/lit/ - Literature

>>17578445
Emojis

Didn’t read enough Mishima

>>17578445
leftism.

>>17578445
>angloid
there's your answer.

People like you care too much..

>>17578464
>why do u care what other ppl do broooo

>>17578445
Did he also get his dick chopped off or only his dignity?

>>17578457
this

Is this what philosophy does to you?

The very online are socialised into extreme positions due to their lack of exposure to the moderating forces of everyday society.

>>17578445
would dominate him and make that thing my cumdumpster for a few hours, not gay btw

h-how to cure autogynephilia bros?

There are ideological positions which empties you and leaves you nothing but a vacuum, a hole waiting to receive something which affirms being, action and growth. I'll leave it at that

>>17578464
this is such a retarded argument. We live as a society, therefore I need to interact with other people in said society and I don't want my society to be littered with trannies

>>17578581
>there are ideologies that make you want penis in ur ass
wtf are you on about

>>17578591
mental frameworks that empties you will guide you to an existence where you'll only survive by being penetrated, literally and metaphysically

the doctor mistakenly assigned him male

tfw there are more transphobes on /lit/ than on /sp/

>>17578587
never met a single one irl. the problem with people that people that live online is that their perception of the real world is a projection of the websites they visit

>>17578624
good

>>17578464
Laughing at leftist trannies gives me pleasure.

>>17578602
Examples?

>>17578624
Transgenderism is a social construct

>>17578629
the only "real" problem that I see is that vulnerable men will be rendered useless if they buy into these ideas. contrary to popular belief, being a man requires work. it requires you to die trying to conquer something. a man has to fuck the world, he has to impose himself on it

people don't like talking about this, partly because they feel that men who intuitively don't get this are already not worthy of becoming real men. the tranny stuff is just another thing which allows for the creation of more useless men. trannies in themselves are not problematic

>>17578722
Absolute brainlet take.

Lets go over the facts:

>Philosophytube
>tranny
>richer than you
>pays more taxes than you
>creates content that people enjoy

>you
>cis male
>NEET
>posts on a literature board but doesn't read books
>pays little to nothing on taxes
>not even his family can stand him

Who's useless again?

>>17578624
Mentally ill people need to go back to reality instead of chopping their own dick off.

>>17578587
Pretty much this. I've always had a live and let live attitude, but now that people with all types of pathologies want to infiltrate institutions of power and disrupt everything it's difficult not to care.

Philosophytube was and always will be a narcissist. You can tell from even his earliest videos when he would autofellate himself for "giving away his philosophy degree for free" or humble bragging about all the lives that were saved thanks to his video on suicide.
Pic related was tweeted the same week she came out publicly.

>>17578777
The fact this person doesn't even realize he's using the same logic libertarian and capitalists have used for centuries is beyond hilarious. Identity politics really is just the ideological arm of neoliberalism.

>>17578777
>assuming wrongful facts about my person
And just like that, you lost.

>>17578810
Transphobia is much more of a mental illness than being trans is.

>>17578829
It's actually rather more retarded than lolbertarians, who don't really promise that anyone can be a fortune 500 CEO, which is the probabilistic equivalent of being a successful youtuber.

>>17578777
trips of truth

>>17578843
Lmao you got any other hot takes like that?

>>17578777
>he generates more profit therefore he's a better person
wew

>>17578829
Nah, it's communism. And since it might be the strategy that manages to destroy western society we should give them credit, it's quite the historical achievement. The KGB workgroup or whoever came up with it really outdid itself.

>>17578829
>assblasted bigot thinks I have to be a commie to dislike transphobes

>>17578837
I'm sure you're very successful and fulfilled in your parents basement

it's gonna be so comfy when racism and transphobia become official mental illnesses

>>17578881
>destroy western society
Why are you retards always such drama queens? In either way the buzzword is western civilisation you fartbrain. There is no one western society.

>>17578445
Trans women are valid go back to >>>/pol/ fuckboy.

>>17578777
I'm not denying that this guy is "imposing" himself on the world but he's imposing himself on mental children and making his money telling them stuff they like to hear. there's nothing wrong with that but there's a qualitative difference between violently overtaking someone in order to make something better and numbing people with mental sedative. ultimately it's a question of aesthetics and durability. the people who are rallied are effectively useless for any sort of potent political project

>>17578468
This but unironically.

>>17578843
You can't use words like 'transphobia' unironically. Revulsion seems the most natural reaction imaginable and since this horrific disease is transmittable it's also a societal imperative.

>>17578843
this such a cope

>>17578904
Well, all western societies. The drama is valid given the size of the catastrophe.

>>17578881
>Nah, it's communism.
No, that anon measured usefulness strictly in terms of economic output, which is intrinsically capitalist.

>>17578907
'Valid' what does that even mean? I hate ideological language.

>>17578587
No one cares if you don’t want to fuck them but for some reason you have a massive hate boner for them. There is no “””””””””””””””””globo homo”””””””””””””””” turning people trans. 1% of people are acting on an innate desire to not be the sex they were assigned at birth. Get over it.

>>17578445
there never was something in the first place. it could only go wrong. imagine being a queer undergrad dressing up and making vids with 75% bad skits, 10% wikipedia surface level and 15% modern leftist textbook interpretation. You can only be a faggot.
>>17578451
Based.
>>17578457
>>17578453
this
>>17578472
both, but can you lose your dick and dicknity if you were a women all your life but never realised : think :
>>17578581
not a position. if you live by doctrine you're just sheep. being 'not a sheep' but a 'diverse individual person' is the new sheep ideology. I hate the word sheep though, sheep are based animals; humans living like this are just despicable. Not because he's trans.
>>17578624
Yes. This v.
>>17578669
Me too bro.

