/lit/ - Literature

Religion is metaphysics for the people. Metaphysics as a kind of religion is better than science or politics.

They share some common ground, in the sense that both explore questions that fall outside of the realm of scientific inquiry. But just because my dick has a curve doesn't make it a banana.

Is Julius Evola good to read or is he too far out there? He intrigues me but I'm almost nervous to read him, maybe in case of what he's saying is true after all. Just look at this motherfucker though, I can see something in his soul.

>>16971220
This

>>16971220
This
>>16971279
True, though science itself fall outside of the realm of scientific inquiry.

Metaphysics is investigational, while religion is doctrinal. Religions do not provide questions about the nature of being, they provide answers. There is somewhat of a relationship, but it is not strong and there is a major difference. Both are motivated by a desire to understand the "why" of things and the grand scheme of the world.

Religions are also organizational and institutional in a way that metaphysical theories never are. They are proscriptive and tell you how to behave.

>>16971320
science isn't a banana either

>>16971279
>>16971320
>>16971339
Maybe a banana isnt a banana

>>16971193
Depends on what you mean by it.
Do you mean simple Aristotelian metaphysics? As in the relationship of the physical, size, movement, placement, etc? No, that’s incredibly retarded to think it’s religious.
Do you mean a real metaphysical substance or substrate? Interplanar realms for the mind like Descartes? Or some kind of monad constructing an illusory world? Yeah that shits incredibly retarded and schizo to believe

>>16971300
Evola is complete bullshit, he is useful if you want to understand nazi superstition from the outside, but to read metaphysics read, Descartes, Spinoza Leibniz, Hume, Berkeley, Kant, Hegel, Mctaggart, Bergson, Whitehead, Deleuze, Heiddegger, Carnap.

>>16971391
What if I actually agree with the green text? Is it too late for me? Am I that fucking crazy. I might have mild schizophrenia anyway. The supposed spiritual world is seeming more real to me than the material world. Should I keep reading into it to complete my transformation into full schizo?

>>16971460
Now i'm talking about theology but:
There's other ways to approach the spiritual worlds than the paranoid last two lines which the greentexts presents, try reading the carmelite saints St. Teresa of avila, St. Terese of Lisieux and St. John of the Cross - you can read this together with Slavoj Zizek's five books on hegelian christianity or Simone Weil.

Else you can visit a real hindu tempel and engage with real authentic non-nazi hinduism.

Evola is just one of those demons who take your spiritual need and transforms it into political hatred.

>>16971193
Metaphysics is a tool available to reason in order to arrive to God. But of course it can be misused.

>>16971562
>t. St. Aquinas

>>16971391
>no Schopenhauer

>>16971632
Tried to get to contemporary metaphysics as fast as possible

>>16971193
Metaphysics is an outgrowth of religious/ritual thought. It is religious thought that has forgotten its origin, i.e. its mediation by the sacred. This mediation was rediscovered, and consequently the futility and obsolescence of metaphysics realized (albeit in a limited metaphysical vocabulary) by Nietzsche and the thinkers of 20th century. Metaphysical thought granted us supremacy over the practical world, but ultimately it constituted a bastardisation and confusion. In this sense it's bottoming-out was inevitable.

>>16971460
What did you think about my answer?: >>16971550

>>16971300
He isn't "too far out there" but you have to read carefully otherwise you'll become a schizoposter. I have only good things to say about my experience with his works.
>>16971391
>>16971550
You haven't even read Evola you fucking queer, stop acting like some authority on him. "NAZI NAZI NAZI" take your meds, liberation theology schizo retard. Fucking shit grade retard. "Heeey you're asking about metaphysics, READ FUCKING DESCARTES". Then you go on and call other people "demons", lmao. Fucktard.

>>16971193
Yes in the sense that it makes unverifiable dogmatic claims

>>16972241
>read carefully or you’ll become a schizo
>paragraph of expletives with NAZI NAZI NAZI thrown in for good measure

>>16972241
>You haven't even read Evola
Read some: it's shit fascist apologia and bad history.

>Then you go on and call other people "demons", lmao. Fucktard.
I of coarse didn't mean a literal demon... cringe

>"Heeey you're asking about metaphysics, READ FUCKING DESCARTES"
Yes, he is essential in understanding Leibniz & Spinoza, furthermore the problem of dualism comes up constantly in contemporary metaphysics. So Descartes is extremely important background reading.

>>16972296
I have seen these stupid wet paper grade takes on Evola virtually every time he's been brought up, how do you expect me to react? This is a literature board, if you don't read just shut the fuck up, for god's sake just shut the fuck up.

>>16971193
Did you even read the book in the image you posted? The answer is no.

>>16972309
>Read some: it's shit fascist apologia and bad history.
Nice, nice, so what did you read? What "fascist apologia" and "bad history" are you referring to?
>Yes, he is essential in understanding Leibniz & Spinoza, furthermore the problem of dualism comes up constantly in contemporary metaphysics. So Descartes is extremely important background reading.
For your metaphysics, maybe.

>>16971193
Did you even read the first 20 pages of book in the image you posted? The answer is no.

>>16972344
I was quite excited about the grail legend so i listened to the audiobook about it while chilling and went through half of it being like "ok, so when does he stop talking about fascist apologia and start talking about an esoteric interpretation of the grail" same happened with men among the ruins. He's like a drunk uncle.

>>16972344
>For your metaphysics, maybe.
For the academic field of metaphysics my lad

>>16972389
What about the Myth of the Grail did you find disagreeable? I have it on my desk right now, name the issue and I'll look into it for you and we can have a chat about it. Men Among the Ruins is more complicated, but it's not "fascist apology" - it's him expounding his worldview, though if you believe in the immortal principles of liberte, egalite, fraternite there probably isn't much of a difference from your perspective.

