/lit/ - Literature

>>17824092
>Not calling it the green pill

>assume anarchist friend and i will disagree on everything
>ask him how anything works post-revolution, how human association occurs and how communities defend themselves
>just sounds like volkisch fascism

>>17824438
What, community coming together?
Fascism is about centralized personality cults.
You even read News from Nowhere?

>>17824092
No and get out.

>>17824092
nigga you just posted on 4chan. you're still in the matrix.

>>17824092
Whoever made that doesn’t have an eye for beauty, and thus doesn’t have an eye for truth. So I will have to pass, anon.

>>17824457
wait, as fascism? or anarchism?

>>17824092
>splitting Technological Slavery and ISAIF

You never even looked at the contents, did you?

>>17825821
Fascism is centralized dictatorship
Is “volkish” “ecofashism” a variety that dispenses with the ethnostate and just wants to shoot at anyone who looks different?

>>17824092
Legible text in a non-AIDS font might help

>>17824092
The elite wants you to fear technology or be pessimistic about it and let it to them, who controlls the technology will control the world. Examples: the cyberpunk comeback, black mirror, eco-anarchoprimitivist movies in Netflix, mr Robot

>>17826475
> just wants to shoot at anyone who looks different?
That's what will happen in any "future primitivist" society. It's one of the most basic human instinct (to be hostile to other tribes/genetic opposition).

>>17824457
>Fascism is about centralized personality cults.
lmao wrong. it's about actualizing virtue in politics, however i realize that upon saying this you are fundamentally incapable of understanding what i mean.

I like the irony of having Zerzan below Ted, considering Zerzan ended their relationship after Ted's critique of AnPrim came out.

>>17828474
Empty headed oaf

>>17828474
>actualizing virtue in politics
Well, what virtues? I understand fascism as an aesthetization of politics, trying to turn the country and it's people into a work of Art (and tearing it to pieces in the process).

>>17828493
No irony. The maker of the chart just doesn’t know much else

>>17828474

>>17828522
ironic butterfly posts this since Jensen hates trannies

>>17828542
Still no irony, since I’m a “terf” apparently

>>17828511
>>17828526
>baseless mockery of the godless
>unaware that they are in fact bugmen pseuds

ah yes, ...

>>17828512
>trying to turn the country and it's people into a work of Art

>(and tearing it to pieces in the process)
was that second bit a mic-drop moment? holy shit you're a little baby, aren't you?

>>17824092
you posted the wrong colour friend

>>17828522
Derrick Jensen is pretty good but very repetitive

>>17828692
This is a blue pill chart. Always has been blue

>>17824092
You're missing Against History, Against Leviathan which needs to be up there. I'm also reading Endgame by Derrick Jensen which is pretty good.

>>17828522
Just saw this. It makes me happy that butters and I have similar taste

Just a little, maybe a crumb of greenpilled literature has been taken and will continue to be taken.

>>17828801
fucking hate this facebook zoomer meme shit, it's not even distinct jokes it's just a shallow argot for zoomers to go "hehe ur in internet culture too? what subset? nice i watch nazbol pewdiepie myself"

real question as someone who has only read like, half an article by Graeber and his wiki page, do any of you think he'd belong on a list like this? not just because of the anti-civ but he seems to talk alot about non-industrial or even hunter-gatherer societies.

>>17828817
there's got to be a way we can make it more obnoxious, don't you think?

>>17828834
scatify

>>17828824
It’s a wise path for humanity to consume less energy, but don’t give up on say making fusion energy a reality, if we can. Don’t throw away all this knowledge and run away into the woods.
An-prim is a very reactionary ideal, and I get from a few things he’s said he’s not at all for that. He wanted the flying cars when he was a kid. There’s a balance I, and Graeber, think is better. Be more ecologically sane, but don’t give up advancing knowledge.

>>17824438
That's because a lot of premodern societies, especially "primitive" one's where, by material conditions, very anarchic.
Im confused by what opinions fascists have about rhis because they simultaneously say "woah epic based pre-modern societies without alienation and muh local village" and also "Grassroot democracy in any form will never work. We need a hypercentralized authority. The centralized fascist state ruled by the dictator must force itself onto everyone."
I guess it depends on what flavor of fascism you're into... But simultaneously it seems fascism usually ends up the same way and does not create some sort of localism but instead dictatorships.

