/lit/ - Literature

>>17754877
Maybe decide on a religion first before becoming a priest.

>>17754877
>"I'm gonna become a priest!"
Boring. Become a monk instead, that way you might actually find god. Make sure to achieve Theosis.

>>17754877
You need to be called by God to take holy orders. It isn't something you decide for yourself.

>>17754939
I already decided on catholicism, wasn't that obvious?
>>17754956
Monk life is too restrictive. I still wanna be able to read any book I want, play vidya, play the piano and do my own stuff on my free time.
>>17754986
I feel the calling.

Read secretum by petrarch

>>17755231
>Monk life is too restrictive. I still wanna be able to read any book I want, play vidya, play the piano and do my own stuff on my free time.
>he doesn't realise that the want of those things signifies an attachment to the profane

>>17754877
>obtains epiphany of God's existence
>Yep, time to become a priest

That's a bit of a radical reaction. Acquiring knowledge of God's existence doesn't make a person want to dedicate their lives to the clergy, unless they are ultimately decided that this is what they must be doing with their life through some sort of divine enlightening.

> He is convinced of the existence of God by Dostoevsky
> Chooses to follow Catholicism

>>17755331
Attachment is one thing, enjoyment is another. I would be sad if I stopped doing any of those things, but if I have the option of continuing to do them then I see no problem.
>>17755452
Dostoyevsky's slavophilia blinded him. I really love his works but anyone who can't see how bad this view corrupted some of his works is just as blinded as him. Even Nabokov noticed this mistake in his works.

>>17755506
>I would
I wouldn't**
Sorry for the typo.

>>17754877
>thus have decided to become a priest, but I'm worried of this being a wrong decision
talk to a priest
>Does anyone know or have any experience how a priest's life is like?
talk to a priest

Otherwise good luck anon.

>>17755583
Unfortunately, I don't know any personally.

>>17755506
>Dostoyevsky's slavophilia blinded him.
I mean I guess? The Orthodox belief system is vastly different to Catholicism however. One of the biggest ones I remember being that they reject the Book of Revelations outright.

>>17757076
Neither of them reject the Book of Revelation, and the differences between them are mostly superficial.

>>17757670
inb4 triggered Ortholarpers

>>17757670
>Neither of them reject the Book of Revelations
Catholic headcanon, no Orthodox gives a shit about it.

>>17757076
>>17757670
>>17757724
>>17757940
Russian Orthodoxy is a state religion, it can't be taken seriously since political figures do as they please with it while the clergy bows down to them.

This picture is blasphemy and you should be ashamed of yourself anon.

>>17754877
>Books that made me follow this path:
>>Crime and Punishment
>>The Idiot
>>The Brothers Karamazov
>>War and Peace
>>Les Miserables
>>The City of God
>>In Search of Lost Time
So a bunch of entry level reddit garbage convinced you there's a God?

>>17754877
>War and Peace
>Les Miserables
>In Search of Lost Time
>These somehow helped you find God
Elaborate

>>17755231
If you feel the calling then you need to go to a spiritual father for proper discernment. (If you have ever had any homosexual/pedophilic impulses in your life, please stop now.) Being a priest would be a difficult life since you get paid below minimum wage, live in austere conditions, and have little recreational time. You also need to attend seminary school beforehand. If you're a new convert you also have to be a member and participate in services for years before applying. There's an age limit to joining the priesthood. Maybe consider becoming a deacon.

>>17758554
why do you have to be so harsh anon. Also, what theological books would you recommend instead?

>>17759396
Are you literally asking recommendations from someone that says In Search of Lost Time is reddit entry material?

>>17754877
Why haven't they made a bible manga where every character is a cute girl?

>>17754877
>>17755231
>catholicism
Yikes, you will regret it. Read some actual philosophy and theology and get married then maybe think about becoming an Orthodox priest

>>17759555
Who will do it and risk getting their souls doomed to hell forever?

>>17754877
Disgusting images like this is why Muslims will kill you for depicting their false prophet

>>17759627
What's wrong with cute vtubers? Only God is more perfect than them.