>>16972396
>For the academic field of metaphysics my lad
Biggest self-own I've ever seen.

>>16972400
>if you believe in the immortal principles of liberte, egalite, fraternite there probably isn't much of a difference from your perspective.
Here's maybe the point where we agree. Freedom and love is essential virtues to me, through shared love brotherhood is created, through shared love of freedom moderate equality is created.

>>16972406
>I just want to be a pseud without academic review and discourse.

>>16972438
Freedom, love and brotherhood are ideals Evola prizes highly as well, though this might seem strange to you. The difference is that he conceives none of those things in a liberal or egalitarian light. Still, I don't think that justifies calling him a demon. If you've genuinely read him, you should know that his writing style is relaxed and tolerant - he lets the reader draw his own conclusions and does not attempt to stir the emotions into rabid hatred or whatever else his detractors may claim.
>I just want to be a pseud without academic review and discourse.
Academic inquiry into metaphysics is stale, trite, one-sided, conformist, unoriginal and subject to all of the biases that the hirelings of an Enlightenment system can be expected to have. Hence the self-own. If you had at least named Plato, that would demonstrate that your intellectual horizons extend past the worst period for metaphysics in the history of humanity, but you didn't name even one premodern thinker. I'd expect something like this from an academic, but not on my Tibetan basket weaving forum.

>>16972494
>If you had at least named Plato, that would demonstrate that your intellectual horizons extend past the worst period for metaphysics in the history of humanity
I expected people to have read the greeks, but Presocratics(especially heraclitus, parmenides, the atomists and xenophon), Plato, Aristotle, Sextus empiricus, Plotinus, Anselm, Giodano Bruno and then descartes etc.

>>16972494
>Freedom, love and brotherhood are ideals Evola prizes highly as well
This kinda contradicts your previous statement.
> if you believe in the immortal principles of liberte, egalite, fraternite there probably isn't much of a difference from your perspective.

>>16972546
>>16972576
>I expected people to have read the greeks, but Presocratics(especially heraclitus, parmenides, the atomists and xenophon), Plato, Aristotle, Sextus empiricus, Plotinus, Anselm, Giodano Bruno and then descartes etc.
You should have said as much bro, it would have reduced my autism by like 70%.
>This kinda contradicts your previous statement.
It doesn't. I think the main point of Evola's work is the pursuit of freedom. What's important is the definition of freedom you use. The liberals content themselves with the (at least theoretical) guarantee of freedom from outside interference in your life. The type of freedom important to Evola on the other hand is internal freedom. Is an alcoholic free? He is a slave to alcohol. The same thing can be said for the vast majority of human beings and the inane distractions they waste their lives on. The focus of a sizeable portion of Evola's work is to help some of these people free themselves from that. Love, too, occupies an important place in ensuring metaphysical wholeness - for example, look through the "Doctrine of Awakening" and see how many times he mentions love. In order to be truly free of slavery to desire, man must be impartial to all things - he must be capable of loving the terrible and hating the comfortable. Brotherhood is simpler - Evola just thinks it's an important aspect of spiritual growth for the individual and can serve as a great support. The whole "mannerbund" concept is popular in his milieu for this reason among others.

>>16971348
>only my metaphysics is okay
based retard

>>16972255
you have never seriously read a philosophical work, have you?

>>16972638
He is perpetually promoting an enslaving ideology of tradition, i can see the value of his biography as an aristocratic individual who really did exactly what he wanted, but his philosophy when read is just enslavement - fascist apologia - if you want to read about internal freedom i would advice you to read late Foucault.

>>16972638
Furthermore i have not met any Evola fan who does not agree with the schizo greentext of >>16971391

>>16971193
Going to post the first 5 pages of P&R since you decided to use it as the OP image and since they are helpful in defining the task of metaphysics.

>>16972780

>>16972789

>>16972797

What do you guys think of Buddhist metaphysics?

>>16972809

>>16972754
>>16972759
Your recommendation of Foucault despite my explanation on this particular view of inner freedom just now suggests that your problems with Evola are wholly partisan rather than intellectual. As to your schizo greentext, Evola criticises not only this mindset but these precise beliefs in chapter thirteen of his book "Men Among the Ruins", which you claim to have read. This without even considering that from Evola's perspective, a collective "racial soul" or "world soul" is a completely ridiculous conception.

>>16971391
>liberal LARPing as a bolshevik can't handle philosophy
start with lysis.

>>16971334
Fucking filtered. How old are you? 16?

>>16972823
As i stated i read half of those two books stopping because he just kept on going on about right wing politics - my partisanism is based in the belief that the reactionary system of belief is enslavement whereas only some left wing belief emancipates you. I engaged with Evola a time when i was both less well read and less left wing. Maybe I've just gotten him completely wrong, but then most /pol/tards on this board plus people like Survive The Jive has likewise misunderstood him. Furthermore what is Evola's opinion on the juice question?

>>16972930 here
I'm starting to get tired (as is clear in the way i write), so only one more reply and then I'm out

>>16972930 here
Furthermore the demon comment was based in that i think a spiritual need is well founded but most of the nazi evola fans I've seen just uses evola to transform a real spiritual need into >>16971391 this

>>16972930 here
But maybe I'm doing the same as when right wingers typically talk about Marx - if so, sorry.

autistic thread at its finest

>>16971193
No. Metaphysics uses logic to derive arguments. Religion does not derive its arguments at all, it doesn't even argue. It makes assertions on faith or revelation.
That said you can have religious thinkers who extrapolate a metaphysic informed by religious foundations.

>>16972930
>i tried to read his book but he kept talking about the stuff in his book
Why bother with the whole "no really guys I actually tried reading YOUR stuff and..." routine and just call him a Nazi or whatever? It's clear you're not actually engaging with the material and are just running off of memes.