>>17828759
>name fag
opinion discarded

>>17828474
That's The problem, no fascist will ever attempt to defend virtue ethics as opposed to utilitarianism. They always jump the gun and assume "virtue" is good a priori

>>17828565
This comments has like 5 layers of irony

Never read any primitivist literature but how does it solve problems such as medicine or large populations? it seems like a core part of it must be letting a lot of people die of a lot of whom will be innocent

>>17828959
>Doesn’t understand the Matrix
After all these years

>>17828824
He looks evil here

>>17826475
That's what happens when you get all your political information from jreg

>>17829031
Weird take.

>>17829029
Explain it to a brainlet reef momma

>>17828953
Nigger what? Hierarchy and Arche in general have existed since humanity itself
>Muh egalitarian pre-agricultural utopia
Absolutely false, pre-agricultural societies are incredibly clannish and hierarchical, they demarcate along age and sex

>>17828692
Lol

>>17828817
Yeah Ted turning into a meta ironic zoomer meme is probably the exact opposite of what he wanted

>>17829026
The anprim thing is that civilization is inevitably going to collapse anyway so that’s gonna happen regardless afaik

>>17829026
>it seems like a core part of it must be letting a lot of people die of a lot of whom will be innocent
>innocent
We all have a hand in making civilization what it is. No one, not the CEOs or anprims, is innocent. Being born into civilization is our original sin and we all will bear the brunt of it.

>>17829359
well I mean there are a ton of illnesses that're fatal that people would have got regardless of committing the 'original sin' if we go full anprim people will continue to die from diabetes (not the type caused by lifestyle factor) for eternity unless anprim has some incorporation of modern medicine and technology

>>17828759
Namefag fag. Go grobble for attention elsewhere.

>>17829516
>grobble

>>17829429
First off, what will happen if we save these people from their diseases? Will they live forever? Everyone will die at one point or another. Maintaining a destructive civilization that turns everyone into a cog so some people can live a little longer is not a solution.
Second, the natural world is full of medicine. There are a large number of herbs and techniques out there that alleviate and cure illnesses. You don't have to make your life dependent on a giant pharmaceutical company pumping chemicals into you.

>>17830376
so children that get diabetes through no fault of their own should just die because technology is such a great burden? is there any books that address this in more detail?

There is no "go back" button, it just sounds cool to say that you are anarcho-primitivist.

>>17830404
>so children that get diabetes through no fault of their own should just die because technology is such a great burden?
Yes. You are completely ignoring how many lives need to be destroyed, how many countries need to be invaded, and how much destruction is necessary in order for that technology to exist. People will die one way or another. What I am more concerned about is how people will live. Are we going to live in a way connected to the land or be cogs in a machine?
is there any books that address this in more detail?
Yes, Endgame. The author has Crohns disease and is advocating exactly what I am saying

>>17830419
There's no way forward for civilization either.

>>17830465
abolishment of nation states

>>17830465
betting on the end of the world is a sucker's game

>>17830472
I agree but am confused how this won't turn into something related to anprim

>>17830465
Techno capital

>>17830479
I'm not betting on the end of the world, I'm betting on the end of civilization. The world is not civilization. It's what I am trying to get back to.

>>17830465
What are you saying, retard? All changes are beyond our control. Bomb the West and China will come and slave us, and put technology back. You would have to bomb everything simultaniously or wait for collapse. Being primitivist won't change shit even if half of the world believed in it.

>>17830487
You have no understanding how technology works or where it comes from. It is based off limited resources and you need infinite growth to make it work. Eventually diminishing marginal returns takes over and it collapses

>>17830492
cope

I like technology.

>>17830499
>All changes are beyond our control. Bomb the West and China will come and slave us, and put technology back. You would have to bomb everything simultaniously or wait for collapse. Being primitivist won't change shit even if half of the world believed in it.
Where the fuck did I say any of this? Why do you think if I am against civilization I want China to ram their microdicks down my throat? I'm not looking to change the world or to save you. I've got a plot of land and people in town I'm close to. I'm going to hunker down, plant my own food and watch the shit come down. Will even give it a push if I can.

>>17830515
Nice meme word friend

>>17830542
>autistically misrepresent my statement
>complains at meme response

grow up, civilization is not going to "collapse"

>>17830536
Yeah, like a piece of paper stating ownership will make any difference after it collapses hahah. I hope your close friends are truly close tho, always for crisis.