>>17578965
I was just talking about the prevalent forms of identity politics.

>>17578970
>innate
unclamp

>>17578966
It means there identities are as true and comport to reality as much as cis people’s identities.

>>17578445
Couldn't handle the burden of being a while male. Dunno, anon. Some people are just like that, there is nothing inherently wrong with them.

>>17578876
>OP starts a discussion about how a group of people are useless
>baffled by the mention of profit motive
wew

>>17578914
Transgenderism is just the next boogieman for people that are scared of everything. Nothing will change, society will not collapse (because of it at least) and in 5 years we'll find something else to get angry about.

Also
>imposing himself on mental children and making his money telling them stuff they like to hear
Literally the whole internet

>>17578970
>innate desire
People are not born fags, and even if they were, it doesn't excuse them from their moral actions.

>>17578981
the only transsexual i know irl says being a man is too stressful for him, which seems kinda sexist to me, like woman is easy mode

Who cares? Just let it happen.

>>17578907
Yeah, they're valid for suicide watch.

>>17578777
Based

>>17578998
Transgendersim has no metaphysical or epistemological grounding. Saying "I feel like I am this" is sentimentalism and is not authentic being in the ontological sense.

>>17578992
>Transgenderism is just the next boogieman for people that are scared of everything.
I'm not scared, I'm just saying that the world will keep on being ruled by men. Deluding yourself with tranny stuff is a good way of making yourself a victim of more powerful men. There's no problem if you already understand that this is a kind of intellectual game for a neutered managerial class of people

>>17578980
Identity is negotiated and what is valid is decided by the group. But none of that relates to a metaphysical or even constructive validity. The question society has to ask is whether this is productive or not, both socially and individually. Any set of behaviours has to be evaluated like that and trans people as a group feature of course absolutely disturbing behaviours. It's insane that we're so far down the road that something this bizarre has entered the political discussion.

>>17579050
He's not joking. This is the level of mental gymnastics transphobes have to go through.

>>17579064
>world will keep on being ruled by men
Back to /pol/

>>17578998
KEK it was a joke, anon. Yes, being a man isn't easy, but coming out as trans makes things more difficult, Abigail is definitely aware of this.

>>17579064
>Deluding yourself with tranny stuff is a good way of making yourself a victim of more powerful men. There's no problem if you already understand that this is a kind of intellectual game for a neutered managerial class of people
Every fem pussyboi will be a slave to white muscle chads and BBC's.

>>17579074
I mean that in the sense that society will necessarily be propped up by correctly aligned men. Society crumbles when there's not enough good men to carry it

>>17579092
deciding to identify as female rather than male is going to cause issues for you, that's undeniable, but it's still not comparable with the difficulties of being a woman

>>17578995
>People are not born fags
You are not correct. You in fact are a natural fucking faggot, anon.

>>17579119
This man is a hero. He does not fall to the... one person not identifying with her birth-asigned gender no. He stands like a rock on which the rest of us stand.
For that I say thank you good man.

>>17579138
no u

>>17579092
That's not necessarily true. The left has inverted the hierarchy - victims to the top, and given their control of culture you will get all sorts of opportunities if you embrace one of their vanguard identities. You will certainly get attention which given the state of our culture seems highly valuable to people. +Psychologically a disability is always attractive.

>>17579124
How do you compare being a woman to man in any objective manner? The experiences of the sexes are different in a large variety of ways, many of which can't be measured at all. Of those that can be measured some favor men, some women. Which are more important, who objectively 'has it better'? The entire question seems retarded to me

>>17578624
you will never be a woman

Do you think I could score one of those diversity instructor jobs if I claim to be nonbinary?

>>17579197
This thread really is full of unemployed transphobes, isn't it?

>>17579124
That's ridiculous. At least when born in the west there's no easier life than that of the female. You are born with inherent capital and you are far less likely to land on the catastrophic side of the IQ distribution. If you happen to be born in the say top 15% of attractiveness you are basically a millionaire by birth.

>>17579216
Hate the sinner not the sin. I'm an opportunist not a transphobe.

>>17578881
>The KGB workgroup or whoever came up with it really outdid itself.
you mean the CIA?

>>17579050
Transgenderism = I have gender dysphoria
Transitioning = the medical treatment for gender dysphoria

>>17578624
While /lit/ has consistently had left wing posters, it has also consistently had posters more extreme than /pol/ without being directly fascist

>>17579253
fascism was the only hope left for this planet

>>17579253
I think it's really impressive that a board about reading is less reasonable than a board about muscular man punching each other in the face

>>17579245
Nah, KGB. The non-conspiratorial view is it came out of the new left but any realistic view of the matter has to account for massive Soviet involvement in these subversive movements.

>>17579155
No one can "validate" your existence but yourself. Being even halfway decent requires you to understand this basic idea. You're being a parasite if you think otherwise

>>17579261
so true

>>17579185
women are weaker and smaller, they are preyed upon by men in a hypersexualized society, they have to compete with men in the workplace and adopt behaviors that come naturally to men not women. they are impacted more by aging, losing their value in the eyes of men early in life, they suffering thru menstruation, pregnancy, childbirth and menopause. even when society wholly accepts their identity choices, transgender women will continue to live in easy mode compared to ciswomen because they are exempt from most of these sufferings, due to the fact that even after transition they remain physically and mentally male.

>>17579247
Any data on whether or not it reduces incidence of suicide attempt or depression more than other forms of therapy?

