in you to want to just let go and yolo it up in the black iron prison that confirms you as a spiritual slug, you get it yet? Gnosticism is bleak, that's why it never caught on, but it's also supremely hopeful.

>>16969660
If all your memories are erased, you pretty much become a different person. No point in worrying what happens to "you" then since you'll effectively be annihilated.

can u wise people explain to me the gnostic theories behind genshin impact? is the Sustainer of Heavenly Principles demiurge?
why are some of the seven archons seemingly helping the human arrogators or even in an open rebellion against the divine?

>>16969644
You get it dude. I have nothing to tell you, just keep struggling. Do justice to both those realities and you will become a king of yourself

>>16968238
>way out of reincarnation
God is most of all defined as his overflowing Providence, thus to be most like God is to be providential. Aka act in the cosmos for good.

>>16969666
>it's also supremely hopeful
How?
It basically says "you're spiritually weak so you're basically condemned to having your soul chopped up and recycled by entities of pure evil until the end of time, there's a way to escape but you'll never be able to reach it anyways so prepare for the void"

>>16969668
But what if you aren't who you think you are?

>>16969696
Who could I be other than myself?
That's what I don't understand about the idea of a "higher" self
I'm either myself or someone else

>>16969666
S A T A N
A
T
A
N

>>16969711
>Who could I be other than myself?
You are so close

>>16969693
No, it doesn't say you're weak, it just tells you as a matter of fact: this reality you are magnetized to for reasons that almost ontologically transcend the real conditions for you're being here, is indeed a prison but you are saved by the recognition of its horror, or simply by grace. Believing there's only this prison is an artifact of the prison itself: there exists a continuum of radical light that is your true soul

>>16968313
>>16968984
What do you make of Plotinus' arguments?

>>16969716
Are you implying that I am everything?

>>16969748
No, I'm implying that you could at any moment be nothing more than yuo're self

>>16969723
>you are saved by the recognition of its horror, or simply by grace
This goes against what you've told me about gnosticism being for an elite, and escape being extremely difficult if not impossible for those who haven't completely and absolutely rid themselves of everything that ties them to matter.
>Believing there's only this prison
Of course not, that's not what I'm saying.
But, if what you call this continuum of light requires such impossible efforts to break free, then it is effectively bound here forever.

>>16969757
You're playing word games. Do you remember what it was like before you were born? No, because you have no memories of it. Therefore it can be said that you didn't exist. Similarly, if all your current memories were to be obliterated right now, you would cease to exist.
For there to be an afterlife implies the necessity of memory being conserved. Otherwise, whatever moves from this realm to the higher ones is just a nondescript entity, not "you". This is why Buddhism will always be stupid.

>>16969425
Wait Jung was a gnostic? ayo hold up

>>16969714
I get what you're trying to say but I haven't contradicted myself. Full recognition of its horror just is the "elitist" rejection of sexuality, hunger, etc.

At the end of the day, these efforts seem impossible only for you. Yeah and they do for me too, but people have a hard time kicking my stamp collecting, we're talking about kicking Being as we know it here nigga. You think Heidegger was joking when he described our attachment to Being as an addiction? I ain't trying to hype it up just telling you to be a man about it. Maybe it'll be easier for you, who knows I can only speak from my struggle

>>16968324
According to the 1st and 2nd century Gnostics there were seven planetary Archons (demons) who blocked the soul from escaping the material world. You had to have special knowledge to escape their celestial spheres and reach Pleroma: the super-celestial realm of the real God and Goddess (Barbelo and Sophia). Basically they had their own book of the dead for this.

>>16969789
Yes. Read 7 Sermons of the Dead. Gnostic-hyperborean individuation is all there.

>>16969796
>they had their own book of the dead for this.
And where is it now?

>>16969778
Word games or mystery? Some of the most interesting theological dissertations I know of have been written entirely on a single aphorism.

>You do not have memories of thing
>Therefore thing does not exist
I reckon you can see what's wrong with this line of reasoning, but to make it explicit: Are you your memories?

>whatever moves from this realm to the higher ones is just a nondescript entity
Why should you not be a nondescript entity? If we both agree you can be no more than yourself, then attaching qualities to that 'self' -- your being -- is illogical, no?

>>16969797
The description of Pleroma in the 7 sermons is basically that of nothingness. Undifferentiated everything, no consciousness, no being. Is that what gnosticism strives towards?

>>16969813
>Are you your memories?
I am a continuous and self-aware process that is only continuous because of memory. So memories are a component of the self, but they are not me.
>attaching qualities to that 'self' -- your being -- is illogical
But decomposing the self into components isn't.
Either way: if my memories really are erased as I pass through the higher realms or whatever you want to call them, the entity that will be experiencing that ascension will be removed from my current continuous experience of existence. So there is no reason for me to worry myself about what happens after I die since I won't experience any of it.

