/lit/ - Literature

>>17916811
men

>>17916811
The way you define evil is surely different from the way an all-knowing being would define evil.

>>17916841
Enlighten me: what do the all-knowing define as evil?

>>17916811
>believing in objective evil
Do the unenlightened really?

>>17916811
When Eve picked the fruit of forbidden knowledge, thats when evil entered the world? Did you even fucking read the book? Its in the first bloody chapter you nit.

The other gods

>>17916841
if my good and evil don't correspond to god's good and evil, morality kind of goes out the window, don't you think?

>>17916855
>monistcuck right on cue
do you guys still wear pagers?

>>17916811
>If God is good and all-powerful, where does evil come from?
You are the operant power and everyone is you pushed out.

>>17916811
isaiah 45:7 KJV, read the bible kid

>>17916811
If there is no God, something being evil is illogical. Things just die, matter changes it’s forms but it is no more evil for atoms to be part of what makes up a wounded animal or dirt and earth. In order to even ask the question, “How can there be evil?” You have to make big assumptions. Do you see this?

>>17916881
intriguing. go on. I've had a similar intuition.

>>17916811
Ignorance, which in turn comes from not knowing god.

>>17916882
Matthew 7:17-19

After you

>>17916863
Whatever you say...

>>17916848
How would I know? Do I look like an all-conscious entity to you?

>>17916875
Of course not. Our individual morality doesn't precisely line up with God's morality, but this doesn't mean our morality is inconsequential to his.
God's morality is composed of the individual morality of the collective man and nature.

>>17916909
>God's morality is composed of the individual morality of the collective man and nature.
So the sum of individual morality differs in kind from individual morality itself, since my idea of evil can't possibly correspond to God's, gotcha.

>>17916909
I see, so you actually don't know if an All-knowing being would define evil differently from how I define it?

>>17916909
>collective
Oh, ho, ho! Morality is the whim of the mob? Flexible, whimsical, and greedy?

>>17916811
>atrocity on an innocent could be sanctioned on a transgressors against a child
‘Good’ in word-thinking here supersedes antimonies

>>17916811
freedom

>>17916909
>>17916841
Another question: would an all-knowing entity and an evil-knowing entity be able to define evil?

>>17916811
God created evil for the luls

>>17916944
We agree God is free and intrinsically good, yes? What prevents him from making humans the same way?

>>17916944
What freedom? Humans act according to processes which could very well be reduced to a science, there is nothing free about that.

>>17917009
>could
>science
King of midwits

>>17917012
I do not know anything more midwit than believing in free will.

>>17916811
>where does evil come from?

The dictionary.

evil
adjective
UK

/ˈiː.vəl/US
/ˈiː.vəl/

morallybad,cruel, or veryunpleasant:

an evildictator
Thesepeopleare just evil.

>>17916811
>believing humans have the ability to discern the motives of the gods

>>17917161
>Thought-terminating cliche

>>17916811
Everything comes from God but God didn’t assign good and evil to things. We do that. Source: Spinoza.

>>17916811
God does not hate satan, but satan certainly hates God

>>17916811
God as well

>>17916811
Evil comes from mortals. Iblis transgressed against Allah by refusing to obey Him and worship his ego. Allah allows the temptations of Iblis to permeate throughout human behavior to test our ability to tame our ego and submit to Allah

>>17916811
yakub

>>17916811
Either from Satan, or to be more accurate men acting upon the temptatioms of Satan, or from what can be qualified as the spirit of Fallen Nature.
God is omnibenevolent in ways we as mortal creatures cannot understand, let alone interpret coherently save for the occasional prophet like Hermes Trismestigus, the words of Jesus, or the rare revelation, and thus we cannot say why prayers go unanswered or why there is no, overt, intervention in the suffering of man from a divine source, the examples above aside it is a matter of faith.
Man must suffer temptation and the loosened arrows of physical lile regardless while striving towards the good, and as Spengler has said, he must be the Legionnaire who died at Pompei solely because he was not relieved.

>>17916811
The agential source of Evil is the Demiourgos, Ialdabaoth; the root of Evil is the Dark, which is essentially, and principally, different, and distinct, from Good, the root of which is God.

The distortive perversion of Good into Evil is one of deflective mixture of the Light with the Dark, not one of absence of the Light, which merely constitutes nullity; this mixing, in turn, ontologically fosters ignobility, which constitutes the absence of nobility.

>>17916811
The agential source of Evil is the Demiourgos, Ialdabaoth; the root of Evil is the Dark, which is essentially, and principally, different, and distinct, from Good, the root of which is God.

The distortive perversion of Good into Evil is one of deflective mixing of the Light with the Dark, not one of absence of the Light, which merely constitutes nullity; this mixing, in turn, ontologically fosters ignobility, which constitutes the absence of nobility.