The merger between politics and subculture. The success of the Civil Rights movement calmed people down and allowed corporations to figure out ways to funnel raging teen minds begging for an identity into consumerism, creating a bunch of subcultures around sports, music, fictional literature, games etc.
Slowly, a new set of topical issues such as LGBT rights has emerged, capturing the minds of the youth. Instead of trying to compete, with it, corporations joined politicians and began trying to up each other on who will be the first on the right side of history. All of it eventually led to the slow dismantling of old consumer-based subcultures and emergence of the new ones, based entirely on political stances in regards to LGBT rights.

And, just like the number of vinyl records/MTG cards/sports team paraphernalia used to determine how cool you are within your subculture, now your clout is quantified by how not-cis you are and how far you are willing to go prove that. Transitioning used to be a major life-altering decision that took people years to man up to due to the stigma that came with it. Now everyone can do it regardless of underlying reasons and anyone who is not sure yet can completely mitigate any stigma by joining one of the thousands of pro-LGBT groups that will be willing to coddle and support you (including financially) on every step of your way.

>>17578970
>yet

>>17578970
What percentage of young, high IQ people does it concern? If it touches *them* a lot more, it's very harmful to society overall, even if it's a small percent overall.

>>17579312

>>17579343
He was right about the frogs…

>>17579294
I can rattle off a list of things like that in which men fare worse, eg. suicide, homelessness, value based on ability to earn money etc. That was the point of my post, there is no way to compare because it's apples and oranges

transgenders are much worse off than your average man or woman because they're crazy

>>17578448
how do emojis create trannies?
>>17578587
this. they say they dont care about what other people do but they suport quarantine and get mad if others go out of their house. not to mention other people being rich...

>>17578992
>baffled by the mention of profit motive
Yes. Profit has no bearing on whether or not someone is useful.

>>17578629
and i never met a tranny irl.
rl is also an echo chamber

>>17579358
Massive constant capital accumulation and distribution is necessary to even keep the lights on in our societies. It's pretty useful.

>>17578970
>innate desire
HAHAHHAAH. people couldnt even invent they feel like the pther gender if jews didnt gaslight them to
1% up from 0% is still infinite growth

>>17579348
apple are clearly better than oranges for a myriad of reasons

>>17579253
“Transphobia” is not extreme. It’s healthy.

>>17579138
there is no gay gene anon

>>17578722
>contrary to popular belief, being a man requires work. it requires you to die trying to conquer something. a man has to fuck the world, he has to impose himself on it
This is very true. Every fiber of my being wants to live and die for a purpose.

>>17579358
What are you talking about then, schizo? How is a rich tranny worse than a basement dwelling neet?

>>17579367
>rl is also an echo chamber
how so?

>>17579412
you just dont talk or socialize with people you dont like.

>>17578995
People have yet to produce a convincing argument for homosexual sex being immoral.

>>17578970
>innate desire to use medical achievements that aren't even 100 years old to mutilate yourself

>>17579404
It's at about .3 heritability in twin-studies, so it's a bit inherited.

>>17579417
yes, but you can't ignore their existence. if you have been to school and worked and never met a tranny it's safe to assume they're not a societal problem

>>17579417
You do walk in the streets though. And sadly, most trannies don't pass.

>>17579420
It's not immoral but the type of behaviour homosexuals typically engage in are bad, so we shouldn't just blindly "recognize" homosexuality but address it in a particular way as a society. Same thing with gender disphoria, I'm not sure accepting transitions is the way to go.

>>17579453
>type of behaviour homosexuals typically engage in are bad
>people that i dislike engage in behaviour that i think is bad

Can anyone be less clear about anything? How can one person write this and think it means anything?

>>17579465
I mean STDs, general promiscuity, anal sex, and drugs, Anon.

>>17579299
https://www.suicideinfo.ca/resource/transgender-people-suicide/
>A survey of trans people in the UK found that a completed medical transition was shown to greatly reduce rates of suicidal ideation and attempts, in contrast to those at other stages of transition (imminently transitioning or beginning transition). 67% of transitioning people thought more about suicide before transitioning whereas only 3% thought about suicide more after their transition (Bailey et al., 2014).

>>17579404
Gay gene is a lie but there is a proven correlation between the amount of older brothers and chances of turning out gay that shows up even in males who were separated from their families and doesn't show up in adopted kids.

I'd say that being gay is nature's way of dealing with an overabundance of men by turning some of them into perpetually horny sluts begging to get fucked by the rest of the tribe. It's only natural that some of them want to look like women since we are living in homophobic societies with a stigma against having sex with guys.

>>17578998
>the only transsexual i know irl says being a man is too stressful for him
It seems this is the heart of the matter. It connects with what >>17578722 says too, about how being a man requires effort and courage.
When did boys start getting raised so wrong, bros? You shouldn’t reach adulthood being completely oblivious on how to navigate the world as a man.

>>17579484
All non issues in the developed world.

>>17579247
can you run a medical test to diagnose gender dysphoria? No, its all psychological.

>>17579487
What about this one that followed people for 30 years and shows an increase of 20%?
https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0016885

>>17579505
>it's psychological so it's not real
Are we in the 70s again?

>>17579092
>abandoning masculine responsibilities
>incapable of fulfilling feminine responsibilities
>why does everyone hate me?

>>17579410
the neet isn't a narcissist for one

>>17579502
Not true at all. Since you provide no source or anything I won't bother either.

>>17579465
Homosexual sex is clearly destructive to the human body. Nature itself informs us it is wrong.

>>17579420
Nothing is inherently bad or good. The self-righteousness of lgbt movements and the framing of their position as a fundamental good is materialistic poison, it's also the reason why they're so easily overtaken by corporate interests

>>17579247
Schizophrenia = I hear people in the walls telling me I am Napoléon Bonaparte
Becoming First Consul through a coup d'état = treatement of schizophrenia

>>17579516
No, it's just anal that's a bad idea.