>>16969463
Gnostics are passive bitches and pussies, for all their rage against the material world they are still in it, and their focus on suffering only causes them to suffer more acutely.

>>16969731
They will never answer this.

>>16969855
>memories are a component of the self, but they are not me
>there is no reason for me to worry myself about what happens after I die since I won't experience any of it
Welcome to the new world freind

>>16969897
But what if they're right and we get recycled after death because we didn't listen?

>>16969906
Wait that was your point all along?

>>16969799
Pretty sure the bardo thodol is applicable to everyone anyways, gnostics would've probably found it accurate for the most part.

>>16969821
No, read until the end.

>>16969897
Who are you quoting?

>>16969928
I descended from my mom's attic to bring wisdom to the world.

>>16969761
>escape being extremely difficult if not impossible
Do any of the gnostic apocrypha actually state this though? Sounds like the guy is just fear-mongering.

>>16969903
There's nothing to answer besides: Yes.

>>16969914
Don't care lol

>>16969965
>No, read until the end.
But I did, mind explaining?
>>16969976
>>What do you make of X
>"Yes"
What?

>>16969974
Read Filoramo. Death generally follows the model you see in the TibetanbBook of the Dead, except I think Gnostics correctly identify these archonic realms as the magnetic fields of this solar system's planets.

>>16970008
This says nothing about the difficulty of escaping though. Actually, the bardo thodol is pretty hopeful, it literally states at one point that you have to be extremely fucking stupid to not attain liberation in death after having read it.

>>16970008
s-so the soul is a magnetic biological organism?

>>16970000
Every one of Plotinus' so-called objections can be answered with: Yes. Read his arguments again and tell me not.

At the end Jung says man must follow Abraxas in himself, ie the derivative individuality he inherits from the Absolute Individual the cosmic Abraxas: Being's Monad that determines everything else in relation to itself. The point isn't to melt back into the Pleroma (in Jung's case: he conflates the Pleroma with Nimrod's parinirvana) but to carry your individuality past undifferentiation and differentiation, into a godhood of your own: the "inner Star"

>>16968277
This is the only good take in here.

>>16970016
Neither do any gnostic texts. They just tell it like it is.

>>16970028
in some subtle way burdened by magnetic planetary cores, yes. Hodgson believed spirits are recycled in planetary magnetospheres, Gurdjieff that souls are imprisoned by solar systems

>>16970040
>Every one of Plotinus' so-called objections can be answered with: Yes.
Then you admit that the world is not a prison? I don't get it.
>man must follow Abraxas in himself
In other words, only deeper intuition is the right path to salvation?
>past undifferentiation and differentiation, into a godhood of your own
It does sound similar to parinirvana. But how does that work cosmologically, if we're assuming gnosticism is not solipsistic?

>>16970060
>Neither do any gnostic texts. They just tell it like it is.
Are you the same poster I've been talking to since the start? If so, I don't see how you're not contradicting yourself here, after stating that gnosis (or escape from the prison) was an exceptionally difficult endeavor that most fail to achieve only to be obliterated.

>>16970061
It is solipsistic, only metaphysically solipsistic. That's why the Inner Man is the condition of Gnosis.

The jury's our on whether the world is a prison for light or for the demons. It's best just to study these things in your own time than hit up 4chan for wisdom

>>16970092
>only metaphysically solipsistic
As opposed to what?

>>16968080
It is refuted by the fact that Soul is different from "Mind", which is just a function of knowledge and memory experienced in Time by the Soul, which is essentialy an Observer without any identity. Outside of the Body there is no memory, there is no Ego, there is no personality, these exist solely as functions of the incarnated Soul. Gnosticism is one of the errors that happens when you identify too much with this false Self and forget what you truly are. These people literally describe a situation where they, as themselves i.e as the false Self or Ego, are put in front of a bunch of lizard-like judges that try bargain with them after death, trying to convince them to "forget" their past life, as if you would remember anything. When you die, you dissolve into wholeness, the Ultimate Experiencer

>>16970079
Like I said they tell it like it is. If you believe all humans possess a spark, even unrealized, then they will return again and again until they see through the Great Deceit

>>16968080
>>16968080
>>16968080
>mfw playing Persona 5
>mfw when the final boss ended up being Yaldabaoth
It had a great theme OP listen to this https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=QYTB9eWxZJk

>>16970109
This is a boring take

>>16970008
>>16970016
>>16970028
>>16970060
Gnostics believed what everyone in the classical world did: the planets were stars affixed to crystal spheres. They also believed that the spheres were barriers that imprisoned souls in the world. They had no knowledge of planetary magnetism. Saying they did is a retcon.