>>16972930
>Maybe I've just gotten him completely wrong, but then most /pol/tards on this board plus people like Survive The Jive has likewise misunderstood him.
That's a given.
>Furthermore what is Evola's opinion on the juice question?
I would have to explain his understanding of race in order to give you the full picture, but to make a long story short, Evola thought that race has three components, which can be best described as body, soul and spirit. According to him, Jews are special in that they are not biologically or spiritually a separate race, but had their own psychological peculiarities - a Jewish race of the soul. An easier way to explain it might be to say they have their own culture with its own values. Evola thought that the typical Jew could only rarely interact with Europeans in a positive way, because his values were in opposition to those of the Europeans. As I mentioned earlier, however, since he considered Jews to be a "race of the soul" rather than a different race in all three aspects, this naturally means that some ethnic Jews with atypical values and character would not qualify as Jews, whereas gentiles who match the typically Jewish values and character would on the other hand belong to this Jewish race of the soul. As you can see for yourself, Evola had a very specific and nuanced view on the matter and it is hard to find any other figures with equivalent views.
As to the "Jews control the world" element, he disagreed with the idea that a Jewish conspiracy was at the heart of antitraditional subversion in the western world and instead held the view that conflicts between Jews and gentiles were being utilised by a historical force irreducible to any group of people or set of individuals. The aforementioned chapter thirteen warns against blaming the Jews for events and situations in which the Jews were often merely unwitting instruments.
With all that said, it would be disingenuous to pretend that Evola liked Jews or thought they were a beneficial or even neutral factor in the lives of Europeans. AFAIK he studied and enjoyed Kaballah and respected the highest traditions of the Jews, but found them broadly incompatible with his understanding of Indo-European spirituality.

>>16972188
Sometimes metaphysics does such things but just like religion itself metaphysics can be refined and become closer to the truth. The truths of religion and truths of metaphysics can both become a dead corpse, on top of their being falsehoods of religion and falsehoods in metaphysics. Science too can become a dead corpse. It must serve humans and it is only useful as much as it is useful to life. Simply having the knowledge is useful for some. investing billions to understand physics better is supposed to progress Humanity rather than just figuring things out. If it was only to have an understanding then we neglect human needs for the sake of brute knowledge that can't be put to use. Perhaps all this effort of science to find and understand better is itself an attempt to penetrate into metaphysics and religion.

>>16973062
I read the books because i was interested in esotericism and perenialism, Evola wasn't really scratching that itch

>>16973067
So still racialist essentialism but moderate in its execution? Or is racial soul just a bad metaphor for culture

>>16973134
>I read the books because i was interested in esotericism and perenialism, Evola wasn't really scratching that itch
Evola directs a lot of his efforts into discovering the spiritual meaning of seemingly profane aspects of life, such as kingship for example. Men Among the Ruins isn't the book you're supposed to read for perennialism - it's a guide he specifically wrote for postwar Traditionalists. If you want to see what insights he had about specific spiritual traditions, consult his books on those, such as for example Yoga of Power or his work on Hermeticism.
>So still racialist essentialism but moderate in its execution? Or is racial soul just a bad metaphor for culture
Depends on what you mean by essentialism? To give you a quick description of his definition of race, biological race would obviously govern what your body is like and how it functions, race of the soul would govern your psychological and emotional dispositions and race of the spirit determines the given person's approach to transcendence, so for example if he believes he can find transcendence within himself (solar) or outside himself (lunar) etc.
The race of the soul would be something like, say, being born in a northern European protestant household and consequently developing as a frigid, no nonsense, diligent individual. This is a very basic example.

>>16973067
>With all that said, it would be disingenuous to pretend that Evola liked Jews or thought they were a beneficial or even neutral factor in the lives of Europeans. AFAIK he studied and enjoyed Kaballah and respected the highest traditions of the Jews, but found them broadly incompatible with his understanding of Indo-European spirituality.
Sounds a little bit like a contradiction. Maybe the right respects those things that are further outward more. Such things would be important since the innermost is for the few. Personally I have found many Jews to be useful on things other than the innermost, the person coming to mind at the moment is Martin buber. What does Evola think of Christianity? Btw Did he think the Kabbalah was not a true inward expression?

>>16971193
Man whitehead is a smart bastard

>>16973286
I phrased myself poorly. Kaballah, as one of the highest traditions of the Jews, reflects the same perennial character and value that other major traditions reveal. Kaballah is properly esoteric, like the Hermetic doctrine for example - both lead down the same path to the same end goal. It is the rest of Jewish tradition that Evola considered broadly incompatible with Indo-European spirituality.
>What does Evola think of Christianity?
He was somewhere between disliking it and tolerating it - he thought that it had some redeeming features historically, but was unsuitable and alien to European character, in addition to being a "mutilated religion" because of its lack of a metaphysical level beyond the theistic one. He was willing to consider Catholicism as a basis for regenerating Europe, but found it wanting of will and energy for that purpose.
>Btw Did he think the Kabbalah was not a true inward expression?
No, Kaballah was certainly a proper esoteric tradition. In fact, one of the major influences on the Ur Group of which Evola was member of was Eliphas Levi, a French practitioner of that tradition.

>>16971460
The saturn thing is just misinformation, poisoning the well. No one who claims things about black cubes and saturn has put forward anything approaching a coherent explanation of what they claim these saturn worshipers believe.
Like, is it Satanism? Is Saturn the same thing as Satan? If so, does Greek/Roman mythology directly describe the actions of Satan (Saturn/Kronos)? What about all the other gods, how are they related? And if Saturn isn't Satan, what are they worshiping?
It's simply not a coherent theory. All they do is throw symbols at you, look a hexagon is a cube! Okay, so what? They will never tell you. If you want to know about secret Jewish cabals, look into real history like the Sabbatean Frankists.