>fiction convinced me that god is real

How?

>>17759555
i suppose there isn't a market of pedos large enough to warrant the effort.

>>17759627
Any real Catholic would tell you pic related is blasphemy and a mockery of Christ's sacrifice.

>>17759602
Orthodoxy is intellectually bankrupt. It is a nice LARP, but Catholicism is the only respectable thinking man church. I say this as atheist.

OP here, I'm sorry for the image. Don't know why I thought it wasn't blasphemy, but after futher consideration it indeed is. I would delete the image if I could, but it's too late now unfortunately.

>>17759674
>thinking anyone cares what a rejector of Christ thinks

>>17755231
>I feel the calling.
Says the man on 4chan

OP here I'm also trans btw, not sure if that matters

>>17754877
god i fucking hate vtubers so god damned much

>>17759715
Why? Did you at least give them a try?

>>17754877
Don't become a priest on a whim. Pray and talk with a local priest about if it's the right path for you. It's honestly better to just be a lay theologian.

>>17759697
We're on 4channel actually and I don't really see the problem? I'm here for literature and scientific discussion, not to do anything sinful.

>>17754877
I'd definitely check out Georgos Bernanos, specifically his books; diary of a countryside priest and under the sun of satan (which has a good film adaptation). I can't think of any books written from an Orthodox priest's perspective, but there are lots of asetical homilies by St. Isaac the Syrian worth checking out. There's also a book called raising them right by Theophan the recluse, which deals with childrearing that I'm sure would be very applicable to priests who have families. Finally, although protestant, a river runs through it by norman maclean is written by the son of a minister. The book talks a lot about his spiritual education, and his father's approach to childrearing and the Christian worldview. Those are all I can think of off the top of my head, and they're all worth checking out.

>>17759730
i like anime girls because you can at least pretend they are idyllic representations of ideal women who aren't disgusting filthy people i wouldn't even want to lay eyes on. now, after women have inserted themselves into every single other space, even the second dimension has now been appropriated by them, bringing their filthiness, uncleanliness, and impurity with them. you can't imagine that a drawing is a representation of a pure and ideal thing when you know that the thing behind it is a real, breathing, actual woman, with all of her (vast) imperfections, but the whole point of 2d is to leave those imperfections behind, making vtubers an apparent contradiction that can only be bridged by being a disgusting coombrained woman-worshipping simp
i want to return to a time when men were men, women were women, and 2d drawings were 2d drawings

>>17759797
wow looks like pic related was true

>>17759842
i didn't read any of that but i just want you to know that i remain firm in my convictions that vtubers and their apologists deserve death

>>17759797
There's also a person doing the voice for anime girls, you know?

>>17759858
sure, but in anime, the character exists apart from their voice actress. the story being told, the character's role in it, the lines they have to speak, all of these are decided by other people, and most often exist before their anime adaptation is even considered at all. the voice actress's role only exists within the confines of the rest of the production, their role is limited to interpretation of existing material, and it's that material which is the object of desire in the 2d realm
in vtubers, there is no story being told, their role is all-encompassing, they make up their own lines and they basically are the production. outside of maybe some coaching and ideas for characterization, the whole show is basically some random whore playing video games in front of a facerig, it's nothing without the woman herself (or, occasionally, man, which is actually pretty hilarious and somehow less offensive to me honestly)

>>17759962
Then the 2D girl is still a creation by a 3D person. You're just dugging yourself with this argument. No 2D girl exists apart from a 3D origin.

>>17760034
created by is different from is identical to. i don't hate characters created by real-life women (although i tend to be somewhat suspicious of them), i hate characters which are inseparable from, and thus identical to, real-life women. a real-life woman, although rather gross to me, is perfectly capable of creating a character which is free from her imperfections. but the woman herself is not, and when she plays her own character, in a show that consists entirely of her, i can't see that character as being distinct from her herself at all
but, on a more intuitive level, i just cannot suspend my disbelief and enjoy it knowing what lurks behind the facerig, and i don't want to have to either

>>17760094
I see, you are indeed right when it comes to the differences between the vtuber girls and the 2D drawings now that I think about it. With that said, it's not healthy to seek perfection in drawings, perhaps it's the imperfection of vtubers that makes them feel closer to us human beings. You say that's gross, but when I think about it, I realize it's better than a 2D idealization devoid of any mistakes. Why is that? Maybe the faint hope that since there's a human being behind the avatar then the chances of dating that girl that seems to appealing to you from the videos are not zero...