>>17830551
>Yeah, like a piece of paper stating ownership will make any difference after it collapses hahah.
No but my guns will

>>17830505
I’m well aware of your talking points primmie. People have been predicting resource shortages for 100s of years.

>>17830547
You're statement was fucking dumb. You equated the world to civilization. The world has been around 4.8 billion years, civilization a measly 6000. You're statement was already misrepresented.

>>17830557
>people have made wrong prediction before, that means we will never run out of resource

The people whining about civilization are almost all larping. Go fuck off to Africa and get off your computer if you hate technology so much.

>>17830557
I remember in the 90s people said we would run of copper by 2010 or something. copper is currently 26 cents an ounce. imagine some doom prepper fool in the 90s buying pounds of copper to save till now, haha. ok, i just looked at a spot chart, and that is 2x from the 90s, but you could have put your money in amazon or apple stock instead and gotten a 10,000x return, but the key point is there is no shortage of copper even if crackheads do occasionally steal the pipes out of abandoned buildings because crackheads steal anything.

>>17829026
We've set into motion an evolutionary arms race by wiping out diseases on the scale which we have currently done. The global population is still skyrocketing, people are living closer together, we're encroaching on natural spaces and the bacteria and viruses therein, and meanwhile creating superresistant bugs by treating the pathogens we already know. COVID is the free trial, eventually some disease will come and cut our species down to size - if not that, then climate catastrophe. We shouldnt abolish medicine, or intentionally cull the population, but if/when nature catches up to us, it wont be in our power to choose

>>17830597
right. there must be a half dozens areas with failed states that have no centralized government, but by some unfortunate coincidence they all happen to be extremely poor and violent. bummer.

>>17830557
>be in a plane that's in a tailspin
>lol people have been saying that this plane is going to crash for the past two minutes
>it hasn't crashed yet and never will lmao
100 years is a massive exaggeration. At most it's been fifty. Either way, you missing my key point that a 5 year old could figure out; there are limited resources and they are going to get harder and harder to get as time goes own. This will require more investment and energy. The EROI of oil was 100:1 in 1920, it is down to 20:1 now. Eventually diminishing marginal returns takes over and you are spending more energy than you are getting out. This is not sustainable.

>>17830596
Never said we’ll never run out. It won’t be catastrophic collapse though and it’ll be much later than preppers say. Plus it’ll harm the third world way more.

>>17830635
So your argument is basically
>it won't happen to me so fuck everyone else

>>17830601
Wtf are you talking about? Copper is going through an insane shortage right now
https://oilprice.com/Metals/Commodities/Goldman-Sachs-Historic-Copper-Shortage-Loom-As-Prices-Rocket.html

>>17830623
and when that happens alternative energy will become cost efficient. shit bro, as you were early to notice the need to switch to alternative energy you must have made a killing off tesla. i sold too early and only made 10x, still it was a good right. where are you putting your money now? as i'm sure you really have skin in the game and aren't just full of shit of course.

>>17830623
>>17830635
How’s peak oil going? I remember people in the 90s saying we would collapse by now.

>>17830665
you can still buy copper.

Why are all the “anprims” even here? Stop using technology

>>17830670
>alternative energy
What do you think is the back bone of alternative energy? Where do they get the resources? How is it assembled? How do they operate day to day? How are they maintained throughout their lifetimes? What happens at the end of their lifetimes? Are they recycled or do we just start back at the beginning when they are done?
Every single step here requires fossil fuels>>17830670

>>17830690
your argument is that we will run out of oil not that coal is causing beach front properties to flood occasionally, that is a different issue

>>17830673
Do you not understand EROI? The US only made it through the past 10 years because of Shale oil, but that is quickly coming to a halt. Coventional oil (which peaked in 2005) depletes wells at 2-3% each year, Shale oil depletes its well at 60-70%. It requires a very high and constant investment of new wells. All major plays outside the Permian are in terminal decline.

>>17830690
uh oh, i guess we'll just have to use nuclear. this problem has been solved for like 70 years, but fossil fuel lobby successfully used wacko hippies to stop us from switching, but we can always switch later.

>>17830701
I have at no point argued about global warming. It's all about resource consumption to me.

If yall posting fash recs at least make it interesting. Where’s schizo devi?