>>16973330
Isn't kabala just the jewish version of Neoplatonism? The same way gematria was taken from geometry.

>>16973330
>but was unsuitable and alien to European character, in addition to being a "mutilated religion" because of its lack of a metaphysical level beyond the theistic one.
What did he mean by Beyond a theistic one? I must also begin to wonder why he wants it to be called Indo-European as if your opinion is not good enough and that it must be so closely tied to "Indo". When does a tradition become a tradition? maybe right thinkers have a harder time understanding Dynamic reality? I would certainly saying he is letting something evil getting in the way if he could not see the Kabbalah as something useful. It would have been a big red flag.

>>16973171
But the word race, typically, indicate an essentialism - something unchangeable about that person. Fx. a central african person doesn't become a northern eutopean.

>>16973433
>your opinion
*European lmao sorry.

>>16973046
>That said you can have religious thinkers who extrapolate a metaphysic informed by religious foundations.
Let me revisit this statement because the apparent inconsistency I noticed after posting it triggered my autism.

Metaphysical systems are make fabrications.But this is only because of a results rather than process driven style of thinking.

For example Thales of Miletus said all is water. Not the case. But metaphysics is about the train of thought that wonders about what things are made of in the first place and attempts to answer it. It's the attempt and the intention that counts, not the conclusion.

Saint Augustine was a metaphysician elaborated a metaphysics that combined Christian and platonic concepts. Such a metaphysics can still be logically coherent (axiomatically true with respect only to its own assertions; noncontradictory) and still rest on illogical religious premises.

>>16973391
In traditional symbology, Saturn represents the human body, specifically in its lower, inferior and animalistic aspects. In that sense, Saturn worship indicates extreme subversion, but all the schizo larping has nothing to do with that. As you mentioned, it's all just nonsense about black cubes, hexagons etc.
>>16973418
I wouldn't know about that. AFAIK Kaballah is a Jewish creation with a distinctly Jewish structure, but I am no expert on that. Of all the esoteric traditions I am familiar with, Kaballah has to be the one I know the least about.
>>16973433
>What did he mean by Beyond a theistic one?
Typically, a religion has a metaphysical or esoteric level beyond the theistic level. For example in Hinduism you have worship of the gods and later on also the Bhakti movement, which is very similar to religious devotion of the Christian style. There is, however, a level above theistic worship. The Bhagavad Gita is a short read if you'd like to familiarise yourself with the concept directly - Krishna reveals himself to Arjunas as not just a god, but a force in which all partake. Furthermore, Krishna even hints that it's possible to know this force in an even purer manner, by aiming to attain the Unmanifest rather than the favour of Krishna, though attaining the Unmanifest is supremely difficult. To put things another way, if a god is form, then pure transcendence is substance. The metaphysical level of a tradition engages with the latter, not the former. This is what traditions like Kaballah or Sufism do. Christianity has no equivalent - people like the Gnostics tried, but were destroyed.
>I must also begin to wonder why he wants it to be called Indo-European as if your opinion is not good enough and that it must be so closely tied to "Indo".
It's because according to Evola Indo-Europeans share a common civilisation based on common spiritual values. He does a lot of comparisons between Indian, Persian and classical age European spirituality, if you are interested. It's not that he thinks Europe needs to be more like India, it's rather that he thinks both Europe and India share the same superior ancestral roots.
>When does a tradition become a tradition? maybe right thinkers have a harder time understanding Dynamic reality?
Not sure what you mean here.
>I would certainly saying he is letting something evil getting in the way if he could not see the Kabbalah as something useful. It would have been a big red flag.
I am not sure where you are getting this from. As I said, Evola held Kaballah in high esteem. I tried to clear up the earlier confusion in this post >>16973330.

>>16973443
Okay so keep in mind that I have not been able to get an English translation of "Synthesis on the Doctrine of Race" yet and have tried to make do with small bits and pieces translated from Italian thus far or other descriptions of the concept (like in Path of Cinnabar for example). As far as I understand it, Evola thought that the race of the soul is something that you obtain during your lifetime through the natural formation of the psychology. Some of it is probably inherited, most of it is conditioned by life. This does not mean that this race of the soul is changeable anymore so than, say, a coward can suddenly decide to not be a coward or a hero not to be a hero. Race of the soul is something that is acquired, but is nevertheless permanent. So looking at things from Evola's perspective, it might be possible to bring up a central African in a way that allows him to develop a northern european "race of the soul", but his race of the body or spirit would still be central African. This would lead to a splitting and loss of cohesion, vitality and identity in the person in question, since his body and spirit will not fit his soul properly. Evola considers all three aspects of race together rather than individually.

>>16973391
confirmed to never have talked to "those retards"
>t. one of "those retards"

i will not fully explain it to you but i will give you a tidbit: they worship the cube because in numerology/pythagoreanism the number 6, and its geometric extensions of the cube and hexagon, represents the materialized world and the experienced universe. in and of itself it is not evil but the worship of it over God is. this is mysticism 101 and is painfully obvious to anyone with even a basic knowledge of Christian spiritualism. if you have the brainpower that i dont think you do then youll be able to piece together the answers to your other questions from that.

religion and metaphysics spring from a similar place. as aristotle says, first from wonder. we make speculative claims about how our experience might be possible, what its limits are, why we see things happen as they do. naturally this all feeds into a more prominent question (for us) which kant touches on- what may we hope? we garner interest in things only as much as we see the potential for understanding human finality in them. science for sciences sake is bullshit obviously, we are always looking for a wherfore, to know to what end things exist rather than how- these are often the same question for us. metaphysics is essentially a rational speculation of what can be hoped, religion is a bold assertion of it

>>16973574
>i will not fully explain it to you but i will give you a tidbit: they worship the cube because in numerology/pythagoreanism the number 6, and its geometric extensions of the cube and hexagon, represents the materialized world and the experienced universe. in and of itself it is not evil but the worship of it over God is.
See, this is what I'm talking about. I know a fucking cube is a hexagon. WHY is it important?

