/lit/ - Literature

>>17145010
that's a big if

>>17145010
>be a good boy
this was my philopsphy when I was 5yo. Grow up op.

>>17145021
That was your mother’s advice. There’s nothing wrong with it

>>17145010
If there are Gods and they are perfectly good, they might understand something we don't about morality. Thus, merely being "good," as per our definition of the term, might be being "bad" as per theirs. Thus, it might be entirely rational for them not to allow you into heaven, for you have been bad, after all, even if you thought you were being good.
The rest I agree with, though.

>>17145010
It makes sense but it also renders most religious practices moot so sunk cost bias will get in the way for some people. It means a just God wouldn't care that you go to church once a week, pray, and believe and recite holy text. It means the most important thing is doing good deeds and living a virtuous life, which means time has been wasted.

>>17145021
whats your philosophy now, be an edgy cunt?

>>17145075
i will never be a good boy no matter how hard i try and god's will = the meaning of life and i can only no the right way through his grace. (not really though)

>>17145010
>Just be an emperor bro
It's easy to tell other people to be a good boy when you are the most powerful man of that time and not an average guy who gets cucked twice in his 20's, gets in debt and raises someone else's kid(s). And most people's families are so shit they wont give a shit about you even if you live a virtuous life

>>17145031
>they might understand something we don't about morality
If only there were some set of books written by a creator that lays out what is morally good and bad

>>17145248
too bad there aren't LOL

"Live a good life"
- Oprah Wincus Aurelius

>>17145021
This is my philosophy at 32. I went to war when I was 19. Seen and participated in enough evil for one lifetime. I don't want to wrong anyone ever again

>>17145010
How are there already 12 posts and not a single littard mentioning how Aurelius never said this. Are you all braindead or do you literally know nothing about stoics?

>>17145031
Idiot. If the gods were good they would give their creatures the intuition and reasoning to understand what is good and come to heaven. If they created man with the moral intuition he has and punish him for carrying it out, they are evil and don’t deserve worship.

>>17145010
Maybe that would have been okay before God sent His only begotten Son to dies for us all on the cross. Now you’d just have to be a dope to ignore Him.

>>17145010
Why does this make Christians seethe so much, he is just considering all the possible scenarios, he's not leaning towards any one.
Aurelius was a firm believer in the divine anyway, the point is that Stoic ethics are valid in any scenario and that living according to reason brings man the highest joy - gods or not

>>17145620
This only holds if God's "good" is equal to your "good". And theres no way for us to know if thats true.

>>17145366
Great post, because it highlights the target audience for OPs book: Naive boys gullible enough to go to war

>>17145010
Great. Now tells us what "good" actually means.

>>17145366
You dingus.
Warcraft isn't even that old.

>The fourth way out is that of weakness. It consists in seeing truth of the situation, and yet clinging to life, knowing in advance that nothing can come of it. People of this kind know that death is better than life, but not having the strength to act rationally - to end the deception quickly and kill themselves - they seem to wait for something.
Either believe in god you have it your way; don't be a middling pussy-ass nigger.
Also, the quote isn't from Aurelius, but is often wrongly attributed to him; he'd never said such a retarded thing, it's obvious to anyone who's actually read his works.

>>17145748
Is that really all that's keeping you from suicide? The Judeo-Christian God?

>>17145748
Aurelius did believe in the divine, but did not believe in your Christian notion of life after death from what I am able to remember. Aurelius' concern was for man to fulfil his rational nature, to live virtuously and rationally while he exists for his brief period of time, and to await his ultimate oblivion; to be reduced to dust as all his fellow men before him

>>17145600
>Are you all braindead or do you literally know nothing about stoics?
Both apply to /lit/. Most threads about stoicism discuss strawmen and reddit tier interpretations of it. This instagram fake quote just adds salt to injury.

>>17145020
There are three ifs and they are exhaustive.

>>17145025
Die whore

>>17145913
can you please elaborate on this

>>17145740
That's the point. If god exists and is good, how can he create man without the ability to understand what's truly good and then punish him for not doing the truly good he could not understand?

>>17145740
I only have my good. I can’t be other than what I am. The gods created me this way; they have no right to demand me follow their version of good if they made it rationally and intuitively inaccessible.

>>17145234
Yes I'm sure the turbulent life of a young man in a developed modern nation is in any way comparable with the difficulty of racing from Brittany to the Rhine, from the Rhine to the Danube, from the Danube to the Euphrates in order to defend the Roman world and civilisation against the Germanic or Sarmatian Barbarians, against the Parthians and then the Persians, all the while his life was constantly under threat - be it from disease and plague, barbarians or internal scheming against him, all the while Rome faced unparalleled crises which would see to its decline and eventual collapse after Aurelius' passing

>>17145952
It is implied that he punishes more those who have knowledge of good and still fail to do good.