>>17579487
Garbage study intentionally going for the loaded questions that force trannies to try and affirm their choices. Give me a survey that doesn't go out of its way to reveal its purpose to the people it is questioning.

>>17579510
if we're talking about someone "innately being" a woman, it has to go beyond psychology, yes.

>>17578464
Stop taking my tax money and restricting my speech and i would forget about these people, just like everyone else.

>>17578975
calling someone who mentions Mishima "based" makes you look like a giant faggot pewdiepie, time to bust out that shiny blade and stab yourself in the stomach till you die

>>17579512
>imagine caring about a youtuber being a narcisist
>imagine throwing bunk psychology terms around like its an argument for anything

>>17579514
>makes claims about shit with no source
>gets called out
>asks for source

>>17579516
So is eating the shit we eat, living hunched down on computers, not leaving the house for days, breathing shitty polution air everyday. What's the point here?

>>17579521
Yes, because it’s destructive. Even for women it is physically destructive. For men, both physically and psychologically.

>>17579436
yeah maybe casue i dont live in the jew.s.a.
>>17579445
yeah but is that meeting them? i never talked to any, they are just gross and ill

>>17579561
Imagine being a giant faggot. You could stomp out f*male lovers.

>>17579574
The point is homosexuality is wrong.

>>17579524
You mean a study that affirms your thoughts & believes regarding transpeople? Is your brain too smooth to do a google?

>>17579487
You have to be more careful and critical. As far as I know the 'consensus' right now sees no statistical support for or against transition, but we don't even know if people who transition have the same affliction as people who don't. +Even without the politically correct pressure that is constantly producing ideological studies this would be an incredibly difficult issue to comprehend. The last thing you want to do is promote the idea that mutilation is a cure when it isn't.

>>17579574
Just randomly googling it, as I thought it was well-known:
https://www.cdc.gov/msmhealth/STD.htm
"In 2014, gay, bisexual, and other men who have sex with men accounted for 83% of primary and secondary syphilis cases where sex of sex partner was known in the United States. Gay, bisexual, and other men who have sex with men are 17 times more likely to get anal cancer than heterosexual men."

https://relationshipsinamerica.com/relationships-and-sex/how-many-people-have-americans-had-sex-with
"On the opposite end of the spectrum, very few people report high numbers of lifetime sexual partners: just two (2) percent of heterosexual37 women and three (3) percent of heterosexual men report having had more than 50 opposite-sex sexual partners, while two (2) percent of self-identified lesbian women38 have had over 50 female partners. Thus, the experience of large numbers of sexual partners is uncommon for the vast majority of the population. The exception to this is self-identified gay men. Indeed, 30 percent of gay men report over 50 male sexual partners in their lifetime"

https://www.drugabuse.gov/drug-topics/substance-use-suds-in-lgbtq-populations
"Past year opioid use (including misuse of prescription opioids or heroin use) was also higher with 9% of sexual minority adults aged 18 or older reporting use compared to 3.8% among the overall adult population. Additionally, 9% of sexual minority adults aged 26 or older reported past year misuse of prescription opioids—an increase from the 6.4% who reported misuse in 2017. However, there was a significant decline in past year prescription opioid misuse among sexual minority adults aged 18-25 with 8.3% reporting use in 2018."

>>17579506
That study doesn't compare people who haven't transitioned with those who have. The sample is only about people who have transitioned.

>>17579595
No he means a study like this one
https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0016885
That followed people for 30 years and shows an increase of 20% in actual suicides rather than self-reported ideations. Of course trans people are going to *say* they think about suicide less to validate their choice.

>>17578457
Honestly this, there is something seriously wrong with them and Americans.

>>17578445
He always looked a little off, so I can't say I'm all that surprised.

>>17579519
Gender dysphoria is not a belief about having a different body than the one you actually have. It is a feeling of dysphoria regarding the biological sex of the body you actually have.

>>17579630
What? It clearly does. They say they have two cohorts they compare, one control cohort and one that went through the transition.

>>17579628
This is why you people can't get jobs. Correlation does not imply causation. Get an education, schizoid.

>>17579677
I never said there was causation. I myself said homosexuality wasn't immoral. Learn to read, retard.

>>17579640
Did you ever read the conclusion, retard?

>Our findings suggest that sex reassignment, although alleviating gender dysphoria, may not suffice as treatment for transsexualism, and should inspire improved psychiatric and somatic care after sex reassignment for this patient group.

So it helps, ok.

>>17579677
He is the one providing sources -- you are just throwing ad hominems while getting overly emotionally invested in the argument

>>17579623
But there are studies that support the view that transition is effective, and none that support the opposite claim. Also no one claims that transitioning completely cures gender dysphoria, only that it reduces anxiety and suicidality.

>>17579688
They say that to be PC. Pretty clear to me an increase in suicide rate means it's a bad idea.

>>17579663
>Participants
>All 324 sex-reassigned persons (191 male-to-females, 133 female-to-males) in Sweden, 1973–2003.

>>17579656
Which mutates into "I truly was the opposite sex all along and everyone should validate that.", if not treated correctly, which is exactly my point.

>>17579700
In other words, if you disagree with the conclusion of the authors who did the research, you will assume they were forced to do so by PC-culture, because your smooth brain can't understand studies.

Now you can go and attempt to read the interview with the author who conducted the study so you can actually understand it, retard.

>transadvocate.com/fact-check-study-shows-transition-makes-trans-people-suicidal_n_15483.htm

Make sure you read the citations, moron!