>>16970109
What are you talking about? Gnostics already distinguish between soul as a creation of the Demiurge and pneuma as timeless acosmic locus.

Your "wholeness" is an evil cosmic vampire-minds feeding on bodies to feed it images. Combine Averroes' monopsychism with Bakker's Outside and a motion of the Universal Soul as Demiurge and you have a recipe for a long stay in the nuthous

>>16970119
>If you believe all humans possess a spark, even unrealized, then they will return again and again until they see through the Great Deceit
The spark will return, not the humans. If the goal is the ultimate realization of the individual, then you only get a single try. After that your memories are gone and the spark comes back as someone else entirely.

>>16970060
>Hodgson believed spirits are recycled in planetary magnetospheres, Gurdjieff that souls are imprisoned by solar systems
Why would you believe these people?

>>16970136
Gnosis isn't constrained by the insights of the past. I build on what I see and understand, and what the past understood in its own language.

>>16970147
There's also Robert Monroe who actually documented many OBE experiences and attested to the same thing. And the hundreds of testimonies on >>16968382

>>16970144
Then that individual gets a single a try, hope you didn't roll hylic

>>16970147
Because i'm not a lizard person

>>16970140
What I don't get is, why is this vampire-mind so hungry for images?

>>16970161
Don't forget the Loosh Rote.

>>16970151
Well YOU can believe whatever you like. Just don't claim they believed things they didn't.

>>16970164
>if you don't believe the solar system is a soul prison you're a lizard
Gnostics should stay on /x/ where they clearly belong

>>16970167
It's hungry for stimulation, intensities, I guess. It's alone and sucking it's down dick in the void. Gnostics want to believe there is something prior to pagan chaos.

All this shit is so fucking confusing. Gnosticism, Neoplatonism, Christianity itself and its mysticism like what Eckhart wrote about, not to mention the Dharmic views, the contemporary comments on all of it like what Jung did... All the diverging visions individually branch off into their own sub-interpretations and I can't make sense of any of them, there's too much information to take in. I feel like there's a way to tie everything together, but how can I do that before having explored all of the possibilities in order to later connect them together?
One lifetime isn't enough to truly understand all of this.

>>16970135
Yeah because there is only one Truth which is self-evident. We are the Absolute Son that experiences all that the Absolute Father (of whom we are a part of) bestows upon us. The Absolute Father is omniscient awareness i.e it is Awareness with infinite loci of attention. The Absolute Son is the creation of the Father as it limits itself to one locus of Awareness

>>16970194
>I guess
The foundation of your belief system is a guess?

>>16970180
Literalists don't belong here. Look at the ophite cosmology and tell my you aren't looking at a 2nd century imagining of the solar system's magnetosphere, with Leviathan circumscribing the whole thing.

>>16970190
Yup, seethe and dilate and all that good stuff.

>>16970175
I know what loosh is but what is meant by the term "loosh rote"?
>>16970164
>hope you didn't roll hylic
How am I supposed to even know? I'm guessing being distressed by all of this at least makes me a psychic, r-right

>>16970200
>how can I do that before having explored all of the possibilities in order to later connect them together
Read:
Jung
Neumann
Peterson
My archived posts, more specifically the ones on cock&ball nondualism

>>16970167
Soulfood, anon. It feeds on the intensities of souls like we feed on tendies and krispy kreme. Imagine all the different "flavors" of souls given our infinitely varied experiences in the simulation.

>>16970200
Read for a long time my friend, and you'll come to it. I want to tell you something very important: the information available to you is unprecedented, the information's all here, but the connections haven't been built yet, genius now lies in petaflop meta-patterns. Work hard at it and I guarantee you'll come to a new vision of God

>>16970219
Will this actually make me understand everything or will I just understand your own ideology?
>>16970227
Do you have indications to share at least? I'm really lost, the more I learn, the more I realize I know jack shit. I'm starting with scripture, currently reading the Bible and the Bardo Thodol then I'll get to the Nag Hammadi, I already dabbled in Jung but not enough, I have a bunch of things on my list but they're disjointed and disorganized. If only there was some kind of Ariadne's thread that could help me not feel completely lost, but I guess that's part of the challenge.

>>16970238
What you're looking for is the sort of inspiration only your own synthetic meta-pattern can give you, like once you know it clicks you'll know where to head next because you'll be able to make almost anything you read apply to the idea growing in your head, besides that just read Hans Jonas. He's still the best high level intro to gnosticism and connects with existentialism to keep it relevant (but it's always been relevant).

>>16970268
Thanks friend.
I hope it'll click eventually, though. There's no guarantee.

Good thread, Gods.
Anyone know of any Gnostic fiction? Or music, for that matter?