>>17759691
Gotta think about that stuff beforehand if you want to be a Christian especially a priest. A woman standing "in persona Christi" is blasphemous and the reason why Catholics don't ordain female priests.

>>17759776
He's criticizing you for dining with sinners and tax collectors. You're in good company.

>>17760193
>don't ordain female priests.
They will in the future. Pressure from the great western governments is too big for them to keep being so conservative.

>>17760152
i guess my relationship with 2d is a bit different - i have never actually thought about what it would be like to meet them, or for them to meet me. i have always been content to enjoy their presence from afar, content at least knowing that there is at least the representation of something perfectly sweet and beautiful in the world. when i think about interacting with them, immediately i'm struck by worry, both that they will fall short of my imagination, or that even without that they would be exposed to my own imperfections and be tainted by them
is this healthy? who knows, maybe not. but it's an unhealthy world out there to begin with. maybe that's why the idea of perfection, of what something is supposed to be like or maybe even could actually be like in a better world, is so appealing to me

>>17759453
no more exposing the fact he doesn't know what he's talking about, as evidenced by the fact that I SCARED AND BULLIED HIS BETA ASS OUT OF THE THREAD

>>17756554
Go to a church and talk to the priest

>>17759674
>Orthodoxy is intellectually bankrupt. It is a nice LARP, but Catholicism is the only respectable thinking man church. I say this as atheist.
>midwit religion likes midwit religion
Orthodoxy has a much richer and deeper theology, Catholicism was created in the late middle ages and never advanced past that, they all still larp as Thomists

>>17755506
I don't disagree on his slavophilia blinding him (even though it was a peculiar one, excluding the Poles), yet I still find his critique of the Catholic Church valid.

>>17754877
Talk to a real priest, not to the retards from this board.
If you want to become a catholic priest they're going to make you live at the seminary for about a year before deciding if you have a calling for it.
Also stop posting these blasphemous depictions of Christ.

>>17761494
Lol

>>17761914
Oh yeah, his "great critique" that catholicism is the devil incarnate.

>>17754877
Two things: the anime image and references too russian lit, means you are a pseud and most likely both autistic and sexually degenerate. Therefor this claim of wanting to become a priestcis just a fun fantasy you are having right now.

>>17754877
>read fiction
>come to believe in a fiction
pottery

>>17754877
How about you try reading the Bible before you decide?

>>17754877
Just study theology brother.

>>17762523
>He wasn't read the Bible to by his parents when he was a kid
Not gonna make it

a more foolish decision than going on HRT

>>17762602
Youre the only fool here

>>17759674
Orthodoxy is hard at work grappling with the modern world, Catholicism is half-full of apathetic clergy who do the bare Novus Ordo minimum and the rest are Jesuits and liberation theologists with no ideology much developed beyond the generic liberal Christian perspective. And then you have a small community of trads and a small community of outright subversives.
But to put it simply, the fact that Orthodox bishops are monastics while that is not at all usual of Catholics makes all the difference. These days, the Orthodox monastic culture is much more conducive to contemplation than even the Orders are.

>>17762602
deranged and megalomaniapilled

omg, you're a priest? i'm like so happy for you!!!

>>17762687
>orthodox good because conservative and right-wing
Can't you people go back to /pol/ and leave your stupidness out of /lit/? You clearly know shit all about theology or even english to be debating here.

>>17760245
it's already been infallibly forbidden by pope john paul II in 1994

>>17762755
Work on your reading comprehension. There is meaning beyond value judgements in the first sentence, namely
> Orthodox good because intellectual effort and not stagnation

>>17762850
>not stagnation
>when the majority of orthodox churches are state religions
Again, just shut up, you know shit all about this theme.