Respect and worship God without counting on His help.

>>17146105
>Yes being extremely rich and powerful is more difficult than being an entitled modern wagecuck

>>17145010
Wasn't Carcalla that said that?

>>17146147
Yes,lol? Being a leader, especially of an empire like Rome, is way harder than being a commoner. Heavy is the head that wears the crown.

>>17146147
Aurelius' wealth isn't relevant, throughout his life he slept on the floor rather than on a bed, ate a minimal diet and lived a life of restrictive asceticism. I guarantee you that you have more material benefits by living in a cosy modern apartment with the "luxuries" of modern comfort compared to living in a war-tent on the banks of the freezing winter Danube, while you're forced to unwillingly serve the empire as an 'imperial slave to unworthy masters'

>>17146166
How do you live a virtuous life as an subpar looking dude in modern world? You work like a slave so you can afford rent and probably have 0-3 girlfriends throughout your life. This "just be virtuous bro" stops working when you are given no choice. You can't self-improve yourself out of shitty housing markets, mass immigration, inflation etc making wages shit. Is being a cuck virtuous?

>>17146113
That's not the point. Why should you be punished at all for acting in a way that you believed was righteous and just? How can god make you in a way that you believe you acted rightly but then punish you for it and call himself good?

>>17146183
Cucking yourself by sleeping on the floor doesn't make you virtuous. Just be an emperor bro

>>17146188
>shitty housing markets, mass immigration, inflation
At least these things give you those late Roman feels.

>>17146188
Read any work of ancient philosophy discussing virtue ethics - be it Plato, Seneca, Epictetus, the cynics or the Meditations itself. One's capacity for virtue has no relation to external matters, indeed perhaps it's the opposite

>>17145366
based reformed man. dont let anyone divert from from the right path.

>>17146192
Did you forget the part where God gave us free will? You are free to move away from God.

>>17145025
Actually that's child abuse. That's how book reading incels are made.

>>17146188
What do you think a leader does? Sits in his palace among all his slaves doing nothing while someone else runs his responsibilities for him? No, he has to be out there under immense public scrutiny making sure everything is functioning properly. At the battlefields, political institutions, courtrooms. If he fails his name will be disgraced in history, he might be killed or deposed or unelected. Every action he takes affects everything, and he can hardly have a real friendship or relationship because everyone is in awe of his power.
Imagine you were an emperor and, due to one of your military mismanagements, you caused a famine to break out in Rome and thousands were starving to death. How would you live with yourself? It makes being a manager at some firm quite attractive.

I wonder what Marcus would think if he saw a fake quote attributed to him being used to make him out to be some sort of proto-atheist redditor.

He was a very religious man.

>>17145010
This is actually for your safety.

>>17146188
Life is literally not even this bad for most people. If it sucks this bad, just be a fucking criminal or get politically active I guess and do something about it. Maybe some direct action, and get a bunch of people to get to share rent or some shit

>>17145366
>went to war
Any veteran of any war since World War 2 is a pathetic scumbag who has done nothing but perpetuate the culturally-destructive and homogenising Anglo Empire. You did not ‘go to war’, you participated in little more than a paintball match designed to further entrench global capital. You fought for oil futures and Marvel Avengers.

>>17146473
based and anglopilled

>>17146473
based

>>17145010
of course there is no god but if there were and it were an unjust god then you should very much try to get on their good side as you’d be completely helpless against their divine wrath

retard argument

>>17145010
I don’t think he accounted for the Abrahamic god, which is the most terrifying being put to text. It literally doesn’t care about anything other than your worship, and will punish you forever. Actually forever.

>>17146473
Damn, that really cuts to the bone. Or rather, it would, if it had even the barest, tangential connection to the actual reality of why I chose to go to war. Yes, war. You've given me no reason to respect you enough to do so, but I could tell some stories. Ever heard of Kandahar? Helmand? War.

>>17145010
>There are gods and they are just, then they will welcome you based on the virtues you have lived by
Correct

I know he never wrote that, but who did?

Why would you care what type of memory you leave behind after you die? Of what possible consequence could it be if there is no afterlife?

>>17145010
Marcus Aurelius never said that. The end.

>>17145010
Marcus Aurelius was a devout man who actually believed in Roman gods. What he actually said:

Now departure from the world of men is nothing to fear, if gods exist: because they would not involve you in any harm. If they do not exist, or if they have no care for humankind, then what is life to me in a world devoid of gods, or devoid of providence? But they do exist, and they do care for humankind: and they have put it absolutely in man's power to avoid falling into the true kinds of harm. (Book II)

It's a total twist of what he actually said, in fact the opposite meaning. He's literally affirming his own belief.