>>16970226
Listen man, all I'm saying is that there's no basis to believe any of this stuff

>>16970209
If you don't like literalism why is it so important to update Gnosticism from crystal spheres to magnetic fields so it squares with modern astrophysics?

The Ophite diagrams are just sets of circles. They don't look anything like a magnetic field. Magnetic fields have a definite structure which even the ancients could have determined. Don't know if they did, but the experiment is simple. In the 2nd and 3rd centuries no one thought the planets were magnetic.

>>16970190
This is a philosophical discussion. /x/ is too retarded to have one.

>>16970238
>Will this actually make me understand everything or will I just understand your own ideology?
That's for you to decide, no? I've made quite a few posts on comparative mythology and depth psychology that I think presents some semi-original work. >>16909594 and >>16791006 (I'm frogposter) on the archives if you're interested.
>pic also somewhat related

If you don't care for my interpretation and just want further reading, Neumann's Origins and History of Consciousness is a very lucid and comprehensive psychoanalytic study in any case. Seeing as you have a basis in Jung it shouldn't be too hard to get into.

>>16970293
There's no basis not to believe it either. If only you knew how bad and beautiful things really are

>make thread hoping christians will debunk gnosticism and make me feel comfy and carefree again
>get sensible posts from gnostics instead comforting me in the idea that the black prison is indeed real
Oh man

>>16970293
People say Evangelion and Texhnolyze are quintessentially gnostic anime but I don't see it. They're good nonetheless, especially the latter.

i'm sorry but gnosticism just makes sense to me

>>16970308
If you want to go on believing that the whole of existence is a soul farm/torture chamber for an evil entity, be my guest. But it is something that you WANT to believe, make no mistake

>>16970308
>If only you knew how bad and beautiful things really are
Especially bad judging by what's been said so far ITT, not much beauty

>>16970307
No, you seem to know what you're talking about, I'll check everything out. Thanks.

>>16970303
That's because there isn't the slightest interest in reconciling the ophites with modern science, it's a vision of reality as a concentric series of capture-vectors, whose fullest intensities we "experience" at death, language has castrated the reality of these things you think you know, if you could see Saturn up close you'd shit your colon, now combine this with Nicholas of Cusa's intuition that planets are higher dimensional entities "rolled up" or limited by 3-dimensional space (maximal vs. extended moon, Deleuze talks about this, fight me) and you have yet another recipe for the crack house

Are hallucinogenic experiences good or bad to help break free? What people see on DMT is similar to how archons are described, so gaining first hand experience might be fruitful.

>>16970350
Glad to be of use. Don't go thinking I know what I'm talking about though, I don't want that kind of responsibility. It's (mostly) conjecture and I give zero fucks about what the canonical interpretation of something is.

>>16970303
What exists beyond these celestial spheres that trap souls? Other realms?

>>16970293
Persona 5

>>16969413
>archons testing you with illusory phantasms
>aerial toll houses
Was he a crypto-gnostic?

>>16970354
Well that's an interesting way of looking at it, but it's not the way the Gnostics conceived it. You're doing a syncretism.

Deluze is a fucking loon.


>>16970399
I think once you get outside the last one you can go wherever you want. Not all gnostics had the same planetary archon model though. Ballsidies believed in a system involving 365 archons and a master archon, Abraxas.

>>16970092
That metaphysical solipsism would imply that what gnostics describe as a prison is in fact a prison of our own making. That what is perceived as archons holding you back from ascending is just yourself not wanting to ascend just yet.

>>16970354
Actually now that I think more about it I believe where your error lies in your understanding of planetary magnetism.

I haven't read the Gnostic texts very deeply. Do they describe being drawn towards the Archons, or simply having to work your way past them?

If all of the material realm is evil, then how do we perceive beauty and goodness in nature?

>>16970530
>Do they describe being drawn towards the Archons
Not him but "empirical" evidence suggests this to be the case, with the "white light" seen by people who have almost died being always described as an irresistible attractor.

>>16970581
Intresting. There's the "the white light is a trick" meme. I haven't read much about it. How does it being an irresistible force square with being a trick. The latter implies you can decline.

>>16970605
Oh never mind
>Going to light -- many nders report being drawn to the light like a magnet and use phrases like 'I found myself going through a tunnel toward a light'. Now what I think is happening is that most find the light attractive and go there by choice whether consciously or subconsciously but there is an element of being pulled once they desire to go to the light.

>>16970622
The degree of magnetism being reported varies, some saying it's irresistible, others saying it increased once they formulated an inner desire to go towards the light.
Perhaps attraction is proportional to your attachment to this world. This would make sense, anyway.