>>17579692
cutting your arm may also reduce anxiety on people with Apotemnophilia. Doesn't mean we should support it

>>17579710
The next line says
>Random population controls (10∶1) were matched by birth year and birth sex or reassigned (final) sex, respectively.
What are the control that are compared throughout the study if not non-sex reassigned people?

>>17579595
No. Just a study that asks if a person has transitioned and how it feels about their life AMONG OTHER THINGS.
Not this garbage that is so blatant in what it is doing that it forces a person being questioned to answer based on their ideological stance and a desire to affirm their extreme life choices.

>>17578629
never met a single rapist or murderer irl. the problem with people that people that live online is that their perception of the real world is a projection of the websites they visit

>>17579714
Not even the gender theorists claim that.
You are confusing leftists transgender ideology with the medical condition itself.

>158/2/51/1
this thread is just 2 trannies responding to all the nasty transphobes of 4channel, isn't it?

>>17579722
Would you please calm down, I never insulted you. It just seemed to me a simple explanation, because I'd misread what I quoted here >>17579725
Indeed, if they themselves say
>In other words, the results should not be interpreted such as sex reassignment per se increases morbidity and mortality. Things might have been even worse without sex reassignment.
I misinterpreted it and it doesn't support what I said.

>>17579736
me neither. violent crime is not a problem where I live

inb4 tranny mod nukes the thread like he did with the last few philosophy tube threads

>>17579749
I don't care for morons who critique things they haven't read. Hop on sci-hub and read the entire scientific article, then you can decide if you want to complain about it on a Vietnamese Text Generator website.

>>17579724
Let's hear the case against it then. The case for gender transition is that it can decrease anxiety and suicidality, which means an overall improvement in psychological well being. What is the counter argument?

>>17579692
Didn't the other anon post the long term one with a 20% increase in actual suicides? Look this isn't a political thing anyway. I'm perfectly fine with letting the medical profession and the courts decide but the problem is that they are experiencing a massive ideological push. The studies you see in that field are largely a joke. It's all sel-reporting, no follow up, no accounting for people who dropped out of the study and so on. +Again, we don't even know what this thing is. We might be looking at a thousand different psychological afflictions under the same term. Given our ignorance a benevolent actor should not want to get politcally involved with this.

>>17579690
>links papers that don't support claims
>retards on the internet think that is what 'providing source' means

>>17579684
It's time for you to get back to your containment board, my man.

my issue with trannies is that they will never be the opposite gender. if there was some kind of miracle procedure that could swap a persons gender completely then maybe they would be bearable. but there isn't and they're left a twisted freak mockery of what they want to be

>>17579776
I would say it's self harm to your body. like apotemnophilics

>>17579775
If everyone made the same misreading it was because the way the sentence is worded makes it seem like there are two cohorts studied, one that's sex-reassigned and one that's not. Sure it was a mistake on my part but, like with the many people who apparently misread this study, there was no ill will. Most people don't read through studies linearly before discussing them, even in academia, you and I both know that.
>>17579780
Well it's an increase but not an increase compared with non sex-reassigned people, so it's not a *strong* argument in favour of it being harmful.

>>17579791
But what I linked supports my claim. There are issues with STDs, drug use in homosexual communities, as well as promiscuity (high amount of partners) if you think *that* is bad, which I think it is. Many homosexual themselves will tell you that.

>>17579574
>bunk psychology terms
>says the transsexual

>>17579724
>this medical procedure sounds like gruesome to me and makes me feel icky
>It must be wrong and a product of ideology

Literally the definition of 'feels over reals'

>>17579725
Well I don't know what the population controls are but I assume they have to do with age, gender, race etc. But the study is about post op only.

>>17579834
Yeah I admitted higher in the thread I was in the wrong there.

>>17579677
>Correlation does not imply causation.

1. You're invoking this as just a catch-all argument: it's not.
2. You would readily accept correlation implies causation if the outcome is one you supported. This tends to be the case with people who invoke it as though it just ends arguments; as well as the majority of the aforementioned also worship science, which rests upon the idea of correlation and causation being necessary.

Yikes.

>>17579809
My point was that it's neither 'settled' nor a politcal issue which makes any sort of promotion of this procedure highly suspect and to me incomprehensible.

>>17579860
I totally agree with you there.

>>17579828
OK then. From a purely functional perspective, it fails utterly at what its sets out to do.

>>17579828
actually they think it's a neurological disorder. literally bad wiring. doesn't mean surgeons time should be wasted to appease desire for self harm

>>17579737
It is not a medical condition. It is purely psychological. An error during the process of identity formarion.

>>17579864
*it sets out to do

>>17579873
A minority of a minority of transgender individuals really do have neurological characteristics that are more female than male. For most though, it's an expression of a personality disorder.

>>17579853
>You would readily accept correlation implies causation if the outcome is one you supported
Why am I even responding to this? Baseless claim

>>17579821
And now I will prove to you that blacks are inferior because they are more impacted by STDs then whites.
Just watch me.

>>17579780
>Didn't the other anon post the long term one with a 20% increase in actual suicides?
Yes, but that wasn't comparing people who have transitioned with people who haven't. It was a study about people who have transitioned only.
>Given our ignorance a benevolent actor should not want to get politcally involved with this.
For better or worse the situation is already a hot political issue. I don't see anything wrong with pointing out that the studies so far seem to indicates that transitioning can have positive effects.

>>17579898
You are fucking crazy. I never claimed homosexuals were inferior (unlike blacks, which I do think are inferior). I just think their behaviour is problematic and we should address it rather than hide behind stupid discourses of acceptance. It's not homophobia that's forcing many gay men to engage in anal sex, do more drugs or to have a ton of different partners, it's the particular way homosexuality is practiced in our culture, which is different from what it was in other societies.