>>17146623
You're not impressive zogbot, anyone with two braincells to rub together knows the only heckin veterinos of Afghanistan that deserve respect are the Taliban. Now go flex in fatigues for your free milkshake mercenary nigger.

>>17146328
man I was going to tell you not to bother with a brainlet but then I realized I was the brainlet by not trying to explain our brainletbro that he was indeed one.

>>17145010
I have read Meditations not too long ago and I don't recall reading this. In which of the 12 books it's in?

>>17146473
Based

>>17146909
its not in the book, its a fake quote

>>17146884
Nobody wants your respect.

>>17146940
Ok but you don't deserve anyones for fighting for Israel was clearly the point made. Is the IED induced CTE interfering with reading comp,?

>>17146969
Don't give a shit. Get fucked, retard.

>>17146982
אני מודה לך על השירות שלך

>>17146884
Based

>>17145010
First five sentences are ludicrous

>>17146982
Lol, you been owned Call of Duty dude

>>17145010
It's the basic life philosophy, you don't need anything else. Other philosophers are annoying edgelords.

>>17145010
>Inb4 the God of Bible and Qur'an AKA Yahweh or Yaldabaoth is real, albeit not being almighty, still has the power over you to resurrect you and throw you into hell and make you suffer forever, because YOLO, and you have no control over it. Your free will was rigged from the beginning anyway and God will decide it is only Mormons who will be saved and so you are fucked. There may or may not be other beings greater than him, not it will happen that you will suffer forever, because that is no intristic justice in the universe.

Also do not take advice from this guy, he is the father of Cummudus after all.

>>17146884
>anyone with two braincells to rub together knows the only heckin veterinos of Afghanistan that deserve respect are the Taliban
omg omg unfathomably based

>>17146473
>>17146514
>>17146488
>>17146909
pathetic samefag
why are commies so fucking insecure

>>17146623
>tfw have a marine buddy who told me stories about intentionally putting tabasco sauce on his eyes to keep himself awake for days during fallujah
Hilarious how obese keyboard warriors think they have the moral superiority over anyone, let alone those who underwent real pain and difficulty for their comrades.

t. perpetually comfortable manchild

>>17145010
marcus aurelius the psued begs the question, no wonder his book is recommended as babies first philosophy.

>>17147646
>noooooo I can’t be wrong it must be samefagging
Lol, crapitalists BTFO

>>17145925
Be nice.

>>17147665
The hardship the American soldier faces, wilfully pouring Tabasco sauce in his own eyes. LMAO!

>>17146188
>0-3 girlfriends

more like 5+ for the top 20% and 0 for the rest.

>>17146328
Aren't there quite a few Roman emperors who did just that? And they didn't give a fuck when their actions caused the plebs to suffer. They were hedonists.

>>17145010
>live a good life.
which is?

>>17147646
If they could come to terms with reality they wouldn't be communists. It's not that comunists are insecure, it's that the insecure and impressionable are the only ones who 'become' communists, whatever that means. Mostly it appears to mean posturing like a middle schooler about how superior you are to society full of less intelligents, this despite not holding any actual rank, merit, or accomplishment within said society.

>>17147905
>calling American soldiers faggots makes you a communist
stay mad

>>17145010
AS as gamer - a person who faught against several evils and hell itself - I really can't agree with this.

>>17147905
Yeah I'd bet anything that faggot going on about "craptalists" has 100k in debt and a woman's studies degree or the equivalent, 'enlightened' and totally worthless

>>17147825
Go back to reading the wiki page on logical fallacies, child, you don't know what you're talking about.

>>17147954
I’m actually having sex with your girlfriend right now consumerbaby

what an embarrassing thread

>>17145010
I think I can undermine this:

What is just, or noble differs from civilization to civilization, lets say the Gods are those of ancient Greece.

Alright, well then bravery in war would then be seen as just and noble, while wageslaving would be seen as not so.

With this in mind you dont automatically create a better Christian or Humanist world.

>>17145021
Wow thanks, I’m sure you were a Roman emperor at the age of 5.

>>17145010
i fucking hate this faggot so goddamn fucking much

>>17145010
>fathers Commodus

>>17145248
This one is exactly what I'm saying. Following God's law isn't necessarily following our own. There's a difference (often), therefore, Aurelius' original quote is wrong (because if there is no God, then acting as per your belief of God's will can be acting poorly as per your morality).
>>17145620
This one's retarded and circular. It can be entirely moral to desire people to, say, give up their own logic in favor of your own (through a holy book, for instance). Example:
You are a parent. Your children are misbehaving. You tell them not to misbehave. They continue to misbehave. You can punish them even though they don't understand why their misbehavior is wrong because they didn't act as you told them to (and you know better than them).

>>17145010
>Do what you want xddddd
I truly hope that if God exist, he's not as retarded as this.