>>17916811
Free will.

>>17917386
Refuted

>>17917187
>Thought-terminating cliche
And?

>>17917455
Declaring in advance that you simply cannot comprehend something is not conducive to a productive discussion. Might as well stare at a wall all day.

>>17916811
ritual sacrifices/canibalism are based

>>17917482
Not that anon, but the whole inability to understand God thing is a matter that doesnt stem from philosophical discussion, but from ecstasis or mystical/religious experience. Attempting to interact with God or the divine sphere in such a way yields the return of standing before infinite and unknowable to man.

>>17916841
Wrong.

>>17917161
God said they do. Checkmate dumb cunt.

>>17917532
It is not altogethor clear to me how god is unknowable to man.

>>17916811
evil is just the stuff that you don't like, what makes you special to god?
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=fY8dENdB620

>>17917602
Forgive me for a cliche, but, at least from personal experience, its not something easily described or conveyed in words. It must be engaged with through prayer and recieved as, well, something actively experienced.
It feels like something electric running up your spine and out of your skull until everything in the room feels far away and that you feel like rising. If it goes long enough, you can sense something immense and burning brush up against you.
Church has never brought it about for me, only meditative prayer to God. It can be simple to try and exactly what it sounds like, a matter of clearing your mind and speaking to God what comes in the ensuing silence.

Ur mum's vagoo

>>17916811
free will is the answer to the problem of evil.

>>17916816
fpbp and /thread

>>17916811
evil is a failure to attain a good. all beings are created, and being created, are good. and so it is also true that evil may come from good. what a silly question OP.

>>17917707
Too bad that all will is determined by previous factors.

>>17917733
free will is subject to any number of influences. however, we still have some degree of agency, and the Supreme Being respects our freedom and will not interfere.

>>17917707
doesn't account for natural evil, or why god can't create free beings that are intrinsically good (seeing as he is one himself)

>>17917727
just because the devil's existence is good for him, doesn't mean it is good for others.

>>17917602
Simple.
Either god is good and what is written in religious is correct
OR
God is evil and everything written about him/it is wrong which means we know nothing of god and probably never will.

>>17917776
Religious texts*

>>17917764
i wasn't talking about the devil. read Aquinas.

>>17917764
>natural evil
this is a meme. the universe is an amoral place.

>why god can't create free beings that are intrinsically good (seeing as he is one himself)
if he shaped our character so that we would only make certain choices, this would arguably be a violation of free will. our character is such that we have the potential to be either good or evil, which maximizes freedom. being fair, the Supreme Being gave us an intrinsic sense of good and evil, so that we're accountable and can't plead ignorance.

>>17917754
The equation of freedom with mere 'permission' is perhaps the worst consequence of American Education.

>>17917790
and i'm not talking about fucking privation. you born-again 4shitters make me retch. yes fag we've all read the confessions.

>>17917796
I used the word loosely, there are various definitions to the word 'freedom'. some would say that anyone who's not spiritually enlightened is still in bondage.

>>17917794
evil is that which causes suffering. the universe is a place filled with suffering as a matter of course (nutrition), ergo the universe is an immoral place.

your second point is bullshit because you're asking me to believe a god whose freedom coincides with the good is somehow less free than a finite creature tempted to do evil. you haven't successfully argued why the capacity to do evil is a "maximization" of freedom in an intuitive way.

besides, we all know people with naturally good characters, what happened there? did God impose a constraint on their freedom? study harder

>>17917776
Amateur. I can do that too.

>God is All-knowing
>All the things he knows are intelligible
Three cases may follow:
>God knows God
>God is therefore intelligible
>mankind is (presumably) intelligent
>therefore, mankind has the ability to know God, and his goodness or evil bear no relevance.
OR
>God does not know God
>God is not intelligible
>therefore, God is not All-knowing
OR
>God does not know God
>Yet we wish to maintain that God is still All-knowing
>All the things he knows are things
>God is not a thing
>There is no God

>>17917826
>evil is that which causes suffering. the universe is a place filled with suffering as a matter of course (nutrition), ergo the universe is an immoral place.
suffering is common, but this isn't a hell realm. not every aspect of life is suffering. the universe is fined-tuned to permit complex, intelligent life, but otherwise it's unconcerned with us.

>your second point is bullshit because you're asking me to believe a god whose freedom coincides with the good is somehow less free than a finite creature tempted to do evil. you haven't successfully argued why the capacity to do evil is a "maximization" of freedom in an intuitive way.
let's put this way, evil is that which is contrary to the Supreme Being and its ethics. it doesn't have to choose good, because it simply is. as mortals, we have the choice to act in accordance with the higher power, or rebel against it. if he forced us to obey, that obedience wouldn't mean much. choice makes our actions meaningful.