>>17762873
Only in Greece, and there is a lot of diversity in the situations of the others, compare Constantinople vs. Jerusalem vs. Moscow.
Furthermore, everyone except the Greeks proper were, or still are, under intense persecution due to Communism and Islam.
Meanwhile the Catholics keep buddying up more and more to the new world order after declaring modernism a heresy, lmao
What the hell are you talking about, you tantruming retard? Get a functional argument please

>>17755506
>Dostoyevsky's slavophilia blinded him
No it did not. Slavs are the most spiritual ethnic group on Earth. Even 100 years of communism couldn't cut our bond to the Divine. You can criticize Dostoevsky's anti-Polonism but Slavophilia is not something to be ashamed of.

>>17762932
>Even 100 years of communism couldn't cut our bond to the Divine.
Lmao, Russia is one of the most atheist countries in the world.

>>17762687
>Orthodoxy is hard at work grappling with the modern world

>>17762932
>even our hundred years of outright atheism couldn't cut our bond to the divine
If it were that strong to begin with, the spectre of Communism would never have been able to rise.

>>17763057
>NOO a corrupt person it has never happend before

>>17763063
Yet you hate the entirety of the Catholic Church on the basis of a corrupt few.

>>17763062
Yup, Dosto would be so disappointed at xxth and xxith century Russia and russian if he saw what became of the 'russian spirit' that he loved so much.

>>17763084
No, the theology is wrong.

>>17763084
I hate to tell you this, but Francis is the new norm if anything. Or a sign of things to come.
https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/german-bishop-church-disrespects-same-sex-attracted-catholics-by-asking-them-to-live-chastely
https://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/german-catholic-bishops-call-for-change-to-catechism-on-homosexuality-84953

>>17763130
Francis is way less revolutionary than tradcaths give him credit for. It's not like he's changing Church's basic tenets or anything. Those bishops are in a minority and were probably exposed too much to the influence of the German Evangelische Kirche

>>17763147
>pacha mama
>amazon synod
less revolutionary
he is more revolutionary than anyone give him credit for.

>>17763147

>>17763120
The keys to the kingdom were given by Christ to Peter specifically such that whatever Peter bound on earth would also be bound in heaven; Peter's name means "the rock" i.e. the foundation of the whole Church. These are explicit confirmations of his supremacy. To be "given the keys" at the time was also synonymous with the office of the Prime Minister; the early Church councils deferred constantly to the Bishop of Rome for his advice and the final word on matters; the Church itself was reunified at the Council of Florence; the only reason the Orthodox remain a separate entity today is because the Ottoman Empire forced them into not ratifying the agreement. There were a number of Orthodox congregants that refused to accept the agreement at the time, but this could have been worked out by the priests themselves. Having to bow to the whims of your Islamic oppressors is what scuppered the agreement ultimately. That's not exactly praise worthy or something to boast about.

>>17763130
As that other poster said, Francis is far less radical than certain people like to make out. The headlines are particularly sensationalist in relation to him for whatever reason. He still disavows abortion and gay marriage; he hasn't altered any of the fundamental tenants of Catholic dogma by speaking ex cathedra. To compare the peace loving tendencies of Francis to the flagrant corrupt of Krill and his state Church is silly.

>>17763197
>the only reason the Orthodox remain a separate entity today is because the Ottoman Empire forced them into not ratifying the agreement.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St._Mark_of_Ephesus

>>17763212
To compare flaunted wealth to pagan syncretist heresy, especially when the former problem has moreso been a Catholic issue to a much greater extent, is silly.

>>17763215
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St._Mark_of_Ephesus
Yes. See:
>There were a number of Orthodox congregants that refused to accept the agreement at the time, but this could have been worked out by the priests themselves.
There were a few priests who also refused the agreement, but they tended to be of the esoteric kind and were in the minority. St Mark of Ephesus did not speak for the bulk of the Church at the time. The Ottomans did in fact take advantage of this minority by purposefully supporting it over the majority. Thanks for reminding me.