>>16970622
>>16970655
As for the trick part, I'll let you read the website posted earlier ITT, but a lot of people report emotional pressure (seeing loved ones, having beings show them what'd happen to their family if they died, etc), dangling of some vague notion of duty ("you have a mission, you need to come back"), seeing figures of authority appear and thell them to go back (Jesus, various other prophets, even archons in the most etymological sense i.e. entities exuding an impression of power and sovereignty)...
I'm guessing it's possible to refuse, but it must be difficult.

What if it is an illusion, just not a prison?

>>16970444
Gnostics were nothing if not the most topwit of syncretists.

>>16970448
No, let go of these Abrahamic guilt narratives, it's a prison because I am contained in it against my will.

>>16970751
>it's a prison because I am contained in it against my will.
This is incompatible with the view expressed in >>16970092
I also fail to see how gnosticism is a syncretism in any meaningful sense.

>>16970416
Yes, like the Egyptians and their demon-houses, and the Tibetans, if you want to be crude. Passage through the toll-houses = liberation from planetary dynamos.

>>16970775
It's easy to reconcile solipsism with an external frame. The external frame exists but is only accessed "solipsistically", through subjects (or individuals, which I prefer)

>>16970779
>if you want to be crude
What's crude about the tibetan view?

>>16970795
I meant if you want to be crude about calling Egypt and Tibet "crypto-gnostic"

>>16970793
>is only accessed "solipsistically", through subjects
I don't understand. Doesn't metaphysical solipsism posit a form of ontological monism where no object is independent from the subject? As such, how can there be an external frame?

>>16970219
>read Peterson
Peterson reduces everything metaphysical to the realm of the mind. He should be entirely ignored for anything non related to jungian psychoanalysis of your school and work life.. Lmao.

>>16970331
No it's something I'm compelled to believe by overwhelming evidence.

>>16970808
>Peterson reduces everything metaphysical to the realm of the mind
Nothing stands in the way of you ignoring that part of his thesis.

>>16970812
>overwhelming evidence.
What evidence?

Are Gnostics the 2020 version of fedora atheists? I saw a totally unrelated YT video yesterday and someone in the comments refuted Christianity by saying Jesus wasn't a real person, but instead of pulling the usual Dawkins trick, he added that Jesus is a metaphor for the Good god and that the Biblical God is Shaitan.

>>16970808
peterson is a fucking hack

>>16970824
He has nothing else of value. Watch his lion king symbolism video. He lives in the realm of mind and matter interaction. Nothing larger exists in his works.

>>16970854
>Nothing larger exists in his works.

>>16970805
Because internal access has to take the form of an objectivity. You're tied to this frame that you leech existence off of. It's because you are alone with yourself that you're a prisoner, not a God (yet).

>>16970827
Death, suffering, and nutrition

>>16970886
Then it can't be called solipsism.

>>16970922
>still getting filtered by the problem of evil

>>16970838
No. Early gnostics believed Jesus was Nous.

>>16970939
If by solipsism you mean a transcendental subjectivity, then yeah it can.

>>16970961
Please. The greatest filter is thinking it's been solved. I bet you think the chinese room is bunk too.

Is the clarity of consciousness increased or decreased after death?
Because if it's like a dream and we're just on autopilot, we don't stand a chance.

>>16970977
>If by solipsism you mean a transcendental subjectivity,
No, that's not what metaphysical solipsism means. I guess we're talking past each other.

>>16970988
You mean we are on autopilot now? I think that without all the physical distractions clarity would be increased.

>>16970977
Not him but why are you bringing up the Chinese room?
>>16971007
No I meant it in the dream sense, you know how your consciousness is impaired during dreams? If that's how we are in the after death state, it'll be impossible to not fall for the trap again.

>>16970703
For some reason I find theories like these compelling, but they don't answer anything.
Imagine you die and wake up in some futuristic stasis chamber; does that answer any existential questions? If anything, it only raises more.
Still, I want to believe we aren't trapped here.

>>16971015
>you know how your consciousness is impaired during dreams?
Sometimes. But not all the time. Only when I go to sleep over tired, undernourished, drug hazy etc etc.
Practice lucidity bro.

>>16971050
Are you lucid during all your dreams?
I've been writing a dream journal for a year now and I haven't gotten any lucid dreams, I just remember them better.

>>16971015
there's this constellation of anti-life/anti-subjectivity/pro-AI/pro-evolution lizard people ideologies that all sort of gel together that is really easy to pick out in a line up

>>16970988
on the one hand, the closest thing you'll get to knowing your "death" "self" is the self that you are in your dreams, on the other >>16971007
this intuition is sound. it's not impossible to imagine both these facts on the same spectrum

Thinking about gnosticism crushes whatever hope I have left for living

>>16971084
That would imply that the best way to prepare for death is to practice lucid dreaming and other forms of naturally induced altered states of consciousness

>>16971083
Nope. Semi-lucid more than I am hazy, but hazy more than I am lucid. If that makes sense lol.
It took me about two years to be able to remember more than 30 second snippits of my dreams.
Diet and exercise play a role too.

