/lit/ - Literature

God, I hope this is real

For the first time ever the French have come up with a good idea

why do the french give a shit about latin? wouldnt it be in their interest to make it french?

https://www.trtworld.com/magazine/french-call-to-replace-english-with-latin-as-europe-s-official-language-44961

https://www.lefigaro.fr/vox/culture/et-si-la-langue-officielle-de-l-union-europeenne-devenait-le-latin-20210208

>>17788015
No one speaks Latin though. They would need to rename the language because it wouldn't really be Latin as spoken. Might as well call it English.

this is part of china's strategy to marginalize english speaking countries and build alliances with "ancient nations" or whatever they call them. it's chinese propaganda.

o tempora o mores!

>>17788015
retarded

>>17788015
Useful only for symbolic value. Most do not have the will or the ability to learn Latin to any level of proficiency

Redditors are unironically seething at this proposal, so it's probably a good idea.

>>17788090
Yes the only people who oppose this are seething midwit plebs who don't know Latin

>>17788097
so most people?
An official language is supposed to unite people and make everything easier, not harder.

>>17788112
>An official language is supposed to unite people
Read this
https://www.lefigaro.fr/vox/culture/et-si-la-langue-officielle-de-l-union-europeenne-devenait-le-latin-20210208

The author makes the argument that it can unite people. Throw the article into deepl or google translate if u cant read french.

>>17788015
Latin is raycis yo. Ayo waht you mean cases n shiet? i'ma case yo mommas ass son. ayo conjugate this verb? how bout i conjogate my dick in yo ass muhfugga

>>17788112
>An official language is supposed to unite people and make everything easier
No it's meant to filter out the plebs who have nothing of value to add to the conversation. If you're bright enough to come up with worthwhile ideas to be discussed internationally, learning Latins should be no issue.

Latin should have never ceased to be a literary language. If it wasn't replaced we would have been able to read the entire western canon in the original language by knowing only Greek and Latin.

>>17788112
>so most people?
Yes.

Would be great if everyone started learning Latin again.

>>17788015
None of our "elites" know Latin or read a book in the past 10 years

>>17788015
based french for once

>>17788202
That's why it's such a good idea

>>17788015
lmao absolutely retarded anyone here thinks this is a good idea, English is the lingua franca because of its clout, nobody's going to learn Latin when it's not the working language at any Fortune 500 company or the language of the internet.
>B-but it keeps out the plebs
If you wanted to speak a prestige language only among elites then you'd be better off learning Hebrew.

>>17788049
Umm. Romance language speakers, like half the EU, can learn classical latin relatively quickly, and even without learning, can mostly understand (similar to how a Spanish speaker can understand Italian)

>>17788215
Hebrew is ugly as sin, literally. Latin is a language of majesty, beauty, culture and learning, and has always been seen as such.

>>17788015
the original article, published in the newspaper Le Figaro, was written in the "Humor" section. So no need to take it to seriously

>>17788140
backwards thinking
Stop trying to feel special

>>17788015
>Spends decades trying to make their le romantic language the lingua franca
>Everyone says no to frogs and uses English
>Well if we can't have it then none can, especially not the anglos
>Let's all just use a dead language

>>17788215
t. pleb who doesn't know Latin
>>17788228
Correct

>>17788015
Edepol! fundatissimum est, siquid quod legitur verum est -- immo vero hoc iam prius fieri oportuit.

>>17788235
No, it's normal non-populist thinking.

>>17788015
Europe's official language is Yiddish, bigot

Do people honestly think that knowing Latin is some ultra-patrician thing? That shit gets taught to high-schoolers in my country.

>>17788244
it's just narcissistic and a massive cope

>>17788140
There's already a way to filter out plebs. Do you know how rich you have to be to win an election? If you're bright enough to come up with worthwhile ideas to be discussed internationally, making a few million quid should be no issue.

>>17788261
Can they write out a short essay or speech in good Latin after their high schooling though? That's what you essentially had to be able to do to get into university back in the day.

>>17788263
Populist cringe

>>17788224
Hahahahahah

>>17788288
Yeah.