>besides, we all know people with naturally good characters, what happened there? did God impose a constraint on their freedom? study harder
their natural character is the culmination of choices that shape who they are. the same is true of people we consider irredeemable.

>>17916811
Evil means going against god

>>17917907
So genocide isn’t evil? God commands quite a bit of those in the Bible

>>17916811
My dick.

>>17917875
Exactly.
God is unknowable.

>>17917912
"You shall not kill"

>>17917935
>let's make morality impossible to ground so we don't have to admit evil exists
lol. unreal.

>>17917907
According to who?

>>17917946
But evil does exist whicheans god exists for he is everything.

>>17917935
For your information, when you say that, you are effectively denying god according to the argument.

>>17917944
So Moses and Yoshua didn’t kill when the Canaanites died at their hands, something that was approved by God himself?

>>17917912
>>17917972
this assumes YHWH really is the Supreme Being, and not the Demiurge or something else.

>>17917980
The thread is about god, specifically abrahamic god, not gnosticism.

>>17917966
No. I'm denying every religious institutions portrayal of god.

>>17917993
Because they assert that he is All-knowing, when in fact he does not know even himself, according to the argument.

>>17918012
Yes and no.
God knows itself yet chooses to hide that truth from us.

Canada, apparently. Do your part, for God and country.

>>17918030
And he does so by depriving mankind of their intelligence, thereby rendering them unable to understand intelligible things. Am I right?

>>17918047
No. That sounds retarded.
As one among many reasons, id say he renders the intelligent blind by hiding truths from them, not rendering them unintelligible.

>>17918066
If an intelligent being is unable to perceive the truth, then in what regard is he intelligent.

>>17918066
If an intelligent being is unable to perceive the truth, then in what regard is he intelligent?

>>17916816
and who created men?

>I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things. (Isaiah 45:7)

>>17918129
/thread, again

>>17918122
Define intelligence.
A common crow is intelligent yet cannot understand how a jet engine works.

>>17916811
Evil is an aspect of the Absolute, which can necessarily have no parts as it is wholly simple

>>17918265
We shall use the common definition of intelligence, the ability to perceive information. And as for your common crow, he can hardly be called intelligent if he cannot understand how a jet engine works.

God, the First Cause, is the Creator-Destroyer, she is the origin of all that humans call good and evil.

>>17916841
How do you know? Have you ever talked to him?

>>17916811
By distance. By our tendency to place things in front of the Godhead that cloud him from our access. Once we have an idea of what is good and place it in front of the Godhead, we inevitably bring forth the possibility of it's negation aka evil. The only way of getting rid of evil is thus to go beyond both good and evil, and in that act become one with God.

>>17916816
What about predators in the wild and climatic catastrophes?

>>17916816
Kys femoid.
It's women who ruined everything. Those parasites suck off the resources from men which they had earned with hard labour. U femoids do this to make sure ur genes survive at the expense of the genes of 50% of the male population.
U'll truly burn in hell bitch,like the crooked women who latched on to an onion as a last resort to escape from the Dostoevsky novel.

imagine being this stupid.
you are literally 1500 years BEHIND the Catholic Church.

>>17918790
>It's women who ruined everything
When did Mary the Mother of Jesus ruin anything?

>>17918794
Chruchcuck cope
Move to a desert and contemplate on death in bone dry silence if you want to be near God.

>>17918811
Like the coptics?

>>17918799
Look at the bitch named Eve.
Mary is more of a personification for the ideal woman and Eve was the personification of Ur typical femoid who steals resources from u and cheats u for another man to ensure her genes are always preserved and linked to high quality genes(using ugly men as beta bucks provider while simultaneously cheating them for a Chad's sperm )

>>17916811
>if
But those are some pretty big assumptions there fella, mind explaining?

>>17916811
the better question would be, why can't you just not be evil? don't cop out and blame the allmighty

>>17916811
From your dick, quick cut it and ending with the evil.

>>17916811
God but not directly

Bataille said evil is communication. Good is the intact, whole, self-serving being (discontinuous) while evil is the disrupted, open being (continuous). Communication is only possible via a disruption from the other/outside or putting at risk one's intactness.

>>17917651
The fire snake rises! Keep going until you reach the center of the universe.

>>17917602
Such hubris has a tendency to be punished.

>>17916907
>gnosticposting
>in 2015+6
do /lit/anons really?

>>17916811
If God controls the land and the seas
And keeps a watchful eye on me
If he's really so damn mighty
Well, my problem is I can't see
Well, who would wanna be
Who would wanna be such a control freak?