>>16971104
With some qualifications, and no effort spared to distance yourself from new age rainbow gremlins,Yes.

>>16971108
What do you mean by semi-lucid?

>>16971102
It shouldn't. there are beings of light, too

>>16971113
>to distance yourself from new age
That's tricky since people like Bob Monroe can easily get thrown into the new age category yet have made some very interesting contributions to this subject.

>>16971123
I thought everything was the self? Isn't Christ a symbol for it?
Also there being light beings doesn't serve much purpose if they can't save you.

>>16971120
Awareness during autopilot. I recognize what Im doing, can think about it, but it still happens on autopilot anyway unless I force out of it.

>>16970323
I don't know if Tex is gnostic, but it and Haibane Renmei are the only two anime I would without a single hint of irony consider to be true art.
Haibane Renmei deals with the subject of the afterlife, though it's more related to purgatory than any gnostic views.

>>16971134
They do save you, the gnostic savior saves himself, you're lifted up by your own hand, etc. he is that subject who is a recipient of his own causal power TO save, starting with himself.

>>16970212
See above.

>>16971143
i find the japanese are anti-gnostic by disposition, must be that animism, on the one hand Eva is a rejection of a gnostic beyond in the most formal sense, on the other it's a rejection of an all-swallowing ungrund/Neoplatonic One (?) and affirmation of the individual and plane of phenomena so far as that plane alone is where the war is fought. it's complicated.

>>16971144
That means you can only rely on yourself which is still pretty hard to swallow when western soteriology is based on a superior entity taking care of your soul.

>>16971135
Like you have consciousness/awareness but don't know that you're dreaming? Or you know but you can't help your actions?

>>16971171
No, it's Western soteriology "orientalized" if you want to be crude: you are in identity with the superior being that saves you, you just don't know it yet.

>>16971166
As stated earlier in the thread, animism (well, in the Taoist sense) can be reconciled with some gnostic sensibilities, quite harmoniously too.
Eva is anti-gnostic in that the rejection of Instrumentality leads to a return to the material world, but in its aesthetic and delivery it's quite ambiguous too.

>>16971222
trips of sensible truth. yeah I don't disagree. there's a far greater intersection between gnosti and "taoist", "zen", or "naturalist" dispositions than there is mostly anything in the Western church

>>16971188
>you just don't know it yet.
What happens when you realize it? Gnosticism denied Neoplatonism because it sees the One as a destruction of the Self, but isn't identification with a higher self phenomenologically identical?

>>16971182
I have consciousness and awareness, know that Im dreaming, some times I can even compare to real life. But yeah for the most part cant help the actions.

>>16971265
Man I wish I had such experiences. I'm a fucking retard in my dreams

>>16970675
Wait, are they being tricked into leaving the light or into approaching it?

>>16971257
no, it's the absolute affirmation of a self consummated in its alienation from the cosmos, not in its identification with it.

>>16971278
Approaching it, the light is the "machine" that reincarnates you

>>16971281
I'm not sure I get it, I'll have to think about it more in depth.

>>16968264
plato offers the most beautiful of souls eternal contemplation of ideas, plotin places his monos above even that though

>>16971237
>there's a far greater intersection between gnosti and "taoist", "zen", or "naturalist" dispositions than there is mostly anything in the Western church
It's interesting that Gnosticism is compatible with doctrines that would initially seem far removed from it, yet diverge so obviously from the very religion it is said to stem from. It's really in its own category.

>>16971273
Comes with practice bro. Ive spent a long time trying to live in my dreams. Like each day was just a time waste until I could sleep.

>>16971317
What were your techniques aside from the dream journal?

>>16971305
It was mentioned already but [neo]platonism's conception of the unqualified as a dissolution of individualized existence rather than its sublimation really bothers me
Phaedo's still cool though

>>16971298
This guy gets it >>16971350

you either dissolve into the cosmos, or are singularized outside it

>>16969906
Does the gnostic believe that we have souls or that we are souls, then? Or something in between the two? The difficulty is detaching agency from memory, I guess. Is the me with memories a caretaker for the perfectly simple self?

>>16971366
>outside it
Isn't it integrated?

>>16969646
Once you break out, just hit up the Akashic records my dude. No pressure.

>>16971330
Not him but doing reality checks and trying to fall back asleep with the intention of becoming lucid are two other big ways.

Reality checks are attempts to test the laws of physics. You get in the habit of doing them during the day and when you're dreaming you'll be more likely to try them. There's lists of these on the net. Most effective for me has been trying to stretch a finger by pulling on it. Reality checks stop working after awhile so you have to switch them up.