>>17788015
basée et pilulement rouge

>>17788311
Alright, write this sentence in fluent Latin >>17788288

>>17788288
yeah, they are able to write like Cicero and use paragraph long sentences while sprinkling in rhetorical embellishments after 2 years of Latin study. Not hard.

>>17788261
Do people honestly go on anonymous imageboards to brag about inconsequential things to compensate for their poor self-image and lack of any actual achievements? Yes.

>>17788261
It's always been associated with scholarly subjects, so that's why it's viewed as patrician. Even guys like Ranieri, who try to make Latin more appealing to normies, often talks about high-brow poetry and phonology on his channel.

>>17788330
Can you seethe more pleb lmao

>>17788324
Proof?

>>17788324
Can you rewrite your post in Latin then?

>>17788354
it's a joke. even in the old days 6 years were dedicated to mastering the language and even then only a few were awarded with the title of Ciceronians

>>17788015
Seems like the French are bitter that it isn't the 19th century anymore and French isn't the de facto language of international communication. Rather than concede that English has filled the void without ever announcing itself, they would rather revert to Latin. Latin itself is a fine language, but I will not take recommendations from the French on this one.

>>17788346
please be larp

>>17788376
Cicero's difficulty is overrated. His sentences are long but a lot of them time it's just puffed up rhetoric (naturally) and everything is logically connected so not that hard to understand. Tacitus is who you want if you want to measure your Latin cock.

>>17788387
Most non-anglos are bitter at Anglos. It's called resentment. This thread is full of it too: everyone coping with their inability to read Latin is trying to drag down everyone else. Slaves and their slave morality always show up when they experience their inferiority.

>>17788235
Everyone on this board is a posturing faggot. People here don't love Latin so much as the idea of normalfags being impressed they can speak it fluently.

>>17788288
Not the anon you asked, but here: Possuntne scholasticis rebus perfectis brevem quidem tractatum aut orationem Latine bene (con)scribere? Illis temporibus hoc posse oportuit, ut ad universitatem magistrorum et scholarium procedere posserent.

>>17788449
Based anon

>>17788293
Yes, that's you.

Latin should be a globally used language

>>17788429
Exactly the opposite is the case. The bizarre claim from a massive number of /lit/ posters that they are fluent in Latin is the justified target of derision from the part of any even remotely honest anon. The threads where the same people who are supposedly fluent actually attempt to post something in the language are a brutal reality check, just like the occasional, ridiculously trivial grammatical questions that require more than 3 posts to reach an actual answer.

>>17788015
Imagine wanting to learn the language of the patriarchy. English, although it may be argued that it is one as well, gets a pass because it is now inconclusive of linguistical evolution and of PoC vernacular and champions the overwhelming movement of diversity and acceptance amongst minority folxs in race, gender, and sexuality.

>>17788480
based schinzo

>>17788449
solid

So this is more EU brexit anger?

>>17788449
>posserent
possent. other than that, perfect. this anon actually knows something

>>17788015
This is literally a dream of mine.
A global Latin revival for scholars, academics and priests everywhere.
One could once again attend mass everywhere on the planet and understand the sermons.
By the way, it's hilarious that the French are still assblasted because of the English dominance over French. If only for this reason I still respect English.

>>17788015
quid putam quaeris? de magnis pulchrrimarum nigrarum culis

>>17788015
It should stay a cloistered thing for autistic academics and monastics like it always was. I wouldn't want it dirtied by normalfag filth.

>>17788538
>mfw when I realize medieval works will be published sooner if this goes through because the university presses won't have to go through an arduous process of assembling a team for translating them for non-Latinate plebs

>>17788516
Shit, I missed that. Thanks.

>>17788038
>wouldnt it be in their interest to make it french?
that's our next step

>>17788596
Imagine a world where any moderately well-read and cultured person reads Horatius, Virgil, Seneca and Cicero in their original language. All the while accesing the most significant medieval theological works easily and cheaply.

>>17788261
It's ultra-patrician in Muttshartistan, like reading in cursive, knowing more than one language and not being a fat nigger.

>>17788637
in other words imagine the west for hundreds of years until the education system shat the bed. don't remind me anon.

>>17788538
English is a language for merchants, hence utterly tied to liberalism and humanism. Latin is too aristocratic for the bourgeois bugmen.