I don't really care about this trans gender issue one way or another, i definitely do think it can be an expression of a deeper mental illness but it sure is funny to see you guys seethe about it.

>>17579802
Well some medical treatments may cause harm to the patient, like chemotherapy. I think the important point is whether the treatment is an overall net positive psychologically. It makes sense to put up with a certain amount of harm if that makes you avoid worse harm.

dont like trannies because they look weird. end of

>>17578629
I did, two of them. One worked at the Subway and the other worked with our crew. The manhands and conspicuous adams apples aside, the worst aspects were the smell that followed them, like BO with a subtle hint of shit and dehydration mouth, and their voices.

>>17578970

>>17579928
If you guys think it's so unnatural or whatever you should go to southeast Asia, you'll be very surprised at the number of transgender people there and how it really isn't considered a problem at all. They are usually members of the underclass and considered to have been born that way due to having been sexually too deviant in previous lives, but it's not as though they aren't seen as people with feelings and pain just like anyone else. They just live in society like anyone else and it's fine, nobody makes an issue of it.

>>17578894
This.

>>17579956
Just to add, this type of hermaphrodite /third sex /trans concept is an ancient part of Asian culture that has been around for a long fucking time, so it really isn't surprising to them at all

>>17579956
>>17579978
That's the thing, they have a place in the culture, it follows codes. Most Western transsexuals have an explicitly offensive attitude with regards to the culture as a whole, the idea being they are struggle *against* gender norms, etc. So people react negatively to that. Plus they are more often ugly and don't pass as much.

>>17579931
>chemotherapy
to save a life, not to reduce anxiety. Anyway I don't see a reason to treat them differently, if you tolerate one you should tolerate the other. just like if you tolerate circuncision you shouldn't seethe about female genital mutilation

>>17579918
>It's not homophobia that's forcing many gay men to engage in anal sex, do more drugs or to have a ton of different partners

Source?

That's my point. You just cited a lot of stats that don't support the claim I just quoted 3 studies that do nothing to prove (or disprove actually) the claim I just quoted. So why are you linking it in this discussion?

It's because you're bad faith and a bigot that can't read science and just interprets facts the way you want to.

>>17579253
Prententious /lit/ third positionism is still basically /pol/ when you get down to brass tacks. Fascism is a big tent

>>17579628
These things are the result of gay people being legally and socially persecuted in first world countries up until the last two decades. Stats tell you only that homosexuals are more likely to engage in "bad" behaviour, not that being homosexual is the cause of "bad" behaviours.

>>17579893
>A minority of a minority of transgender individuals really do have neurological characteristics that are more female than male.
The problem with saying this is that it may lead you to believe you are “born” with dysphoria. That it’s something biologically ingrained and there’s nothing you can do about it. This is putting the cart before the horse. Yes, they may show different neurological wiring, but the brain just wires and rewires to adapt to external stimuli.
The root cause of the issue is not some biological/genetic roulette, but an error during the gender-identification process. For some reason some males fail to form a masculine identity —perhaps due to a disconnection with their father figure and an abnormally strong connection with their mothers. In other words, at some point these males came to identify with the feminine identity. This is a psychological error with neurological side effects —not the other way around.

>>17580008
Sorry I rephrased it and fucked up. Correction

That's my point. You just cited 3 studies that do nothing to prove (or disprove actually) the claim I just quoted. So why are you linking it in this discussion?

>>17580008
What are you talking about? These studies support my claim that these things are more frequent among homosexuals than heterosexuals, and they are obviously harmful.
As to whether or not homophobia is what's making gays engage in anal sex, do drugs or have many partners, well talk to any. I've never heard a single gay guy tell me he did anal or took drugs or had a lot of partners because he felt oppressed by society. Yet I think those things are harmful and destructive.

>>17578445
If trans women are women, then why does it seem that all trans women need to publicly and loudly announce that they are *trans* women and not just women?

>>17580019
Uh anon, even after the correction your post is still "appeal to leftist axioms" nonsense and not a real argument. Intended?

>>17579998
>Plus they are more often ugly and don't pass as much.

This. Seems like asians were made to be troon'd considering how easy they make it look.

>>17580014
Even in the case of two year olds? I thought it had something to do with being exposed to too much oestrogen in the womb.

>>17579998
I had no problem with trans people until they made a pact with the great Satan by becoming the new cudgel of the Progs. I still don't have a problem with them per se but if they're going to wield the Proggy Club of Power then I'm going to have to insult them. This same dynamic has made gays at lot gayer than they once were, Prog clout corrupts, and absolute Prog clout corrupts absolutely

I'd never be cruel to people merely for being weird and kind of crazy, I mean where are we right now

>>17580013
I don't see how persecution forces you to have many partner, engage in anal sex, not use protections or do drugs. I don't believe in that discourse with regards to minorities either. Maybe for drugs the case can be made, but I think it's more linked to the culture of hard parties, etc. You should talk to gay guys who are into this more extreme aspect of the culture, I think what I say is pretty obvious.

>>17580013
Homosexuality was associated with social disorder even in ancient societies where it was tolerated though.

>>17580037
I agree. Current gay culture is shit, current political role of trannies is shit. It's not inherent to either but that's how it's turned out in context.

>>17580037

>>17580030
You can really say that to anything you disagree to so maybe fuck off?

>>17580027
>I've never heard a single gay guy tell me
I guess if not a single one told you that, it must be true

>>17580014
>The root cause of the issue is not some biological/genetic roulette, but an error during the gender-identification process. For some reason some males fail to form a masculine identity —perhaps due to a disconnection with their father figure and an abnormally strong connection with their mothers. In other words, at some point these males came to identify with the feminine identity. This is a psychological error with neurological side effects —not the other way around.