>>17763239
>pagan syncretist heresy,
You are blowing this out of all proportion because its all you have to say. It is in no way unusual for priests to begin the process of conversion by speaking to potential converts through those ethics and laws of the Church they already possess.

>>17763120
Yeah Abbé Guettée whoever that is sure refuted 2000 years of history and studies with a single book. Genius! Let's burn Augustine, Aquinas, Scotus, Ockham, Ansem etc, Abbé Guettée destroyed them singlehandedly kek

>>17763251
There is precisely zero reason to assume that the ultimate decision would have gone your way, if there was already enough doubt over the Council that an existential threat to Constantinople didn't force the issue. The whole thing was literally seen as a necessary evil by the clergy and the populace anyhow.

>>17763396
>1(one) Bishop refused to sign it
>his position was actively supported and upheld by the Muslim conquerors
wew

>>17763410
> 10+ year gap since signing in which the policy was not even implemented
wew

>>17763431
Yeah, I imagine they were a bit busy what with the encroaching destruction of their entire way of life.

>>17763438
You'd think they'd hurry to bootlick the Westerners as much as possible, which is exactly why it is telling they didn't implement it

>>17763453
>You'd think they'd hurry to bootlick the Westerners as much as possible
I don't know about bootlick, but there were a series of pleas made.

>>17763269
https://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/analysis-why-pachamama-took-a-dip-23186
>"It is definitely the case that there is a noticeable sentiment against the synod on the part of certain media here....Someone wrote that it was a pagan rite,” Fr. Suess responded.
>“So what?” the priest asked.
>“Even if that had been a pagan rite, what took place was still a worship service. A rite always has something to do with worship. Paganism cannot be dismissed as nothing. What is pagan? In our big cities we are no less pagan than in the jungle. That's something to think about," he said
absolute fucking cope and seethe

>>17763197
>Peter's name means "the rock" i.e. the foundation of the whole Church. These are explicit confirmations of his supremacy.
So you mean to say that Antioch is equally superior to Rome?

>>17763528
The "idol" was an ambiguous image of a pregnant mother that was replaced by an explicit image of the virgin Mary in the closing ceremony. Conversion is a process, anon. You making so much of this because it is all you have.
>>17763537
>"Although all the Catholic Churches spread abroad throughout the world comprise but one bridal chamber of Christ, nevertheless, the Holy Roman Church has been placed at the forefront not by the conciliar decisions of the churches, but has received the primacy by the evangelic voice of our Lord and Savior, Who says: "You are Peter ...(Matt 16:18-19)." In addition to this, there is also the companionship of the vessel of election, the most blessed Apostle Paul who, along with Peter in the city of Rome in the time of Caesar Nero, equally consecrated the above-mentioned holy Roman Church to Christ the Lord; and by their own presence and by their venerable triumph, they set it at the forefront over the others of all the cities of the world. The first see, therefore, is that of Peter the Apostle, that of the Roman church, which has neither stain nor blemish, nor anything like that. The second see is that of Alexandria, consecrated on behalf of the blessed Peter by Mark, his disciple and an Evangelist, who was sent to Egypt by the Apostle Peter, where he preached the word of truth and finished his glorious martyrdom. The third see is that of Antioch, which belonged to the most blessed Peter, where first he dwelled before he came to Rome, and where the name "Christians" was first applied, as to a new people."
Peter dwelt in Antioch but the triumph of his martyrdom occurred within Rome, as did Paul's.

>>17763537
The office of the Pope is the office of Peter. Peter transferred his office to Rome prior to his death. Had Peter transferred it to London or to Thebes, you would find the Pope there.

>>17763629
There's no proof that Peter founded the Catholic Church specifically.

>>17763649
"Catholic" simply means universal, so, yes, there is. The Church was universal from the start.

>>17763680
If the Church is universal then you must accept protestant and orthodox churches.

>>17763701
Indeed the Catholic Church is working on it even as we speak.