>>17788637
>Horatius, Virgil, Seneca and Cicero

Second-rate boring larpers of more talented Greek precursors.

>>17788808
Virgil especially.

>>17788808
Exactly, which is why you read Ovid

This board has more fucking larpers than /x/.

Latin is genuinely the most sensible language outside of artificially constructed ones. It's clear and concise, there aren't that many exceptions or autistic spellings that plague English and French. In Latin you say what you read and write precisely what you mean. It's a perfect language for scientists. Although I have to admit that I don't speak German and I wouldn't be surprised if German is as good. But I've tried to dive into Spanish after learning Latin and it was an absolute nightmare, nothing in that language makes any sense.

>>17788224
a Romance language speaker absolutely cannot understand Latin without first learning its grammar, which is very different in some ways.

>>17789298
It helps that most of what you read in Latin is in the highly polished literary register. If you read some Petronius for example you'll find lots of stuff that doesn't seem to make much sense at first glance with lots of odd idioms and constructions, reflecting the lower class sort of Latin spoken during the time that you don't get as much exposure to in the grammar books. There's so much of that sort of thing in Petronius that when Renaissance scholars started working through the Satyricon, many assumed at first that it must have been a barbarian forgery because of all the bizarre solecisms. It took them a while to realize they were done of purpose.

>>17788015
The most retarded thing I've read in a while and I had to learn Latin for my degree. Why even propose that?

>>17789313
wrooooonnng, they can understand spoken latin without too much difficulty. you don't really need to understand the cases to see how words fit together in a sentence because it's usually obvious from the words chosen what part they play

Its mostly just a symbolic thing with no practical effects

>>17788038
>alright it seems very few people can read and write in Latin
>it's just too difficult to learn bruh
>Oui oui (!), parlons français.

Based. Latin is language of God.

>>17788058
i honestly believe you. anything actually HAPPENING must have china behind it, goodness knows the west could never organize themselves enough to attempt such a thing

>>17789805
the chinese are the new jews confirmed

>>17788261
the very first book assigned in kindergarten is Tractacus in my country, by highschool they are expected to generate their own language at the same complexity as latin. man people from your country must be retards

>>17788224
Romance speakers don't understand latin, the grammar is a whole different animal.
t. romance native speaker

>>17788330
>Being this butt-hurt that he's too stupid to learn latin
Leave

>>17789825
Chinese are not like Jews despite sharing one or two characteristics. The racism of this board is so unrefined and plebeian.

>>17789828
you don't need to understand everything to understand unough. Plus, you could pick up the main declensions in about an hour of listening to stuff in context. unless you're retarded

>>17789554
>it's usually obvious from the words chosen what part they play
Except it isn't, if you don't know the case endings the meanings of many sentences are totally ambiguous.

>>17790068
give an example that wouldn't be easy to guess

>>17790038
I'd stay it depends which latin we're talking about, late latin such as Vulgata's is much easier to understand than classical latin because the romance structure is already there.

This is easier to make sense of with a minimal knwoledge of latin

>Et die tertia nuptiae factae sunt in Cana Galilaeae, et erat mater Jesu ibi.
2 Vocatus est autem et Jesus, et discipuli ejus, ad nuptias.
3 Et deficiente vino, dicit mater Jesu ad eum: Vinum non habent.
4 Et dicit ei Jesus: Quid mihi et tibi est, mulier? nondum venit hora mea.
5 Dicit mater ejus ministris: Quodcumque dixerit vobis, facite.
6 Erant autem ibi lapideae hydriae sex positae secundum purificationem Judaeorum, capientes singulae metretas binas vel ternas.
7 Dicit eis Jesus: Implete hydrias aqua. Et impleverunt eas usque ad summum.
8 Et dicit eis Jesus: Haurite nunc, et ferte architriclino. Et tulerunt.
9 Ut autem gustavit architriclinus aquam vinum factam, et non sciebat unde esset, ministri autem sciebant, qui hauserant aquam: vocat sponsum architriclinus,
10 et dicit ei: Omnis homo primum bonum vinum ponit et cum inebriati fuerint, tunc id, quod deterius est. Tu autem servasti bonum vinum usque adhuc.