>>17824092
>green anarchism
horrid
>deep ecology
wonderful

>>17830731
pilled as they say

>>17830719
>civilization is about to collapse
>well we better spend the next 10 years constructing a bunch of nuclear bombs on our land
For what it's worth, if we did heavily invest in nuclear energy decades ago, things may have a better outlook.

>>17830731
>>17830745
slut

>>17830749
>actually believes civilization is about to collapse
all i say is "lol"

>>17830731
>>17830745
>>17830756

>>17830731
>>17830745
>>17830756
>>17830765

>>17830731
>>17830745
>>17830756
>>17830765
>>17830769
the magnum opus

>>17830777
I got John Seymour's book.

>>17830731
>Bookchin
>Evola
Go back

>>17830790
cant handle it?

>>17830688
Make me faggot

>>17830821
K keep larping faggot

>>17830738
>something is both horrid and wonderful
Okay.

>>17830447
Thanks I don't really have a position on this but since anprim is rising I want to be a bit more well read on it, thanks for the response

>>17830870
The whole point of deep ecology is it's a worldview and not an ideology, or have you never read naess?

Anprim is cringe. Nobody is gonna adopt anarchism after collapse. They’ll flock to the first strongman who can protect them, no matter how authoritarian.

>>17824092
I think national primitivism is better

>>17831054
Sadly I agree with the second part. After the collapse people will immediately try to figure out how they can get their old lives back which caused the collapse in the first place

>>17831054
This is why we organize.

>>17831410
Can you give me a quick rundown on this book butterfly?

>>17831549
Anthropologist Graeber takes part in several actions with his tribe. Their origins, how they operate, their temperaments etc. It’s really in depth and full of keen observations.
I t shows how well direct democracy can work. This group however are wasting their time and energy on protesting instead of establishing the alternatives to the status quo. After OWS (the book doesn’t cover it) they seemed to have melted away again.
I post it with the other two to accent the need for a next step. They need to think bigger now.

>>17828692
>Maybe if I sandwhich my library of indignant schlock between the classics of history people will think they’re related!
>Then when my fellow idiots fail to read any of the classics, they’ll jump to my neo-fascist drivel!
>Then I’ll have some friends to larp with!

>>17824092
>anarchist
>submitting to the authority of nature

>>17831899
Nature is anarchy though

>>17831899
Anarchism is a challenge to all unjustifiable hierarchies. No no hierarchies.

>>17832990
nature is literally hierarchical

>>17833043
Emperor penguins aren’t really ruling emprires

>>17828692
Unspeakably cringe

>>17830955
Anarchism is a worldview.
It infuriates people that it wants a social revolution and not a simple political one.

>>17831899
nature doesnt have authority, it is an absolute that you can either deny or accept.

>>17833038
Which hierarchies are (or might be) justifiable in your opinion?

>>17833374
We can whittle it down to parent/child, teacher/student, expert/novice.

>>17833043
It literally isn't

>>17824397
Greenpill is a term used for shit like Hermeticism and Gnosticism

>>17833710
husband/wife

>>17824092
Are there any books that criticize Industrial Society and its Future?

>>17835137
no for it is irrefutable

>>17831054
Anarchism is anything goes; the non-sense that is spewed by ancoms is a result of their communistic morality and decadence. Anarchism is to be actively destructive and nihilistic.

>>17835137
yes, anti-tech revolution by ted kaczynski

>>17833775
In a war zone, women might need a strong man as a utility, but are they sane enough to help raise the sons while she gets a nap in? Nah. Don’t be so hard on yourself. Males and women should be equals and play off of each others strengths.

>>17835894
As long as guns are around, it makes sense having men and women fighting together. If there are no guns and the population is getting low, men are expendable and women aren't.

>>17835950
...you make a case for my book (idea+notes)

Why greenarchism the redpill? You can do like Ted and just live in the woods, nobody is stopping you.

>>17836019
Civilization will just encroach more and more. People have tried exactly what you are saying since Civilization began, it doesn't work in the long run.

>>17836041
Sure, it will to *some* extent, but if the Amish manage to live without cars, cellphones, health insurance and Social Security, so can you.

>>17836059
Amish have health insurance and social security numbers and occasionally contact English people they know for car rides to town.

>>17836078
Well it depends on what group of Amish. The most conservative of them don't have health insurance, and they won a Supreme Court case in order to be allowed to not pay into Social Security because of their religious beliefs.