>>17763629
Apostolic succession does not work like that, and any other precedent for the "office of Peter" is pushing the primacy narrative even further beyond its tenuous breaking point. Yes, this is even the case for martyrdom. If you can find me any evidence of such an office existing and being transferred, then I would be happy to see it.

same applies to >>17763599, but what is the source of that excerpt?

>>17763763
>Apostolic succession does not work like that
See:
>20 In that day I will call my servant Eliakim the son of Hilkiah, 21 and I will clothe him with your robe, and will bind your sash on him, and will commit your authority to his hand. And he shall be a father to the inhabitants of Jerusalem and to the house of Judah. 22 And I will place on his shoulder the key of the house of David. He shall open, and none shall shut; and he shall shut, and none shall open. 23 And I will fasten him like a peg in a secure place, and he will become a throne of honor to his father's house. – Isaiah 22:15–23
>In the Bible, the term keys has been used as a symbol of teaching authority (Lk 11:52). >According to Roman Catholics, Jesus, the son of David and hence the King of the new Davidic kingdom, the Church, appoints St. Peter as the Church's primary teacher, an office that will continue to have successors much like Eliakim's position in the Old Testament Davidic kingdom. >With these keys, like Eliakim, St. Peter the first Bishop of Rome and his successors are entrusted with Christ's own teaching authority over the new House of David, the Church here on earth (Rev. 1:18, 3:7). Through this office of the Papacy and the Magisterium, Roman Catholics believe that the Kingdom of Heaven governs the Church on earth to lead it to all truth in matters of faith and morals (1 Tim 3:15, Mt 28:20, Jn 16:13)

>>17763599
>Priest literally saying "so what" on accusations of it being a pagan rite
>The "idol" was an ambiguous image of a pregnant mother that was replaced by an explicit image of the virgin Mary in the closing ceremony. Conversion is a process, anon. You making so much of this because it is all you have.
>"so what"
sneed

Hey people, just stop this, you've destroyed my thread. If you wanna debate about that stuff make a thread for that. If you continue this here I'll report all of you.

>>17763808
>someone wrote that
Please work to better your reading comprehension, anon. The priest is saying "so what" to the fact that some secular so and so claimed something. He then hyperbolically refers to the fact that we are all "pagan" in our habits, and would do well to examine those before we cast the stone at a bunch of tribesman who have only just been introduced to the religion.

>>17763851
*tribesmen

>>17763804
Right, the keys. But that still does not address the issue of Antioch. Is the succession somehow different? what office was in question in the passage?
Well, Eliakim is being made minister of finance, not any lofty or hereditary position, in which case your supposed office founded on that precedent is not necessarily indelible or inherited at all, is it?
>>17763851
Do you know how pagan idols work? The saints used to destroy them, not praise them, not in any context. No, Catholics are not as pagan as a jungle tribesman by a long shot, though I suppose the average German might be...
Fucking romans, your false unity will splinter within your lifetime, or you will continue this humiliation and willingly consort with demons. smdh
>>17763838
Apologies OP, I will leave now

>>17763900
>Is the succession somehow different?
See >>17763599
>Peter dwelt in Antioch but the triumph of his martyrdom occurred within Rome, as did Paul's.
You're choosing to not see something as central as martyrdom in the proverbial Christian's life as central because it undermines your argument. To add to this: Rome was Christianity's most effective persecutor. By rendering the capital of Rome the capital of Christianity, Christianity miraculously demonstrates its ultimate triumph. In terms of Antioch, it is a beautiful city. But it is also a city that is very much located within the confines of the Middle East. Christ makes a point of saying in Luke 4 that a prophet is not well liked in their own country but their words always find fruition in another. You might say that Antioch is far enough, but the universality of the Church itself undermines this argument.

>>17763900
>Do you know how pagan idols work?
Do you? Christ repurposed the image of the crucifix from an image of torture to an image of salvation and sanctuary. Do you truly think the image of a pregnant woman kneeling in prayer cannot be said to represent Mary?