than

I. Quo usque tandem abutere, Catilina, patientia nostra? Quam diu etiam furor iste tuus nos eludet? Quem ad finem sese effrenata iactabit audacia? Nihil ne te nocturnum praesidium Palati, nihil urbis vigiliae, nihil timor populi, nihil concursus bonorum omnium, nihil hic munitissimus habendi senatus locus, nihil horum ora voltusque moverunt? Patere tua consilia non sentis, constrictam iam horum omnium scientia teneri coniurationem tuam non vides? Quid proxima, quid superiore nocte egeris, ubi fueris, quos convocaveris, quid consilii ceperis, quem nostrum ignorare arbitraris?
II
O tempora, o mores! Senatus haec intellegit. Consul videt; hic tamen vivit. Vivit? immo vero etiam in senatum venit, fit publici consilii particeps, notat et designat oculis ad caedem unum quemque nostrum. Nos autem fortes viri satisfacere rei publicae videmur, si istius furorem ac tela vitemus. Ad mortem te, Catilina, duci iussu consulis iam pridem oportebat, in te conferri pestem, quam tu in nos [omnes iam diu] machinaris.

save the catchlines ofc.

>>17790093
Ut quidam morbo aliquo et sensus stupore suavitatem cibi non sentiunt, sic libidinosi, avari, facinerosi verae laudis gustatum non habent

>>17790026
damn straight

>>17789554
I literally speak 3 romance languages, two at native level, and I can't understand Latin for shit

>>17790188
reading is different than hearing in spoken. you can find youtube videos of people doing this, one I can think of is polymathy

>>17790304
>>17790188
Check out Ecolinguist, he has a video where three Romance natives try to understand the spoken Latin of Luke Ranieri

>>17788038
cuz they know no one wants to speak their stupid language

>>17788038
Because if they suggested that then everyone would tell them to fuck off for being narcissistic

>>17790413
>>17790449
French-speaking Europe was peak Europe. It's been downhill since.

>>17788015
It’s a good idea, Latin should be compulsory anyway in school and it’s a good nationally neutral language for Europe, especially now that Britain isn’t even in the EU. English is still the best choice for global language, because any choice would be regional and it’s already established.

>>17790560
>the period that caused the spread of enlightenment humanism and liberalism was peak Europe
France and it’s consequences have been a disaster for the human race

>>17788126
it's nothing more than french being petty fucking losers they always are

>>17790613
England and its consequences have been a disaster for Europe.
>What is called "modern ideas," or "the ideas of the eighteenth century," or "French ideas"—that, consequently, against which the GERMAN mind rose up with profound disgust—is of English origin, there is no doubt about it. The French were only the apes and actors of these ideas, their best soldiers, and likewise, alas! their first and profoundest VICTIMS; for owing to the diabolical Anglomania of "modern ideas," the AME FRANCAIS has in the end become so thin and emaciated, that at present one recalls its sixteenth and seventeenth centuries, its profound, passionate strength, its inventive excellency, almost with disbelief. One must, however, maintain this verdict of historical justice in a determined manner, and defend it against present prejudices and appearances: the European NOBLESSE—of sentiment, taste, and manners, taking the word in every high sense—is the work and invention of FRANCE; the European ignobleness, the plebeianism of modern ideas—is ENGLAND'S work and invention.

>>17790667
So both France and England are to blame? It isn’t exactly hard to blame the two most widely disdained nations in Europe, I don’t think many would be upset.

>>17790732
There's no relevant nations in Europe but France and Britain.

>>17790613
Yeah, the age of Bossuet, de Maistre, Bernier, Thémines, Emery, Chateubriand, Lessing, Thomasius, Diderot, Barbeyrac, Meslier, Rousseau, Morelly, Kant, Fichte, Schelling, Vico, Ridelius, Rothe, Helvetius, Addison, Johnson, Lord Chsterfield, Lord Shaftesbury, Sterne, Blake, Dryden, Pope, de Liguori, Beccaria, Leszcyński, Kołłątaj, was very uncultured compared to our age.

>latin is hard to learn
ah yeah french and english are easier hahaha