Really though the dream journal is the most powerful technique, by an order of magnitude. It also takes the most effort. But it's extremely rewarding. Perhaps the most rewarding writing you can do, apart from writing a bestseller.

Is prayer a thing in Gnosticism?
Abrahamic have prayer and liturgy and Buddhists and Hindus have meditation and yoga but what do gnostics do to achieve gnosis?

>>16971394
Well the issue is I'm already doing the dream journal, I have hundreds of entries. Most of them are between fifteen and thirty lines, so they're fairly detailed, but never lead to lucidity.
Thanks for the advice. I tried reality checks but always forget to do them, I'll have to acquire some discipline

>>16971403
they pray to the light inside them which is all prayer's ever been

>>16971421
Stuff like Our Father and the like don't strike me as soliciting inner strength but rather asking to receive it from outside. How to you pray to something that's inside you?

>>16971420
Yeah it's a mindset. You have to remember to do them when anything unusual happens, or whenever you find yourself contemplative. It's a habit to develop.

With the dream journal go back and read entries with an eye towards symbolism. Take the Freudian view that it's a metaphoric commentary on your life. But don't use his actual methods. His essay on Da Vinci is a perfect example of how to do dream interpretation wrong.

>>16971330
Sorry if this is a bit too /x/, but
Holding onto feelings from your dream. Say you can remember a segment in the morning, it gives you a certain sensation, emotion, feeling, idea etc. Hold onto that throughout the day. Eventually can build up like a bank of those moments, feelings whatever you wanna call them.
Try associate areas in real life with dream areas. Doesnt have to be picture for picture comparison but use the sensations. Like for example you are standing in the lobby of a building, may be reminiscent of a building in your dreams.
If you get a real strong sense of deja vu dont try connect it to memories of life. Try connect it to memories of your dreams. The points above become good references.
Recognize all the parallels between life and dream, remember them, reinforce them.

I like to think dream consciousness is a higher level of consciousness than waking consciousness, but they arent separate, they influence each other.

clarity of my dreams really ramped up when I started listening to certain types of music. drain gang and sadboys primarily. exposing yourself to media thats "dreamy" may def have an effect

>>16971466
I've read the Interpretation of Dreams, I found it overly procedural and rigid, but I guess that's to be expected. Is the Jungian method better? Or should I just go with pure intuition?

>>16971437
>How to you pray to something that's inside you?
By thinking it's outside of you.

>>16971490
Based

>>16971370
not a 'soul' per se but rather a sort of spiritual identity, is the way I have it anyway

>>16971480
ahahahahh I can't fucking believe it, literally listens to bladee and becomes enlightened

>>16971480
Alright I'll try those methods too then, thanks anon.
>I like to think dream consciousness is a higher level of consciousness
Not lower?
Though I think a hierarchy might not be the best way to think of it.
>media that's "dreamy"
Yeah I had that intuition too. Though it hasn't done much for me so far kek

What happens when you have an OBE and explore the astral planes? Is the astral still a part of the prison? Is it a part of yourself and was Monroe deluded and wrong?

This was an interesting thread, why aren't there more gnostic threads on /lit/?

>>16971611
It's hard to have it stay /lit/ and not /x/.
Case in point >>16971551 would be better off asking that here >>>/x/26907196

>>16971659
/x/ has much lower quality posters than /lit/ on average. I can rarely manage to squeeze out anything coherent out of them so I stopped making threads there.

>>16971535
I mean higher as in like further away from reality. So yeah, not a hierarchy thing.

>>16971506
:^)

>>16971437
The interesting thing about the formula of traditional prayer is it's phrased as a command or a spell. Yes you're taught that you should recite it in the spirit of a humble request, but The Lord's Prayer doesn't contain a single solicitation, only orders.

>>16971483
Jung says most dream symbols are universal, but the interpretation is personal. Like how an alphabet or ideograms can be arranged to mean anything. Symbols are not just images, but also themes. Like running from a thing you can't see, or fighting with useless weapons. Jung is very instructive in this regard, but in the end it's always about using your intuition.

Frued is good in that he identifies the source of dream content: most of the time it's going to be stuff that you experienced the previous day or WARNING: HYLICS, DO NOT READwill experience tomorrow. Although that last bit comes from Dunne, not Freud. That it is a wish fulfillment is only true sometimes. Usually it's an opinion.

Frued's mistake in the Leonardo paper was trying to interpret someone else's dream for them. Psychoanalyst's should never try to do that unless it's extremely obvious. Instead they should help their patient's learn how to interpret their own dreams.

Freud made other mistakes like the Oedipus complex, but that's a nasty can of worms that doesn't belong here.