From a buddhist perspective they were probably just the opposite sex in their previous life and had a hard time adjusting to their new body and new social role.

(My baseless claim has just as much evidence as yours, so i choose to believe this one.)

>>17580001
>to save a life, not to reduce anxiety.
Not all surgeries are for saving a life, yet they cause bodily harm by opening the body with a razor etc. For me the relevant consideration is whether we have a net positive or negative result overall.

>>17578445
It's the most rational option for a left-wing man.

As Sowell and Friedman would say... It's all about the incentives!

What incentives do you have to remain a white male when you are a left-winger amongst left-wingers? You are basically being asked to shame yourself until you die.
In most cases your nature will prevail, but in some cases the person will just decide to become a "woman".

>>17580070
>I guess if not a single one told you that, it must be true
You rely on your experience when there is no data on it. Do you know any data that could somehow prove it's either societal oppression or gay culture that pushes gays to engage in anal sex, risky sexual behaviour, have a lot of partners, do more drugs than average, etc.?
The truth is that the default assumption should be that it's their culture, since their culture (in its extreme fringes, more-or-less) values these things while both mainstream and homophobic culture devalues them.

>>17578722
Pretty much this. Kevin Solway (talking about his book, POISON FOR THE HEART) has the following to say on the matter:

>It's impossible to isolate what the masculine is without equally clarifying what the feminine is. For this, it very much helps to point at women.

>I didn't want to provide people any scope for thinking that being feminine (unconscious) - or being like, or being with, or being emotionally dependent on such a person - can be noble in any way.

>Without all the carrying-on about the feminine, you can be sure that people will just turn a blind eye to the feminine - in themselves, as well as in women. It's all too easy to do so.

The key sentence, I think, is the second one. There is nothing noble about being feminine. Society may want us to believe the opposite, but society is not the Truth.

>>17580086
>As Sowell and Friedman would say...

>>17580109
That's not how you use the fedora.jpeg, bunkerfriend. You have to wait until religion gets brought up in a sullen manner first.

>>17580105
That's dumb. It's a fundamental trait of feminity to devote oneself to care for others, and to be humble, for example. These are noble traits to me, or I don't know what noble means. Actual misogyny here.

>>17580129
Ah, but fedora anon posted a *white pin striped* fedora, not the black fedora that we reserve for atheism posts.

>>17580105
>>It's impossible to isolate what the masculine is without equally clarifying what the feminine is. For this, it very much helps to point at women.
This is stupid. Saying that you can't define something without defining its opposite or inverse is to essentially say that you cannot define anything at all. What is masculine? It's the opposite of feminine! Very well then, what is feminine? Why it is the opposite of masculine! What poppycock.

>>17580080
I don't favour plastic surgery either, even though you can claim they don't cause permanent damage.
I suspect surgeons only engage because people are corrupt and they get wealthy doing it

>>17580045
You don't see it because you are retarded. For a long time, being outwardly gay meant losing your family and friends, or a large portion of them. That's a hard life and people that live hard lives have more reason to abuse drugs. Furthermore gay men were ostracized outside of their own communities, meaning they formed groups of equally broken people. Its continued existence is because to a lot young gay people, there only exposure to gay culture is that sort of people. This will obviously change and anecdotally a lot of gay zoomers arent going down that path, at least no more than their straight peers.

>>17578445
It likes attention
Next

>>17580096

I feel like people like you get this sort of stuff confused all the time.
I'm not saying that homosexuality is good. I'm saying there's really no reason to think it is bad.
You also have no reason to think is bad, but is trying to find something to justify what you already believe and thus providing bad data.

>>17580105
God damn it this is some dangerous amount of nonsense for not even 3 lines of text.

It never really went right in the first place, that guy was always a colossal faggot.

>>17579430
Sex as a concept differs between societies. For example Caligula cut off a guys dick and married him as a women because since he had a hole in between his legs he was now a woman. Gender essentialism is an indefensible and ahistorical position.

leftists try not to transition challenge (IMPOSSIBLE)

>>17580135
not that guy but I see it as a question of masculinity and everything else. everything must be overtaken by that which is overtaking. every large body must pull smaller bodies into its gravitational field

it's like self-confidence. it's a deep feeling about your own ability to defeat, conquer and replace. it's not "bad" or "good" or toxic, it's just a consequence of overflowing with something, you fill other people up wether they like it or not

>>17580175
I already said drugs were the only aspect of things where it could make sense. But you can't deny the culture of hard partying, etc., also has its impact there.
The communities of "broken people" don't have to engage in promiscuous sex, risky sex, or behaviour that's likely to get them STDs. The truth is that today in the Western world homosexuality is mostly accepted, and still these problems persist. I think putting pressure on gay culture to reform itself would be good. Would you deny it's taboo? Most people would never be caught dead criticizing gay culture, medias have nothing but praise for it, etc. This is obviously furthering the harmful practices by not shedding a light on them imo. Just take the AIDS epidemic, that was sold as a problem for everyone after a few years, eventhough it kept concerning overwhelmingly gay men. Still today straight people are afraid of catching AIDS as if that was a likely event, but statistically, no, this issue mainly concerns the gay community and its practices.
Also, the wider public doesn't have to always be altruistic. If people engage in bad actions, regardless of where they come from, it can be in your interest to repress it. I would have just closed all the disgusting club houses etc., where all the orgies were going on if I was the mayor of a big city in the 80s.

>>17580033
Some trannies are incredibly — and comically!— masculine looking. Hormones have little to do with it.
>>17580072
>so i choose to believe this one
Be my guest. You were never interested in the truth anyways, only in your little delusions that satisfy your queer fantasies.