>>17836019
That wasn't tedk's solution to the problem though

>>17828959

>Use Lord of the Rings to redefine your lifestyle and plan your future

Nerd conventions already exist, Anon

>>17836104
They’re intricately linked to the modern world. The US allows them, like a privileged classification of Native American.
The only way to achieve this simplified world is to pull the linchpin of capitalism out of the encroaching state

>>17836186
Yeah but nobody is completely delinked from the modern world, because they live in it.

The question is whether it's possible to live as a primitivist yourself without you needing to change the world to fit your image, and I submit that it is, it just requires more work than anyone in this thread are willing to accept.

Are surrogate activities things to be avoided or is it enough to merely recognize them for what they are?

What's a primitivism exactly? Living in hunter gatherer groups? Living in a farmer's village? Living as a pastoralist and raising cow and horses (i know this one is popular with the lads)?

>>17836232
Anon let's say you wanted to live a simple life in the woods. You don't have any money, but you know how to survive on your own and get a small piece of land and survive off the land. Now let's say another person sees all the trees there and wants to log them. He presents his business case to a bank and they give him a loan to cut trees because they know he will turn a profit on that. All those resources you were using to live are gone now.

>>17836299
In other words, you literally want to destroy modernity because it might not allow you to live like a hunter-gatherer on public property or on other people's private property.

Well tough shit. I have a hard time feeling sympathy for this position, make some money and buy your own land and life off it instead.

>>17830597
Africa has technology virtually everywhere. Most people have a smartphone you imbecile. I'm not anprim, I think it's retarded, but outside of the literal Amazon and areas of Siberia, a 'non-technological' world does not exist.

>>17836334
It's an example anon. Multiply a thousand times over, apply it to over fishing, pollution, and the industrial agriculture business. Once you do that you'll find that civilization is destroying every way that you can escape it, preventing you access to clean water and the biodiversity necessary to get your food from the woods.
Additionally, you completely ignore the point I am making in my example. Anyone looking to preserve the natural environment will be out bid by a person looking to exploit it. Saving trees is no where near as profitable as cutting them down.
I have every right to fight for this preservation. Civilization does not have any right to poison my water and air.

>>17836426
>Once you do that you'll find that civilization is destroying every way that you can escape it

But it doesn't though, you're just projecting this onto it. There's plenty of places that are so remote as to barely register as civilization, such as where my brother lives here in Norway. Up until 3 months ago, he didn't even have internet access.

>>17836186
Not sure if you're fake or real butterfly, but either way you're pretty based and probably one of the more well read people on this piece of shit website full of pseuds. Always appreciate your posts.

>>17836334
>Try to live a h&g lifestyle
>Nestlé steals all your water
>Bolsoñaro cuts down every tree in a 150 mile radius
>Bayer pumps all your rivers full of antibiotics and estrogen
>Monzanto kills all your local Fauna with pesticides and herbicides
>Just exit capitalism bro it's not hard

The game really was rigged from the start

>>17836450
Norway is a rich country you imbecile, that's why you can afford to protect your nature. Try asking Amazonians how they like what's leftover of their rainforest. Or virtually any other poor nation raped by multinationals.

>>17828608
Literally good by"butterfly"

I'm not sure why it always comes down to hunter-gatherer. If you're huwite your ancestors gave that up 7-10k years ago. Wheels and dairy are good.

>>17836450
>bro just live in the most inhospitable places on earth lmao
>lol what do you mean that a Chinese mining company found a deposit of rare earth metals near your property and will start destroying land and putting all the poisonous run off in your water.

>>17824457
>Fascism is about centralized personality cults.
is as libelous as saying
>communism is about making everyone the same
you tard

>>17828817

I, too, have fallen behind.

>>17835156
>>17835575
no meme answers please

>>17836687
It really goes to show how serious the ideology is when all its adherents use are low-hanging fruit examples and freak occurences of eminent domain.

Nobody gives a shit about your 10 acre forest in Ohio retard, least of all the Chinese.

>>17836234
Ted says they shouldn't be avoided. It's somewhere on TS.

Reminder, it is a slave's mentality to want to live in civilization

>>17833747
It shouldn't be, that's stupid.

>>17825819
I'm almost 100% sure that anyone with this opinion is oh-so-truthfully butt ugly that it hurts. Ugly is beauty, art more faggot

>>17837717
>Ugly is beauty
Your "education" has ruined your brain.

>>17828959
>Ghost in the Shell
>Lord of the Rings