>>16973471
>illogical religious premises.
Illogical to someone that has not experienced certain things. Religion springs from mysticism. That implies direct contact with reality. But the system of atheism concludes that psychology is fundamentally from their naturalistic metaphysics and thus purely of nature. meanwhile Mystics are trying to express their experience which can come out in all kinds of different ways due to perception and usage of words. There is no reason why nature can't be naturalistic in one sense and deriving itself from something higher at the same time. One aspect of Nature is symbolic, it's a language, a capacity, an equation. But how someone interprets that language is based on their own experience. if another reality interferes with my understanding of it then I see that reality through the lens of nature. That would be the influx of a higher order of spirit into this reality. My point is that naturalistic metaphysics are not the only perception of something that is actually occurring and being experienced.

Corporeal reality and bodies are for expression and experience. They are a kind of expressed form. The Matrix of something like a soul is also a kind of expressed form... it appears to become more and more abstract since information is a highly fundamental part of reality. In my view nature is an effect of the cause of information interacting in a certain way. Mind and information are closely related, more so than say a rock and my thinking mind are. but my mind is a bundle of information and so is a rock. I equate intelligence with information, in this way I think the universe is nothing but pure intelligence or rather it is caused by intelligence. The form itself then does not have to be intelligence, only a logical expression which is something that intelligence does. since information and intelligence are so closely related a natural part of reality that one would expect is that intelligent beings would arise from it. Like gives birth to like. A rock just happens to be such a small part of intelligence that it at first does not seem to be related to intelligence.

>>16971647
Contemporary (postmodern) metaphysics is a bunch of Frenchmen Batailleans pretending they were influenced by Nietzsche (aka complete garbage).

>>16971300
I recommend you find a guide or something and start with some easier work of his instead of Revolt Against the Modern World. He can be dense at times. Also, some background in philosophy and religious/esoteric doctrines helps.

>>16973518
>schizo larping
The thing about schizos is that they are using parts of their mind which seems to be expressing more than typical logical people are used to. They are not always so irrational in as much as they are using longer chains of memories connected in their brain than some parts of the brain used to line upon line logic, or a more ordered logic are used to. It's like dream thinking. dreams themselves are logical but we may not always be able to completely derive the logic of them. then there is the element of paranoia which is common with them as well which might move them into expressing things in a certain way.

Some autistic people have a mind where when they think of one thing they just keep thinking about Connections to those things. Perhaps schizos have this pattern recognition which gets intermingled with their logical expressions. Brains are complex, I doubt I have fully expressed what their brains are doing.

>>16973986
>Illogical to someone that has not experienced certain things.
No it doesn't. Logic is analytic. Anything that is logical ought to be provable in symbolic terms. I just experienced the eternal truth that I should have a billion dollars. Who are you deny that?
Religion springs from mysticism.
i.e Religion springs from illogical premises. There are no way to rationally ground mystical premises. Mystic truths just pop into your head from on high. They are not derivable. The problem is one of arbitrariness. Any conclusion can be derived from consistent but unsound premises. Everything logical must be derivable from an explicable chain of reasoning. There are no hidden "magic moments" of revelatory truth.

I'm not denying explicitly that mysticism cannot produce true claims, in the same way I won't deny a broken clock isn't right twice a day.

Both metaphysics and religion are fabrications. Metaphysics becomes less so the more logic and evidence you add to it, at which point it becomes regular old physics. Religion in contrast ceases to exist when you add logic and evidence to it.

>>16973518
>Christianity has no equivalent
You're talkin about the godhead and the ungrund. Maybe even the essence in some traditions. Various Christian Mystics have talked about it. The omnipotence of God is not separated from the omniscience or any other Omni of God. God expressing himself and God as he is in himself are ultimately the same thing. The Trinity is describing the process on the highest levels, it is God's activity. It is God revealing himself and fulfilling himself by the powers of his own divinity. It's essentially God LARPing as himself. My brain can stop thinking but that does not mean that it does not have thoughts in it. mind does not only mean active intelligence or thinking.

what you talked about is something that still needs further clarity in mysticism. The thing about all these secondary expressions of God within some religions is that they thank gods are only an expression of the Ultimate Reality. So then you have Buddhist using a different word for God, the highest principle of reality. Personality is then reduced to some kind of secondary reality, even though Bliss is something that only a personality can have just like only personality can have wisdom or have love. Even the name of Buddha is in reference to personality, but often so is God.

Non-mind is a materialistic view of reality as the foundations of everything, that's why you mentioned substance rather than omnipotence or omniscience. How is God arising out of what is not God logical at all? Materialism and mind are the same thing. In the natural world one assumes material is somehow superior to mind or distinct from it because we seem to have came from it on this level of reality. but that already assumes that material is the foundational substance of reality. I say that personality or mind is closer to the true substance of reality. Only mind can have information. Deeper parts of God are only his simple nature of freedom, raw power, subjectivity, divine ease, the Eternal now containing all potentiality and selfhood. Chaos and Order are the same to an infinite mind, because it can account for everything.

>>16973518
>Not sure what you mean here
I'm really autistically spazzing out right now. Since Traditions are secondary expressions of Ultimate Reality why would one favor one over another as being superior? Subjectivity, perception, judgement, mind, freedom and desire. Those are more fundamental. They are more closely associated with the reality of spirit. The groundless ground is deeper than the root because the ground gives birth to the plant, the plant is the groundless grounds positive manifestation. The true root is the person. The idea of a certain specification of what a tradition is, is the root. There is no tradition apart from persons. Interpretation of tradition precedes tradition. tradition is more like an ecosystem then it is a single plant.