>>16971659
I asked here because people ITT seem to know what they're talking about

>>16971708
>will experience tomorrow
Am I hylic if I don't remember this ever happening to me?

>>16971480
This is good advice.

Also read this and try its techniques. Available on Zlib/libgen.

>>16971708
>it's phrased as a command or a spell.
Isn't that meant to symbolically give strength to YHWH's authority?

>>16971741
Have you ever tried Michael Raduga's AP method? He boasts a very high success rate and using it was the only time I came close to an OBE.

>>16971708
Not necessarily tomorrow in my experience. I had a dream 10 or so months ago where my apartment got flooded with water. I interpreted this as a shower of liquidity and bough several lottery tickets. I didn't win anything and a few weeks after that my apartment got flooded for real.

>>16971791
>I interpreted this as a shower of liquidity and bough several lottery tickets
>I didn't win anything and a few weeks after that my apartment got flooded for real
Sorry anon but this is funny.

>>16971791
kek, modern day genesis

>>16971734
Most people, even practicing mystics like the ones in this thread, can only remember one of two explicitly prophetic dreams. Usually the foreshadowing is symbolic. Which is why you should read prior entries. Read yesterday's entry before bedtime and look for things that might allude to the day you just had. When you do this enough you'll start having the experience of recognizing the foreshadowing as the event occurs

>Oh so this is what that was about.

>>16971754
I'd think that if the phrasing were meant to reinforce His authority TLP would be "Lord I beseech you to not let me fall into temptation." Instead it's phrased as an order.

I don't know what this actually means, and I don't believe that early Christians were taught they were just telling God what to do, but I find the formula interesting.

>>16971780
Never heard of it. Can you explain it?

>>16971791
Yeah. That's another place where Freud has it wrong. The time horizon isn't fixed, but it's *usually* twelve waking hours in either direction. Freud liked to talk as if there were no exceptions to his observations.


I wonder if dreams are ever recursive: e.g. symbolic of prior dreams.

>>16971887
> Can you explain it?
Sure but my memory's hazy.
Basically, you go to bed with "intention", telling yourself that you will have an OBE that night. You set an alarm for 5-6 hours after you expect to fall asleep. When the alarm rings, you get up, go take a piss, maybe drink some water, eventually reread the instructions, try to make your awake time last from 10 to 30 minutes. Then go back to bed, still with intention.
The next time you wake up (naturally) you should then immediately try one of the "getting out of body" methods recommended (having your astral body sit up, pulling yourself out of your body, rolling out, etc).

The first time I tried it, I used the "sitting up" technique and for a second or two I really did feel an incorporeal body detaching from my usual body, I could see around me despite my eyes being closed, though my surroundings were bathed in a weird dim light, and I could hear a very strange, loud noise that I'd describe as being between the sound of cicadas and a didgeridoo or throat singing. It was bizarre and scary so I snapped back to my actual body almost immediately.
I tried it several times since and it didn't work. I wonder what I'm doing wrong.

so what do i read to understand what gnosticism IS
i don't want to be "initiated", i just want to know how it came about, where it came about, what its practitioners did and still do
maybe modern takes and stuff like that but yeah

>>16971995
Can you even be initiated?
I thought gnosis has to be transmitted which basically makes every modern day gnostic (except mandaeans) unable to reach gnosis

>>16972020
you're already saying stuff that i can't fully understand, just give me a book which is a good primer on gnosticism
then i can learn what gnosis is, how one reaches it, transmits it and does whatever the hell he pleases with it

>>16972020
gnostics self-initiate

>>16971995
>>16972047
hans jonas

>>16972059
How does self-initiation work?

>>16972059
>hans jonas
pic related is what you had in mind, i suppose?

>>16972098
yes. it's the best single introduction you'll find

>>16972080
spontaneous grace, revelation, facilitated by praxis

>>16971971
Oh okay. Yeah this one's really common. I've never heard it attributed to any particular author.

This has worked for me before, but I've had less success with it. Generally all of my OBE success comes when waking naturally in the morning and intending to have one before I start moving around. You need to still be tired enough to be deeply relaxed. There's a kind of energy feeling I try to connect with, where you feel your astral form buzzing a bit, and that's what I focus on identifying with and feeling. Then I intend to move out of my body and I do. I've successfully turned every bout of sleep paralysis in the last two years into an OBE.

>>16972080
You study a lot, think about what you're studying, do practical excercises: prayer, meditation, etc.

Franz Bardon's 'Initiation into Hermetics: A Practice of Magic' is a good example of how self-initiation works. It's basically a how-to guide for becoming an occultist on your own.

>>16971143
Haibane Renmei and Lain are both masterpieces.

>>16972989
>Lain
Isn't that just zoomer Akira?

>>16973241
Akira is zoomer Lain

>>16973346
Hot take, Slavoj.