>>17145010
Justness or unjustness are qualities determined by god. If you are not devout, then you cannot possibly know how to live justly.

>>17145248
>written by a creator
Only the Quran was written by the creator (via his prophet). All other holy books were written by men.

>>17145031
>they might understand something we don't about morality
Suppose this is the case. How, then, are we supposed to know that what these beings say about morality is true? If they are beyond our understanding, they may be malevolent and we can reasonably assume that beings so advanced could hide utterly false things that mislead us about morality inside lessons that seem to our tiny, mortal brains like good moral lessons. If our only choice is to trust those who are more advanced than us, we're forced to just hope that they are benevolent rather than malevolent. If, however, we use our own understanding to judge right and wrong, we are at least working with concepts that are within our own understanding and we will be able to judge the intentions of those who theorize on morality with reasonable accuracy.

>>17145913
for you

>>17149888
Checked and entirely correct, keep dunking on the absolutist midwits

>>17145010
>gods are unjust
>and will torture you for eternity if you don't worship them anyway so get to it

>>17145021
>Grow up

>>17145234
Not everyone has shitty families or lives like you.

>>17145234
the point still stands, just don't be a fucking dick head looking for trouble

>>17145928
>>17150012
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_excluded_middle

If there is and if there isn't, that's exhaustive.

>>17146884
lmao
>posted after solving 10 captchas for goog

>>17146884
>t. incel who has been left behind in life, so he lashes out in anger

>>17152612
>the woman argument
Israeli shill detected

>>17152623
>everyone who disagrees with my high iq hate brain is a shill
>I'm important enough for entire countries to pay people to refute my opinion
>entire countries care about /lit/ section of 4channel
>Trump will win on December 18th... I mean Jan 6th, I mean Jan 20th... I mean it's all part of the extremely convoluted plan that he is leaving the spotlight so he can focus on taking down the swamp over the next 6 months

>>17152809
>Your opinion is not approved by wider society? Discarded.

>>17145234
The person in your example is living the good life by being good to those children and not letting them be abandoned.
>>17146105
Living a good life is not living a perfect life, it is living as best you can under your circumstances. Marcus Aurelius lived the best he could, and maybe the guy raising someone else's kids is doing the same.

>>17145630
he aint so that tho

>>17145010
Well, it's like Justi Martyr said: those who live by the logos are Christians.

>>17150120
That's quite a simplistic way to put it, brainlet.

>>17145010
If all that ever mattered was the outer life, you'd have a point, Marcus.

>>17146623
tell us why you went to war then.

>>17153321
>n-no you have to read 20 volumes of apologetics to REALLY understand what's going on here!
cope

>>17145010
refuted by pascal

>>17145211
That was disgusting to read. But, it's soothing to know you're just a teenager going through a phase

>>17145746
Don't be a sarcastic dick towards your fellow man

>>17145010
Why refute retard that's good advice

>>17153420
Pascal burns in hell for being insincere.

>>17145025

>>17146473
Based

>>17152011
Is the King of France bald?

>>17153277
What does living a 'good life' mean to you?

>>17145010
What is a good life though

Can't live a good life in a bad world.

This is the actual quote:
>You may leave this life at any moment: have this possibility in your mind in all that you do or say or think. Now departure from the world of men is nothing to fear, if gods exist: because they would not involve you in any harm. If they do not exist, or if they have no care for humankind, then what is life to me in a world devoid of gods, or devoid of providence? But they do exist, and they do care for humankind: and they have put it absolutely in man's power to avoid falling into the true kinds of harm. If there were anything harmful in the rest of experience, they would have provided for that too, to make it in everyone's power to avoid falling into it; and if something cannot make a human being worse, how could it make his life a worse life?

It isn't even similar to the one in the op, but i think whoever wrote the quote in the op, made a really good point, i actually agree with him.

>>17146307
>Did you forget the part where God gave us free will? You are free to move away from God.
Specifically what God are you talking about here, I need context

>>17154941
He wrote capital G, it's very clearly referring to monotheist God. There are literally 2 choices, here and at this point they hardly differentiate the matter at hand, how much context do you need?

>>17154948
>the monotheist God
There are many different versions of this God

>>17154966
Not really. There are many different interpretations and narratives of his interventions, but the matter you're discussing is the same for all "version". It's essentialy like to argue that you have no idea what "will" means, because the word can be used psychologically, behaviorally and ontologically. It's all the same in this case.

>>17146314
>noooooo how dare you call him a boy he hasn't even chosen his gender yet!!!11

>>17154978
I'm not arguing the free will point.
I'm saying that you can believe in a good singular God.
Or you can believe in a singular God who has the same faults as man, including the ability to do evil.
Many people believe in one of the above, many people in the other, and a greater amount of people are confused to the point where they believe in both at the same time.