This is why actual experience is so important and why for instance in Christianity the law is considered to be a school teacher and Angel set over a young child. for the fallen Soul and Spirit are divided. Tradition is feminine in nature. The church is feminine. Holy scriptures are feminine. Nature is feminine.

God puts the Androgen in a deep sleep, the Androgen is the son of God, the microcosm. The duality of male and female is Fallen or ignorant or childish Humanity. It is Humanity without divinity. The woman is taken out of the androgen and then the woman gets deceived and confused by the serpent, eats of the fruit and gives it to her husband. since the woman is taken out of the man it means that the man has more fullness of Truth, as a symbolic designation for things, because the word rib in Hebrew means curve, like a fragment of a circle is a curve. That's why angels are set over children. when something is set over something else that something setting over is considered masculine in relation to what it is set over. Androgyny is then the fullness of the microcosm, it is not a fragment of God but rather complementary to the fullness of the macrocosm. The microcosm is feminine in relation to the macrocosm, but they are not distinct or separated from each other.

>>16973518
>I am not sure where you are getting this from. As I said, Evola held Kaballah in high esteem
I didn't Express that clearly enough. I was giving evola a high-five because I said maybe he would have been a Nazi if he just flat-out rejected the Kabbalah, but he perceives something good in it which means the accusations of him being a schizo jew-hater are probably not true. if his perceptions were of some kind of inferior Spirit then he would have less to offer. Since he has the capability of acknowledging the Kabbalah, he may not be so biased and as enslaved to such evil spirits as some claim.

>>16971279
Why is your dick curved

>>16971193
No, metaphysics is not even close to the deffinition of religion. If you are smart enough, go read a book and do not do questions like that here, because your mind will get contaminated with the brainrot of this fucking site.

>>16973993
Mate, i love Bataille, but he's really not famous in contemporary metaphysics.

>>16973700
>See, this is what I'm talking about. I know a fucking cube is a hexagon. WHY is it important?
Isn't it because it's six-sided? Adam was created on the sixth day. 6 is the number for man. It's related to the mystery of 666. Mysteries are Darkness for those that do not conceive of its wisdom. you have to do an in-depth study of gematria and contemplation to understand 666, on top of having the grace of God. Numbers are pretty awesome concerning their spiritual application and understanding that reality has a synchronous nature to it. What are the odds that certain words or phrases equate to certain numbers and that they have some kind of relationship? Yet some that have found these things have later decided that they were being delusional and schizos.

The circle is a symbol for the highest reality. Hexagon is somewhat like a circle but not quite. The triangle is a symbol for the trinity, it is profound in that it is the first shape that has only straight lines that makes a two dimensional shape. A problem with modern humans is that they're very logical but they don't know how to contemplate as much as they used to. That's why religions for the most part is shit nowadays. Atheistic metaphysics are just the stupid logic of humans that mostly know how to concern themselves with brute facts, which is what science is concerned with studying. That's why you have idiots in Christianity that believe in a literal creation of 6 days rather than it being some kind of profound symbol for the image of God that our soul becomes. The Sabbath is the seventh day and to enter into God's rest is to be the spiritual androgen, male and female principles not separated. Otherwise the six become something that is still a duality. 6 itself is a perfect number 1+2+3. Thus showing its profound relation to the Trinity and man being an image of God.

It is the perfect ordered dimensions of the hexagon and the cube that shows its relation to the Perfection of the circle or the sphere. If the lines or sides are uneven in the shapes they make a completely ugly and imperfect one that is less like the Perfection of a circle or a sphere. There is an order to the days of creation as well. Though I do not fully understand the mystery of the creation days.

>>16973572
But why should there be a connection of the different kinds of races? I mean, why is it a loss of cohesion that a central african body gains a northern soul?

>>16972400
So, what are the rules for who is white and gets to be part of the master race? Remember when the Brits who got to American first would shit on immigrants from Europe. It's it just every white now, all the amerimutts, or what? What are the rules. Also, does being "white" give you a sense of accomplishment? Genuinely curious.

>>16971391
Fucking Kek,I do think a jewish cabal is the most influencial and powerfull organization in the world today but thats about it
The people atheists vote for are almost always religious.
>>16973067
Does Evola fit really well with Jung and maybe even Crowley?
Because I've read some quotes and he seems to be all in.
>>16973286
Kabbalah is interesting,as much as I hate le joos
>>16973391
>is saturn satan
Calling anyone a satanist is worthless.
All gods are archetypes,Satan is the archetype of rebellion,againts the light,while Lucifer,literally meaning lightbringer,can not only be associated with Venus,but can also be associated with Christ,Christ calls himself light bringer once too.
Of course,if morning star was reffering to the babylonian king,Lucifer doesn't even exist biblically,but that doesn't matter.
Lucifer is biblically Satan too but it's a double archetype.

Jews worship Yhwh,which has a father god archetype but I would also say represents jewish supremacy,Yhwh is a warrior god at first.

As for the Saturn thing,I take a more moderate aproach,Romans think Yhwh is Saturn,while they come from totally different pantheons,archetypically this is understandable.
Saturn is god of time,alpha and omega,and the closest thing to the demiurge if you want to delve into gnosticism,just like yhwh.
Saturn is also similar to Baal since they both ''eat'' children/related to fertility.