>>17580185
>You also have no reason to think is bad, but is trying to find something to justify what you already believe and thus providing bad data.
I didn't fucking say homosexuality was bad, what are you guys going on about. You keep harping on this but I never said that.
I think there are problems with gay culture that make it harmful to people who engage in it, and aren't due to broader society's homophobia. This is a totally different point.

>>17580213
>Caligula is an example of how things normally were

>>17580213
Yeah no. There are deep constants that run throughout history. Exceptions don't invalidate this, nobody said it was like a law of nature. It's what it is : a deep constant that is rooted in general distribution of traits.

>>17580226
>Some trannies are incredibly — and comically!— masculine looking
Yes. See my earlier post >>17579893 I am referring to a minority within a minority.

>>17580170
Plastic surgery is different because the purpose is to make yourself look better, not to treat some kind of condition. Although I am in favor of that too.

>>17579253
>implying supporting transgenderism is a leftist position
Any educated leftist would recognize transgenderism as commodity fetishism taken to the extreme. The only reason that supporting trans rights is a "leftist" position nowadays is because the left has become so ideologically compromised that their only belief is "do whatever you want and no one should ever be able to stop you :)"

>>17580213
ah yes and Elagabalus was a tortued trans person too

>>17580086
>It's the most rational option for a left-wing man.
This. My perfectly straight cousin turned gay after traveling abroad to the US for college. People WILL turn gay or tranny if there are enough incentives to do so.

>>17580249
Ok so real leftism barely exist and doesn't matter, can we rename it to something else so we can keep using the word?

>>17580213
>Caligula
yep, that well known, well represented emperor. good ol' caligula

>>17580213
Brother the reason that story was passed down is because of how abominable the action was in history, that he would take a random dude, cut his genitals off and parade him as if a woman.

>>17580249
>I'm not comfortable with it, so it must be fetishism!
I'm pretty sure people said that about faggots a couple decades ago

>>17580109
Yes, I mentioned their names just to annoy you.
I knew that would happen.

(What they say about incentives is mostly true, though, despite, of course, the fact that human beings are also irrational many times - but mostly it's true).

>>17580244
You are speaking hypothetically. Truth be told I have never met an homosexual who did not have some kind of daddy issues or absolutely absent father and a strong identification with mother and/or grandma.
As for trannies, I assume the root cause is the same —feminine identification.

>>17579345
he is right about almost everything he says but he fucked up super hardcore with Sandy Hook. FOr example the Epstein thing was something he openly talked about for decadde before he was suicided.
I only knew him as a meme but i checked a lot of he says and he is definitely not lying(hyperbolic and unhinged he is though)

>>17579264
A board about reading does not a board of readers make. But you already knew that.

>>17578565
Stop watching porn, stop liking women

>>17580244
>>17580291
I’d like to add that perhaps it is true that males who grow up estrogen-dominant will be more likely to develop feminine identification, but the root cause remains a psychological error. If your identity does not fit your nature you will NEVER feel at home in your own body, no matter how much you dress up or cut off your parts. Transgenderism is tragic, really.

>>17580325
it's not from porn
how to stop liking women seems impossible
i could stop watching/seeing women at all which is hard too

>>17580291
Yeah, but that's exactly my point. It's the homosexual transsexuals that tend to have the female neurological characteristics. These men are hyper feminine from the time they can speak; it can't simply be a social phenomenon. There has to be some underlying cause. It's hypothesised, for example, that homosexuality is caused by hormonal imbalances in the mother's endocrine system during pregnancy. I'd be very surprised if something very similar (or indeed the same) wasn't going on in the case of the minority of transsexuals who do present with brain differences.

>>17580356
*imbalances in the mother's endocrine system

the "hormonal" is redundant I should say

>>17580303
>the transphobe itt thinks alex jones 'is right about almost everything'
Amazing

>>17580303
talking about everything is the same as talking about nothing. besides, he is indeed a liar, you shouldn't confuse speaking hindsight with foresight, he did the same with Q, from supporter to critic or with state surveillance and state power (from critic to supporter)

why is there always a thread about this shit? wtf does this have to dowith literature

Guys I recently found out that Caligula had a tranny twink wife... I might be changing sides on this whole conundrum

>>17580385
OP likes to talk about philosophy

>>17578445
Leftism. This is not even up for a debate. Leftism directly correlates with mental illness. They are weak and want to bring everyone down to their level. Their opposition is strong and wants to raise everyone up to their level. This kills them inside, which is a good thing, because they all become trannies and genetic dead ends.

>>17580385
because neutered intellectuals is the reason we're even talking about this to begin with. the best place to find the cure is to produce at least some 120+ IQ guys who can talk about the fact that the world runs on male killer instinct and conquest. the failure of redeeming high IQ individuals will result in a barbarian overtaking which will necessarily doom all trannies

>>17580264
>Ok so real leftism barely exist
I know you're being facetious, but Marx himself wrote how capitalism perverts revolutionary sentiment to support the system. Somehow everyone believes transgenderism is radical despite every company supporting it.

>>17580270
Not fetishism in the sexual sense, fetishism in the psychological sense. You know, one of the core tenets of Marxism: capitalism creates false ideologies that force people to understand themselves only through capitalism. If a man needs to buy dresses and makeup and become a lifelong dependent of the pharmaceutical industry while threatening to kill himself if he's denied these things, that's an abhorrent extreme of commodity fetishism. Stop taking your hormones, tranny scum. They lower your IQ

>>17580443
Whoops, meant for >>17580280. Wouldnt want to insult based Frater

>>17580426
Based and schizopilled