Judaism is most similar to cannanite mithology,Yhwh beeing equated with Baal,Baal fights a sea serpent named Lotan,Baal fights a seven head mighty serpent,Baal has a enmity towards snakes.
Even things like the Mary appear,Baal has a virgin wife bearing his child.
>but bible said baal bad
Yes,it's weird,Yhwh also reffered to himself as elohim.
Once again,take these as archetypes,Baal is archetypically very similar to Yhwh.
>muh hexagons and black cubes
I think the talismant of Saturn or that meme star of david thingie comes from the lesser key of solomon,Solomon uses it to summon demons.
This is meantioned cannonically in Islam
>islam is a meme
Yes but I think it was worth mentioning
The hexagon on Saturn and the star of david are such a huge coincidence that it is real,I don't think god made it that way,rather I would say joos gueesed it.
As for the black cubes,it's something related to the subconcious probably

>>16972438
That actually sounds based. Even thought I'm not white.

>>16972638
This makes Evola sound legit. But then this >>16972754
Should a non-white person even bother? Should I just stick to Nietzsche?

>>16971306
>>16971320
>This
Useless comments. Why bother leaving them? Are you looking for some kind of approximation to upvoting? It means absolutely nothing to the rest of us that some literally, literally who agrees with the content of another post.

>>16974058
You can't even begin to analyze something that you have not seen. your premises are all based on your subjectivity and judgment. you try to protect yourself from chaos by adhering to an objective reality and things that make sense to you. Chaos is information that is simply that which is too hard to understand. to an ant mathematical equations written down on paper are not what they are to a human being. When light is bright enough it becomes Darkness to the eyes that have not the power to fully conceive of it. Logic is nothing more than a capacity to understand. The road to understanding ends when your logic cannot contain any more. We bottleneck ourselves in different ways. Maybe you are not open enough to increase your logic. If you were then evidence would not seem supreme and divine revelation would be more than gobbledygook to you. neither you nor common religious people have had a profound enough religious experience. Each soul is a unique Matrix, it's good that you're different than me. After all we're all in the process of revealing and playing around In the infinite. Some of us just happened to be a little bit more awake than others. Sleep has a charm of its own. Both modes of being can be wonderful.

How do I know my perception is greater than yours or how do you know that yours is greater than mine?

>>16974602
I read The Accursed Share last summer and it was incredible. I really want to make a thread about him but I want it to be a good post so I have to think it through. Made me see consumerism in a new light.

>>16974622
Based anon. Are you the Evola guy? Where did you learn the information you were speaking about in this post? Also where do I begin to understand things like this?

>>16974630
Wouldn't the perfect being be a combination of things? It seems to me like all the races have a certain skill set. However, that is too general. I think there are certain members in each race that are near perfect, in most ways. Sure they might appear more often in some races. But they are present in all. Maybe some races are behind in development, but it doesnt follow that their development would not be worth pursuing.

>>16974630
>But why should there be a connection of the different kinds of races? I mean, why is it a loss of cohesion that a central african body gains a northern soul?
Why do you think? The body is a tool of the soul in the same way that the soul is a tool of the spirit. If a man has a great passion for running, but was born with short legs and small lungs, would that not be troublesome for him? Similar logic applies here - heterogeneous elements disrupt each other rather than work in harmony.
>>16974665
>So, what are the rules for who is white and gets to be part of the master race? Remember when the Brits who got to American first would shit on immigrants from Europe. It's it just every white now, all the amerimutts, or what? What are the rules. Also, does being "white" give you a sense of accomplishment? Genuinely curious.
I can't give you any answer relevant to Evola's views here, because this is a complete nonissue from his perspective. Read his books if you care that much. As for me, it's pretty clear what people are like me and what people are different from me.
>>16974668
>Does Evola fit really well with Jung and maybe even Crowley?
Evola thought Jung was a subversive element, he did not like psychoanalysis. As to Crowley, I am not aware of any direct comments on him. It's been difficult for me to confirm if Crowley was working off of a more Traditionalist base or if he's just another modernist occultist.
>>16974684
What kind of non-white are you? Evola held the spiritual traditions of Arabs, Iranians, Hindus, Native Americans and East Asians in high esteem. If you fall in one of those groups, I struggle to see how reading him would be an issue for you. It also depends why you want to read him. Nietzsche is good, but I think Evola goes a lot further. Ride the Tiger touches on the Nietzschean worldview, if you are interested.

>>16974849
>>16974849
> What kind of non white are you

I have taken a DNA test. I am a Mexican-American. The test points specifically to a people called the Purépecha who had their own empire which was perpetually at war with the Aztecs. The Aztecs were never able to conquer them despite outnumbering them because they had metallurgy techniques which helped them out a lot. They ending up just bending the knee immediately to Spain.The rest of the DNA, was, Basque and Irish.

> As for me, it's pretty clear what people are like me and what people are different from me.

Nice response. I think, I find the body largely irrelevant. I tend to bond strongly with similar minds and spirit. Although I do respect other men who take time to work on their bodies. Its neccessary imo, as a man, even if you are in a completely unhostile and safe place, to be ready to physically fight.

>>16974764
No i am not but Evola himself seems to have a gift for contemplation as well. In the little I read of rene guenon, I saw that he had it too. In part my thinking is pattern recognition. Contemplation is something that is irrational to some materialist logicians. How big of a door would burst open with light if metaphysicians had spiritual experiences? Of course this has happened before. And everyone already has a spirit and they are inspired by whatever they accept as an authority. If there are truly spiritual rules to reality then those that do not know of this reality may be at a disadvantage. Atheism then becomes a kind of spirit.

I didn't even know some of what i said until I said it. Mysticism considers other ways of thinking to be valid, but it requires the purification of ourself and certain spiritual practices to commune with good spirits and God. Reality is synchronous, it speaks of something strange that material reality alone cannot explain. Many folks are capable of explaining it away though. The self is a subjective being and that is largely what spirit is. Spirit is not real in the same sense that objective reality is real. Material reality was created by the spiritual world, it is a branch of it. To try to know reality we should not only study some hairs on the back of a hand of it, but if we studied the hair well enough we can find DNA in it too. eventually I think that scientist will be able to perform test with technology that will be able to interpret strange levels of reality, making contact with intelligent beings attempting to communicate via what occultist call telepathy. Human bodies already do it naturally since they are influenced by Spirits all the time. It is only a matter of figuring out what is going on and how it occurs. for me to be able to be influenced by spirits there has to be some kind of connection to that part of reality. There may be some kind of quantum level influence. This kind of influence might also show how abiogenesis is possible.

>>16974898
If you are Hispanic then it should be fine, Evola had good things to say about both groups that Hispanics descend from. There is a lot that is addressed directly at Europeans, but you can just read those parts for the sake of curiosity or skip over them if you'd like.
The body isn't irrelevant, but it's certainly the least important it has been in a long time. Typically, the connection between body, soul and spirit is very strong, so the body was a very important marker, but with mass culture today ever the soul can be fairly uniform across ethnic groups or at least certain strata within them.

>>16974916
I know what you mean anon. Sometimes when I smoke weed after not having smoked for a long time, I get to this hyper-logical level. Where I can express myself with extreme clarity. I was unsure if it was actually occuring, but I noticed when I spoke to people who did not know I was high. A light would turn on in their heads when I would explain something to them that was confusing to them before. Also, I was asking if you were the Evola advocate. Not Evola himself. Unless I misinterpreted you. I feel like receiving information in that way is dangerous. I don't believe Crowley. He kind of seems like a dissapointment whenever I read about him. If levitation was really a common occurrence at the Order of the Golden Dawn why would he leave it? Obviously there is something there. I feel like he was bullshitting. Not that you asked.

>>16974849
>heterogeneous elements disrupt each other rather than work in harmony.
In biology sometimes hybrids have the advantage. Sometimes an invasive species will totally wreck and invade a foreign environment. Other times they naturalize and can coexist in a more friendly manner. If we look at the world we have expressions about how things might be, it is an overwhelming symbolic wisdom. Certain things are lost but certain things are gained. races intermixing are the other side of races not intermixing. Intermixing too closely itself is a curse. Nobody wants a cleft lip.

>>16974961
So, basically God Emperor of Dune up in this bitch. I feel like all the different types of humans have their thing. A combination, then further tampering, or refining, seems to be the way to create a super human. Or rather specialize humans, for certain tasks.

>>16974961
We are not exactly discussing biology here, but if it's interesting to you, Evola thought that the introduction of small amounts of alien material into the general body of a people could theoretically lead to inner growth by precipitating a crisis that can then be positively resolved. This however is a very different view from that of the materialistic theories - the growth in this case is considered the result not of the combination of traits but rather of original element rising up to the challenge of affirming its identity and strengths in even less favourable conditions.

>>16974938
Alright Evola poster. I'm convinced to at least try one of his books. What would you recommend me?

>>16974956
Have you ever experienced something in your brain where you get a really "high-pitched" thought? A thought that your brain can barely grasp before it fades away and you can't express it? I know when you smoke weed it's easy to forget. What I'm talkin about is not simply forgetting it. It's more like the intelligence is too much for your mind, i guess.

I was trying to say that I'm not the Evola dude but I did want to mention that Evola does seem to have some kind of spiritual wisdom. There is BS in occultism which is why I was referencing my own personal experience in the light of certain things occultism has spoken about. I prefer to stay away from occultism, they seem to always end up talking about eating your own cum.

>>16974998
Honestly, this is a based idea. Although, after using this technique so many times, who would one be? Where does the strength of the individual will play into this? Where am I a separate individual, who can rise above through sheer force of will?

>>16971220
Philosophy is political whether you like it or not
If you're intellectually honest, whether you like it or not, you'll become a progressive

>>16971391
Greentext describes Miguel Serrano more than Evola

>>16974987
There are so many humans in the world that by the time we perfect genetic manipulation we will have a lot to draw from.... Maybe

>>16975048
Lmao Ive never gone that deep where I get advice. I think I may have experienced what youre talking about. Not so often though. What I do experience often is sometimes when I am explaining something to someone, I begin to shake. Or rather my stomach begins to vibrate. It's always when I truly trying to give someone advice that I know they need, or whenever I explaining something to someone about the way I am, that I had never verbalized until that moment, so that we both understood at the same time.

>>16975063
You ever play Bloodborne? Genetic Manipulation is terrifying and incredible. It's like the "Old Blood". We should fear evolution, and what we could deviate into.

Just a reminder, Tantra and Shaktism and Kundalini Yoga are fucking D R A V I D I A N.
Evola was so fucking full of shit and half-assed in his scholarship that he didn't even know what parts of Hinduism were fucking Aryan.

>>16975093
>>16975093
RIP

>>16971300
Very dense and he assumes you're already well read on the subjects that he's interconnecting.
Ignore ant-Evola shills and schizo posters. He wasn't a Nazi, he wasn't even a fascist, although he was certainly on the far right. The fascist Italians under Mussolini imprisoned him for being too critical of their government.

>>16975019
It strongly depends on what you are looking for, anon. Which part of his work interests you most, anon?
>>16975051
I am not sure that's exactly how it works, anon.

>>16971220
This is a good way of putting it. Religion brushes under the rug the metaphysical specifics for the benefit of people who can't or don't want to delve into them, and it has value in that context. But if you want to seriously delve into the specifics of the topics religions address, you're going to run into problems of rigor. Religious texts ultimately deal in simplifications and superficialities and retreat to "trust me bro, this ancient text of apocryphal genesis is 100% factually correct," which isn't enough for some people.